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Ball and socket flange Header

27K views 27 replies 19 participants last post by  Droptop72 
#1 ·
Here's a basic question. Whats the difference and pros/cons of a ball and socket flange header vs a 3 bolt flange? Currently, my headers have the 3 bolt flange and just bolt up to my exhaust with a gasket sandwiched inbetween. I'm looking to replace my headers and I noticed many of them are of the ball and socket flange design. Will this require some work by a muffler shop to connect up a set of new headers if they are ball and socket flange? Thanks,
 
#3 ·
I think I would say that I would never buy a Ball and Socket Header again! I bought a set of the Hedman Elites for my '77 K20 and the bolts immediately started loosening up and I lost 2 of the 6 bolts in less than 200 miles. I replaced them and re-torqued everything and it happened again in less time. Then I double-nutted them and the same thing happened, but it took a little more time for them to loosen up. Finally I put all new bolts in and torqued them down real tight, then took it to my local weld shop and had them tack all the nuts. This worked for several hundred miles, but now all of the bolts are marginally tight, no leaks, but the exhaust moves around a bit and the only way to fix it is to cut off the bolts and start over! VERY FRUSTRATING!!!

I went the Ball and Socket route because others I know have had or had them and liked them...Brett85 included. I liked the idea of no gasket needed and read into the hype that no gasket means no gasket leaks. Hind-sight I have had several other vehicles with the standard 3-bolt gasketed header flange and have never blown-out that gasket or had a leak there.

The problem I see with the ball and socket connection is that the bolt and nut joint design is inherently flawed!!! You need to have a solid joint for the fasteners to not loosen up. The standard flange is a much better design and you don't save anything in the ball and socket design except for a gasket!
 
#4 ·
I use the ball socket adapter, which can be used with ANY header, on my '67.
The ball simply welds onto the exhaust pipe.
Works perfect!! No leaks ever. :thumbsup:
You do need to slide the supplied bolt flange over the pipe before welding. ;)
 
#5 ·
Interesting discussion. I am looking at Edelbrocks LS1 conversion headers and exhaust and it uses the ball and socket type of seal.

It seems that almost all new vehicles have this type of system and the oems dont seem to have a problem with them. Wonder what the aftermarket is doing wrong ? I do know that most of the oem systems have a spring loaded flange and the bolts are a shoulder type and would be almost imporssible for them to come loose. WOnder if you could retrofit the spring loaded setup to the aftermarket ones ?
 
#6 ·
Mine just bolts together using common 3/8" bolts and have NEVER come loose.
We also installed a set on my BIL's '69 Chevelle...no problems.
The ball adapters are available..CHEAP...and in various sizes from any local muffler supply outlet.
 
#7 ·
I think the OEM not only uses springs,but the nuts and the threads are some sort of self locking setup.When I found the clamp on my Camaro loose,I thought I could just tighten it up, but it was worn and it ran out of threads.So I figured I would just put some washers under the nuts. Mind you, I had soaked the clamp with penetrating oil before I started.Less than the amount of turns till it bottomed and it was bound up solid.I ended up cutting the clamp off with a high speed and a cutoff wheel.I had to order a new clamp and the threads were not like normal rolled threads.The nuts looked like normal nuts, but they had funny looking threads as well.The threads had some sort of antiseize so I figured it was designed to be installed and never removed.Just my .02
 
#8 ·
I have them on one of my 5.0 Foxbody toys, only a couple thousand miles personally, but they have been the standard factory and aftermarket setup for millions of cars since 85. I find them much easier to install and adjust. I would put them on the Chevelle in a second if I was changing exhaust.
 
#9 ·
I like them on mine... I had them loosen up on me at first, but now I check them at every oil-change while I'm under there anyway.
 
#10 ·
Mine are just regular bolts and nuts. I tried prevailing torque nuts as well as double prevailing torque and they still loosened up on me. Yeah!!!...shoulder bolts and perhaps a spring loaded joint would help. I may have to try putting something together like that. If anyone has a picture of a stock OEM type setup I would appreciate being able to look at it. My truck does see a lot more harsh conditions that our street cars, so I am sure that contributes.

Perhaps I could make up a sheetmetal retainer like a cam lock-plate? That would keep them from loosening...or perhaps safety wire them!
 
#11 ·
any time you switch headers from one brand to another, yo uare going to need to do a little work on the pipes to get them to fit, anyways, so a ball and socket setup really isn't much more work.
 
#13 ·
Ball and socket type does seem to seal better. Im thinking a spring type of system like what some imports cars have, especially Honda, would be appropiate here. They have a springs that kind of looks like a valve spring with special shoulder bolts to seat the spring and self locking nuts like previously mentioned.
 
#16 ·
When we first put the Hedman Elite's on my Dad's 1982 K20 in 2007, they did loosen up a couple times, but I eventually threw the original hardware away and put grade 8 bolts and high quality top lock nuts on, , and have had no real issues since. When I put the Elite's on the Chevelle a year ago, I used my own hardware from the start, and so far zero issues. Besides not having leaky gaskets (which I always had issues with) I like how they work if the headers and the pipes are not in perfect alignment. Option two would be to just weld the collectors to the header and then use a band clamp between the collector and the pipe. I did that with my old cheap headers, and it ran that way from 1995 through 2020.
 
#20 ·
It has more to do with lack of attention to detail, or just not giving a crap, than it does forum software. It's not like the software is hiding the post/thread dates.

BOT: Seen my fair share of rusted out "balls" on these types of headers. Guess a garage queen wouldn't have that issue though.
 
#28 ·
BOT: Seen my fair share of rusted out "balls" on these types of headers. Guess a garage queen wouldn't have that issue though.
My dad's truck would be a good test of that, as it has been exposed to a LOT of Indiana rain snow salt and calcium chloride. I had to weld shut a hole on top of the collector after about ten years, but the balls were in perfect condition. I can't imagine any vehicle like our Chevelles would ever see that problem, especially if they are coated headers.
 
#21 ·
I know this is an old post. The ball and socket flanges really need the egg shaped nut that you find on our suspensions and motor mounts. They do not come loose and you can adjust them from time-to-time as needed. American Racing headers on the Corvette C6 headers have the egg nut and it works fine. The only draw back is it can take a while to tighten by hand.
 
#22 ·
Well now that the thread has been brought back from the dead another easy solution (that I have never seen) would be to use a bolt and nut that can be safety wired. I am an A&P mechanic and the use of safety wire is very common in my profession. Often have wondered why it is not used on cars in places that bolts/nuts coming loose is common and a pain such as header flange bolts.
 
#23 ·
It doesn't bother me when a new member brings up old threads, because probably that member was already using the search function to find answers - only he felt the need to add to the conversation right then and there!

I was guilty as charged, too.

I welded nothing on my Magnaflow exhaust, and I chose the ball & socket Headman headers. I have not experienced the loose bolt issues people say, and I have removed the ball and socket many times working on my clutch issues / tranny removals. Always stayed tight using the provided hardware. (knock on wood)
 
#24 ·
It doesn't bother me when a new member brings up old threads, because probably that member was already using the search function to find answers - only he felt the need to add to the conversation right then and there!
I don’t think these people that dig up these old threads are members at all. Somehow they come across them while on the net but not logged into the site and feel the need to comment. As an example last week a first time poster commented on the qualities of using PVC pipe on a ten year old thread. The issue was that the 10 year old thread subject was was PCV valves. No connection so poster definitely wasn’t searching the site.
 
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