ZZ427/480 vs ZZ502/502: Opinions? - Chevelle Tech
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  #1  
Old Jul 31st, 09, 3:10 PM
BigsWick BigsWick is offline
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Default ZZ427/480 vs ZZ502/502: Opinions?

Guys,

The 396 in my '66 is getting a little tired and I want something bigger with more umph. I'm not interested in having a custom engine built, so let me get that out of the way- not an option. Yes, I know there are some great machine shops and engine builders out there. I worked for one of the best in the southeast for several years, and I know what is involved with building an engine from scratch. I have a great working relationship with my local Chevy dealer and have bought crate engines from him in the past, so that's the route I'm going to go.

He has quoted me a price of $9,850 deilvered (plus tax) for a ZZ427/480, and I'm still waiting on a price for a ZZ502/502. I'm ballparking it at $8,000 delivered.

Ever since I was a kid I've been in love with the 427. I've never had one, only 396s and 454s, so here's my chance, right? I guess that would make this choice a no brainer for some guys, but the potential difference in power between a 427 and the 502 has me hesitating. The cost, possibly a $1,800 difference or more, also has me scratching my head. I am also going to pull the M-21 in favor of an M-22 or preferrably an HD 5 speed with overdrive. The rear will remain the stock 12 bolt with 3.73 posi.

Opinions???


Thanks!
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  #2  
Old Jul 31st, 09, 3:28 PM
PCB67SS PCB67SS is offline
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Default Re: ZZ427/480 vs ZZ502/502: Opinions?

Are you referring the Aluminum block ZL-1 or the steel block 430 hp? If the price he gave you is for the 430hp version I would pass.
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  #3  
Old Jul 31st, 09, 3:43 PM
m22456 m22456 is offline
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Default Re: ZZ427/480 vs ZZ502/502: Opinions?

check out doug herbert.com a 555 with 675hp for cheaper than that
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  #4  
Old Jul 31st, 09, 4:44 PM
wildman926 wildman926 is offline
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Default Re: ZZ427/480 vs ZZ502/502: Opinions?

Give Mark Jones/Vortec Pro a call about your motor needs....
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  #5  
Old Jul 31st, 09, 4:47 PM
badrad badrad is offline
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Default Re: ZZ427/480 vs ZZ502/502: Opinions?

That's a pretty high price. You can get a Gen VI 427 crank for around $200 and the block for around $1500. I honestly think you could buy all the right pieces and build it for about half that price.
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  #6  
Old Aug 1st, 09, 1:15 AM
pdq67 pdq67 is offline
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Thumbs up Re: ZZ427/480 vs ZZ502/502: Opinions?

PLEASE look into Mark's engines!

Ask him for a price on a modern pump gas 427 L-88 type engine!

pdq67
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Old Aug 1st, 09, 2:05 AM
kettbo kettbo is offline
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Default Re: ZZ427/480 vs ZZ502/502: Opinions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigsWick View Post
Guys,
I have a great working relationship with my local Chevy dealer and have bought crate engines from him in the past, so that's the route I'm going to go.

He has quoted me a price of $9,850 deilvered (plus tax) for a ZZ427/480, and I'm still waiting on a price for a ZZ502/502. I'm ballparking it at $8,000 delivered.

Opinions???


Thanks!
You asked for opinions......be careful what you ask for.....
Are you out of your mind?
$5000 or there about will buy an engine that will leave those factory jobs in the dirt.....and leave you with 4-5 thousand buck left over. They probably like you very much at the Chevy dealer...spending cash so freely.

Kevin R's 427 with Brodex RROs went 11.51 tonight.....
Bet he could build two of them for the price of one of your crate engines.
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  #8  
Old Aug 1st, 09, 2:14 AM
65lkey 65lkey is offline
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Default Re: ZZ427/480 vs ZZ502/502: Opinions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kettbo View Post
You asked for opinions......be careful what you ask for.....
Are you out of your mind?
$5000 or there about will buy an engine that will leave those factory jobs in the dirt.....and leave you with 4-5 thousand buck left over. They probably like you very much at the Chevy dealer...spending cash so freely.

