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Big block chevy Hyd roller lifters

20K views 51 replies 23 participants last post by  steelcomp 
#1 ·
Ok so two years ago I did a cam and spring upgrade but broke a head car has been sitting since. Back then it was these Morel lifters that were the cats pajamas and now two years later it looks like maybe they aren't quite up to snuff? They are the 400 dollar set. Thought i had the good ones but alas I do not. Good news is they only have about 300 miles on em and I didnt find out the hard way they weren't the best for my application. Cam is a 235 240 .61 lift hyd roller in my 396. Well I also have a 496 going together and am waiting for a special order from mike AFR 290's ;) hell yeah. Putting them on my 396 while the other engine gets finished over the next couple months. So will the old lifters be fine for now seeing the track maybe three times before the 496 and bigger cam and of course better lifters? A few days and weekends of driving or are they really proven to not be strong enough for a somewhat fun cam like mine. Whats everyone running now adays for hyd roller? If I need to change then here comes the solid or hyd torment in my head lol Never ran solid and just dont know what Id be getting into as far as adjustment and what not. Anyway lets stick with the hyd roller for now ...... The new morels all I would need. can always do a solid another time and at least have the lifters ready to transfer over to the new engine soon.
 
#2 ·
Ok so two years ago I did a cam and spring upgrade but broke a head car has been sitting since. Back then it was these Morel lifters that were the cats pajamas and now two years later it looks like maybe they aren't quite up to snuff? They are the 400 dollar set. Thought i had the good ones but alas I do not. Good news is they only have about 300 miles on em and I didnt find out the hard way they weren't the best for my application. Cam is a 235 240 .61 lift hyd roller in my 396. Well I also have a 496 going together and am waiting for a special order from mike AFR 290's ;) hell yeah. Putting them on my 396 while the other engine gets finished over the next couple months. So will the old lifters be fine for now seeing the track maybe three times before the 496 and bigger cam and of course better lifters? A few days and weekends of driving or are they really proven to not be strong enough for a somewhat fun cam like mine. Whats everyone running now adays for hyd roller? If I need to change then here comes the solid or hyd torment in my head lol Never ran solid and just dont know what Id be getting into as far as adjustment and what not. Anyway lets stick with the hyd roller for now ...... The new morels all I would need. can always do a solid another time and at least have the lifters ready to transfer over to the new engine soon.
You will most likely get the usual internet BS "I have used xxx with no problem therefore they are just fine" crap
You are welcome to take this kind of advice
Or you can take the advice of people that have seen more than one set of lifters & or talk to people on a daily basis that actually know the facts ;)

My advice:
I would recommend you cut your losses now on the cheap lifters for this application
Might get lucky,,, might not
And the might not can get very very expensive
I would use either the good Morel's or the Crane hyd roller lifters
 
#8 ·
Yes they have a street lifter that is about $375
It is nothing but an upgraded stock type lifter with the small .700 roller & cast body

Morel never intended for this to be sold as a performance lifter & both Chris & myself have been doing our best to "get the word out" for years now because there were cam companies that were recommending this lifter in some insane applications,,

Apparently even most of the folks at this company have finally seen the light when it comes to a Rat with the spring pressures needed to control the valve train in a performance application,, or so I have heard & are now recommending the better lifter
 
#6 ·
depends on what you mean by "cheap" I guess. they have two different price levels of lifters.
actually they have 3 levels....the "cheap" lifters are simply their street lifters that are suggested for milder cams probably below 240 and 600....they are not cheap by street lifter standards. The main difference is in the bodies, wheels and bleed down rates...the Sportsman is their most common performance hyd lifter and they also have a ultra version that is a hyd in spirit only...;)
 
#9 ·
Have to get the dial calipers out and check the wheel as I dont see a part number on the lifter itself. I know that I did not pay 600 bucks two years ago as I did not have the play money then. So Im fairly sure Its going to be the street lifter and I am not taking a chance. Missed my car the last two years do not want to break it again!

Thanks guys
 
#10 · (Edited)
I think you can see the difference on the street serie the body goes over the wheel and on the sportsman theres openings so you can see the whole wheel. I can post pics later if you want.

Marcus
 
#11 · (Edited)
It all depends on how high are you spinning the mill. Hydraulic lifters in a BBC with that Heavy Valve train whether HFT or HR, by design and lower spring pressure, can not spin much above 6200rpm with out issues. Small & Mid cubed BBC's like to rev and should, in my opinion, have SFT or SR's, where as Big Cubed BBC's 496 and over are torque monsters below 6200rpm are more suited for HR's.

