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  #1  
Old Dec 8th, 09, 7:28 PM
hotrodrobert hotrodrobert is offline
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Default A quart of oil per hundred miles

Hello guys,
I have a terrible problem that I can't seem to figure out. I have a 383 with an oil use problem- about a quart per hundred miles. Engine has about 2k miles since build. Pistons are KB, rings are Mahle 1/16, 1/16, 3/16 premium. Top ring gap is .030", second is .016". Engine did pretty good for about 1200 miles, according to customer, but now it SUCKS oil. Power is very good, no noticeable blowby, no oil leaks, no oil in the PCV hose, valve covers are properly baffled, new EQ 180 heads, rings are installed with the marking up as per instructions. Tops of pistons are washed clean with oil!!! Cylinder walls are in excellent shape, no wear, no scuffing, done with a deck plate by a very experienced machinist.

WHAT'S UP??????????????
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  #2  
Old Dec 8th, 09, 7:39 PM
Schurkey Schurkey is offline
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Default Re: A quart of oil per hundred miles

Intake manifold gasket problem? Intake and head don't match; oil vacuumed into port from underneath?

Would also create a vacuum leak AND reduce obvious signs of blowby. Any problem getting decent idle quality?
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  #3  
Old Dec 8th, 09, 7:59 PM
hotrodrobert hotrodrobert is offline
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Default Re: A quart of oil per hundred miles

Intake is sealed properly, ports are clean and dry, back of intake valves are clean and dry also so no oil through the intake. Tops of pistons are washed and very oily. Engine is apart now trying to find the problem. Engine had very little smoke, none you could see from inside the car, power, response were very good. Filled the pan, marked the stick then drove about 100miles with a stop at about 50 miles just to check. First 50 were very hard with several WOT runs, 3k+ on the freeway. used enough oil to see the drop on the stick, but not near half a quart. Second 50 was easy driving in traffic and used more than half a quart!!!!! If it was a race car, I wouldn't touch it.
Rings are standard tension, not low tension.
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  #4  
Old Dec 8th, 09, 8:16 PM
matt's66 matt's66 is offline
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Default Re: A quart of oil per hundred miles

Valve seals damaged? Possibly by too much lift or improperly installed or NOT installed. That happened to a friend of mine. Drove a fresh 307 for approx 1500 miles or so and it started to smell like burning oil. Funny thing is that it didn't smoke hardly at all. He took the car to the machine shop and they discovered that they had forgotten to put the seals in!
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Old Dec 8th, 09, 8:19 PM
350_Malibu 350_Malibu is offline
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Default Re: A quart of oil per hundred miles

Did you seal up the threaded hole used to hold the Fuel Pump push rod in place during a mechanical fuel pump install?
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  #6  
Old Dec 8th, 09, 11:00 PM
Tom Mobley Tom Mobley is offline
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Default Re: A quart of oil per hundred miles

I'm guessing the cylinder walls are glazed. run a 320 grit ball hone through it, try it again. re-use the rings but double check that they're right side up.
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  #7  
Old Dec 8th, 09, 11:07 PM
Scotch Scotch is offline
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Default Re: A quart of oil per hundred miles

Were you running synthetic oil?
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  #8  
Old Dec 8th, 09, 11:25 PM
gnicholson gnicholson is offline
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Default Re: A quart of oil per hundred miles

have you noticed wear patterns on the rings or cyl walls such as perpindicular lines or polished marks on the rings. my guess is the rings did not seat. if they dont in the first minute or so they wont for a long time. i assume the rings were installed properly , the cylinders were honed with the right grit and cross hatch. piston to wall clearance right. last thing; did you over oil the piston assy's during installation? that will absolutely keep rings from seating with moly rings and the slick cyl finishes generally used. very small amount of oil on the skirts with the rings dry. use total seal dry lube
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Old Dec 9th, 09, 7:02 AM
BillK BillK is offline
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Default Re: A quart of oil per hundred miles

Robert,
Any chance of posting a picture of the rings still on the pistons ? Close up would be best.
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  #10  
Old Dec 9th, 09, 8:32 AM
hotrodrobert hotrodrobert is offline
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Default Re: A quart of oil per hundred miles

Matt's 66: Valve seals are perfect, plently of clearance, positive teflon seals, valve heads are dry, no intake leaks.

350 Malibu: I know the bolt you are talking about and it is tight with sealer, no other leaks, it is powder dry everywhere.

Tom Mobley: Cylinder walls may be a little shiny and the block is at the machine shop now to be re-honed on Sunnen machine with deck plate. My vision is not what it used to be so I had to take it to someone else. Will let you know. Rings were right side up on every piston, show NORMAL early break in wear with light ring all the way around the rings.

Scotch: The engine was run about 50 miles with 30wt non detergent oil then Mobile One was used. I had asked for Joe Gibbs Break In Oil to be used but the installer thought this was too expensive and overkill.

gnicholson: There are no vertical scratches, etc. The skirts were lubed with assembly lube, wrist pins with 30wt nd oil, walls wiped with ATF prior to assemble and the rings were dry.

Bill K: I don't have a digital camera and don't know how to post pictures anyway but I will try to find someone who can.

Thanks for the help!!!! I have built a lot of motors since my first in the summer of 1960 and few have given me a fit like this one!!!!
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  #11  
Old Dec 9th, 09, 12:25 PM
Tom Mobley Tom Mobley is offline
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Default Re: A quart of oil per hundred miles

30 wt non-d? ouch, who thought of that? that deal has been obsolete for 40 years. hope you're running a roller cam. skip the syn oil.

put it back together, just use regular dino oil. See Gary's note about oiling the piston/rings at assembly.
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  #12  
Old Dec 9th, 09, 1:15 PM
hotrodrobert hotrodrobert is offline
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Default Re: A quart of oil per hundred miles

I usually use the Joe Gibbs breakin oil for flat tappets. This engine is HR.
30wt nd was installer's idea because he didn't want to pay for the Joe Gibbs.
I usually use Valvoline or Castrol of appropriate weights for breakin for at least 3k, then maybe go synthetic and have had no issues for many years.
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Old Dec 9th, 09, 5:20 PM
Scotch Scotch is offline
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Default Re: A quart of oil per hundred miles

If you'd have done your 3,000 mile deal with this one, I think you'd have been fine. I think the synth was sneaking past the rings. I doubt they were fully seated before the Mobil 1 was added.

Just my opinion...but I've seen this happen before.
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  #14  
Old Dec 9th, 09, 5:54 PM
hotrodrobert hotrodrobert is offline
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Default Re: A quart of oil per hundred miles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotch View Post
If you'd have done your 3,000 mile deal with this one, I think you'd have been fine. I think the synth was sneaking past the rings. I doubt they were fully seated before the Mobil 1 was added.

Just my opinion...but I've seen this happen before.
I think you are probably right. That is how it WILL be done this time. I have found nothing out of the ordinary and neither have the other people I have had look. Rings have a very thin rub line where they meet the cylinder walls.
I had the machine shop rehone on the Sunnen machine just for insurance. I NEVER want to do this again
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Old Dec 9th, 09, 9:28 PM
BillK BillK is offline
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Default Re: A quart of oil per hundred miles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotch View Post
If you'd have done your 3,000 mile deal with this one, I think you'd have been fine. I think the synth was sneaking past the rings. I doubt they were fully seated before the Mobil 1 was added.

Just my opinion...but I've seen this happen before.
Scott,

I have used Mobil 1 in engines from the beginning several times and have not had a single problem. GM puts it in every Corvette and every Caddy from the factory and it works just fine.

Just my opinion,
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