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550 horse 454?

12K views 23 replies 15 participants last post by  pauls72 
#1 ·
I have a 1975 454 with a TH400, Edelbrock 2-0 performer intake, Holley 770 and I just picked up some 781's for $200, I was wondering if there is anyway I can get 550+ horsepower with the combo. I don't want to shoot nitrous or bore it out. I'm only 14, so I'm still learning, If there is any more specifics needed I can provide them. Budget is not a main focus but I'm trying not to go over $4500. What is the suggested lift/duration. It's going into a 69 El Camino. I'm looking to run High to mid 11's (if it's possible) All advice is GREATLY appreciated!
 
#2 ·
There is a lot more to it than just the engine. It's also about how effectively and efficiently you put the power to the ground. A dud for a torque converter with highway gears won't do you any good with that goal in mind. Everything mechanical aspect of the car comes into play. Suspension, rear axle, trans set up, etc.
 
#4 ·
I'm not an engine guru, but I don't believe you will hit that kind of power out of a stocker 454. You can build it to make good torque, but brute horsepower will take a healthy cam. To run a good size cam you are going to want more compression than that 8:1 long block would net. To get a true 500+ horsepower it's going to take some doing. If the 781's are done right with bigger valves, good valve job, and bowl blending they could more than likely get you there, but in the end you would need more compression and more cam.

I know 500 horsepower sounds like a nice round number, but the truth is even 400 horsepower is a lot of fun to drive. The baby 402 that's in the '70 will take you from sitting still to 100 miles per hour in short order. That's an estimated 400 horsepower engine, might even be less. To someone that isn't experienced with driving something like that even that little rat could get out of hand. I don't know you're driving history, so perhaps you've grown up with drag racing. At 14 we all wanted to go fast ,still do for that matter, but 500 real horsepower is no joke. The "500" horsepower engines you hear about at car shows all the time might be lucky to break 400, if that. I've heard guys say their engines were in that neighborhood, but when they talk about what they do at the track they MPH'd less than what the '70 runs.

The engine I'm building right now will be in the neighborhood of 550 horsepower. Could possibly be more. It's 13.2:1 compression (Far too high for pump gas), has a big(ish) solid lifter cam, and heads that don't really start coming online until 3,000+ RPM.

My advice would be to build the engine the way it is to get your feet wet. You'll be quite surprised as to how even a stock engine will run when it's tuned right.
 
#5 ·
Were looking to run a .520 lift and .280 duration and have bigger valves put in the heads. any other suggestions? I think its a short deck (pretty sure) and I know its a 4 bolt main>
 
#6 ·
Zach

The little .520" 280 Magnum will not get the job done. Nice friendly 400 horse street cam in a 454 however.

My combo puts out 500 horse based on its weight and track numbers, 70 Elky. Some refinement coming, performance numbers below as is the basic engine info. The carb was $100, Intake $100, used rotating assembly $300, solid lifters 2 used sets to get 8 good pair, I recollect the billet roller cam was $340, heads were $150 plus $600 in big valves, bowl work, etc. You get what you pay for in torque converters. I am pleased with the B&M 3000, lots of other good ones out there. Lightly beefed th350 should be replaced but it keeps surviving. Current 3.42 gears got me to 11.7s/mid 113s so do not discount 'street gears' entirely. Thoughtful suspension upgrades, drag radials, and patience to get all the things working well together.

here the pig is, near lane, ALL CHEVY DRAGS Bremerton 2011
left it in DRIVE, it short shifted at 4700rpm...needed to slow the vehicle down to run my pals in SPORTSMAN 12.0 and slower. Hit 12.02 here



Some advice
o 500 "REAL HORSE" is a lot of nuts in a big heavy El Camino. And it is at the end of street car status, more than this is race car territory

o street roller cam

o forget about gear drives and under hood bling so you can afford the roller cam

o good brakes ARE a requirement!
 
#8 ·
The cheapest way to get horsepower is with a lot of cubic inches.