Kevin R's 427 with Brodex RROs went 11.51 tonight.....
Bet he could build two of them for the price of one of your crate engines.
George

I haven't added it all up yet but I have about $6k into my 427 and it's not even done. I definatly think you save a little bit of money by building it yourself. Once you start adding up the cost of heads and valvetrain that'll set you back a few $k right there. The nice part about crate motors is if i recall they have a warranty.
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  #9  
Old Aug 1st, 09, 3:22 AM
pdq67 pdq67 is offline
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Default Re: ZZ427/480 vs ZZ502/502: Opinions?

Please read up on ALL the GM crate motor ring/cylinder problems before you jump!

Mark, Carl, Mike and several others here will flat fix you up so don't jump too fast!

And right, GM want's imho, too much money for them.

pdq67
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  #10  
Old Aug 1st, 09, 4:52 AM
BigsWick BigsWick is offline
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Default Re: ZZ427/480 vs ZZ502/502: Opinions?

I've looked at it this way:

Keeping in mind that everything in a crate engine is new- not "seasoned"- what would the parts cost less machine work, assembly, and shipping? I'm guessing, but:

block: $1,500
crank: $500
bare heads: $1,000
7/16" connecting rods: $500
stainless valves, guides, and roller rockers: $1,000
cam, lifters, pistons: $1,000
intake, carb, distributor, aluminium water pump: $1,000
rings, gaskets, pushrods, bearings, valve springs, retainers, oil pan/pump: $500
balancer, flywheel, timing cover, plug wires, plugs, water neck, oil fliter, cam bearings, freeze plugs: $500

Yeah, a crate motor is expensive, but at $7,500 and counting (assembly, any machine work, shipping extra) I don't see a $5,000 savings anywhere. But, put everything at $8,500 and I could clearly save more than a few bucks by building it myself, even with parts chasing- but without a warranty.

It seems like the 502 would be the better deal coming in around $8,000.
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  #11  
Old Aug 1st, 09, 7:23 AM
69-CHVL 69-CHVL is online now
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Default Re: ZZ427/480 vs ZZ502/502: Opinions?

If, and only IF, the motors from GM was put togther with care, then they would be a decent deal. For instance, the ZZ454 is like 6000.00 last I checked, and pushing 500HP in reality. Pretty good deal for a NEW motor, all forged, alum heads, roller cam. Would be a 525+ motor with a cam change, and you can spray the hell out of it. Problem is, you run the risk of an oil burner, and the additional risk of the warranty being essentially meaningless if you dont have a dealer that cares.

Looking back, I wish I had the Vortec 475ci/575HP option...would still have that motor in my car till this day. Had a 454HO, and it just wasnt working out, and cost me dearly in the end.
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  #12  
Old Aug 1st, 09, 10:21 AM
fabio fabio is offline
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Default Re: ZZ427/480 vs ZZ502/502: Opinions?

vortecpro(check out his ebay), guy has a shop that is as clean as a medical lab and hear nothing but good feedback from his.
But if you want to go the gm route get the 502. The extra power and torque is nice.
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  #13  
Old Aug 1st, 09, 11:39 AM
BigsWick BigsWick is offline
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Default Re: ZZ427/480 vs ZZ502/502: Opinions?

I've read about the HO series of oil burners, but GM claims to have fixed those problems with the ZZ series. I haven't heard to the contrary. New for this year is a machined mechanical fuel pump boss (I want a mechanical pump) and the blocks are threaded for attaching a bell crank and clutch linkage- both big selling points for me.
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  #14  
Old Aug 1st, 09, 11:56 AM
Joe G Joe G is offline
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Default Re: ZZ427/480 vs ZZ502/502: Opinions?

I don't mean to be disrespectful, so don't take it that way. BUT, you asked for opinions and got several constructive ones with many options. After reading your last post though, it seems your mind was made up to buy a new GM anyway.
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  #15  
Old Aug 1st, 09, 12:16 PM
BigsWick BigsWick is offline
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Default Re: ZZ427/480 vs ZZ502/502: Opinions?

Well, uh, yeah- I thought I'd made that clear in my first post?

I knew there'd be guys who'd try to point me in a different direction. I appreciate the opinions anyway. What I'd hope to get was some thoughts on the 427 versus the 502.
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You smell that? Do you smell that? Burnt rubber, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of burnt rubber in the morning.

My '69 Malibu: Betsy

My '66 SS: Sheila
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