Tig welding quarter patch help?? - Chevelle Tech
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  #1  
Old Jan 28th, 08, 7:26 PM
B64 B64 is offline
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Default Tig welding quarter patch help??

Iím working on my 64SS quarter lip area. I cut a patch panel from a parts car to weld into the rusted area. After an extensive searching/reading session my first choice is to use the Tig/hammer welding method. I have a few questions up for discussion... or point me to the thread that has already answered them. Whatís the best way (meaning best way for hammer welding) to cut and fit the patch? Should the panels be fit as tight as possible (no gap)? Should the weld be quenched or cooled in any way or let to cool on its own? What type of filler rod to use? I was recommended this stuff for sheet metal http://www.airgas.com/browse/product...&WT.svl=250760 cuz you can use really low amperage. Or should I just use standard ER70?

Second choice would be to just mig butt-weld it... so same questions about cut, fit and gap or no gap. Quench? Also heard if done right mig will put less heat into the metal? In the long run is it worth the timesavings?
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  #2  
Old Jan 28th, 08, 7:50 PM
sevt_chevelle sevt_chevelle is offline
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Eric
 
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Default Re: Tig welding quarter patch help??

Quote:
Originally Posted by B64 View Post
Iím working on my 64SS quarter lip area. I cut a patch panel from a parts car to weld into the rusted area. After an extensive searching/reading session my first choice is to use the Tig/hammer welding method. I have a few questions up for discussion... or point me to the thread that has already answered them. Whatís the best way (meaning best way for hammer welding) to cut and fit the patch? Should the panels be fit as tight as possible (no gap)? Should the weld be quenched or cooled in any way or let to cool on its own? What type of filler rod to use? I was recommended this stuff for sheet metal http://www.airgas.com/browse/product...&WT.svl=250760 cuz you can use really low amperage. Or should I just use standard ER70?

Second choice would be to just mig butt-weld it... so same questions about cut, fit and gap or no gap. Quench? Also heard if done right mig will put less heat into the metal? In the long run is it worth the timesavings?

First off,
A tight butt weld with NO gap produces the least amount of warpage and also the easiest to weld. Plus a TIG likes tight panel fitment, if need be tack it with a MIG to get that tight fit then TIG.

Second,
NEVER NEVER NEVER cool the metal after welding!!!!
Allow the weld to cool on its own.

Most guys who TIG sheet metal use .023 wire right out of the MIG welder.
No point in using something fancy. One trick is to clamp one end in a clamp then chuck the other end in a drill. This will give the wire a slight twist making it rigid.

A mig introduces less heat into the panel, but the tig leaves almost no weld bead and also easier to metal finish. Time savings depend on how far you plan to make the metal work. Slapping it with mud then mig would be the route. But if you wanted to metal finish the joint with no to very little filler then tig is the route because its easier to accomplish with.

If you plan on hammering the joint then you WILL NEED to grind the weld bead down if you go with the MIG welder. You can not hammer on the weld bead without grinding, unlike a TIG or gas joint.
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  #3  
Old Jan 28th, 08, 7:54 PM
sevt_chevelle sevt_chevelle is offline
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Default Re: Tig welding quarter patch help??

By the way that welding wire, although some very cool stuff is NOT meant for your purpose. It is not meant for a structual joint like patch panels. Many new car makers use this type of rod on the roof and quarter panel seems just like GM used lead back in the 70's.
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  #4  
Old Jan 28th, 08, 8:43 PM
NOTHINBUT69s NOTHINBUT69s is offline
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Default Re: Tig welding quarter patch help??

When welding a patch panel in I tape a piece of copper tubing that I cut down the middle and flatten out to the back side of the seam that I'm welding and it asorb all the heat so theres no warpage butt welding is the best way IMO.
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  #5  
Old Jan 29th, 08, 8:09 PM
B64 B64 is offline
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Default Re: Tig welding quarter patch help??

Thanks for the advice! I want to get good at doing this sort of repair so Iím definitely going to metal finish it and see how strait I can get it without any filler. I'm still a little unsure of the best way to cut to get a precise fit? Was reading bout someone using offset sheet metal shears? Other options would be body saw or grinder with super thin cut off wheel. On more thing, what would be the best way to address where the horizontal line and vertical line meet... just a square corner... or?
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  #6  
Old Jan 29th, 08, 8:40 PM
Bktrcr6682 Bktrcr6682 is offline
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Default Re: Tig welding quarter patch help??