Buy a stroker kit, 4.25" crank, rods and pistons are about $1500. Since you need to rebuild it anyway, the cost is not that much.

I think you should shoot for 500 hp, which is easy with a 496. A 230* flat tappet cam will get you 500 hp.

A small cam will stress your budget a lot less. You won't have to spend big bucks on the valvetrain and it will get reasonable gas mileage.
 
#9 ·
i ran a .629 lift Solid roller cam in a 468. was it 550 hp? doubt it, it was probably a bit less than that, but i will tell you you will have fun, and i had less than $3500 in the combo. i had the Keith Black pistons, stock rods with polished beams and arp rod bolts, stock cast crank, balanced bottom end assembly, 781 heads with 2.19/1.88" valves, Single plane Victor JR intake, 850HP Holley, Accel HEI, and this was in my 69 Camaro with built 700R4 and 3.90 gears....The throttle response was amazing. it would rev to the moon, idle like a pro stocker, and still get 10-12 mpg. (on highway) but make sure your block is good, check for align bore, make sure your lifter bores are good or you will wipe out a cam very quickly.
 
#10 ·
im currently building my 454 in hopes to get 550-625hp from it. It started off a budget build then that went out the window when I seen how much the good parts are that will last with that kind of power. Will have over 3,500 in the topend and another 700 ignition. Im not sure if im going to go stroker or just put a set of pistons in it to bring the compression up to around 10:0.1

Heads: edelbrock bare $1200
valves: ferrea 6000 $320
Springs: lunati or comp $100-200
Work on heads: $300-400 valve job mild port work
Rockers: Ultra pro comp xd 1.7 rockers $400
Cam: Lunati 299/304 612 612 hyd roller $325
Lifters: lunati lifters 72431-16 $600
push rods: $??
Dizzy: Mallory max fire $500
wires: Mallory pro side winders $80
coil: Mallory coil $60

There is plenty of budget build ups out there that might get you close.

409hp 454
http://www.powerblocktv.com/episodes/HP2009-12/454-budget-build

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_1207_chevrolet_454_blue_collar_build/
 
#11 ·
Hey Zach. You remind me of a young version of myself.:yes: I was working on a 70 when I was 14 as well, working like a dog, saving up my money, trying to go fast. You will find a bunch of good info and recommendations from some knowledgable members here. I will throw in my $.02 from my experiences. IMO, the right combonation of parts is key. You can throw big money at it, but if everything doesn't jive, you will be dissapointed. For instance, I built a stout SB early on with a rowdy camshaft, single plane, big carb, etc, and didn't have the funds left over for a decent stall and or gears. I put the stock converter back in, left the 2.73's in, and it was a slug. Remember, these cars are VERY heavy, and require a bunch of torque to get moving. As far as your BB build, here's what I would would do. They are getting hard to find, but if you can locate some early closed or semi-open chamber oval port heads(063 castings for instance), you can get a bump in compression. Perhaps sell your 781's or look for a trade. Forget about the single pattern 280 Comp, that is old news. If the budget allows, a hyd roller will be money well spent, but I know of many flat tappets that are still running strong. All of the BB heads have a poor exhaust port that can be "crutched" with some extra duration on that side, there are many threads on the subject. With a combo like this, the bigger valves won't help as much as you think. If the heads need to be completely rebuilt, you might as well do it at that time, but then the chambers need to be opened up to unshroud the bigger valves. Another option is the Edelbrock Hi-Compression heads if the budget is there, you could by them complete and bolt them on. The Performer 2-0 works good, and the Holley should be fine as well. As long as the TH400 is in good working order, it will hold up, just spend some money on the converter. Trust me, it will help get that barge out of the hole. I wouldn't get caught up in HP numbers or E.T.'s, just go for a good thought out combo that you can have fun with and whittle away at it as you go. Oh yeah, I'll end with this. Nitrous Oxide is a beautiful thing, don't be afraid of it. When used correctly and in moderation, it can make up for cubic inches.:thumbsup: Good luck with it!
 
