1970 Monte Carlo 402 4 speed - Page 2 - Chevelle Tech
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  #16  
Old Jun 24th, 13, 4:38 AM
BACK FROM THE DEAD BACK FROM THE DEAD is offline
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Default Re: 1970 Monte Carlo 402 4 speed

Looks like the floor is rotted by the kick panel, could be a LOT of rust in the lower cowl area so check it out good down there.
It's a tough area to look at, as well as to fix.

My GOD that fan shroud is something to behold! Looks like half of a 55-Gal drum was used.
The nose of those Monte's are long enough, I bet if you went with an electric fan you could mount a second engine in front of that one and link their cranks together!
I think I heard it was a COPO option, the LS3-X2?
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  #17  
Old Jun 24th, 13, 7:47 AM
Andy's Auto Repair Andy's Auto Repair is offline
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Default Re: 1970 Monte Carlo 402 4 speed

It is funny listening to you Poor Mans Monte Carlo owners comments on the fan shrouds and hoses. That would be a forgone conclusion for Monte guys like me and Davey.

The 402 4 speeds were very cool cars. Bonesey over at FirstGenMC has a 70 350 4 gear car. Rarer than hens teeth. The buyers pool for those cars are pretty shallow, but if the car docs out the seller will see $10k all day long.
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  #18  
Old Jun 24th, 13, 9:39 AM
Second_chance_SS Second_chance_SS is offline
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Default Re: 1970 Monte Carlo 402 4 speed

[quote=zookpr;4359017]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorvation View Post
...... He met one of the original MC engineers. The engineer said NO 454 4-speeds were ever produced. The engineer said a Muncie wouldn't take the torque and weight combo. But there could be Dealer installed 4-speeds out there....QUOTE]


I guess that the original MC engineer wasn't aware of the M22's behind all 454 manual appplications, including the LS6, in '70-'72. "couldn't take the torque & weight"???? WHat was he smoking?
My thoughts exactly. Sounds like a wanna-be engineer.
In 1976 I saw a '70 MC sideswipe another car at a stop light. The Monte had the green. Anyway, the guy was mid twenties and was hopping mad. I looked at the car and it was an LS5, M22, bucket seat, console, gauge package car !! He said his Dad had ordered it and now it was totalled. It appeared mint on the left and the right side was nearly gone. Both he and I wanted to mutilate the woman that ran the red... At the time I owned a '70 Chevelle LS5, M22 that I bought from the original owner in '73. I knew what I was looking at and how he felt.
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  #19  
Old Jun 24th, 13, 12:39 PM
crazydavey crazydavey is offline
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Default Re: 1970 Monte Carlo 402 4 speed

[quote=Second_chance_SS;4362185]
Quote:
Originally Posted by zookpr View Post

My thoughts exactly. Sounds like a wanna-be engineer.
In 1976 I saw a '70 MC sideswipe another car at a stop light. The Monte had the green. Anyway, the guy was mid twenties and was hopping mad. I looked at the car and it was an LS5, M22, bucket seat, console, gauge package car !! He said his Dad had ordered it and now it was totalled. It appeared mint on the left and the right side was nearly gone. Both he and I wanted to mutilate the woman that ran the red... At the time I owned a '70 Chevelle LS5, M22 that I bought from the original owner in '73. I knew what I was looking at and how he felt.
if it was an LS5 with a M22 the trans was installed after it left the factory...no such car has ever been documented and believe me everyone in the Monte World has looked....just like they have never found that one convertible some claim was made....just like Andy I've been dealing with the Gen I cars for a long time...there are a lot of my uncle knows a guy who's brother in law met a guy at a swap meet who owns a factory SS454 Convertible 4 speed car.....
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  #20  
Old Jun 24th, 13, 5:16 PM
asphaltgambler asphaltgambler is offline
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Default Re: 1970 Monte Carlo 402 4 speed

I had a chance to buy a big block 4-speed '71 MC car in the early 80's that was sorta beat but all there. One thing for certain was it was an original 4-speed car. The second; I would almost swear it was a 454 car too. all there with lots of options - just tired.

