[69-CHVL]

Actually, this is for my neighbor buddy who just got his Pontiac 400 back from the machine shop. He has a FT cam, that I fully greased up w/the moly lube. I adjusted all his valves, then slopped up some more on there. I and the machine shop told him to get the Diesel oil, which he did.

I have a HR cam thankfully, but I was running the 20w-50 in an attempt to control and oil burn issue. Not sure if I am going to contine the VR1 thing or just move to a regular 10w-30 at this point.

Thanks Scott.

[fabio]

does anybody have the zinc numbers on the crane break in lube? I notice it's a 8oz bottle instead of 4oz like eos.

[Wolfplace]

Originally Posted by fabio

does anybody have the zinc numbers on the crane break in lube? I notice it's a 8oz bottle instead of 4oz like eos.

=
Don't have the numbers but I buy EOS by the case & last I checked it was 16oz's & about $8 a bottle unless something has changed.

[fabio]

Originally Posted by Wolfplace

=
Don't have the numbers but I buy EOS by the case & last I checked it was 16oz's & about $8 a bottle unless something has changed.

thanks for the correction.

[BondoBob]

Have you seen any difference between solid lifter and hydraulic lifter break in problems? I'm thinking of running a solid in my 496 build. Maybe the clearance a solid has would allow more lube to stay on the lobe as opposed to the hyd lifter always touching the lobe.

[SWHEATON]

Check this out concerning the diesel oils,figures after i bought like 10 gals of the CI rated oil before the ZDDP/zinc lvls were decreased for 2007.
Below the info on diesel oils there is also some recent oil testing done on mult oils some of which were done in late 2006 & 1st qtr 2007 so you can see up to date info in some cases.

I found all this this on the intranet in an oil article.

Yes, but there is a catch. Many camshaft manufacturers recommend the use of diesel oils, many even name Shell Rotella T (CI-4 forumulation) as their preferred engine oil, along with some form of Zn and P additive, such as GM EOS. The only mention I have seen as to a reason not to use a diesel oil would be the lack of friction modifiers in diesel oils vs car oils or the fact that they may contain more of the Aryl ZDP rather than the Alkyl ZDP, but on the other side of the fence, usually friction modifiers are typically only used in very low viscosity motor oils that don't have the levels of Zn and P we are looking for.
The newest CJ-4 formulations are now limited in the amounts of Zn and P allowed, compared to the CI-4 forumations most users are familar with. I would recommend adding GM EOS to these newest CJ-4 oils as well because of this or keep to using CI-4 or CI-4 Plus oils instead. If the oil says CJ-4 even if it also lists CI-4 or CI-4+, more than likely it conforms to the new, lower levels. Thankfully, many petroleum companies have realized the need for two products, a separate CI-4 and a new CJ-4. Chevron Delo 400 is one such oil, easily found in most FLAPS. Just make sure to read the label!
Additionally, CI-4 diesel motor oils tend to have more detergents, and it has been determined in the SAE paper "Oil Development for Nascar" that overly detergent motor oils can block or "clean" the anti-wear films off of engine parts. Since low detergent packages increase the effectiveness of film formation, racing oils tend to have less agressive detergent packages, which is another reason many be to consider a racing oil versus a diesel oil for your engine.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
What motor oils had the 0.12% levels of zinc and phosphorus recommended?
The current API standard is SM, and calls for 0.06-0.08% Zn and P. The new CJ-4 standard which supercedes CI-4 calls for no more than 0.1% P. Some of these reformulations have new zinc-free anti-wear additives, but we still think a target of 0.12% is ideal for Zn and P levels as documented by the 1977 SAE Journal paper titled "Cam and Lifter Wear as Affected by Engine Oil ZDP Concentration and Type", which evaluated the performance of these oils in various fleets around the country over the span of many years.

