[quijote]

Hi All,

I'm looking for a full featured, all included, suspension kit

First, i saw an airride solution, too expensive for me, and not really what i'm looking ...i'll never change the suspension height at real time...

Second, there is an entire kit provided by hotchkiss. That's on the US$1500 (+-) ... (full TVS system, the one for small block)

Third, i can't find the price of a full featured Global West but i can calculate it joining every needed part... but i don't have enough technical knowledge to compare it with the Hotchkiss solution... so even if the budget should be enough... what's better / why ? or just in which sense they are different ?

i expect to buy an entire suspension kit, for less than US$2.000...
finally i think my options are that : hotchkiss / global west ...

what do you think ?
the car is intended to be used in a way that can provide the better confort / drivability you can get for a car that is intended for a street... even if i like the speed i know this will not be a race car...

Thanks in advance !
Arturo.-

[cobaltchev67]

Check out SC&C(Savitske Classic & Custom), guys rave about them on this site....you can also get their parts through another vendor at Summit Racing, just can't remember the name. Search other posts, or maybe somebody else will chime in. Great products from what I have read, and excellent engineering.

[sinned]

Hotchkis is OK at best, GW's technology dates back to around 1973 or so. They haven't made any advances at in the last 20 years.

I would have no problem spending money at SC&C and having a really nice package. Marcus has developed some up-to-date pieces and is now selling the ATS spindle which is the only bolt on unit that corrects the ailments of the "A" body.

[rak1]

I have a globel west package with Q1's coilovers, fully adjustable, two inch drop, the hole works. I haven't tried it yet since my Camino is waiting for a drivetrain but I do have pictures in My Photos. Everything looks like new technology and is very nice but it did cost some coin...

[vrooom3440]

Generally Hotchkis and Global West are an inefficient application of money, the investment is large in proportion to the benefits obtained.

I can also understand the desire for a complete "kit" too. Shopping and shipping foreign can make things harder and motivate a desire for a single vendor.

I would think that a call to Mark at SC&C (contact info available all over this site via a search) could get you A) educated on what the trade offs are and B) pretty close to a complete kit from a single vendor. On the latter I would not be surprised if they could get and bundle all the bits you would need. My impression is that over time they have been adding product lines to the point they can cover most of the parts already.

I think that approach will provide your best return on investment.

[Derek69SS]

Originally Posted by vrooom3440

Generally Hotchkis and Global West are an inefficient application of money, the investment is large in proportion to the benefits obtained.

They need to pay for all that advertising hype somehow.

I'll throw in another vote for SC&C (www.scandc.com). Since you're overseas, I'd suggest emailing your questions to get a good idea of what you want before calling... Mark tends to talk a lot (not a bad thing, there's a lot to be said about A-body suspensions) and I suspect international phone calls get expensive fast.

Hotchkis does only one thing well, and that is their spring/shock packages. The rest of their stuff is overpriced, and some of it is pure junk (rear arms for example) IMHO.

Global west does bushings well... everything else, again, is overpriced for what you get.

[Tony71502]

Whats wrong with hotchkis control arms? I have them and I cant really say anything bad about them. The TVS has done well for me.

[vern]

I would like to hear from some people who have done these packages to their cars and hear their driving impressions.It would be really helpful if someone(like a magazine)could do acomparison of the different companies.In 1989 I bought a tall spindle conversion kit from H.O. Racing and some really big swaybars,a set of boxed rear control arms,and global west del-alum bushings for the front control arms,and global west springs.The car handled great.Now it is going into its second rein-car-nation and I would love to have some input on which course to follow when it comes to the suspension.

[vrooom3440]

Part of the challenge there is it is very difficult for a magazine to include ALL the players and to avoid bias. For example SC&C has some of the best stuff out there for A-body cars and I doubt they have EVER been featured in a magazine. But then Hotchkis and Global West have been featured many times and have inferior products.

Unfortunately you have to learn about how suspension works and then read and research all the options. And still you might not find the optimum parts... without also searching and consulting forums like this one to find the diamonds.

It is not that Hotchkis nor Global West sell bad products for the most part, they just sell products that are high on the show factor and low on the technical improvement scale. And they tend to be premium priced. If that is what you are after then go for it.

[Tony71502]

Well heres a review to start.

I started out with a stock Malibu. No rear sway bar, non-boxed rear arms(complete with shot bushings), squishy air shocks, stock front control arms, undersized front sway bar.

Currently Im running the Hotchkis TVS package(boxed rear arms, huge hollow sway bars, rear arm frame reinforcements, and 1 inch lower springs.
I also have KYB gas-a-just shocks in the front and rear. And to finish that off I have global west front tubular A-arms.

Unfortunately I cant install the global west upper A-arms because Im running drum brakes and it just doesn't work without disc spindles.

The handling increase was absolutely amazing. There is no body roll at all and I can take turns at least twice as fast as the bouncy setup I had before.

I do however plan on replacing the KYB shocks with Bilstiens in the rear and converting the front to coilovers (Bilstiens until then).



Quick question to anyone that knows.... I would really like to put ladder bars on my car(with the rear sway bar). Where do the ladder bars connect to the car body? At the lower control arm mount? I know they weld to the axle tubes. And as long as I can get that to clear the sway bar it should be alright.