I had three other cars then and just could not work the $$ out as I was young and broke but knew it was a really rare piece then.
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  #21  
Old Jun 24th, 13, 7:08 PM
DougA DougA is offline
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Default Re: 1970 Monte Carlo 402 4 speed

Davey,and others,I must relate how things were here in Baltimore back "in the day".Baltimore was a GM town.At one time,the GM plant was the second largest employer here.You either worked at GM,had a relative that worked there,or you knew lots of people that worked there,neighbors,etc.,it's just how it was.Anything and everything went on,on the assembly lines there.One of the perks of working for GM after ordering a new car was personally "walking" your car down the assembly line as it was being built,and adding options.My friends tell me that when a bosses car went down the line,EVERY option was added to it.Dealers got "special" orders.I still drink beer and bench race every weekend with my old car friends,whom lots worked on the line and can tell everything you need to know what went on at GM.If you click on my showroom and go to pic 010 of the back of my Chevelle,you will see a guy on the right walking towards my car.He's one of my best friends,went to school with him,and he went to work on the line starting in the late 60's.Always joke with him about the crummy job he did building my Chevelle,lol.
When some one in town got an LS-6,L-78 Camaro,etc.,all us hot rodders knew it.We'd go down to Capitol Raceway on Sat. nites,and all the new GM performance cars sold that week were making passes,lots with the window stickers still proudly in place.One of our hangouts was Marsden Chevrolet,in Towson,Md,a Baltimore suburb.Old mom and pop dealership,with a small showroom.One of my friends was a mechanic there and one night he took me in the showroom and showed me a new delivery.In the star location was a new 70 Monte Carlo,Gobi Beige,Tan top,tan interior,SS454,4 speed with console.Now I know everyone says these don't exist,but I saw it and sat in it.We were all 18 year old Chevy gearheads and were blown away at what we considered an "old mans car" with a 4 speed.Was a beautiful car,and I drooled over it for several weeks till it was sold,never saw it again.In my slightly older age I can't remember what I had for dinner last night,but back in those days I was pretty lucid,esp. when it came to GM muscle.
OK,all the experts now can come on here and tell me I'm full of it,it never existed,etc.,etc.Doesn't matter to me,I know what it was.I lived through these times in GM town,and it was pretty cool.
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  #22  
Old Jun 24th, 13, 7:55 PM
oman oman is offline
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Default Re: 1970 Monte Carlo 402 4 speed

[quote=crazydavey;4362945]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Second_chance_SS View Post

...there are a lot of my uncle knows a guy who's brother in law met a guy at a swap meet who owns a factory SS454 Convertible 4 speed car.....
Not every story is crap but I wonder what goes thru the minds of people who cook this crap up out of "whole cloth". Do they sit and say to themselves "This makes me sound cool" or do they think "I wonder how stupid this sounds. I know this is BS will but with this jerk believe me"? I guess a 15 or 16 year old kid back in the day thought this sort of yarn made him sound like an insider of some sort.

I suppose it was possible to cook up something if a dealer had "juice" at the factory and there were no end of dealer swaps going on. Even with juice these cars are / were not really available to the public: they were one of a kind and as such I guess worth more IF ya could prove they were factory built. I suspect there were VERY VERY VERY few such things more likely there were lots (relatively speaking) of dealer swap jobs.

All ya needed was money and a dealer who wanted the money. The later part was easy..not so the former part but some guys had cash. A guy I went to HS with had a new L-79 66 Nova while still in his senior year. Nothing magic there just money from Dad.

