ls1 or 454?? - Chevelle Tech
Chevelle Tech join team chevelle as a supporting member  
Chevelle Parts at SS396.com      
GROUND UP & SS396.com         
Official Sponsor of Team Chevelle
     

Auto Insurance

Chevelles.com is the premier Chevrolet Chevelle Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Pro Touring Todays performance with classic style

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old Oct 6th, 08, 9:33 PM
YounGun YounGun is offline
Corey
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 17
Default ls1 or 454??

hey guys. i have a 65 el camino with a 454. its currently stock bore. i have a turbo 400 tranny and a ford 9" rear end.
i was curious if i could make a nice pro-touring car out of the elky with this current engine setup or whether id be better off selling the 454 for an ls1. from what i've gathered, the 454 is more of a drag racing engine where ls1's tend to be more for touring. i also heard ls1's run through spark plugs if they're used in street cars because they're designed to be in high rpm all the time. i was also curious what kind of good aftermarket suspension kits they had for a 65 elky for road-racing.
whats a good trans/rearend/engine setup for high speeds? like the corvette for instance: has a bitchen top speed. does anyone know how possible and costly it is to make a 65 elky be able to keep up with that(or close) and what parts i should swap from my current setup for other parts? all this given the work is done by me.

thx guys. im pretty knew to the whole pro-touring concept. i've just recently been looking into European touring cars and what not. i want a cheaper somewhat lesser version of the corvette with a 65 elky body.
__________________
65 El Camino 454,turbo400,aluminum heads, forged pistons/rods, dual-plane manifold, 125-Shot N20, after market headers, billet driveshaft(fatty yoke), ford 9"(most badass 9" they got), converted to disk brakes, all new bearings, power steering, all auto-meter guages, b&m ratchet shifter ---> LS2/6-Speed Manual Trans
***17YRS OLD***
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old Oct 6th, 08, 9:44 PM
pist0lpete pist0lpete is offline
Senior Tech Team
Neal
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma
Posts: 1,925
Default Re: ls1 or 454??

Depending on how serious you wanna get, the 454 should be fine. Sure you will have quite a bit more weight over the front tires compared to an aluminum LS1 but unless you plan on doing some hardcore road racing its probably not worth switching engines. As for the LS1 fouling spark plugs often that couldn't be further from the truth. Stock LS1's and other variants came in everything from Camaro's to trucks and most didn't even require a spark plug change till 100k miles. As far as suspension goes do some searching and you will find a wealth of info.
__________________
1967 Chevelle
LS1 swap is completed!
www.fquick.com/pist0lpete
12.70 at 108.95mph
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old Oct 6th, 08, 10:05 PM
andrewb70 andrewb70 is offline
Senior Tech Team
Andrew
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: OshVegas
Posts: 1,461
Default Re: ls1 or 454??

Once you have a car with an LSx, you will never want anything else. I yanked my 502 and installed an LS3 (almost) and would never, ever, go back.

Andrew
__________________
1970 GTO Version 2.0 in progress
V8TV Feature video
Popular Hotrodding feature
Car Craft feature
Ron Paul for President 2012

"You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old Oct 6th, 08, 10:35 PM
YounGun YounGun is offline
Corey
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 17
Default Re: ls1 or 454??

how much does it cost for the swap? i hav a stock bore 454 atm w/ brand new never used aluminum heads waiting for an engine rebuild once the engine goes(only has about 90k miles on it's stock bore), dual plane manifold, forged pistons, nice after market cam, nice after market headers/exhaust.. all i can think of off the top of my head. would that be enough to trade for a low milage ls1

off topic but - how much space is there behind the seat in a 65? is there a bump in the middle for the driveshaft? i was looking to put some subs back there... could u giv me as much details on the cab spacing as possible?
__________________
65 El Camino 454,turbo400,aluminum heads, forged pistons/rods, dual-plane manifold, 125-Shot N20, after market headers, billet driveshaft(fatty yoke), ford 9"(most badass 9" they got), converted to disk brakes, all new bearings, power steering, all auto-meter guages, b&m ratchet shifter ---> LS2/6-Speed Manual Trans
***17YRS OLD***
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old Oct 6th, 08, 11:44 PM
thunderstruck507 thunderstruck507 is offline
Senior Tech Team
Kevin
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fayetteville, AR
Posts: 4,505
Default Re: ls1 or 454??

