355 SBC maximum effort. With rules. - Chevelle Tech
Chevelle Tech join team chevelle as a supporting member  
Chevelle Parts at SS396.com      
GROUND UP & SS396.com         
Official Sponsor of Team Chevelle
     

Auto Insurance

Chevelles.com is the premier Chevrolet Chevelle Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Performance Our High Performance area

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old Sep 20th, 08, 8:25 AM
Mikeys69 Mikeys69 is offline
Lifetime Premium Member
/\/\ikey
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Alberta
Posts: 5,384
Send a message via MSN to Mikeys69
Default 355 SBC maximum effort. With rules.

This is a 355 SBC maximum effort with a few rules.
NOTE: Combo has been edited.

Heres the rules to this build.

1.) Keep the build to 10k or less.
2.) Carb to Pan.
3.) No Power adders.
3.) Using a 3500lbs 69 Chevelle.
4.) Bore could be anything between 4.00" to 4.125".
5.) Automatic Trans.
6.) Car will be 95% Track.
7.) No Big Blocks (Serious about this)
8.) Looking for mid to high 10's.

Can we do this build? If so whats your ideas?

Thanks guys.
__________________
2012 GMC Terrain
2011 Chev Silverado
2004 Chev Silverado
1969 Chevelle Malibu 406 SB

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386745

Some day I will own a 1967 Chevelle, again.

Last edited by Mikeys69; Sep 21st, 08 at 2:45 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old Sep 20th, 08, 8:48 AM
onovakind67 onovakind67 is offline
Senior Tech Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Fairfield, CA
Posts: 4,401
Default Re: 355 SBC maximum effort. With rules.

What does 'maximum effort' mean?
__________________
"For those that will fight for it...FREEDOM ...has a flavor the protected shall never know."
Semper Fi! L/Cpl Edwin L. "Tim" Craft, B Co 3rd AT's, Khe Sanh Combat Base, February, 1968
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old Sep 20th, 08, 9:11 AM
BowtieAaron BowtieAaron is offline
Senior Tech Team
Aaron
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Bethlehem Pa, USA
Posts: 6,162
Send a message via AIM to BowtieAaron
Default Re: 355 SBC maximum effort. With rules.

what cam are you thinking?

there are LT1 combo's making well over 400whp with 260cfm heads. thts with a cam in the 240 duration @ 50, around 550-600 lift.
it cam be done, throw some compression in it, maybe 11:1, a roller (either solid or hydraulic), and a nice intake.
if your using a factory roller block, check into a few comp grinds, such as the cc306, or other lt1 cams. all you need to do it drive the drive pin in about .250. or can have a custom cam made for not much more. i think lunati gets 350-360 when i was talking to them, and i paid 315 for their voodoo roller...


aaron
__________________
71 chevelle
355 10.3:1cr, brodix ik180 heads, voodoo hyd roller, holley efi intake, eMS-PRO, 60lbs dekas, ls tb, 700r4, 3.55 gears
Soon to be 7875 turbocharged!
368rwhp 383rwtq n/a with carb
12.23 @ 110 1.68 60ft
Dyno video NA
http://youtu.be/PvZ7tDVyryw
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old Sep 20th, 08, 9:41 AM
DragRacer DragRacer is offline
Lifetime Premium Member
Jason
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: Highland Village TX, USA
Posts: 2,579
Default Re: 355 SBC maximum effort. With rules.

With the imposed rules, it means a mismatched combo.

Mike,

Can you take some measurements on the heads? What is the minimum diameter of the valve bowl just below the seat - the valve "throat"?

What is the minimum cross sectional area of the head? This will usually be the pushrod pinch on an SBC head. This needs to be at least 2.1 sq in. 2.6 sq in. preferred.

What is the head flow at .700, .800, .900, and 1.000" valve lift?