Last edited by oman; Jun 24th, 13 at 10:28 PM.
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  #23  
Old Jun 24th, 13, 9:08 PM
70SSTHUMPER 70SSTHUMPER is offline
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Default Re: 1970 Monte Carlo 402 4 speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougA View Post
Davey,and others,I must relate how things were here in Baltimore back "in the day".Baltimore was a GM town.At one time,the GM plant was the second largest employer here.You either worked at GM,had a relative that worked there,or you knew lots of people that worked there,neighbors,etc.,it's just how it was.Anything and everything went on,on the assembly lines there.One of the perks of working for GM after ordering a new car was personally "walking" your car down the assembly line as it was being built,and adding options.My friends tell me that when a bosses car went down the line,EVERY option was added to it.Dealers got "special" orders.I still drink beer and bench race every weekend with my old car friends,whom lots worked on the line and can tell everything you need to know what went on at GM.If you click on my showroom and go to pic 010 of the back of my Chevelle,you will see a guy on the right walking towards my car.He's one of my best friends,went to school with him,and he went to work on the line starting in the late 60's.Always joke with him about the crummy job he did building my Chevelle,lol.
When some one in town got an LS-6,L-78 Camaro,etc.,all us hot rodders knew it.We'd go down to Capitol Raceway on Sat. nites,and all the new GM performance cars sold that week were making passes,lots with the window stickers still proudly in place.One of our hangouts was Marsden Chevrolet,in Towson,Md,a Baltimore suburb.Old mom and pop dealership,with a small showroom.One of my friends was a mechanic there and one night he took me in the showroom and showed me a new delivery.In the star location was a new 70 Monte Carlo,Gobi Beige,Tan top,tan interior,SS454,4 speed with console.Now I know everyone says these don't exist,but I saw it and sat in it.We were all 18 year old Chevy gearheads and were blown away at what we considered an "old mans car" with a 4 speed.Was a beautiful car,and I drooled over it for several weeks till it was sold,never saw it again.In my slightly older age I can't remember what I had for dinner last night,but back in those days I was pretty lucid,esp. when it came to GM muscle.
OK,all the experts now can come on here and tell me I'm full of it,it never existed,etc.,etc.Doesn't matter to me,I know what it was.I lived through these times in GM town,and it was pretty cool.
^ This is one of the main reasons I joined Team Chevelle. "Priceless"
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  #24  
Old Jun 24th, 13, 10:12 PM
crazydavey crazydavey is offline
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Default Re: 1970 Monte Carlo 402 4 speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougA View Post
Davey,and others,I must relate how things were here in Baltimore back "in the day".Baltimore was a GM town.At one time,the GM plant was the second largest employer here.You either worked at GM,had a relative that worked there,or you knew lots of people that worked there,neighbors,etc.,it's just how it was.Anything and everything went on,on the assembly lines there.One of the perks of working for GM after ordering a new car was personally "walking" your car down the assembly line as it was being built,and adding options.My friends tell me that when a bosses car went down the line,EVERY option was added to it.Dealers got "special" orders.I still drink beer and bench race every weekend with my old car friends,whom lots worked on the line and can tell everything you need to know what went on at GM.If you click on my showroom and go to pic 010 of the back of my Chevelle,you will see a guy on the right walking towards my car.He's one of my best friends,went to school with him,and he went to work on the line starting in the late 60's.Always joke with him about the crummy job he did building my Chevelle,lol.
When some one in town got an LS-6,L-78 Camaro,etc.,all us hot rodders knew it.We'd go down to Capitol Raceway on Sat. nites,and all the new GM performance cars sold that week were making passes,lots with the window stickers still proudly in place.One of our hangouts was Marsden Chevrolet,in Towson,Md,a Baltimore suburb.Old mom and pop dealership,with a small showroom.One of my friends was a mechanic there and one night he took me in the showroom and showed me a new delivery.In the star location was a new 70 Monte Carlo,Gobi Beige,Tan top,tan interior,SS454,4 speed with console.Now I know everyone says these don't exist,but I saw it and sat in it.We were all 18 year old Chevy gearheads and were blown away at what we considered an "old mans car" with a 4 speed.Was a beautiful car,and I drooled over it for several weeks till it was sold,never saw it again.In my slightly older age I can't remember what I had for dinner last night,but back in those days I was pretty lucid,esp. when it came to GM muscle.
OK,all the experts now can come on here and tell me I'm full of it,it never existed,etc.,etc.Doesn't matter to me,I know what it was.I lived through these times in GM town,and it was pretty cool.
Doug I agree with you on a lot of this. Particularly when I read stuff in WIW about how how this is correct and that is correct....anybody who was over 18 in that era knows the cars back then were sometimes never exactly the same in every detail. You can argue with them all you want but it's pointless, they have a book..or research or some BS that says so. You could get creative with those cars and a lot of dealers did. I had a '72 350 4 speed Monte that never existed. I had a paper trail of it but it was not a "factory" 4 speed car. A lot of dealers back then made there own stuff trying to attract customers to something special. In the case of this 72 that is exactly what happened, the car was special ordered by the dealer in code 19 black (not a normal option color for 72) with saddle interior. It went straight to the service department where they converted it to a 4 speed car ( I had the work orders)...so if in fact that was a 454 SS car you sat in my guess is that the dealer did it just like Dick Harrell did with a rather famous green car that still exists. Also what you sat in might have actually been a 402 car...a lot of people always thought if it had gauges and bucket seats that it was a SS car....just might be testing your memory from when you were 18........again..no one has ever been able to document a SS454 4 speed car...by that I mean one with a build sheet that says it came form the factory that way...
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  #25  
Old Jun 24th, 13, 11:10 PM
DougA DougA is offline
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Default Re: 1970 Monte Carlo 402 4 speed

