Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain - Chevelle Tech
Chevelle Tech join team chevelle as a supporting member  
Chevelle Parts at SS396.com      
GROUND UP & SS396.com         
Official Sponsor of Team Chevelle
     

Auto Insurance

Chevelles.com is the premier Chevrolet Chevelle Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Performance Our High Performance area

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old Dec 2nd, 07, 1:32 AM
chevhell68 chevhell68 is offline
Lifetime Premium Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: arizona
Posts: 359
Default Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

Need some info here and I am sure all I will hear is how great this thing works for everyone. Cause that is just my luck with this stuff. I am trying to get this piece of sh!t on my car. 396 short water pump. Well first thing is No matter what, I can not get this thing to line up to get any on the other screws in. I wish the bottom holes just went all the way through the housing. I will probably drill and tap to the next size up on the bottom two holes. I run out of adjustment on the right side. It needs to be pulled down that direction to line the others up. I bottom out the threads before I can get it to line up. Second the need little adjustable thrust bearing hits the bolts mounting the cam on. I will just get smaller diameter bolts so it can clear no biggie there. Also I just bought a new 8" dampner and it warns of it possibly hitting the bolts holding the second cover on. I am sure I can figure that out if it does. Also looks like I will have to grind on either the water pump or the cover just a little to get it to clear. Great use of 140 bucks. On a much brighter note I got to meet Tom Mobley today. He cam over and helped me dial in my new camshaft. Very nice person and I appreciate the heck out of it. Even let me borrow some tools. Thanks again Tom.

Jacy
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old Dec 2nd, 07, 1:53 AM
Dave427 Dave427 is online now
Senior Tech Team
Dave 383 now
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ingersoll Ontario
Posts: 7,681
Default Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

So why the fancy cover? Are you running a roller cam? Be careful with that thrust plate I have seen that little bearing go south and filling a engine up with filings from the cover. I hate fancy stuff it either leaks, corrodes, or explodes.

Dave
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old Dec 2nd, 07, 2:13 AM
chevhell68 chevhell68 is offline
Lifetime Premium Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: arizona
Posts: 359
Default Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

Yes it is a Hyd. roller. I just hate it when something fits this horribly bad. Its like they didn't even try. Tomorrow should be interesting. I can just see it now I get it all on finally and then press the dampner on only to see that there is not way to make it work. Hurray!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old Dec 2nd, 07, 3:18 AM
Tom Mobley Tom Mobley is offline
mod since about forever, old now :)
TerribleTom II
 
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Glendale, Az
Posts: 21,381
Default Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

Jacy,

can you lay the timing ccover gasket on the cover and see how the holes line up? Or match it up with the old cover?

Call me on my cell Sunday morning, I may have another option. If I'm running the video mixer at church I might not answer at first, but I'll call back to whatever number is on the phone.
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old Dec 2nd, 07, 6:27 AM
Sandy Sandy is offline
Senior Tech Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,244
Default Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

Is this the nice polished Cloyes cover that has the cam access circular plate held with four allen head screws?

I had one on an engine that broke a timing chain. Unfortunately it damaged the cover too. But it fit perfectly.
__________________
1966 Beaumont SD
hydraulic flat tappet 461 12.33 at 109

1967 Camaro RS/SS
new car previous owner race gas 427 10.80 at 123
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old Dec 2nd, 07, 7:37 AM
forcd ind forcd ind is offline
Lifetime Premium Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: woodbine, md
Posts: 6,774
Default Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

i have used several with out a lot of trouble-first, i have had some interference with the waterpump on both sides, and had to grind
is the oil pan on the car? the front pan seal makes it hard to push down on the cover to line up with the locating pins (i have heard of people rem them, but i dont)
are you mtg. it w/o the center section first?
if you are using one of those locking plates on the cam gear, some times the hole in the center is not big enough for the thrust bearing to go thru-i believe they tell you to set it up then install the o-ring for the center cover, for ease of ck'ing
the biggest problen i had was reusing the cover, trying to get the locking screw out to re adjust
good luck
__________________
when your credit cards are maxed, have the limits raised
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old Dec 2nd, 07, 8:02 AM
zdld17 zdld17 is offline
Tech Team
Don
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Two Dog Town, Tx
Posts: 257
Default Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

Hate to hear this , this is my favorite cover on my sbc but I have the rigid aluminum. I have the Quick button cover.
http://www.cloyes.com/HighPerformanc...S/Default.aspx
I also use the hex-ajust timing set that has the encapusulated roller bearing. With the button bearing properly adjusted, this canned roller bearing will not come out as its recessed into the back of the gear and loaded with the button bearing. Cover button bearing has always fitted right into the timing gear hole but you have to use small shouldered bolts as the gear kit comes with 3 5/16 x 1" allen head bolts to retain cam to gear. If you use anything else, the bolt head or shoulders will interfear.
As for the cam to block thrust bearing, this is not the same as the older Torrington bearing but like it as its encased with too hi wear material sides. I have used these on two of my motors and after many miles cruising, no issues.
As for the cover not fitting, unless there is a mistake in drilling the cover, it always just popped on but if you are trying to do this without the front of the pan off or dropped, you will have problems, more so with the one piece pan gasket as the big lip needs to fit up into the cover grove.
I have never used one on a bbc with a short water pump, I know the back of the pump may interfere with the pump rear cover bolts.