4.125" bore (4.165-4.185 preferred)
14.5:1 compression (measured, not piston mfg. advertised)
.043/.043/3mm rings
1.0625" compression height
6.2" Oliver or Lunati Billet steel rods
4340 Callies, Bryant, Crower, etc. Crank with BBC crank snout
Melling 10552 pump
As big of an oil pan as your chassis will allow with windage tray
Jesel belt
T&D or Jesel Shaft rockers (you pick ratio to achieve proper lift below, realistically will need to be 1.6+ to achieve required lift on a std. SBC cam core)
Victor Junior
vacuum pump 10-12" vaccum at full load
1.75" header with 28-30" primary length, 3.5" collector x 16" long. (assuming open exhaust)

With the current heads, they are going to limit RPM to ~7000 RPM. VE will be limited to ~102%. Therefore power will be limited to ~570 HP.

Based on that. Solid Roller Cam. Cam would need to be .700" NET lift on the intake/exhaust. So ~probably .715-.725" before lash is subtracted. The small valves(for "big" bore) are going to require a little more duration than I would otherwise use. 260/272@ .050 108 ICL, 110 LSA.

I know you don't want to hear it, but to optimize this "maximum effort" engine, you will need a 5600 RPM flash converter and a 4.88 gear with 28" tall slicks to have a "maximum effort" combination.
__________________
Jason Gore
AKA DragRacer
Naturally Aspriated 450 SBC - 915 HP / 714 lb-ft
3555 lbs
1.40 - 60', 6.18 @ 116.7 MPH - 1/8th
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old Sep 20th, 08, 10:21 AM
Mikeys69 Mikeys69 is offline
Lifetime Premium Member
/\/\ikey
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Alberta
Posts: 5,384
Send a message via MSN to Mikeys69
Default Re: 355 SBC maximum effort. With rules.

DragRacer: 1st. Thanks for your reply and effort.

The heads are bolted onto the old block at this time. But I will try to get those measurements. There is no listing for .700 and above. The block will more than likely be a DART SHP Block. CNC is selling these cleaned up and ready to go.
But I thinking by using these heads air flow is limited. This is why I was trying to keep the cubic inch down. Not going to a 383, 406 etc.


Comp Cams says, 2800+ stall, 10:1+ compression with 3.73-3.90 rear gears. Using this cam.
Comp Cams (280B-8) 12-221-5 Mechanical Flat Tappet Camshafts
Operating Range: 3000-6000 RPM
Duration Advertised: 280 Intake / 285 Exhaust
Duration @ .050'' Lift: 242 Intake / 250 Exhaust
Valve Lift w/1.5 Rockers: .507'' Intake / .532'' Exhaust
Valve Setting: .026'' Intake / .028'' Exhaust
Lobe Separation Angle: 108

It keeps me well within the rules of this build.
__________________
2012 GMC Terrain
2011 Chev Silverado
2004 Chev Silverado
1969 Chevelle Malibu 406 SB

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386745

Some day I will own a 1967 Chevelle, again.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old Sep 20th, 08, 10:44 AM
spodrbik spodrbik is offline
Tech Team
Scott
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cleveland,Ohio
Posts: 166
Default Re: 355 SBC maximum effort. With rules.

hi how are you my dad has
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old Sep 20th, 08, 10:53 AM
dirtrocker dirtrocker is offline
Senior Tech Team
Kevin
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: E. Carondelet, Il. USA
Posts: 1,844
Send a message via Yahoo to dirtrocker
Default Re: 355 SBC maximum effort. With rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by big_red View Post
DragRacer: 1st. Thanks for your reply and effort.

The heads are bolted onto the old block at this time. But I will try to get those measurements. There is no listing for .700 and above. The block will more than likely be a DART SHP Block. CNC is selling these cleaned up and ready to go.
But I thinking by using these heads air flow is limited. This is why I was trying to keep the cubic inch down. Not going to a 383, 406 etc.


Comp Cams says, 2800+ stall, 10:1+ compression with 3.73-3.90 rear gears. Using this cam.
Comp Cams (280B-8) 12-221-5 Mechanical Flat Tappet Camshafts
Operating Range: 3000-6000 RPM
Duration Advertised: 280 Intake / 285 Exhaust
Duration @ .050'' Lift: 242 Intake / 250 Exhaust
Valve Lift w/1.5 Rockers: .507'' Intake / .532'' Exhaust
Valve Setting: .026'' Intake / .028'' Exhaust
Lobe Separation Angle: 108

It keeps me well within the rules of this build.