Name/Vis/P(ppm)/Zn(ppm)/B(ppm)/Detergents(ppm)/API/Date/Type/Source

Amerilube/10w50/1254/1115/3001/SL/04/07/SYN/Blackstone
Amsoil AFL Euro 5w40 701 804 50 1452 SL 11/06 SYN Staveley
Amsoil HDEO 5w40 794 1081 2276 CJ-4 11/06 SYN Staveley
Amsoil Series 2000Racing20w50 1014 1123 12 3209 SM 02/07 SYN Blackstone
Amsoil V-Twin/MC 20w50 1193 1281 3564 SJ 11/05 SYN Staveley
Amsoil XL-7500 5w20 434 532 165 1601 SL 08/06 SEMI Blackstone
Amsoil XL-7500 5w20 334 1096 209 3061 SL 06/06 SEMI Staveley
Castrol Act Evo 20w50 765 1126 1724 SG 05/06 DINO Staveley
Castrol GPS 4STK MC2 20w50 767 1133 1544 SG 05/06 SYN Staveley
Castrol GTX 20w50 1157 1422 1848 SM 11/05 DINO Staveley
Castrol GTX High Mile 20w50 1248 1382 1848 SM 06/06 DINO Staveley
Castrol Syntec 5w40 786 918 1979 SL 09/06 SYN Blackstone
Castrol Syntec 5w50 921 914 58 2628 SM 11/05 SYN Staveley
Castrol Syntec Blend 20w50 937 916 1197 SM 03/07 SEMI Staveley
Castrol Tection Extra 15w40 965 1094 46 2461 CI-4 3/07 DINO Blackstone
Castrol TWS 10w60 425 1294 111 2383 SJ 06/06 SYN Staveley
Chevron Delo 400 15w40 1191 1622 3668 CI-4 06/06 DINO Staveley
Delvac 1 5w40 1390 1803 76 2583 CI-4 11/05 SYN Staveley
Delvac 1300 Super 15w40 1380 1702 78 2388 CI-4 11/05 DINO Staveley
Elf 505.01 VW 5w40 584 1092 2691 SL 05/06 SYN Staveley
Exxon Av Break-in oil 20w50 1 4 23 N/A 11/05 DINO Staveley
Exxon Av Oil 20w50 702 32 33 N/A 11/05 SEMI Staveley
Exxon Superflow 20w50 717 848 96 2650 SM 06/06 DINO Staveley
Ford Motorcraft 5w20 545 848 298 2005 SM 01/07 SEMI Staveley
Harley Davidson Syn3 20w50 1081 1182 264 1482 SG 11/05 SYN Staveley
Havoline 20w50 425 494 87 1049 SM 03/07 DINO Blackstone
Joe Gibbs Racing XP5 20w50 920 1231 504 SG 04/07 SEMI Blackstone
Kendal GT (Vintage) 20W50 1229 1415 2408 SE 11/05 DINO Blackstone
Kendall GT 20w50 904 1233 2885 SM 06/06 DINO Staveley
Kendall GT 10w30 582 872 278 1416 SM 11/05 SEMI Staveley
Kendall GT 10w40 598 897 282 1565 SM 11/05 SEMI Staveley
Lucas Hi Perf. Motor Oil 20w50 386 460 214 1079 SM 02/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 0w40 761 876 167 2630 SM 03/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 0w40 796 907 178 2650 SM 03/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 0w40 808 976 185 3256 SL 04/03 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 0w40 706 834 148 2246 SM 02/05 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 15w50 952 1030 41 2175 SM 03/07 SYN Staveley
Mobil 1 EP 15w50 1193 1376 228 2970 SL 04/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 EP 15w50 1062 1279 79 2485 SM 04/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 EP 15w50 906 1024 72 2071 SM 01/06 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 EP 15w50 1315 1428 226 2593 SL 11/05 SYN Staveley
Mobil 1 mx4t 10w40 1277 1460 188 2025 SG 03/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 mx4t 10w40 1411 1623 188 2248 SG 04/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 R 0w30 1399 1536 178 3051 SG 02/04 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 Super Syn 15w50 1343 1390 205 2601 SL 11/05 SYN Staveley
Mobil 1 Truck & SUV 5w40 1034 1247 51 2826 CI-4 04/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 V Twin 20w50 1329 1949 204 2130 SG 11/05 SYN Staveley
Mobil 5k Clean 10w40 660 1028 2895 SM 06/06 DINO Staveley
Mobil High Mile 10w40 527 1021 2844 SM 06/06 DINO Staveley
Motul 300V Competition 5w40 1317 1409 19 3273 SH 04/05 SYN Blackstone
