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  #1  
Old Sep 14th, 08, 5:58 PM
steves1967 steves1967 is offline
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Default Roll Cage/Bar pics?

Went to the track last night, 11.1@123 faster than I thought! Now I have to install a cage or bar. Anybody have any pics of a 64-67 so I can get some ideas?
Thanks!
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  #2  
Old Sep 14th, 08, 6:24 PM
tlowe tlowe is offline
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Default Re: Roll Cage/Bar pics?

i would also like to ask, who would make a kit to fit the elco cabin specifically? tom
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  #3  
Old Sep 14th, 08, 6:54 PM
bln bln is offline
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Default Re: Roll Cage/Bar pics?

I searched around and found these on the net http://www.empirenet.com/pkelley2/67.html
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  #4  
Old Sep 14th, 08, 7:28 PM
CHELKAMINO CHELKAMINO is offline
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Default Re: Roll Cage/Bar pics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlowe View Post
i would also like to ask, who would make a kit to fit the elco cabin specifically? tom
Probably the same as a Chevelle??
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  #5  
Old Sep 15th, 08, 4:22 AM
Surfin' 66 Surfin' 66 is offline
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Default Re: Roll Cage/Bar pics?





These are not from my car.
I built my own cage setup. It isn't hard to do. I have the main hoop and diagonal brace bent to maximize interior room since I'm 6'2" and need the legroom.

I had the full 8 points installed Camaro-style when it was still a mouse motor, but now the car is much faster and I'm starting again... the bars are going to the frame thru the floor NHRA-style. (You have no choice in a Camaro).
I've gotten as far as the main hoop and brace (again!).
Learn from my mistake and only do it once. Welding to the frame beats the double toothpix outta double-plating it to the body structure any day. Check out the thread under Chevelle Tech on A-body frame flex.

This is a poor pic, taken as I prepare to disassemble the body and remove it from the frame, but you can see one thing- the main hoop is also tabbed to the shoulder-harness mounts on the pillars, giving a big boost to the stiffness in the back window area. Also, I reversed the diagonal brace this time around for more headroom, although now the passenger bumps (her) head whenever I hit the next gear. Hence the padding. Man, that stuff sure tends to slide around a lot. More tie wraps, I guess.



At the time of the first cage I did not foresee building a 9-second street car, as it is now ending up to be.

Eric
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Inside every GTO is a Chevelle trying to come out
1966 El Camino with a 1964 GTO body.
Blueprinted street/strip 572, sequential injection, TKO-600, Dana 60, cryo'd 1350s, Global West w/ coil-overs, 12" 4WDB, intense mods to the Elco frame, no music, hardcore 'Nam-era 1971 style Two Lane Blacktop car. Lions/OCIR veteran.

Last edited by Surfin' 66; Sep 15th, 08 at 4:41 AM.
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  #6  
Old Sep 15th, 08, 10:07 AM
cuisinartvette cuisinartvette is offline
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Default Re: Roll Cage/Bar pics?

So the cage has to go through the floor and be welded to the frame to be legal?
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  #7  
Old Sep 15th, 08, 5:17 PM
Surfin' 66 Surfin' 66 is offline
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Default Re: Roll Cage/Bar pics?

Yes, only unibody cars like F-bodies and Mopar E-bodies can have the bars welded to plates welded to the floor pan and other body structural parts.

Cars with real frames have to have the bars penetrate the floor and be welded directly to the frame.

If somebody's only running in the 12s or where even only a 2 or 4-point roll bar is not required, then a bar voluntarily installed can be welded to the plated floor, but only because the bar itself would not be required in that particular speed/time class.
Example: you can wear a fireproof jacket that does not meet SFI spec if your car is running in the 16s, since the jacket itself is not required for that car.

All this per the NHRA, when I called and asked for clarification on some other rules regarding 9 second cars.

That does not mean that the bars cannot be additionally tabbed to body structure, however.
This pic shows the attachment of the main hoop to the 'c' pillar where the reinforcement for optional shoulder harnesses makes the pillar stronger. Tabbing the main hoop here on both sides adds a lot of strength to the Elco roof.
This pic shows the prototyping of the attaching plate at the time I was building and bending the main structure.