I have over $5k in my swap with the price of the engine and tranny, but I'm not done either...also I am doing everything in bare bones hotrod fashion (think used parts, research for over the counter parts, cheap fuel line, compression fittings everywhere, ect)

I modded my gas tank too...a "real" efi tank will run you $500-1200 if you want to do everything the "easy" way

I'd keep the 454 unless you are using it for a daily driver, feel free to ask me any other questions though
__________________
1971 Chevelle SS clone
head/cam ls1, 4l60e, 3.42 12 bolt
11.67@115mph, 1.71 60ft
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old Oct 7th, 08, 12:28 AM
YounGun YounGun is offline
Corey
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 17
Default Re: ls1 or 454??

thx. yeah the 454 is the daily driver. is that $5k just outa pocket? i was thinking about selling my engine/trans and getting AT LEAST $6K between all the engine/trans parts i listed. do you think i'd be able to sell my current stuff(read my previous post..haha) and get enough to do the swap without spending any money for a stock/low milage ls1 and with whatever trans it required(less i should keep the turbo 400?) ????
__________________
65 El Camino 454,turbo400,aluminum heads, forged pistons/rods, dual-plane manifold, 125-Shot N20, after market headers, billet driveshaft(fatty yoke), ford 9"(most badass 9" they got), converted to disk brakes, all new bearings, power steering, all auto-meter guages, b&m ratchet shifter ---> LS2/6-Speed Manual Trans
***17YRS OLD***
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old Oct 7th, 08, 1:07 AM
tunedbytad tunedbytad is offline
Tech Team
Tad
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunny SoCal
Posts: 634
Send a message via AIM to tunedbytad Send a message via Yahoo to tunedbytad
Default Re: ls1 or 454??

No compairison at all LS1 all the way.

coil per cyl ignition
6 bolt mains
light valvetrain beehive springs
trunion mount rockers
no paper gaskets
much much lighter than BBC
much smaller then the BBC
Nice belt system
HPTuners scanner and editor with real time tuner!
huge aftermarket support
2 1/16" OBDII scanner gauges can give you real time info on everything!
sleaved blocks can go out to 455ci
tall deck sleave blocks go out to 500ci
these can be scored with OVERDRIVE transmissions cheap
the T56 rocks and the 4L60E is magic with te right builder

and my favorite part is no carb
once you spend a chunck of change on SC&C suspension and Kore3 brakes
your carb will be pissed about all the GForces and will not brake or turn as good as the chassis.

I was thinking a caprice wagon fuel tank and lines might fit right on an A-body.
Your in SoCal.
You should drop by www.Haddadmotorsports.com where I work.
We have 500+RWHP LS1 coming out of our ears.
__________________
NotoriouSS Tad
67 El Camino - Rosie - 7.9@86.5 1.77 60' NA on street tires
SC&C Stg2+ Lite + LCAs, AFX, Helwig, panhard, edelbrock rears, C6/ImpSS Brakes w/ HB,
WideBand, 12 Bolt w/ 4.10s, rear coil overs, 200r4 w; gauges 3K Edge TC coolers

96 Impala SS - Johhny 5 - 4500+lb 7.9 1.73 60' NA
Turns Stops & Goes above avarage
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old Oct 7th, 08, 2:53 AM
thunderstruck507 thunderstruck507 is offline
Senior Tech Team
Kevin
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fayetteville, AR
Posts: 4,505
Default Re: ls1 or 454??

I dunno what you mean "out of pocket" but I spent $2k on the motor and trans together.