#12 ·
I remember talking to a guy while racing at the Woodburn OR dragstrip about 12 years ago. He had a
'70 Chevelle SS 396 he bought without engine so he built a budget 454 he had from parts he had collected.
It had;
454 .030 cast flat tops
"290" casting heads with 2.08-1.72 valves and 3 angle valve job.
280 comp cam
Performer RPM with jetted 3310
TH400 2500 Hughes
3.55 posi and slicks
Open Hooker comp Headers 2"/3 1/2"

11.96@112ish
 
#13 ·
The killer for your current group of parts is the stock shortblock with 781 heads. 781's are a great head but the chambers are huge. Stock 454 truck motors usually have flat tops, that combo of 781's and flat tops will barely give you 8:1. As was suggested above, look for some early closed chamber heads from a 396 or 427 to help bump up compression. Or, put a set of domed pistons in your block and run the 781's.


Sent from AutoGuide.com App
 
#14 ·
Mike,

Sounds like my Super Budget 454; stock shortblock, closed chamber heads, 8.8:1 CR.
With small perf cam, around 410 horse by my track numbers. Small tube headers, street gears...2400 then 3000 stall, drag radials... 12.7s at 104.5 mph or there about. Full weight, 4000# with driver and fuel. More to the combo but I sold the engine, the buyer really enjoys the engine in his boat
 
#15 ·
I've decided to get roller rockers and lifters with about a .530 to 540 lift and .270 duration cam and im posotive i have a 780 holly and 2.25 inch diameter headers. What kind of power should Iexpect with this combo, 400-450? or am I going to high/low with that number?
 
#17 ·
Zach,

You have A LOT OF TIME AHEAD OF YOU. Do not rush into ANYTHING at this point. Hang out here a few months, ask questions FIRST before BUYING...the smart way to do things compared to "What do you think of my combo?" after all the parts are purchased, engine together, and in the car.

You will need a LOT more cam that what you propose for 500-550 horsepower
You will need a huge flat tappet cam or a fairly big roller tappet cam, the roller lifters, matching springs, pro work on the heads to get them to flow better, pro assembly. This all adds up.

Then I must say I have FEAR FACTOR, cutting a youngster lose with a 500+ horse car. Have seen many of these guys crash/get hurt/hurt somebody. Just met another one today, crashed his v8 S-10 pick-up first day. Personally, I think a nice-running 400 horse 454 makes a great multi-purpose engine; sane manners and economy as well as 12-second drag strip potential. Plenty of power on tap to make you learn suspension tuning
 
#23 ·
Zach,

You have A LOT OF TIME AHEAD OF YOU. Do not rush into ANYTHING at this point. Hang out here a few months, ask questions FIRST before BUYING...the smart way to do things compared to "What do you think of my combo?" after all the parts are purchased, engine together, and in the car.

You will need a LOT more cam that what you propose for 500-550 horsepower
You will need a huge flat tappet cam or a fairly big roller tappet cam, the roller lifters, matching springs, pro work on the heads to get them to flow better, pro assembly. This all adds up.

Then I must say I have FEAR FACTOR, cutting a youngster lose with a 500+ horse car. Have seen many of these guys crash/get hurt/hurt somebody. Just met another one today, crashed his v8 S-10 pick-up first day. Personally, I think a nice-running 400 horse 454 makes a great multi-purpose engine; sane manners and economy as well as 12-second drag strip potential. Plenty of power on tap to make you learn suspension tuning
I'm with George on this one. I don't know you personally, but I remember the stupid stunts I tried to pull in a car when I was younger. I almost got myself killed in a six cylinder car a week after I got my license. To drive the point home, less than a week after my incident (Too fast, ended up going in the ditch on a dirt road) a guy rolled his truck and got himself killed. Same turn, same situation. I would have never admitted it at the time, but that little incident not only cost me over $2,000 to fix the car, it also scared the crap out of me.