You can't run much more then 150/450psi springs with a HR where as 200/500psi is considered a relatively mild street application for SR's. Disregarding cam profile design for now but as the revs increase which spring is going to keep the lifter riding the lobes best and in the case of a HR not allow the lifter to pump up.

If you're shooting for 6500rpm with a BBC and running a HR cam you will have issues, in my opinion.
 
#20 ·
It all depends on how high are you spinning the mill. Hydraulic lifters in a BBC with that Heavy Valve train whether HFT or HR, by design and lower spring pressure, can not spin much above 6200rpm with out issues. Small & Mid cubed BBC's like to rev and should, in my opinion, have SFT or SR's, where as Big Cubed BBC's 496 and over are torque monsters below 6200rpm are more suited for HR's.

You can't run much more then 150/450psi springs with a HR where as 200/500psi is considered a relatively mild street application for SR's. Disregarding cam profile design for now but as the revs increase which spring is going to keep the lifter riding the lobes best and in the case of a HR not allow the lifter to pump up.

If you're shooting for 6500rpm with a BBC and running a HR cam you will have issues, in my opinion.
None of this is true.
 
#12 ·
the street roller lifters look just like oem rollers which have the wheel encapsulated but have the taller body to accomodate the link bars.The biggest cam you can use pretty much is the ZZ502 cam which has lobes designed for the smaller oem style wheel.
Chris Straub and Mike(Wolfplace) have been great getting all this info out there to us gearheads! :thumbsup:
 
#13 ·
I ran those lifters with a 241/249 .625 Lunati. Lucky I checked on them, they were coming apart, axles walking out. The full body, small wheel just won't cut it with an agressive cam. I got lucky. Got the good ones in there now.
 
#14 ·
The Street Morels are an encapsulated wheel. The body of lifter surrounds the wheel. These were designed to complete with the cheap lifters and used on OEM type up grade cams like the GM hot cam.

The Sportsman, my verbage for it, and the Ultra Pro lifters both have .750" wheels on the .842" body stuff and will take what you put under them. Either of these will run with over 200# seat pressure and 500# open load.
 
#32 ·
It's always good to buy your parts from people like Chris who actually design some of these parts and then use them in their own builds.It can save you a lot of money in the end.:thumbsup:

The Street Morels are an encapsulated wheel. The body of lifter surrounds the wheel. These were designed to complete with the cheap lifters and used on OEM type up grade cams like the GM hot cam.

The Sportsman, my verbage for it, and the Ultra Pro lifters both have .750" wheels on the .842" body stuff and will take what you put under them. Either of these will run with over 200# seat pressure and 500# open load.
 
#15 ·
Chris,

How come we dont have a rash of failures with the OE GM lifters with the encapsulated body? I ran the sh!t out of them along with some other guys I know w/o issue - ever. When I replaced the GM lifters with $$$ Cranes, I got no appreciable increase in performance, or quietness.
 
#16 ·
Vince,
Come down here and sit with me a week any your statement will change. When an OEM lifter fails guys dont' talk about it because it was an OEM lifter and they figure "well I should have replaced it" so they just bite the bullet and buy lifters.

The LS guys use to brag about the OEM stuff not failing. Well now with the cam profiles out there now I ship more LS lifters then I do BBC, 15 20 sets at a time to some customers.

As far as performance I don't think you will feel 8 or 9HP gain. I've seen it and have dyno sheet to say that it does happen. As far as noise each engine is different. Cam profile has alot to do with it. I've got some that say the Morel is noisier and I have some that say the Morel is quieter.
 
#25 ·
In all fairness, just a few yrs ago we ALL thought that BBC HR's sorta sucked about 6000. We talked about Ti retainers, beehives, etc. Ultimately, we just needed spring pressure and the better lifters were able to handle it - simple. I dont even have Ti retainers - just 175/450lbs of dual spring (solid roller springs actually) pressure, and she'll rev as far as the duration will allow.
 
#28 ·
I hope you`re not including me :noway: :D

Our BBC`s trap 6700-6800 RPM with regular std issue 854 Comp Cam lifters... the first one to do that and run 9`s was 5-6 years ago.
That`s with a 2.25" steel valve !
Ti ret`s yes..but we only used 140-160 lbs seat pressure too.
 