And I thought I could get away from law school by hiding behind my welder in the garage. Only to find more rules, and more rules, and more rules, and ....

Eric
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Inside every GTO is a Chevelle trying to come out
1966 El Camino with a 1964 GTO body.
Blueprinted street/strip 572, sequential injection, TKO-600, Dana 60, cryo'd 1350s, Global West w/ coil-overs, 12" 4WDB, intense mods to the Elco frame, no music, hardcore 'Nam-era 1971 style Two Lane Blacktop car. Lions/OCIR veteran.

Last edited by Surfin' 66; Sep 15th, 08 at 5:30 PM.
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  #8  
Old Sep 15th, 08, 5:42 PM
Surfin' 66 Surfin' 66 is offline
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Default Re: Roll Cage/Bar pics?

General clearance between upper bends and interior roof structure:



An earlier and slightly better view of tabs taken while tacking the bar together, also showing the diagonal brace on the "wrong" side (need more clearance for noggin purposes).
Something else I learned: storage compartment managers don't like you welding or pulling your own 220v. They get a little antsy.

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Inside every GTO is a Chevelle trying to come out
1966 El Camino with a 1964 GTO body.
Blueprinted street/strip 572, sequential injection, TKO-600, Dana 60, cryo'd 1350s, Global West w/ coil-overs, 12" 4WDB, intense mods to the Elco frame, no music, hardcore 'Nam-era 1971 style Two Lane Blacktop car. Lions/OCIR veteran.
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  #9  
Old Sep 15th, 08, 6:08 PM
cuisinartvette cuisinartvette is offline
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Default Re: Roll Cage/Bar pics?

Always wondered about that, keep the pics coming. Considered doing a 3-4 point as my interior is stripped out but not into cutting holes in the florr and have to move soon. Eventually Id like one.
Looks tough.
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  #10  
Old Sep 15th, 08, 8:05 PM
65lkey 65lkey is offline
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Default Re: Roll Cage/Bar pics?

so how many points are required to run like say 11.49-10.99? If I were to cage my car i would not want to go through the rear window, which i've seen
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  #11  
Old Sep 15th, 08, 9:48 PM
Surfin' 66 Surfin' 66 is offline
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Default Re: Roll Cage/Bar pics?

An NHRA legal cage will have to penetrate the rear window, no way around it, due to requirements for certain height of the rear bars- basically the rear bars must attach to the main hoop very near the bend.

Also, what is not apparent in the pix I posted of my own car so far is that the main hoop is angled to be parallel with the body line of the 'C' pillar. This is not for style, it is for max interior room since this car also drives on the street every day.
I have my seats bolted directly to the floor very far back. Others who do not require this distance from the dash will have substantially more room to incorporate a well-thought-out bar or cage without impinging on comfort, accessibility, or interior usability.

I have not been able to find an NHRA prohibition against this, and there is no strength penalty to pay when used with a Halo bar and front down legs.

I will find my NHRA rule book and post the specs for different et/speed classes as they concern roll bar / roll cage specs.

It will have to be later in the week or this weekend, due to workload, but I will do it.

I will also post other, more informative pix.

Eric
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Inside every GTO is a Chevelle trying to come out
1966 El Camino with a 1964 GTO body.
Blueprinted street/strip 572, sequential injection, TKO-600, Dana 60, cryo'd 1350s, Global West w/ coil-overs, 12" 4WDB, intense mods to the Elco frame, no music, hardcore 'Nam-era 1971 style Two Lane Blacktop car. Lions/OCIR veteran.
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  #12  
Old Sep 15th, 08, 10:23 PM
65lkey 65lkey is offline
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Paul
 
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Default Re: Roll Cage/Bar pics?