I've been curious about this build: http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238704

RPM heads are smaller at 170cc, this is a 383, and a 6.89 1/8 mile should be a high 10 second quarter...right?
__________________
1971 chevelle SS conv. dark rosewood metallic w/ black top/stripes/int. 402/4sp bench. Under resto.

1965 Chevelle Malibu 4dr Wagon, 283, pg, ps, air.

1984 Buick GN

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...kle142hs1.jpg/
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old Sep 20th, 08, 10:56 AM
Klamath Klamath is offline
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 285
Default Re: 355 SBC maximum effort. With rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onovakind67 View Post
What does 'maximum effort' mean?
Nitro.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9  
Old Sep 20th, 08, 11:20 AM
DragRacer DragRacer is offline
Lifetime Premium Member
Jason
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: Highland Village TX, USA
Posts: 2,579
Default Re: 355 SBC maximum effort. With rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by big_red View Post
DragRacer: 1st. Thanks for your reply and effort.

The heads are bolted onto the old block at this time. But I will try to get those measurements. There is no listing for .700 and above. The block will more than likely be a DART SHP Block. CNC is selling these cleaned up and ready to go.
But I thinking by using these heads air flow is limited. This is why I was trying to keep the cubic inch down. Not going to a 383, 406 etc.


Comp Cams says, 2800+ stall, 10:1+ compression with 3.73-3.90 rear gears. Using this cam.
Comp Cams (280B-8) 12-221-5 Mechanical Flat Tappet Camshafts
Operating Range: 3000-6000 RPM
Duration Advertised: 280 Intake / 285 Exhaust
Duration @ .050'' Lift: 242 Intake / 250 Exhaust
Valve Lift w/1.5 Rockers: .507'' Intake / .532'' Exhaust
Valve Setting: .026'' Intake / .028'' Exhaust
Lobe Separation Angle: 108

It keeps me well within the rules of this build.
Mike,

We'll have to disagree on what "max effort" means then. I would consider that a well matched street combo. You will need to keep compression and cam down and I think you are in the ballpark.

I was figuring on using the 3.48" stroke. The 4.125" or bigger bore further unshrouds the valves and give you a little bit better breathing and provide more cubes and TQ at the same time. However, the 2.02 valves are a little small for the larger bore and on the relatively mild combo, you may not see that much difference. I'd probably save my money and use a factory 4.030 bore.
__________________
Jason Gore
AKA DragRacer
Naturally Aspriated 450 SBC - 915 HP / 714 lb-ft
3555 lbs
1.40 - 60', 6.18 @ 116.7 MPH - 1/8th
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10  
Old Sep 20th, 08, 11:33 AM
DragRacer DragRacer is offline
Lifetime Premium Member
Jason
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: Highland Village TX, USA
Posts: 2,579
Default Re: 355 SBC maximum effort. With rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtrocker View Post
I've been curious about this build: http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238704

RPM heads are smaller at 170cc, this is a 383, and a 6.89 1/8 mile should be a high 10 second quarter...right?
Yes, should be high 10's in the 1/4. 6.89 x 1.575 = 10.85 MPH would be 122-123. Note, this is with a 4800-5000 stall converter and raceweight is 3200 lbs.
__________________
Jason Gore
AKA DragRacer
Naturally Aspriated 450 SBC - 915 HP / 714 lb-ft
3555 lbs
1.40 - 60', 6.18 @ 116.7 MPH - 1/8th
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11  
Old Sep 20th, 08, 1:17 PM
trmnatr trmnatr is offline
Banned
Butch
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 10,048
Default Re: 355 SBC maximum effort. With rules.

Mike, we can work with the heads, thats for sure Whats hard to work with is that little stall and rear gear.