I was 17 when I first started driving my dads Chevelle on a regular basis. That was a modest 350-375 horse 402. Drove it for probably two years before I really laid into it. Mostly out of respect for it being my dads car. When I did finally lay into it it felt ,to me, like the fastest thing on four wheels. Of course, as time went on it felt less and less shocking. It still feels like a good running car, but it doesn't feel like the earth shattering rate of acceleration it onc was.

My '71 has a bone stock 350 out of a '72 Monte Carlo. Low compression, smogger heads, factory cam, the whole business. Only modifications are headers, HEI distributor, and a Holley dual plane aluminum intake. Even a properly tuned up small block can still be a lot of fun to drive. 500 legitimate horsepower would be no joke. You would be surprised, that bone stock truck 454 with a set of headers, aluminum intake, and a tuned up carb/timing curve will still be a lot of fun to drive. My piddly 350 can spin the tires up into second gear with a four speed, imagine what 100 more cubic inches will do.
 
#19 ·
Does your 454/T400 combo run currently? Is it installed in the car?

If not, do you have everything to install it? (assuming car was originally small block)

Are you dead set on a big block? ( I HAD to have one myself) SB parts and pieces are much cheaper and weigh significantly less. You could probably sell or trade what you have for higher end sb stuff

I was into my last iteration of my BB for far more than I could have been had I known a bit more when starting.

It was ( and is) 460 cubic inches and 9.5:1 compression. I run lousy CA pump 87 in it and full timing with no evidence of pinging. Compression is your friend but available octane limits it. My heads were a set of 990 cast iron rectangles, but for this power lever a set of ovals would have served the purpose just as well. I had a full roller valvetrain, but for the lift and duration of my cam I could have been flat tappet just fine. Lift was .514/.520 and duration was 234/246@.050. Pretty small by today's standards. With a GM 163 dual plane high rise intake and a 650 double pumper it ran 12.1s consistently in my 3800 lb car. There was more in the combo, a bigger carb would have breathed better at the top end and a newer design intake would have probably helped too. According to the calculators I was making about 440 hp.

The sticking point though is that it dead hooks. I can drop the clutch at 5k and there is no tire spin. Getting the chassis working for you is critical. I spent years building bigger and more powerful engines without getting to the ground and dreaming of going fast. If your car is together and running now, tune it, but I would suggest researching and investing in chassis components to make your car hook before spending money on the engine.

Devin
 
#20 ·
Yes it runs and drives, and the trans shifts VERY solid for sitting in a barn for 20+ years, its in my 69 El Camino which was originally a 350 car. I'm not dead set on the bb but its what I have so I'm probably going to keep it. I'ts not going to be a drag car by any means just more a really ballsy street car that might go to the strip 1-2 times month. BTW what was that in? thats exactly the performance we were looking for- about 450 horsepower and about 12.00 flat. Do you think I could get that power out of a 454 with 781's and no more than a .530 lift? Thanks for your time! have a great day
 
#21 ·
Ok, I didn't realize from your first post it was in the car and running.

Mine is in my 64 Camino, which is probably a little lighter than your 69. I've weighed mine so I know where it's at.

12.0 with a 454 and 781s? yes, not an uncommon combo. But it won't come right away. It will take having everything dialed in and a chassis that works.

I had a 11.5:1 427 installed in my car many years ago with early oval port heads and a Comp 292 hyd flat tappet cam that ran great and pulled like mad, but I didn't know anything about chassis so I never could get it to hook up and ended up spending more money to make more power yet still couldn't get it to hook to go fast. If I had left the motor alone and built the chassis that motor would have done much better than the 13.3s I got out of it.

Devin
 
#22 ·
The sticking point though is that it dead hooks. I can drop the clutch at 5k and there is no tire spin,,,,, whew wish I could get my car to dead hook,all the good stuff all the way around and it wont hook.
 
#24 ·
I agree with the above. My first car was a 94 grand am 3.1. I used to drive 110 mph everwhere on the high way and probably should have killed myself a few times. I used to want an iroc camaro in those days and was mad mom and dad wouldn't let me lol. But I would have killed myself with that. I know my bbc I have now would have been way too much car for me then and probably still at 20 even would have been dangerous
 
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