Morel Lifters - Chevelle Tech
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  #1  
Old Oct 21st, 07, 3:04 AM
Tokyo Torquer Tokyo Torquer is offline
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Mike
 
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Default Morel Lifters

With the kind assistance of Mike Kewis and Chris Straub, I installed some Morel hydraulic roller lifters to replace the comps with the intention of increasing my seat pressure to address the valve float problem I was having.

Comparing the the Morels vs. Comps, they both appear well made and I never had any apparent problems with the Comp lifters. They still look brand knew and the internals and rollers are still nice and tight.

Using the Morel HR lifters and the "enhanced" version of the Pacaloy Beehives from Lunati, I was able to increase my seat pressure from 140-145# to 175-180# on the intakes, while still being able to keep my open pressure to about the same ~370#. The exhausts I set at a lower seat pressure... at about 150#.

I also removed the rev kit this time. It never seemed to help anything and I was always suspicious of it. Even talked to one guy who claimed it even caused valve float on his engine... cured when he removed it. Must have been a harmonics thing.

The Morel lifters are slightly taller and the piston in the lifter body sits slightly higher so I had to get shorter push rods. Since I spent all that money just to avoid very occasional valve float (but not very nice when it happens even once on a blower motor!), I couldn't resist and changed my lower pulley to add another pound of boost. Hard to beleive I am running a full 15lbs of roots boost and 36 degrees total timing on pump gas, but I am with no problems. I did creep up on this level of boost from 10-11 pounds, originally. I have 7.6:1 static compression and a wide band AFR meter to help keep things in check, though.

I haven't had her past 6,000rpm at full boost yet, but I can make a few comments. There are a few things I don`t quite understand, but she is running good..

1. Compared to the Comps, the Morel lifters sure are noisey little buggers on start up. The Comps never, ever made a sound. The Morel's sound like the pre-load is out of adjustment until the engine warms up. The first few seconds at start up, the ticking is loud enough that I would pull the suckers if they stayed like that, but it is only for a few seconds and they steadily get quieter as the engine warms up and by the time the engine reaches operating temp (160 degrees +), I really can't hear anything. If you were to hold a Morel roller lifter in one hand and a Comp in the other and shake them like moracas, the Morel lifter bar rattles a bit more than the Comps, but I don't think that is the cause. Holding the two, you will also notice the Morel lifters are a bit heavier, too. I understand that the Morel Lifter bodies are machined steel, while the Comps are a casting. I guess that is what causes the noise until the Morel's warm up. I heard the LS1 guys say the same about the Morels making noise at start up.

2. The exhaust note sounds different just cruising around, and I can't think of a good reason why, but definitely different. Maybe something happened inside my flowmasters or something, but she is different. Odd.

3. I did seem to pick up some power and response even at low RPM.. more than could be expected from going from 14 to 15 pounds, I think. However, at this level of torque, it makes the car a little hard to cruise stop lights. I need to tickle the throttle below the 2000 rpm start of my power band. Once I get to 2000rpm and above, she is a light switch in applying the throttle. I guess that is from spinning the blower a little faster, but seems to be more than the last time I added a pound of boost. I need to let out the clutch easily and shift into 2nd at 1500 rpm, or otherwise it is a snap of the neck and some rubber on the street. Too much power and a stick shift starts to get old fast on the street. Not sure how the 800+ft lbs of torque BBC guys do it on the street with their TKO600's

The true test will be when I get her back to the track. I have never floated the valves (that I know of) at the track, but they say it starts happening well before you hear it, so maybe I will pick up a bunch of power on top. Who knows. Need to get back to the track before it closes for the winter.
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1973 RS Z28: 401ci Dart Little M, Littlefield 8-71 supercharger @14lbs boost, Callies Magnum crankshaft, Lunati Pro-Mod rods, JE pistons, 7.8:1 compression, AFR 227 Comp heads, T&D 1.6 shaft rockers. Reed solid FT cam (240/250@.050, .523/.542 lift, 112 LSA), QFT 750 carbs, Tremec TKO-500, Lemons headers, Moser 12 bolt, 33 spline axles & 3.42 gears
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  #2  
Old Oct 21st, 07, 8:04 AM
GRN69CHV GRN69CHV is offline
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Default Re: Morel Lifters

My guess on the noise at startup would be that the Morels are designed more like the Comp Magnum series. You made several chnages at once, so it is very hard to make fair comparisons. If you only changed the lifters, this would have been a fair comparison. But, you chnaged to Beehives and stepped up the seat pressure plus stepped up the boost. If your net gain was a solid 500 RPM or so, I would say it was well worth the money and work. But if you are at the same RPM (6000??), then is seems to me you didn't accomplish anything.