Thanks Davey,we were all really in awe of this car,because a 454 was such a huge announcement for GM in 70.We were all gearheads that grew up with hi-revving smallblocks and the occasional 396.It was the first SS Monte we had all ever seen,remember the callouts on the rockers.I still remember the chrome ball and the Muncie shifter,because we all joked about how crappy they were.The speed shops made a fortune in Baltimore selling Hurst/Chevelle shifters as everyone ditched the Muncies in the first week or two.I just know from all my friends,that a lot of things happened on the line,that don't always show up on a paper trail,build sheet mean't nothing on a car that was "walked" down the line.Marsden was a local,popular dealer,he might have made a call or two to someone at the plant,and I'm sure he knew some bigwigs there,as it was less than 10 miles away,I don't know.My friends don't remember specifically building any SS 4 speed Montes,as it was just a job at the time,and we've talked about this,but they all agree that they could have,as it would just a simple task,as they put them in the 402's.Remember these were the days before computers as we all know of them today.
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  #26  
Old Jun 25th, 13, 10:28 AM
beachbum29 beachbum29 is offline
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Default Re: 1970 Monte Carlo 402 4 speed

I know it's nothing to do with this car, but I believe what Doug is saying, even though at the time, I was only a year old! I only say this as my father ran a radiator shop all though the 70's into the 80's and I grew up working on alot of things with him and my uncle. They have a friend who had purchased a 1970 barracuda grand coupe 383/4 speed convertible car from the original owners parents for the paultry sum of $250.00 back in the mid 70's. I grew up in, around, and all over this car. In the mid 80's with the ripe mileage of 65,000, it needed a new radiator, and upon reading the number from it, it was discovered that the radiator in question did not exist in any factory book. Upon further digging, it was discovered that the radiator support came from another car, but yet the car had never been in any accident, and modine was able to break down the number as a 1968 nascar piece (4 row). Never did find out what the support came from. That, combined with the hemi 4 speed in the car, electronic ignition with no serial number on it, or any markings on it for that matter, and a pile of other very strange options, including massive truck brakes on the car too. The owner decided to do some homework on the car and it was discovered that it was a chrysler exec's car that was walked down the line and things were added to it as it went. Seems the guy had a taste for weird options including power windows, power driver seat, leather interior, am/fm stereo, hemi 4 speed, dual chrome mirrors, fender top signal's, and the gill rocker chrome, electronic igntion that didn't come out for a few more years, and that crazy radiator in there, but no a/c, and then the car was never titled, it was sold a year later as a demo to the "original owner".. Mopar performance came to do an article on the car, however not sure if it ever went into print, as they were pretty upset that the car had been changed from it's original yellow paint to red (even though the red chosen was also a factory 1970 color). Car as since been sold, I ebayed it for him and is somewhere in the mid west now, hopefully getting the restoration it deserves. Seems almost anything was possible back then!
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  #27  
Old Mar 25th, 14, 6:09 PM
Z28-john Z28-john is offline
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Default Re: 1970 Monte Carlo 402 4 speed

Yup 589. I have one of them. 1970 402 Muncie M20 4 speed built in Van Nuys CA, for a Dr.
He ordered it without tilt/cruise, but with PB and AC. Cortez silver, no console (did they even offer one for the stick?), Black interior, low-back buckets, etc.
Mine needs restored and I am interested in any OE quarter-panels that might be for sale, a good '70 front bumper, and other misc. parts. I bought it from an 18 y.o. guy in KCMO.
All the major numbers match, but don't know about heads, intake, etc.
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  #28  
Old Mar 25th, 14, 7:35 PM
RealRed70 RealRed70 is offline
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Default Re: 1970 Monte Carlo 402 4 speed

The Monte Carlo 4 speed console plates had wood grain on them. Fairly rare.
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  #29  
Old Mar 25th, 14, 9:32 PM
crazydavey crazydavey is offline
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Default Re: 1970 Monte Carlo 402 4 speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z28-john View Post
Yup 589. I have one of them. 1970 402 Muncie M20 4 speed built in Van Nuys CA, for a Dr.
He ordered it without tilt/cruise, but with PB and AC. Cortez silver, no console (did they even offer one for the stick?), Black interior, low-back buckets, etc.
Mine needs restored and I am interested in any OE quarter-panels that might be for sale, a good '70 front bumper, and other misc. parts. I bought it from an 18 y.o. guy in KCMO.
All the major numbers match, but don't know about heads, intake, etc.
go to the FGMCC site and talk to them there...
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  #30  
Old Mar 25th, 14, 10:19 PM
VMXRACER VMXRACER is offline
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Default Re: 1970 Monte Carlo 402 4 speed

Chevrolet made 4 speed 65 SS396 Impalas .....Monte Carlo cant be much heavier than that.
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