If your willing to compromise on the converter and gearing those heads can work pretty good. When i mean change the stall and gears im talking running a 5,500rpm stall and a 4.56-5.38 gear depending on combination of parts used

I dont like a track engine {small block} that has to turn more than 2,500rpm to the shift point. Example, if the converter stalls @ 5,000rpm i would want the shift point to be at least 6,300rpm but no higher than 7,500rpm

To get a small cube engine to run good your gonna need a 7,400rpm shift, your gonna need at least a 5,000rpm stall.

In the Camaro we shift about 1,300-1,500rpm above converter stall because its a glide. A 3 speed you want to shift 2,000-2,500rpm above converter stall

Let us know
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12  
Old Sep 21st, 08, 1:16 AM
Mikeys69 Mikeys69 is offline
Lifetime Premium Member
/\/\ikey
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Alberta
Posts: 5,384
Send a message via MSN to Mikeys69
Default Re: 355 SBC maximum effort. With rules.

1.) Keep the build to 10k or less.
2.) Carb to Pan.
3.) No Power adders.
3.) Using a 3500lbs 69 Chevelle.
4.) Bore could be anything between 4.00" to 4.125".
5.) Automatic Trans.
6.) Car will be 95% Track.
7.) No Big Blocks (Serious about this)
8.) Looking for mid to high 10's.
__________________
2012 GMC Terrain
2011 Chev Silverado
2004 Chev Silverado
1969 Chevelle Malibu 406 SB

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386745

Some day I will own a 1967 Chevelle, again.

Last edited by Mikeys69; Sep 21st, 08 at 2:47 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13  
Old Sep 21st, 08, 11:13 AM
animal69 animal69 is offline
Lifetime Premium Member
Chris
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 4,293
Default Re: 355 SBC maximum effort. With rules.

It's hard to call it "maximum effort" if you put all types of restrictions on it. Just list what you want to use and and ask for suggestions on the build. You are willing to buy an expensive block but restrict the heads to what you have. ??????
__________________

I never make mistakes, but on occasion I present myself with an opportunity to get very creative.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14  
Old Sep 21st, 08, 2:51 PM
Mikeys69 Mikeys69 is offline
Lifetime Premium Member
/\/\ikey
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Alberta
Posts: 5,384
Send a message via MSN to Mikeys69
Default Re: 355 SBC maximum effort. With rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by animal69 View Post
It's hard to call it "maximum effort" if you put all types of restrictions on it. Just list what you want to use and and ask for suggestions on the build. You are willing to buy an expensive block but restrict the heads to what you have. ??????
PM send.
__________________
2012 GMC Terrain
2011 Chev Silverado
2004 Chev Silverado
1969 Chevelle Malibu 406 SB

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386745

Some day I will own a 1967 Chevelle, again.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15  
Old Sep 21st, 08, 3:52 PM
trmnatr trmnatr is offline
Banned
Butch
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 10,048
Default Re: 355 SBC maximum effort. With rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by big_red View Post
1.) Keep the build to 10k or less.
2.) Carb to Pan.
3.) No Power adders.
3.) Using a 3500lbs 69 Chevelle.
4.) Bore could be anything between 4.00" to 4.125".
5.) Automatic Trans.
6.) Car will be 95% Track.
7.) No Big Blocks (Serious about this)
8.) Looking for mid to high 10's.
Ok, thats fair enough

*Bore the block .040" over and install the pistons from Keith black i suggest, they weigh 454grams and need a 6" rod
http://kb-silvolite.com/forged.php?a...tails&P_id=385

Here is a link to Summit for the pistons above for $458.99
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...8&autoview=sku

*Use the following rings here, set the top ring to .020", set the second ring to .025"-.030". When you buy this ring set ask to upgrade to the napier second ring {it may already come with it, Call Total Seal}.
Rings are $105.95
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