Just for comparison, I run the Comp 854's in a big block. Had terrible valve float. Swapped out my 130seat/325 rate springs and steel retainers to a Crower 434 rate spring set at 150 seat and installed with Ti retainers. Only other change was a change of oil from 15W-40 dino to 20W-50 syn. Keep in mind, these readings are with a factory tach that is most likely inaccurate, but with no other changes, I went from audible valve float at 5500-5600 to spinning to 6200-6300 - all readings on the same tach.

Regarding small blocks, we used to run the '94 350 LT1 motor to 6000 all the time. Motor had 45K on it when the car was sold, never been apart, just oil changes. This motor was ran to 6000+ quite a bit. Car had two previous owners that I know liked to drive fast. Even the LS series in my Avalanche will see 6000 (in first gear anyway - truck has 4.10's out back).
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  #3  
Old Oct 21st, 07, 9:31 AM
Tokyo Torquer Tokyo Torquer is offline
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Default Re: Morel Lifters

Not sure I quite follow you GRN69CHV.. I did not say that she wont rev past 6000rpm with the new set up, I only said I haven't taken her past 6000rpm yet. I want shift around 6250rpm and I have expectations that this new set up will take me to 6500rpm, if I needed it, since my old set up was good for 6200rpm. I also have titanium retainers, set the lifter pre-load with 1/4 turn and run 20-50 oil. I have the rev limiter set at 6400rpm. I doubt that the push rods, new springs, or an additional pound of boost is causing ticking at start up. It is quite clearly the lifters, and I have heard this about these lifters before. I do not have the limited travel lifters like the Comp Magnums. Anyway, I am expecting things will go well with the new set up, and was making a few observations to date. I was curious if anyone else had the same ticking at start up. Not really a big deal, but noticable compared to the Comps.
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1973 RS Z28: 401ci Dart Little M, Littlefield 8-71 supercharger @14lbs boost, Callies Magnum crankshaft, Lunati Pro-Mod rods, JE pistons, 7.8:1 compression, AFR 227 Comp heads, T&D 1.6 shaft rockers. Reed solid FT cam (240/250@.050, .523/.542 lift, 112 LSA), QFT 750 carbs, Tremec TKO-500, Lemons headers, Moser 12 bolt, 33 spline axles & 3.42 gears
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  #4  
Old Oct 21st, 07, 10:38 AM
GRN69CHV GRN69CHV is offline
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Default Re: Morel Lifters

Sorry, not meaning to be adversarial. It would have been nice to see the results of only a lifter change on performance. Good luck, keep us posted.
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  #5  
Old Oct 21st, 07, 10:37 PM
Tokyo Torquer Tokyo Torquer is offline
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Default Re: Morel Lifters

Oh, I know you meant to help GRN69CHV, sorry is my email may have come off differently, I just wanted to clarify, I am not having any problems except the noise of the cold lifters.

Drove around today.. made a few stops where the car had a chance to completly cool off. A crowd often gathers waiting for me to start it so they can hear the blower, and it's a little embarassing when I light off the engine and it sounds like a 250,000 mile v8 which never had the lifters adjusted. As soon as she is up to operating temps, she is completely silent. Hmmm.

mike
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1973 RS Z28: 401ci Dart Little M, Littlefield 8-71 supercharger @14lbs boost, Callies Magnum crankshaft, Lunati Pro-Mod rods, JE pistons, 7.8:1 compression, AFR 227 Comp heads, T&D 1.6 shaft rockers. Reed solid FT cam (240/250@.050, .523/.542 lift, 112 LSA), QFT 750 carbs, Tremec TKO-500, Lemons headers, Moser 12 bolt, 33 spline axles & 3.42 gears
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  #6  
Old Oct 22nd, 07, 2:25 AM
Tom Mobley Tom Mobley is offline
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Default Re: Morel Lifters

For what those things cost I'd be on the phone to them sooner, not later. I don't recall anybody else having this noise, but not that many guys have them either.
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  #7  
Old Oct 22nd, 07, 2:43 AM
Tokyo Torquer Tokyo Torquer is offline
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Default Re: Morel Lifters