Motul 300V Competition 15w50 1139 1130 20 2410 SH 05/05 SYN Blackstone
Motul 505.01 VW 5w40 973 1226 2830 SL 05/06 SYN Staveley
Motul Competition 15w50 1148 1327 11 2723 SH 05/06 SYN Staveley
Motul Tekma Mega 15w40 1220 1737 145 3469 CI-4 05/06 DINO Staveley
Mystik 15w40 1130 1224 3104 CI-4 03/07 DINO Staveley
Mystik 10w50 700 799 2003 CI-4 03/07 SEMI Blackstone
Penn Grade 1 Racing 20w50 664 852 2094 SJ 04/07 SEMI Blackstone
Penn Grade 1 Racing 20w50 801 1058 2827 SJ 06/06 SEMI Staveley
Pennzoil 20w50 501 800 223 2062 SM 01/07 DINO Staveley
Quaker State Q Full Syn 5w50 923 908 1917 SM 11/05 SYN Staveley
Redline 15w50 924 1004 27 2287 SM 02/07 SYN Blackstone
Redline 10w40 1440 1872 3039 SL 11/05 SYN Staveley
Rotella 15w40 843 946 26 1881 CJ-4 03/07 DINO Blackstone
Rotella 15w40 996 1130 32 2054 CJ-4 04/07 DINO Staveley
Rotella 15w40 1278 1555 2946 CI-4 11/05 DINO Staveley
Rotella 5w40 1397 1552 2921 CI-4 11/05 SYN Staveley
Royal Purple 20w50 668 763 2034 SJ 02/07 SYN Blackstone
Royal Purple 20w50 1290 1337 3295 SJ 11/05 SYN Staveley
Royal Purple Max Cycle 10w40 4085 1222 2599 SJ 07/05 SYN Blackstone
Royal Purple Max Cycle 20w50 3179 1030 2142 SJ 04/07 SYN Blackstone
Royal Purple Max Cycle 20w50 3907 1458 2478 SJ 11/05 SYN Staveley
Royal Purple Racing 51 20w50 1285 1417 2639 SJ 11/05 SYN Staveley
Royal Purple XPR 10w40 1034 1741 2709 SJ 12/06 SYN Blackstone
Schaeffer 7000 Supreme 20w50 1249 1626 2451 SL 06/06 SEMI Staveley
Schaeffer 9000 Supreme 5w40 1113 1315 10 3126 SL 07/05 SYN Blackstone
Swepco 306 15w40 763 895 92 1732 CI-4 03/07 DINO Blackstone
Swepco 306 15w40 1238 1476 128 2464 CI-4 04/07 DINO Staveley
Torco SR-1 20w50 363 412 759 SG 03/07 SYN Blackstone
Torco SR-5 20w50 1072 830 10 1481 SG 02/07 SYN Blackstone
Torco T-4SR 20w50 1059 969 1293 SG 05/06 SYN Staveley
Torco TR-1 20w50 670 571 958 SG 03/07 SYN Blackstone
Torco V Series ST 20w50 1030 1286 2231 SG 05/06 SEMI Staveley
Valvoline All Fleet Plus 15w40 1110 1232 3559 CI-4 10/06 DINO Staveley
Valvoline Durablend 20w50 566 732 13 2606 SM 06/06 SEMI Staveley
Valvoline Max Life 20w50 691 879 17 2170 SM 11/05 DINO Staveley
Valvoline Prem. Blue 15w40 1314 1838 158 4329 CI-4 06/06 DINO Staveley
Valvoline Synpower 20w50 605 689 1786 SM 03/07 SYN Blackstone
Valvoline VR1 20w50 1085 1293 17 2242 SL 11/05 DINO Staveley
Valvoline VR-1 NSL 20w50 835 976 10 819 SL 03/07 DINO Blackstone
Valvoline VR-1 NSL 20w50 842 962 11 838 SL 03/07 SYN Blackstone
Bardahl No Leak/Smoke 53 4 0 11/05 O/A Staveley
Boron Motor Silk 116 0 05/06 O/A Staveley
CD-2 Maxx Detergent 1 7 2416 11/05 O/A Staveley
CMW Racing Concentrate 2292 1147 358 06/06 O/A Staveley
GM Cam Lifter Prelube 5710 5876 29004 01/07 O/A Blackstone
GM EOS Assembly Lube 5762 6221 8265 01/07 O/A Blackstone
Lucas Oil Stabilizer 36 13 0 01/07 O/A Staveley
Power Service Oil Extender 3567 4945 6394 11/05 O/A Staveley
Schaeffer Micron Moly 110 5 0 08/06 O/A Staveley
STP Blue 1704 2436 88 11/05 O/A Staveley
STP Red 2115 3932 901 11/05 O/A Staveley
Valvoline Max Life Protect 537 768 22 3871 11/05 O/A Staveley
Valvoline Synpower 356 551 650 11/05 O/A Staveley
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are the running averages for all the oils tested thusfar:
API P(ppm)Zn(ppm)B(ppm)Mo(ppm)Ca(ppm)Mg(ppm)Na(ppm)Tot al Detergents
SE-SJ 1301 1280 151 357 1936 293 214 2443
CI-4 1150 1374 83 80 2642 199 2840
SL 994 1182 133 273 2347 109 22 2479
CJ-4 819 1014 26 2075 7 2082
SM 770 939 127 122 2135 13 139 2287

