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  #1  
Old Feb 6th, 10, 7:35 PM
bart0510 bart0510 is offline
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Default Need some input on torque monster 454

This will go in my 71 Chevelle with TKO600 and 12 bolt with 3.42 gears and an Auburn posi. This will be a street car, might go to the track once or twice a year. Looking to get big torque numbers down low thru midrange.
Looking for 400hp/450tq range motor(is this realistic?)

Looking for suggestions on what I need also feel free to let me know if I need to change anything I already have. I have always built small blocks and this is my first big block build so your help is greatly appreciated.

What I have:
1990 truck 454 casting # 10069286 4 bolt stock bore will be bored .030 over
stock crank
stock rods
flat top hypers
oval closed chamber heads casting #3904290 101cc 2.06I/1.72E
Demon 750 vac secondary
Performer RPM intake
comp headers 2" primaries 3.5 collector
3" exhaust with x pipe and dual flowmaster 40s

What I need I need help with:
camshaft? Looking at lunati 60202lk 1400-5700rpm range lift 530I/542E duration at .050 219/217 112 LSA, any other cam suggestions are welcome. Prefer hyd flat tappet based on budget, too much other stuff needs done.
are headers to big?
carb big enough?
any idea on compression ratio and if I would have to run high octane fuel?

I know lots of questions, Thanks for your input.
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Last edited by bart0510; Feb 6th, 10 at 8:22 PM.
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  #2  
Old Feb 6th, 10, 8:50 PM
creeper72 creeper72 is offline
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Default Re: Need some input on torque monster 454

Looks pretty good to me. Headers don't need to be that big , but you got em already.
Carb should be fine, pump gas I would atleast run 89.
I would prob step up to the next cam for what I like. 60203
Hopefully you will get some more opinions on cam choice.
Good luck with it.
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  #3  
Old Feb 7th, 10, 1:11 AM
BillyGman BillyGman is offline
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Default Re: Need some input on torque monster 454

Quote:
Originally Posted by bart0510 View Post
This will go in my 71 Chevelle with TKO600 and 12 bolt with 3.42 gears and an Auburn posi. This will be a street car, might go to the track once or twice a year. Looking to get big torque numbers down low thru midrange.
Looking for 400hp/450tq range motor(is this realistic?)

Looking for suggestions on what I need also feel free to let me know if I need to change anything I already have. I have always built small blocks and this is my first big block build so your help is greatly appreciated.

What I have:
1990 truck 454 casting # 10069286 4 bolt stock bore will be bored .030 over
stock crank
stock rods
flat top hypers
oval closed chamber heads casting #3904290 101cc 2.06I/1.72E
Demon 750 vac secondary
Performer RPM intake
comp headers 2" primaries 3.5 collector
3" exhaust with x pipe and dual flowmaster 40s

What I need I need help with:
camshaft? Looking at lunati 60202lk 1400-5700rpm range lift 530I/542E duration at .050 219/217 112 LSA, any other cam suggestions are welcome. Prefer hyd flat tappet based on budget, too much other stuff needs done.
are headers to big?
carb big enough?
any idea on compression ratio and if I would have to run high octane fuel?

I know lots of questions, Thanks for your input.
I don't think you should have any problems making that torque number goal or even more with a 454 cid engine. The cam isn't what I would call a "bad" choice. But I think I'd use the next step up (the 60203 ).The only real bad thing about that combo will be those headers. Yes, those headers are waaaaay too big. They're gonna counteract exactly what it is you're trying to accomplish ( low end and midrange torque ). You're going to take a sizeable hit on the torque level below 3,000 RPM using those big 2" primary tubes. The power delivery is gonna be a lot more soggy down low than it should be with a street driven big block car. With those headers on that combo, you might as well stay with a mild small block, because that's what it's gonna feel like. You'll be negating the low end torque benefits of having a big block under the hood with them. The headers you have are a big mismatch with the cylinder heads and cam you'll have. Not good. Think before you make your next move.

The 3" exhaust is fine though. You'll need 1 3/4" primary tube diameter headers (preferably with 3" diameter collectors).
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  #4  
Old Feb 7th, 10, 1:51 AM
Twins Fan Twins Fan is offline
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Default Re: Need some input on torque monster 454

I agree that you will meet the power numbers and should exceed them easily.

I also agree about the headers being too big. Sell them, or keep em for later maybe, but get some of the $90 Summit headers. They have 1 3/4 primaries and 3 inch collectors. The carb you have should be fine.