These are good covers when running retro roller applications. Another option would be to install a late model type thrust bearing where the front cam plate retains the cam.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old Dec 2nd, 07, 9:14 AM
Big James 4XL Big James 4XL is offline
Lifetime Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Columbia SC
Posts: 2,609
Default Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

I had to clearance it a bit around the water pump on mine too but once I did that it fit perfect!
__________________
ACES member# 5093
Elcaminos are special!
I'd rather walk around with a Chevrolet hubcap in my hand than drive a Ford


Ol Paint Now livin large with a new owner in Texas
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9  
Old Dec 2nd, 07, 9:33 AM
steveracer33 steveracer33 is offline
Tech Team
Steve
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: utah
Posts: 361
Default Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

i have one on my BB that i have not fired yet, but i had to grind some of the cover edges by the water pump inlet outlet ports and i ground some material on the water pump so it would fit. Fit to the block was fine, here i thought it was just me,,,, sounds like they need to do some more R&D
__________________
Black 69 SS Chevelle 496-T400/3:55
Black 69 Chevelle prostreet ( in work for 23 yrs!)
Blue 1965 Pontiac Lemans (future Protouring car)
Blue 1996 CC dually 2wd 5/7 drop
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10  
Old Dec 2nd, 07, 10:45 AM
chevhell68 chevhell68 is offline
Lifetime Premium Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: arizona
Posts: 359
Default Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

Well I can get bolts for the cam gear no problem. I have Toms grinder so operating will not be a problem. I will need to check the holes compared to the other one I took off. It gets to were it needs about a 1/16 of an inch to line the holes up, but I do have a one piece oil pan and need to be able to get a few more turns on it to pull it down on the right side. That is why I think I will just drill it out and all the way through so I can turn as much as I need to to line it up. Thanks, they need to fix this thing. It is way overkill, I am sure they can let some material go in a few spots. Thanks again. I will be calling ya later Tom.

Jacy
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11  
Old Dec 2nd, 07, 11:13 AM
CDN SS CDN SS is offline
Gold Member
Bill
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Winnipeg MB. Canada
Posts: 6,595
Default Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

I agree with Tom if it does not align with the gasket send it back ...I have had 2 on bb's never a problem ,always used the Cloyes hex a just chain set so no bearing issues
...I have never used a stock water pump with one always Stewart water pumps so no clearance issues ........ and of course assume you installing with pan off ......
__________________
66 CDN Malibu SS A51,L34,M20 Aztec Bronze
Now 439ci Straub Solid Roller Brodix RR ,Tremec by Liberty
10.97/ 124.31 1.41 60ft

Crusin / Track video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhvDGOO4JAI

Engine
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12  
Old Dec 2nd, 07, 12:52 PM
Wolfplace Wolfplace is offline
Lifetime Premium Member
Mike
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Mendocino County, Northern CA
Posts: 11,938
Default Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

Jacy,
I have used a lot of these covers over the years both big & small block & never had an issue with the way it fit the block??
As for the water pump, yes most short water pumps will hit but it has never been a big deal I am used to "bolt on" aftermarket parts so I just deal with them as the need arises.

On the cover to block, just use the gasket as a template
If the gasket lines up with the block & it lines up with the cover you are doing something wrong

You do still have the two alignment pins in the front of the block right?
And if your pan is in the way it is not the fault of the cover, you need to get the pan down first or it will be a complete bitch to install the cover

DO NOT BE DRILLING THE BOLT HOLES IN THE COVER TO MAKE IT LINE UP
It has to be centered on the crank or the front seal will leak big time.

Now if you have the alignment dowels in the block & the bolt holes do not line up you may have a defective cover & you need to send it back as you have not way of knowing what is off
If you just make it fit you may well end up with a huge oil leak at the seal.
__________________
Mike (Wolfplace)
VISIT US AT
+4axis CNC block machining+
================================
Welcome to the internet,,, "Experts" made daily
===
"Life is tough.,, Life is even tougher if you're stupid."
----John Wayne----

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13  
Old Dec 4th, 07, 5:10 PM
chevhell68 chevhell68 is offline
Lifetime Premium Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: arizona
Posts: 359
Default Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

OK here is what went down. It was dark and I could not see that the power steering bracket was in the way so I had to grind on the cover in that area then it fit and lined up fine with all the holes. Then I Matched it to the original cover I took off and I ground the shoulders that stick out on the cover closest to the water pump so it matched the original cover and it fit fine.

Then problem two, the short water pump. The bolts on the back were hitting the cover and the bolts on the center piece of the cover were hitting the back of the water pump. Bought some short allen headed bolts for the back of the water pump and they were still a little bit long. After quit a bit of grinding on all these bolts it finally all fits. Setting the cam button is frigging easy as hell. Almost worth all the pain in the ass it took to use the cover. Now for any one who has this same set up and like me amd for some reason decides they need a 8" harmonic balancer, the only problem I ran into is it just about hits the bottom of my stewart stage 2 or 3 water pump. Which ever one is still the stock appearing unit. So I had to do some grinding on the water pump and have about 1/16" of clearance now. Hopefully it is enough. This is a 1968 396 with a short water pump. Also the Pioneer hi. Po. Balancer I used is not allowing my H2O pulley to line up quite right. I know because my power steering used to be way off and now it is allmost straight and now the H2O is off. Not to bad though. Yes the balancer is all the way on. I already broke Toms installer making sure of that. It was a well made and very strong tool too. Sorry again Tom.

Thanks.

Jacy
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply
Chevelle Tech > General Tech Area > Performance      Current Topic: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain
Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Chevelle Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address. Note, you will be sent a confirmation request to this address.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:55 AM.


Is there a site like this for?    El Caminos Camaros Novas Impalas GTO Chevy Punch All Chevys

2009 Team Chevelle - AutoForums