#27 ·
I will deff buy the good stuff then. Lots of great info. I have never had the motor on a Dyno but when I went to these lifters and beehive springs the motor was behaving very differently buzzing up to 6500or so when I would get some noise before at around 6k with the old federal mogul lifters and comp double springs I had.
 
#29 ·
I have learned a lot playing with these things in the last few years, things I assumed could not be done & even stated it a few times but I was wrong as evidenced by Steve's combo which kind of defied what I thought I knew,,,,,, then I had this long talk with Harold (actually more listening than talking :D)

It was not that the hyd roller wouldn't RPM,,, it had way more to do with the lobes I was trying to use than anything else,,,,,
I am up at least 500 RPM from just 3 years ago with nothing much besides different lobes that appear more RPM friendly,,, and a bit more spring on good lifters.
Get some of the weight out with lighter parts, valves, retainers & a smaller diameter spring & there is even more without a doubt

Cool stuff,,, over a half century with this stuff & still learning,, almost every day,, :cool:
About the time you think you have something pretty well figured out someone or someting will come along & (or at least should) humble you in a heartbeat :beers:
 
#34 ·
Both the Morels and Cranes have been stable for years, they just needed seat pressure. I've advocated this for years since the late 90's. I just had 2 within the last week worried about seat pressure on builds as the engine builders wanted lower spring pressure. I was aware of a Crane article and test that they did back some years ago, 2007, where they kept adding spring pressure to a BBC marine cam profile. Thanks to Chase Night and Mrs. Holley they were able to dig up the article and send it to me. If anyone wants a copy of it PM me your email.
 
#36 ·
Both the Morels and Cranes have been stable for years, they just needed seat pressure. I've advocated this for years since the late 90's. I just had 2 within the last week worried about seat pressure on builds as the engine builders wanted lower spring pressure. I was aware of a Crane article and test that they did back some years ago, 2007, where they kept adding spring pressure to a BBC marine cam profile. Thanks to Chase Night and Mrs. Holley they were able to dig up the article and send it to me. If anyone wants a copy of it PM me your email.

I copied this & asked if I could put it up as a sticky for hyd roller lifter info but it was deemed advertising for Crane so I will put it in here as an informational link if anyone wants to read it
Very good reading

Special thanks to Chase Knight & Chris for sharing

http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/50/505347/Crane_lifters_1-590.jpg

http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/50/505347/Crane_lifters_2-591.jpg
 
#35 ·
I will be gload when Morel comes out with there .904 HYD. lifters as I see to many guys putting new lifter in worn out lifter bores and not even checking the lifter bore clearance!!!

OEM lifters in the 502 marine application have to be changed at the magic 500 hours or you will have one break I have done a some repairs to lifter bores because of milaged out lifters.
 
#39 ·
I am running right at 185lbs on the seat and 470ish lbs open(when they were new) on my single springs on Morel lifters... It will pull hard/clean to 6400 (that's my rev chip). When we intially had less pressure, around 135/300 it would float valves around 6000.

I have had no issues with 185/470 on the Morels at all...been like that for about 4000 miles now. I do have good pushrods though.


My only complaint about the Morels is they are noisy little bastards when cold, regardless of preload settings and has nothing to do with spring pressure. I can live with it though.
 
#41 ·
Limits, within reason anyway. Oil systems are still a big issue, aeration will come into play, windage control applicable. Distinct advantage with increased lifter bore height in GevVI and similiar design blocks. At some point, possibly even longer valve heights may come into play allowing for reduction in PR angle?
 
#43 ·
I just got this note today. Looks like Mr. Kaase has been spending some serious Spintron time and found some serious RPM with a different lobe and pushrods.



http://www.mooregoodink.com/news/?p=3081


Neat stuff!

JIM
 
#51 ·
The lower street version has the part nr on the box #5374 used them in a 9.0:1 468 with edelbrock heads zz 502 cam 224 234@050 527 544 lift. Started it in a stand so didnt ran it much later sold it but sounded real nice very quiet valve train.

The upper is a set I bought late last year from Mike Lewis aka wolfplace for my 10.4:1 Brodix race rited 489 with a 242 248@050 621 616.
We decided to ship them to me without the box to keep shipping cost down so not 100% sure but maybe #4603? Contact Mike Lewis and he will help you out.

Marcus
 
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