You should have roughly 9 to 1 compression with the flat tops and closed chamber heads. It may run on regular, but you may have to use mid-grade. With the decent compression and the manual transmission, you can run a little bigger cam. The one you have picked out may not even rev to 5000. You want to have more fun than that don't you? I would look at something closer to the 230 at .050 range. The 60203 would be a good pick too.

Sounds like a good combo though.
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  #5  
Old Feb 7th, 10, 2:05 AM
crazydavey crazydavey is offline
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Default Re: Need some input on torque monster 454

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twins Fan View Post
I agree that you will meet the power numbers and should exceed them easily.

I also agree about the headers being too big. Sell them, or keep em for later maybe, but get some of the $90 Summit headers. They have 1 3/4 primaries and 3 inch collectors. The carb you have should be fine.

You should have roughly 9 to 1 compression with the flat tops and closed chamber heads. It may run on regular, but you may have to use mid-grade. With the decent compression and the manual transmission, you can run a little bigger cam. The one you have picked out may not even rev to 5000. You want to have more fun than that don't you? I would look at something closer to the 230 at .050 range. The 60203 would be a good pick too.

Sounds like a good combo though.
Agree with Brad and others about the headers and cam. A stock LS5 is rated at 500 ft. lbs so you should be right there. With those changes I would also consider a mechanical secondary carb with a stick...more instant gratification..
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  #6  
Old Feb 7th, 10, 2:13 AM
BillyGman BillyGman is offline
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Default Re: Need some input on torque monster 454

Yeah, if you go with the bigger of the two cams discussed here so far, then you might need a bigger carb than the one you've listed, but I'm not positive about that. Just a mere guess on my part, and I'm also merely going by what it mentioned in the general guidelines on the Lunati webpage about that cam.
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  #7  
Old Feb 7th, 10, 2:52 AM
kettbo kettbo is online now
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Default Re: Need some input on torque monster 454

I have 8.8:1 with a 1978 dished-piston shortblock and 1968 #063 101cc oval port heads.
I run the 3.42 gears and a 3000 stall converter. Cam is 226*, shift at 5100 rpms for best times, 230* would be better...get the engineup to the safe limit for the cast pistons. 12.7s is not too shabby. not the 500 ft lbs 'rated power' of the 1970 cars but honest to Dod flatten you eyeballs launch, 1.70 60' without too much effort.

Replace the 2" pipes with 1 7/8" primary tube headers.
Next cam will be a 230*/.540"/109LSA unit...easy 12.5s.
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o 70 Elky 496 build coming damn soon!
$2000 454 is broken, ran well for a 3995# all-up wt.
1.631 11.727 113.37 91.47 midtrack 1.647 11.729 113.49 91.58 mph mid track
Bests 1.620 60 ft 91.60 best mph


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Old Feb 7th, 10, 2:58 AM
BillyGman BillyGman is offline
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Default Re: Need some input on torque monster 454

Quote:
Originally Posted by kettbo View Post
12.7s is not too shabby. not the 500 ft lbs 'rated power' of the 1970 cars but honest to Dod flatten you eyeballs launch, 1.70 60' without too much effort. Yeah, but with some good drag radial tires in back ofcourse. Not doin that with the typical crappy Dunlop radial T/A tires.

Replace the 2" pipes with 1 7/8" primary tube headers.
.
If it were me, I'd use the 1 3/4" primary tubes. that's really all he needs for that combo. And going from 2" to 1 7/8" won't even be a big enough difference to make the labor and expense of changing the headers worth it IMO.
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  #9  
Old Feb 7th, 10, 8:14 AM
gnunzio gnunzio is offline
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Default Re: Need some input on torque monster 454

I sent you a PM regarding the 60203 custom ground on a 112 LSA. let me know if interested!
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  #10  
Old Feb 7th, 10, 8:30 AM
69-CHVL 69-CHVL is offline
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Default Re: Need some input on torque monster 454

I ran a 454HO 425HP/500ftlbs with a M20 and 3.31's. Best run was a 2.0/13.1/107.5, anykind of traction would of gotten a solid 12sec run with room to spare. This was with BFG radial T/A's though. You should do better with the deeper rear gear and deeper 1st gear of the TKO.

If the budget allows, you can get a ZZ502 roller cam for like 160.00 new on a steel core. Its 224/234 .527/.544 110lsa, and the timing set for 40.00 which will allow this cam to be installed in the MKIV blocks, and elimates the need for a cam button. Just need the melonized distrib gear. So for around 230.00, you have a roller cam and timing set that should give you around 25-30 more hp/ftlbs, and eliminate and chances of losing a lobe on that flat tappet. Morel and others now have affordable roller lifters in the 350.00 range. This will be the cheapest HP you will buy, and I see around 450hp, 500ftlbs+.