[flywheel]

I just pulled my CC XE268 out of my 402BB tonite. Two lobes gone. Im going to try out one of the Voodoo cams now. Ive read this whole thread and didn't see any more on how to flush out the engine while still in the car? It's not at the end of the original post that I saw... I don't really want to pull this engine again.... Im hoping to take it to CB07. Any thoughts on this?

Rick

[SWHEATON]

RICK,check your msg in team chevelle,i sent you info your looking for.

Also,just curious how many miles were on the cam and what oil/additives/what cam breakin proceedures did you follow/and did you use the rec comp springs?

Scott

[flywheel]

This wasn't a new cam. Engine had been sitting for about 2 yrs. I started it back up with rotella oil and after about 5 minutes I noticed a water in oil leak. Shut it off and tightend my intake bolts more and changed the oil. All was good for about 19 miles. So, guess it was the water leak, then used 5-30w oil after that.....????
Anyother additives good to use? Marvel,STP,Rislon?
Got your message. Will be flushing tonite

Rick

[7521]

I've got a question. I'm installing a new cam and lifters in a small block. Should I use the stock rockers during cam break-in or can I use a new set of 1.6 roller tipped during cam break-in? It has stock springs and the cam is pretty mild, .444 lft and 204/214 @050.

[ChevelleSSJoe]

Hey Scott,

Great thread man!! I just recently saw it and have been reading through it all. I have a few questions for you on my rebuilt and new 396 BB which is in my 68 Camaro that I need to do a break-in within the next couple days...

The motor is a mild street type 396 BB motor with a New Comp Cams 268 Xtreme Energy Camshaft. The motor shop that rebuilt the motor recommends to use the Chevron Delo 15/40 Diesel oil to break-in the engine.

However, over the last few days, I have talked to about 3 different Comp Cams tech guys and they all had a different opinion on what to run...

The very First Comp Cam Tech told me to run the Shell Rotela T oil in a 15/40weight for the break-in with either the GM EOS or the Comp Cams Part # 159 oil additive.