*When it comes to rods you can use Eagle H-beams. If it is in the budget step up to GRP Aluminum, GRP Aluminum rods for that application are $818 for a set. If you choose to run Eagle i would run the following with the bolt upgrade which is 265,000psi +. It is L19, thats what ARP calls it, to give you a better idea of what it is, Have you heard od "Tool Steel". Thats what L19 is
So we have $524.99 for the rods
http://www.jegs.com/i/Eagle/356/CRS6000B3DL1/10002/-1
Or GRP Aluminum for $818.00

*When it comes to the crank i would do a Scat or an Eagle. Your preference. Both are good quality material and are somewhat Equal in terms of material. I will link both cranks below
Eagle crank costs $629.99
http://www.jegs.com/i/Eagle/356/435034805700/10002/-1
Scat crank costs $629.99
I like Crower and Bryant cranks but dont get to use them much because cost, people dont want to pay that much money. Some people such as Mike say the Callies cheaper stuf is on the money, might want to look in that too. Lunati cranks work good, here is a link to the Lunati sledgehammer crank for $809.99, All i can say is the Lunati Pro Series cranks are good, not sure about these
http://www.jegs.com/i/Lunati/638/AF115AN/10002/-1#

*As to the camshaft, I would go with that Lunati if you dont have a problem with a 5,500rpm converter, 4.56-5.38 gears and 8,000rpm past the lights. The camshaft is $2.00 cheaper from Lunati than Jeg's @ $338.63

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1802&gid=249

*For lifters i would look at the following for $357.99
http://www.jegs.com/i/Crane/270/11519-16/10002/-1
If you want what i consider to be the best go with these for $541.99
http://www.jegs.com/i/Crane/270/11570-16/10002/-1

*With the cam and a .026/.026 valve lash your net lift will be .655" on the intake and .606 exhaust. Here are the springs and retainers i would look at:
$336.99 for the Manley springs
http://www.jegs.com/i/Manley/660/22440-16/10002/-1
You will need these retainers with that spring for $194.99
http://www.jegs.com/i/Manley/660/23658-16/10002/-1

If you want the ULTIMATE in valve control and RPM you MUST use a rocker arm that you clearance for the springs or shaft mounts but will be the best spring to run "In My Opinion"
You can run these springs set up @ 1.95" and they will run you $377.99
http://www.jegs.com/i/Crane/270/99880-16/10002/-1# - These springs at my suggested 1.95" will give you 275 pounds seat pressure. The springs @ 1.95" when you install them will be around 298 but after 10-15 passes they will drop to the 275 advertised and will last you about 70-80 passes
If you run them you MUST run a very good spring retainer, I like the Crane Cams "Posi-Stop" retainers. The ones needed with those 1.625" springs are part # 99675-16 and they run $326.99
http://www.jegs.com/i/Crane/270/99675-16/10002/-1#

If you go stud rockers and use the 1.625" springs only open up the rocker in the recess thats already there. It can be done with success, you can also use stainless steel rockers and clearance them or just use a set of shaft mount rockers

If you use the 1.55" springs, use a good 5/16" pushrod. If you use the 1.625" springs use the largest pushrod you can get in there. I know with GM castings you can get a 7/16"-3/8" tapper pushrod in there with alot of work and Dart's you can get a 7/16" pushrod in there. You will have some very carefull work to do though and use offset rockers. Without an offset rocker most heads you can fit 3/8" with some carefull grinding. A 3/8" heavy wall will work with the 1.625" springs but the 7/16" .165" wall would be best for the RPM and spring pressure

Use King bearings or Clevite "V" series or Clevite "H" series. Use a Dart or Super Victor or Victor E intake with a Pro Systems 950 based carb. If there is a budget left use a Jesel belt drive. Launch @ 5,000rpm+ if the suspension will take it at your track on that given day. A Transbrake is a must !!!!!

Last edited by trmnatr; Sep 21st, 08 at 4:05 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply
Chevelle Tech > General Tech Area > Performance      Current Topic: 355 SBC maximum effort. With rules.
Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Chevelle Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address. Note, you will be sent a confirmation request to this address.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 8:21 AM.


Is there a site like this for?    El Caminos Camaros Novas Impalas GTO Chevy Punch All Chevys

2009 Team Chevelle - AutoForums