PS - what OD ratio are you running, the .64 or .82?
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Last edited by 69-CHVL; Feb 7th, 10 at 8:52 AM.
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  #11  
Old Feb 7th, 10, 12:23 PM
kettbo kettbo is online now
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Default Re: Need some input on torque monster 454

Quote:
Originally Posted by kettbo View Post
I have 8.8:1 with a 1978 dished-piston shortblock and 1968 #063 101cc oval port heads.
I run the 3.42 gears and a 3000 stall converter. Cam is 226*, shift at 5100 rpms for best times, 230* would be better...get the engineup to the safe limit for the cast pistons. 12.7s is not too shabby. not the 500 ft lbs 'rated power' of the 1970 cars but flatten you eyeballs launch, 1.70 60' without too much effort. edit shocks, air bag,and certainly Drag Radials...

Replace the 2" pipes with 1 7/8" primary tube headers. edit 1 3/4" primaries Next cam will be a 230*/.540"/109LSA unit...easy 12.5s.
Should be more awake when I post
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George Kettler
o 70 Elky 496 build coming damn soon!
$2000 454 is broken, ran well for a 3995# all-up wt.
1.631 11.727 113.37 91.47 midtrack 1.647 11.729 113.49 91.58 mph mid track
Bests 1.620 60 ft 91.60 best mph


o 68 Vette 427/M-20/3.36 22 year owner
http://public.fotki.com/kettbo/gearhead/
o 68 Camaro Vert 327 project, painted, assembly stage http://www.camaros.net/forums/showth...183654&page=55
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  #12  
Old Feb 7th, 10, 12:34 PM
gnicholson gnicholson is offline
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Default Re: Need some input on torque monster 454

if you want torque and good power to 5000 rpm i would run a single pattern cam on 108 lsa installed at 104 and around 230 @.050
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  #13  
Old Feb 7th, 10, 2:12 PM
454regal 454regal is offline
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Default Re: Need some input on torque monster 454

I think your combo is going to be fine the way it is you will have plenty of torque all over the place.Dial in your timing and tune your combo.Only thing i think you should do is step down the 3 inch duals to some 2 2/1 duals.I have run 12.3@111 with a 1.77 60ft.With a 8.1 comp 454 218/228 cam 114lsa 2inch primary headers,2.5 duals bullet mufflers,3310 vs carb.3.42 gears 2400 stall.
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Old Feb 7th, 10, 5:41 PM
BillyGman BillyGman is offline
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Default Re: Need some input on torque monster 454

Quote:
Originally Posted by 454regal View Post
I think your combo is going to be fine the way it is you will have plenty of torque all over the place.Dial in your timing and tune your combo.Only thing i think you should do is step down the 3 inch duals to some 2 2/1 duals.I have run 12.3@111 with a 1.77 60ft.With a 8.1 comp 454 218/228 cam 114lsa 2inch primary headers,2.5 duals bullet mufflers,3310 vs carb.3.42 gears 2400 stall.
Hmmm, so you're running a header primary tube diameter that's almost as big as your muffler pipe diameters are (only a 1/2" smaller)???? And that's really what you attribute your successful ET's to? I dunno. I'd have to question that myself. What I cannot question are your ET numbers. 12.3 seconds is pretty good for a mild cam like you have, along with the mild gear ratio and mild stall speed too. I bet you would run better ET's with 1 3/4" primary tubes. But just to be clear, I believe that the original poster is asking about a street car application anyway. Not a race car application.

But just so we know the whole picture, what's the curb weight of your vehicle? Do you have a full interior? All steel body?
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Old Feb 7th, 10, 5:57 PM
454regal 454regal is offline
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Default Re: Need some input on torque monster 454

I was told that the larger 3 inch pipes push the torque up higher in the rpm band.Dont think its the attributing to my ets just given him a my setup and what it actually runs.I run a 87 regal (gn clone).Some weight reduction curb wieght is unknown,but its a all iron bbc minus the performer rpm intake,I choose the larger headers because of the nitrous.On motor best et was 12.3@111 my best mph was 112.5 with more timing.On a 100 shot it ran a 11.7@121mph.I agree that it may et faster with the smaller headers but there are no 1 3/4 headers for a g-body with a bbc,which is another reason why i went the larger headers.
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