[Rich-L79]

Originally Posted by Tony71502

Quick question to anyone that knows.... I would really like to put ladder bars on my car(with the rear sway bar). Where do the ladder bars connect to the car body? At the lower control arm mount? I know they weld to the axle tubes. And as long as I can get that to clear the sway bar it should be alright.

If you have any interest at all in the car's handling you won't let ladder bars within 50 feet of your car. They will utterly ruin the handling of your car. If you insist on installing ladder bars I wouldn't worry about retaining the rear sway bar since it will have absolutely no effect on the suspension once ladder bars are installed.

[sinned]

Originally Posted by Tony71502

Well heres a review to start.

I started out with a stock Malibu. No rear sway bar, non-boxed rear arms(complete with shot bushings), squishy air shocks, stock front control arms, undersized front sway bar.

Currently Im running the Hotchkis TVS package(boxed rear arms, huge hollow sway bars, rear arm frame reinforcements, and 1 inch lower springs.
I also have KYB gas-a-just shocks in the front and rear. And to finish that off I have global west front tubular A-arms.

Unfortunately I cant install the global west upper A-arms because Im running drum brakes and it just doesn't work without disc spindles.

The handling increase was absolutely amazing. There is no body roll at all and I can take turns at least twice as fast as the bouncy setup I had before.

I do however plan on replacing the KYB shocks with Bilstiens in the rear and converting the front to coilovers (Bilstiens until then).



Quick question to anyone that knows.... I would really like to put ladder bars on my car(with the rear sway bar). Where do the ladder bars connect to the car body? At the lower control arm mount? I know they weld to the axle tubes. And as long as I can get that to clear the sway bar it should be alright.

This is exactly why reviews don't work...they are based on the individuals experience. Most people have never a driven a fast Z06 or an 8-sereis BMW (hell even an M-series BMW), or a Viper (though I don't care for their lift at higher speeds).

So what are they basing their review off of? In the above, Tony claims that he basically went from 30 year old stock to poly bushings in the rear, KYB junk shocks, and decent springs and the handling is now amazing. With the bind the rear is experiencing combined with the gianormously overly-stiff shocks this thing probably handles like a dump truck. But to Tony, its great (no offense to Tony). It is very difficult to get real world reviews without having experienced non-biased (no magazine writers where ads pay their salaries) giving them. The best you can hope for is to get advice from people who know what the hell they are talking about and are not trying to sell you something or promote a particular brand for benefit (ie. magazines). I am somewhat guilty of plugging Marcus, but that is because I have years of back-and-forth with him (not necessarily always agreeing with him) and at least I know I am referring people to someone who has a clue as to what they are talking about and can help them obtain parts that will actually work.

But hey, Hotchkis and GW parts LOOK pretty so that counts for something right?

If you want real world, I can tell you this. When I started out in the “A” body world, waaaay before SC&C or even Hotchkis existed it was HO Racing and GW. I bought into the light spring/big bar/tall spindle theory and went out to the track. You ever watch in-car cams on NASCAR when they are talking ‘bout the driver fighting the car at 200MPH and you see him sawing at the wheel just to keep her straight…that is what I looked like at 45MPH.

Then I got a clue and some edumacation and learned a little about suspension kinematics. What I ended up with after thousands of dollars in wasted parts of trial and error was not too far off from what Marcus sells using the ATS upright and his combination of springs/shocks/sta-bars, and it works like a mother-f&%^er.

/rant-off

Give Tony a break, ladder bars work and look cool……..


On cars with straight axles and Goodyear front-runners.

[Derek69SS]

Originally Posted by Tony71502

Whats wrong with hotchkis control arms? I have them and I cant really say anything bad about them. The TVS has done well for me.

Their fronts aren't bad, except for the price. Poly bushings aren't that great, but they work OK up front.

Their rears are junk (along with any other manufacturer making a similar product)... rigid arms with poly bushings bind up all movement of the rear suspension.

[Tony71502]

Ehh well i guess im not considering ladder bars anymore.

When i said amazing handling, I guess i should have added that thats in comparison to stock. Im not trying to compare my chevelle with a car built for high speed in the late 90s or early 2000s. It doesnt handle like a dump, what Im saying is that before I could take a "15 mph" rated turn at like 20 bouncing all over. And now I can take the same turn doing a good 35-40 with barely any body roll. I havent really pushed my car to the point of losing control to actually know its limits because im not that stupid on the street. And there are no good courses around here.

Well sorry for answering the call to people with hotchkis and global west but I like it.

[Alan]

First: Hotchkis and GW make quality parts.
Second: I don't concider them to be the best for handling.
Third: I bet most of those who installed Hotchkis or GW parts years ago (they were about the only game in town) and are interested in improving their car's handling, wouldn't buy Hotchkis or GW again.

Why spend the hundreds, even thousands of dollars guys like sinned, Gokou, or even lowly me spent? You can buy better engineered parts that will run circles around Hotchkis and GW parts for nearly the same price (maybe even less)?

I'd call SC&C. I know if I had the money to swap out my b-body spindle setup, that's where I'd buy from.

Magazines rarely, if ever, give a good review (money talks, you know the rest). Off-topic, but I remember when my brother used to test mountain bikes for Mountain Bike Action. The test rider's comments never made the article. And the bikes he said were terrible, had glowing reviews in the magazine article. Magazines loose their back-bones when they are funded by companies that have product reviews in the magazine. The magazines (IMO) will always keep a neutral position. There's were people's experiences here or other forums give you the REAL story