Cam, lifters, springs, oil pump, ls2 timing chain, pushrods, fuel pump, swap to vette accessories, oil pan, head gaskets, head bolts, water pump/gaskets, headers ($600 alone), throttle cable, harness, pcm, new fuel line, compression fittings, power steering lines, maf, air ducting, drill and tap water pump for gauge to work, radiator hoses, engine mounts, driveshaft, exhaust, tuning, and some other small stuff...took up the rest...and it keeps going up

its not a pull out and stick in swap...

but if you're going to drive it a lot then it might be worth considering, I was getting 23mpg highway before with my 355 and overdrive, so I'm not going to see that..but I will see losing at least 400 lbs (ditched a/c too) and gaining 120hp

I will pick up some city mileage I believe...was getting 11 or so, but I'm expecting to get 13-15 with the ls1

1 thing you won't get is the BRUTAL torque of a BBC...

the t56 6 speed would be awesome but keep in mind it will require you to rework the transmission tunnel of the cars floor, the 4l60e is tight but fits
__________________
1971 Chevelle SS clone
head/cam ls1, 4l60e, 3.42 12 bolt
11.67@115mph, 1.71 60ft
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9  
Old Oct 7th, 08, 11:22 AM
YounGun YounGun is offline
Corey
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 17
Default Re: ls1 or 454??

thunderstruck507-out of pocket meaning without selling your old setup and using the profits as part of the price. Ya the torque factor was something i'm not TOO worried about. with efi ill just buy a weind 177 supercharger or perhaps a turbo system.(unless there's another better mini-blower for the ls1 torque improve?)

tunedbytad-where at in socal? im in huntington beach/orange county area..

My plans for the 454 were to run it with the 125 shot i have till it blows then rebuild it with a weiand 177 sprchrger, 496 stroker kit, aluminum heads... numbers would be rated at about 700 hp and 700+ torque. thats on a carb though. i figure if i can sell my current engine+ unused parts and t400 trans, ill be able to buy an ls1 without spending money and weld any mounts i might need on my own. whats better for a ls1 considering it will be a daily driver that ill want to drive to a track and race a little bit, and what has more bang for the buck? turbo or supercharger?

THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE INPUT GUYS. It's really helpin me out. Based off what you guys are tellin me im fixing to swap the 454 out for an LS engine.. probly LS1 if i can't find a cheap low mile LS6 or LS7.
__________________
65 El Camino 454,turbo400,aluminum heads, forged pistons/rods, dual-plane manifold, 125-Shot N20, after market headers, billet driveshaft(fatty yoke), ford 9"(most badass 9" they got), converted to disk brakes, all new bearings, power steering, all auto-meter guages, b&m ratchet shifter ---> LS2/6-Speed Manual Trans
***17YRS OLD***

Last edited by YounGun; Oct 7th, 08 at 11:52 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10  
Old Oct 7th, 08, 2:07 PM
thunderstruck507 thunderstruck507 is offline
Senior Tech Team
Kevin
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fayetteville, AR
Posts: 4,505
Default Re: ls1 or 454??

My old engine had 70k on it, so its not much good to sell, my dad is going to rering it, put in new bearings and toss it in his car

the transmission I'm trying to sell for $700 but noone wants it...its a 700r4 with transgo stage 2 kit, only has about 7k miles on it...
__________________
1971 Chevelle SS clone
head/cam ls1, 4l60e, 3.42 12 bolt
11.67@115mph, 1.71 60ft
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11  
Old Oct 7th, 08, 4:27 PM
pist0lpete pist0lpete is offline
Senior Tech Team
Neal
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma
Posts: 1,925
Default Re: ls1 or 454??

Quote:
Originally Posted by YounGun View Post
thunderstruck507-out of pocket meaning without selling your old setup and using the profits as part of the price. Ya the torque factor was something i'm not TOO worried about. with efi ill just buy a weind 177 supercharger or perhaps a turbo system.(unless there's another better mini-blower for the ls1 torque improve?)

tunedbytad-where at in socal? im in huntington beach/orange county area..

My plans for the 454 were to run it with the 125 shot i have till it blows then rebuild it with a weiand 177 sprchrger, 496 stroker kit, aluminum heads... numbers would be rated at about 700 hp and 700+ torque. thats on a carb though. i figure if i can sell my current engine+ unused parts and t400 trans, ill be able to buy an ls1 without spending money and weld any mounts i might need on my own. whats better for a ls1 considering it will be a daily driver that ill want to drive to a track and race a little bit, and what has more bang for the buck? turbo or supercharger?

THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE INPUT GUYS. It's really helpin me out. Based off what you guys are tellin me im fixing to swap the 454 out for an LS engine.. probly LS1 if i can't find a cheap low mile LS6 or LS7.
I would say the LSX procharger kits are tough to beat for power to money ratio. Turbo kits are expensive but if you are willing to do most of the fab work yourself it may end up being cheaper than a procharger. Although the stock internals (depending on what LSX you get) don't usually last long once you go beyond 600 rwhp. I would say if you aren't planning on building the motor an LS2 would be a great starting point as would an LS7 but they are tough to find and not cheap. LS1's are good as well but don't have the power potential of an LS2 with stock internals. A 6.0 truck engine might also be a nice choice although they are a bit heavier with the iron block. Theres lots of options out there and if you are serious about this you need to get on www.ls1tech.com and read read read to learn more about these engines and check out the conversions and hybrids section on there to learn about putting an LSX engine in your chevelle.
__________________
1967 Chevelle
LS1 swap is completed!
www.fquick.com/pist0lpete
12.70 at 108.95mph
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12  
Old Oct 7th, 08, 5:22 PM
YounGun YounGun is offline
Corey
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 17
Default Re: ls1 or 454??

I'm going to try to find a low milage LS2 and a 6-speed manual trans. I'll keep it stock for a while until i have the money to buy either or pro charger or a turbo system(i'll be doing the fab work it that be the case). How much would an ls2/6-speed manual trans(stock and low miles on both) swap cost considering i do all the fab/labor?

Thx for that link Pete. Looks like i'll be glued to my comp for the next few days trying to take in all i can.
__________________
65 El Camino 454,turbo400,aluminum heads, forged pistons/rods, dual-plane manifold, 125-Shot N20, after market headers, billet driveshaft(fatty yoke), ford 9"(most badass 9" they got), converted to disk brakes, all new bearings, power steering, all auto-meter guages, b&m ratchet shifter ---> LS2/6-Speed Manual Trans
***17YRS OLD***
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13  
Old Oct 7th, 08, 5:43 PM
thunderstruck507 thunderstruck507 is offline
Senior Tech Team
Kevin
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fayetteville, AR
Posts: 4,505
Default Re: ls1 or 454??

I'm doing all my own fab and labor too...it's going to cost somewhere in the area of $6-7k minimum I would think.

Just depends on what you do...my ls1 is cammed so I had to get the supporting mods to do that.

I am just ready to drive it, maybe I won't be so bitter about how much I've spent once I actually drive it...or at least hear it run.
__________________
1971 Chevelle SS clone
head/cam ls1, 4l60e, 3.42 12 bolt
11.67@115mph, 1.71 60ft
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14  
Old Oct 7th, 08, 5:51 PM
YounGun YounGun is offline
Corey
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 17
Default Re: ls1 or 454??

well i know i could sell what i currently have under my car for at least that.
do you guys know of a good place to look for ls engines for sale?
__________________
65 El Camino 454,turbo400,aluminum heads, forged pistons/rods, dual-plane manifold, 125-Shot N20, after market headers, billet driveshaft(fatty yoke), ford 9"(most badass 9" they got), converted to disk brakes, all new bearings, power steering, all auto-meter guages, b&m ratchet shifter ---> LS2/6-Speed Manual Trans
***17YRS OLD***
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15  
Old Oct 7th, 08, 6:35 PM
thunderstruck507 thunderstruck507 is offline
Senior Tech Team
Kevin
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fayetteville, AR
Posts: 4,505
Default Re: ls1 or 454??

i found mine on ebay, it was listed as local pickup only in talequah OK

scrapyards, ebay, craigslist...ls1tech.com for sale section
__________________
1971 Chevelle SS clone
head/cam ls1, 4l60e, 3.42 12 bolt
11.67@115mph, 1.71 60ft
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply
Chevelle Tech > Specialty > Pro Touring      Current Topic: ls1 or 454??
Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Chevelle Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address. Note, you will be sent a confirmation request to this address.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:31 PM.


Is there a site like this for?    El Caminos Camaros Novas Impalas GTO Chevy Punch All Chevys

2009 Team Chevelle - AutoForums