The 2nd Comp Cam Tech I spoke to said to run the Valvloine VR1 in a Straight 50 weight oil for break in since it has the ZDDP additive. This second tech told me that the Valvoline VR1 oil instead of the Delo Diesel oil said that the Delo oil no longer has the anit-wear additives that it used to as of March, of 07. He told me that it was removed due to the new stricter emmissions diesel laws. The same tech also recommened running the Valvoilne VR1 20/50 oil for normal driving after the motor has been fully broken in. He also agreed on the GM EOS or Comp Oil additive # 159.
One of my questions is if a VR1 in a 50 weight is too thick for a motor break-in?

The last Comp Cam tech said to run the Chevron Delo Diesel oil in a 15/40 weight just as what my engine builder said with the EOS or Comp # 159...

As far as the oil filter, the motor came with a NAPA filter that the shop had already installed. Do you think that filter will work well for a proper break-in? Or do you recommend a different type of filter? The NAPA filter is a long style, not sure if it makes a difference between the longer or shorter stlye oil filters?

With all the different opinions about weight and brand from the Comp Cams Tech guys, Im in need of some help from guys like you who have much more experience.

After hearing my story, what would you recommend for me to do?

Thanks
-Joe

[SWHEATON]

Joe,dont use 50wt for breakin,i feel its too thick for best flow/crank through off for proper cam oiling on startup.

As for using the chevron or shell, both of those 15w-40 diesel oils are fine to use but try to find the older CI reated oil & not newer CJ rated oil. I say this because the older CI has more ZDDP for better cam/lifter protection then the newer CJ oil that has reuced ZDDP lvl's due to new 2007 epa/gov regs. But the Shells engineer i emailed stated the newer CJ rated oils still have just enough ZDDP in them to protect flat tappet cams .

Scott

[ChevelleSSJoe]

Originally Posted by SWHEATON

Joe,dont use 50wt for breakin,i feel its too thick for best flow/crank through off for proper cam oiling on startup.

As for using the chevron or shell, both of those 15w-40 diesel oils are fine to use but try to find the older CI reated oil & not newer CJ rated oil. I say this because the older CI has more ZDDP for better cam/lifter protection then the newer CJ oil that has reuced ZDDP lvl's due to new 2007 epa/gov regs. But the Shells engineer i emailed stated the newer CJ rated oils still have just enough ZDDP in them to protect flat tappet cams .

Scott

Scott, Thanks for the advice man. I will definately do the break-in with the 15/40 oil and the EOS additive.

One other thing that I was wondering is about after the break-in on the motor... I know it is best to change the oil right away after the motor has been run and broken in with fresh oil and a new filter. What Im wondering however is if it is a good idea or not to continue the use of the GM EOS Engine Oil Supplement upon regular oil changes.

What do you think about continuing the use of the EOS Oil additive from GM in future oil changes? I was planning on using the 20/50 Valvoline VR1 oil which has that ZDDP additive in it.

Thanks,
Joe

[Aaron]

I read this thread and used Scott's suggestions for cam break in. Everything went great during break in! I did go a alittle overboard. I used Rotella oil, bottle of EOS, bottle of Cranes Breakin Lube (came with cam), and a bottle of STP. Maybe to much, but hey. I had about 10 to 12 revolutions on the cam due to starter problem.

The only thing I did different from what Scott mentioned is that I did not allow the motor to get over 185*. I sat there with a hose and misted water on the rad and it never got over 185*.

I encourage everyone to read the thread in depth!

[SWHEATON]

Aaron,thanks for the credit on the cam breakin & oil info i sent you.

Just to keep the info correct i think you mis read or just plain forgot but getting over 180 deg f durring cam breakin is ok/expected . Especially when the motor is running & approx 2200-2500 rpm for 20-30 mins while sitting still ,180 deg f would be hard to to keep under thoses cond.

This is why i suggested having 2 20" box fans in front of car/radiator proped up on boxes going full blast into the grill /radiator for fresh/cooler air to help keep motor temps in check for motor & or cam breakin on 1st fireup.

Its when you get over approx 210+ durring cam breakin that i start to worry which was my point in the cam install info i sent you.

scott