So the cars pictured above wouldn't pass for 11.49 and quicker? Since they don't penetrate the window?
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  #13  
Old Sep 15th, 08, 11:12 PM
tlowe tlowe is offline
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Default Re: Roll Cage/Bar pics?

has anyone used chrome moly tubing? is it hard to bend? i also want to build a cage for safety in a second elco i have. strip only, but it is titled, you never know.
do all the joints need to be fully welded. if so how do you guys get the hard/hidden spots welded?

more pics please!!
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  #14  
Old Sep 16th, 08, 1:44 AM
Surfin' 66 Surfin' 66 is offline
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Default Re: Roll Cage/Bar pics?

I will post, as I said, current NHRA rules concerning construction, design, and mounting.
In the meantime, here is a quick summary of the 1995 rules, which are not current, but will give you an idea. This text is from an old magazine article, and should not be relied upon for any more than a brief idea.

Yes, all joints need to be fully welded, and the faster cars must be inspected for tube wall thickness and weld integrity.
You do not need a mandrel bender for roll cage tubing, due to the thickness of the material. It will normally bend without obvious crush areas, like muffler tubing does. The serious cages in truly fast machines will have to bear an NHRA inspection sticker to allow the car past tech.
Welding generally is not an issue as far as access to the entire circumference of the joint, since most of the time you will weld the bars in a strategic sequence, rather than just starting to weld wherever, and that will allow access to each joint. Other times, joints can be welded with removal of glass (not that big of a deal) or even during a roof replacement (I'm doing that with my own Elco). There's always a way.

Moly tubing bends as well as any other, of course being left to a pro who has the proper heavy duty equipment. Muffler benders will not usually work, although some racers have confessed to me in the past that it was a muffler shop who bent up the tubing for the bars or cages. Personally, I find that difficult to accept in an every day sense.

Eric

11.99
The classic four-point bar is no longer acceptable. The new standard is mild-steel tubing of at least .120-inch wall thickness (most chassis companies, like Art Morrison, use .134-inch wall tubing) that includes a forward-running side bar from the main hoop past the driver’s shoulder. This bar is only required on the driver’s side, but most systems include both sides for a six-point rollbar.

10.99
Cars running between 10.00 and 10.99 must have a rollcage unless the car has an unaltered firewall, floorpan and body (except for wheeltubs). This means if you have a street car with a stock floorpan and firewall but have tubbed it for bigger tires, all you need is a five-point rollbar until the car runs quicker than 10.00.


9.99
The cage must be constructed of mild-steel tubing at least 15/8 inch in diameter, with .120-inch wall thickness. It can also be chrome-moly tubing of .083-inch wall thickness with a total of eight attachment points. These eight points refer to the placement of the cage surrounding the driver, including the two rear support bars. NHRA does not require bars that run forward to the front suspension, although many cage designs include them. All cars running 9.99 or quicker must have the cage certified by NHRA and have the NHRA certification sticker attached to the cage.

These are not my cars and I did not take the pictures. They were sent to me some time ago, and show various details which are also found in my own car's cage design.



__________________
Inside every GTO is a Chevelle trying to come out
1966 El Camino with a 1964 GTO body.
Blueprinted street/strip 572, sequential injection, TKO-600, Dana 60, cryo'd 1350s, Global West w/ coil-overs, 12" 4WDB, intense mods to the Elco frame, no music, hardcore 'Nam-era 1971 style Two Lane Blacktop car. Lions/OCIR veteran.
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  #15  
Old Sep 16th, 08, 2:12 AM
Surfin' 66 Surfin' 66 is offline
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Default Re: Roll Cage/Bar pics?

I was about to post pix of:

A) Roll bar rear tubes not penetrating the window yet in at least one of the cars may be NHRA legal, and....

B) Installation in a plated floorpan situation w/o penetration to the frame in a substantial and very strong-looking design similar to my own first-design.

However, my image hosting server is down for maintenance, so I will have to post these interesting pix tomorrow PM.

Sorry

Eric
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Inside every GTO is a Chevelle trying to come out
1966 El Camino with a 1964 GTO body.
Blueprinted street/strip 572, sequential injection, TKO-600, Dana 60, cryo'd 1350s, Global West w/ coil-overs, 12" 4WDB, intense mods to the Elco frame, no music, hardcore 'Nam-era 1971 style Two Lane Blacktop car. Lions/OCIR veteran.
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