Just jump around making little takes until they are all connected so the metal gets to cool off.I believe JW Harris makes some type of mig wire that is a bit softer.I am also a big fan of the copper behind the metal.You can make the parts out of posterboard and transfer them to the metal so you will just have to do some minor tweaking for the final fit.
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  #7  
Old Jan 29th, 08, 10:58 PM
sevt_chevelle sevt_chevelle is offline
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Default Re: Tig welding quarter patch help??

A rounded off corner will yield less warpage then a 90 degree edge.
The 90 degree corner will concentrate the heat.

The best way to get a tight no gap is get the panels close then file them down til they fit with no gap. A cut off wheel will not make for a no gap joint. Tinsnips is another good tool.

Yes copper behind the joint is a good tool, but it doesn't cure the warpage you will STILL need to address the shrinking afterwords. In case you didn't know but welding causes the metal to shrink to decrease its surface area.
When you weld and get warpage the ONLY and ONLY damage or warpage is the weld seem, that big ole oil can 4" from the weld seem is NOT damage. Fix the damage caused from the shrinking right at the weld seem and that oil can will disappear.
You ONLY work the HAZ area or Heat Affected Zone, this area is the metal that has been turned blue from the heat. The metal in is blue area or HAZ area is the ONLY warped metal so ONLY work this metal, nothing else needs to be worked only the HAZ.
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  #8  
Old Jan 30th, 08, 11:29 PM
Mowerman5100 Mowerman5100 is offline
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Default Re: Tig welding quarter patch help??

If you are going to use a Tig, the rod they are talking about is called Everdur. This rod is great for panel repair ,low distortion and flows real well. Try this rod you will love it.
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  #9  
Old Jan 31st, 08, 1:04 AM
SSTodd SSTodd is offline
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Cool Re: Tig welding quarter patch help??

I have a question about the hammer welding, with gas welding the heat zone your talking about stays hot long enough to do the hammer and dolly work. But with tig on sheetmetal, and the amps turned down wouldn't the heat zone cool off too fast to work? Or is working the metal at the weld zone not temp. dependant? Guess I need to get that metal working book.
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  #10  
Old Jan 31st, 08, 9:09 AM
baddbob71 baddbob71 is offline
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Default Re: Tig welding quarter patch help??

In the old days they gas welded and did the hammer weld while the metal was red-this did two things: it flattened out the weld bead and also provided some stretch during the cool to compensate for the natural shrinkage that occurs. Workers that had the right skills could then metal finish the area with little problem. Working an some of the cars built in the 20's, 30's and 40's you can see some good examples of what this proceedure produced.
Eric's proceedure of hammering the HAZ after cool down is also to introduce some stretch into the area where the shrinkage occured to bring the metal back to it's normal shape and tension. With Mig and Tig the cool down happens too fast to do any hammer welding while hot so you're left with two choices: heat the area up with a torch and hammer weld or just work it cold in the HAZ area.
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  #11  
Old Jan 31st, 08, 10:37 AM
SSTodd SSTodd is offline
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Default Re: Tig welding quarter patch help??

thanks badbob71, that makes sense.
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  #12  
Old Mar 7th, 08, 12:57 PM
B64 B64 is offline
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Default Re: Tig welding quarter patch help??

Finally getting back to my project... And few more questions: What do I do where I donít have room to hammer the patch from behind? Would it be the same to put the dolly behind and hammer from the outside? One other thing got a dimple right above my cut line that is creating a "oil can" effect. Should I try to address this before I start tacking the panel in? or tack the panel in and the mess with the area when my tacks reach it? As far as the dent canít get behind it to hammer it out. I have a torch but not to savvy on heat shrinking. How would I go about heat shrinking it?
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  #13  
Old Mar 7th, 08, 1:57 PM
bjgoodrum bjgoodrum is offline
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Default Re: Tig welding quarter patch help??

if dent is not on body line, torch in a circle, outside in and cool with a rag and metal file
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  #14  
Old Mar 7th, 08, 3:36 PM
B64 B64 is offline
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Default Re: Tig welding quarter patch help??

ttt

What if it is on the body line?
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