I don't think there is anything wrong with the lifters, and I think it may come with the design. I would like to hear if anyone else here has noticed this, but not sure how many guys are running them. Doing an internet search, I did find 4 guys with the same thing with the Morels, one guy who put back in his comps because of it. A bunch of Corvette ZR-1 guys also seem to have this issue. They are completely quiet when they warm up, though.
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1973 RS Z28: 401ci Dart Little M, Littlefield 8-71 supercharger @14lbs boost, Callies Magnum crankshaft, Lunati Pro-Mod rods, JE pistons, 7.8:1 compression, AFR 227 Comp heads, T&D 1.6 shaft rockers. Reed solid FT cam (240/250@.050, .523/.542 lift, 112 LSA), QFT 750 carbs, Tremec TKO-500, Lemons headers, Moser 12 bolt, 33 spline axles & 3.42 gears
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  #8  
Old Oct 22nd, 07, 8:56 AM
427L88 427L88 is offline
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Gene
 
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Default Re: Morel Lifters

Quite lifters give you the signal to GIT IT ON!!!
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  #9  
Old Oct 22nd, 07, 9:02 AM
69bigblock 69bigblock is offline
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Default Re: Morel Lifters

I just started using them but so far I do not have this problem.
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  #10  
Old Oct 22nd, 07, 9:18 AM
Rick Dorion Rick Dorion is offline
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Default Re: Morel Lifters

I have them on my 410 and they tick when cold. Goes away when warm, too.
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  #11  
Old Oct 22nd, 07, 10:10 AM
cstraub cstraub is offline
 
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Default Re: Morel Lifters

The tolerance fit on the Morels is very tight and tolerance is held to +/-.0003". So with initial start up they will be a little noisy but quite down. Also there is a period of seating the check valve in the plunger assembly. In some applications this can take 200 to 600 miles of driving. After this the lifter, in some accounts, quieter then stock.
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  #12  
Old Oct 22nd, 07, 10:56 AM
Tokyo Torquer Tokyo Torquer is offline
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Mike
 
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Default Re: Morel Lifters

Thanks guys. I am using a 1/4 turn pre-load for max rpm like I used with my Comps and was wondering maybe these Morels might like 1/2 turn preload better.
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1973 RS Z28: 401ci Dart Little M, Littlefield 8-71 supercharger @14lbs boost, Callies Magnum crankshaft, Lunati Pro-Mod rods, JE pistons, 7.8:1 compression, AFR 227 Comp heads, T&D 1.6 shaft rockers. Reed solid FT cam (240/250@.050, .523/.542 lift, 112 LSA), QFT 750 carbs, Tremec TKO-500, Lemons headers, Moser 12 bolt, 33 spline axles & 3.42 gears
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  #13  
Old Oct 22nd, 07, 11:00 AM
cstraub cstraub is offline
 
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Default Re: Morel Lifters

.030 to .040" pre-load is what they like best.
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  #14  
Old Oct 22nd, 07, 12:59 PM
66ElkyBB 66ElkyBB is offline
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Default Re: Morel Lifters

I bought my Morels from Mike also and also used Chris' help. I installed them with a new Voodoo HR and Brodix RRs. I lashed them a half turn and they were noisy. Upon closer investigation by Mike and Chris, I learned the following: Lash grows by about .005 - .006 on my aluminum heads; my combo needs a minimum of .030 on HP applications, .040 - .060 on street and marine applications. One turn with 7/16-20 studs = .050. Soooo, I went with one full turn and lash should be about .045 when hot. Engine is quiet and runs very well with one full turn. Haven't tried running past 6000 rpm yet. If I was using this setup for just drags, I would use 3/4 turn to get about .0325.
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  #15  
Old Oct 22nd, 07, 1:04 PM
Tokyo Torquer Tokyo Torquer is offline
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Mike
 
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Default Re: Morel Lifters

Thanks for the input ElkyBB. Maybe I need another half turn of pre-load,as you suggest. I thought I would let the, break in as Chris suggested, first, and see what happens. How long have you had yours?
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1973 RS Z28: 401ci Dart Little M, Littlefield 8-71 supercharger @14lbs boost, Callies Magnum crankshaft, Lunati Pro-Mod rods, JE pistons, 7.8:1 compression, AFR 227 Comp heads, T&D 1.6 shaft rockers. Reed solid FT cam (240/250@.050, .523/.542 lift, 112 LSA), QFT 750 carbs, Tremec TKO-500, Lemons headers, Moser 12 bolt, 33 spline axles & 3.42 gears
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