I wrote this yesterday day but had not decided if I even wanted to bother posting it & have been busy anyway.
But I see this thing is still alive & well so what the hell, guess I will add to the drama too,,,
HI H
Hi Jim,
Hi Tony
Hi Cody
Hi to everyone else too,,,, :waving:
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There's no a mention of "comparison" anywhere in my original post above. The post (link) merely gives some insight into the entire "CNC" issue AND general business practices. It's like I've said all along, over here we don't really care about "CNC'ing" OR brands. Makes no difference to us. If you
"read-between-the-lines" you'll get an education more from a business standpoint.
I know many here believe I "hammer" one major player most often, well let me "continue" that saga. The very same customer, who chose these heads, CANNOT get his spark plugs (2) in his newest cylinder heads. Originally he had the factory iron heads in place, then replaced those with a pair of Edelbrocks, not an issue anywhere with that upgrade, not one single issue! Now he goes with the present set and he CANNOT get a couple of the spark plugs to go. This customer is no "dummy" and has more "savvy" than most. He proceed to modify the excellent looking pipes, I believe it's a custom set of George's from "Kook's Headers", with a 5# ball-peen hammer and a pipe. He was never told about the plug relocation! He did ask that specific question and was told that there would be no problem in that area, "if the Edelbrocks were Ok then these SHOULD go". In all fairness he was told about "raising" the headers. He knew that would "fly". So for now he has gone "backwards" 2 steps, he has a car that wont "fall-out-of-a-tree" and one can no longer (for now) do the show circuit. The headers appear as they were hit by locomotive at a railroad crossing! (They WILL be fixed, I'm sure!)
(Add) At the other site pay particular attention about the remark pertaining to the early "Dart" heads from Maskin's. "THERE WERE/ARE NO GUIDES IN THESE 360 BB HEADS"! I have 2 sets here to do now, the guides are integral "Aluminum" with some .060" bronze liners AND this is the best part, they use 5/8" "short-reach" peanut plug-tapered seat plugs. In Aluminum threads with no plug inserts! Downright "cheap" for lack of a better word.
Thanks, Gary in N.Y.
P.S. The manufacturers, and this includes just about ALL of them, use these issues, "CNC'ing", inflated CFM numbers, etc. to sell heads. This isn't anything new!
Double P.S. With respect to AFR's "dilemma" with the premature "valve tip" wear issues, I have a number of Manley's here with the identical issues. It was a few years ago, I saved them in a box for my customer but he never picked them up. Ater speaking to K.C. down at Manley about it their first response, (quote) "those are not our valves" (end quote). They had the
"Manley" name imprinted. I sent them down and what do know, "lo and behold" they're Manleys! We knew what caused the issue and they finally confirmed our suspicions. The "key" part here, they involved the Dart SB iron
"assembled" heads sold through "Summit". This was a while back, and I would assume it's been corrected by now. So you see, we're not predjuice, I tell it like it is, it's like that proverbial saying "don't kill the messenger because you don't like the message"! If you "link" this last issue to the "missing guides" above in the "old" 360's, it's a "message" about the business aspect. If you're "savvy" you get it, if not "oh well"!
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Ok,,
You started your first post with the comment regarding the "CONSTANT BATTLES" of who's head is the best
WHAT BATTLE????
Until you started whining about AFR there was no battle, most everyone agreed there are a number of excellent heads out there but my own opinion was & is that for an OUT OF THE BOX HEAD the AFR was right at the top of the heap.
No one said there were not other heads that are very good.if not outstanding right out of the box.
I have said many times that for a lot of applications I prefer the Brodix oval Race Rites.
I have heard nothing but good about the new BMF stuff.
I have a set of Dart 335CNC heads sitting here that look great although they do not flow anywhere near the AFR 335.
This is on my bench under the same controlled conditions BTW, not advertised or biased numbers in any way.
Does this mean the power will be down from the AFR, this I can't answer, haven't tried them yet & when I do their will be other differences so it won't be a completely fair test.
I have also said many times that in the right hands a good head can be an outstanding head & have mentioned the folks on Speedtalk as being some of the very best in the business.
It is no secret that I have the utmost respect for Tony at AFR both as a head porter & a friend & consider him one of the best too.
You on the other hand seem to take issue with him even though he has come on here & tried to be civil to you even asking you to call him if you had some real or perceived problem
I can see you took that advice to heart
As I recall you did not even have the courtesy to reply to the posts.
And I must ask,,
What the hell does the AFR problem with the new 8mm valves have to do with anything?
What is your point"
When AFR steps up to the plate the way they did regarding this problem on more than one open forum you have nothing to say but you obviously read it
Where the hell were you then?
You take a post that is a generalized view of some of the best people in the cylinder head design business talking about heads that are at the top of the food chain & you link to it as if it backs up something you have discovered trying to say that it relates to what I feel are one of the best "out of the box' cylinder heads out there.
I don't have a clue what your passion is with AFR but just about every chance you get you seem to feel the need to rehash old crap & slam them in general & Tony in particular.
Out of the multitude of AFR cylinder heads out there you seem to be the only person who consistently has a problem, can't make power and generally whines about them.
I don't know of anyone who doesn't know that with a lot of aftermarket heads & headers sparkplugs can be a problem but you of course have to point at AFR??
How is it there are so many cars out there running complete with 8 plugs & headers??
Do these folks know something they are just keeping secret from you or what?
You then go off on a rant about how you bitch about all brands, not just AFR but this is usually when someone calls you on your posts.
Here are some of your other bits of valuable information over the past year or two
You get on here & talk about using springs that are 300/800 after I have posted probably a dozen or so times about the merits of enough spring pressure with a roller & the bad things that happen without enough spring.
Yet just a few months ago you were advocating using 5/16" pushrods in a rat is a good thing because they are lighter
(damn but I love this one :sad: )
You have made statements like torque plates do nothing & you have proved it,
You imply that you seem to be the only person who knows how to gap a ring & most of us "other engine builders", the ring manufacturers, piston manufacturers, Major OEM's since the 1980's don't have a clue because they have gone to a wider second ring gap.
You talk about your "300 units" you did last year,,,, this is an engine a day for Christ's sake
You have said you have like 100+ Dart & Bowtie blocks in stock??
Hell, even Dart doesn't have 100 blocks in stock,,
You have said your good friend is Bill Mitchell
Then you say you will not use any of his stuff because of quality control
I could go on but if anyone doubts I speak the truth just do a simple search on all of your past posts.
And,,, now the "good part",
You have come on here many times & given excellent information, helped a number of folks with problems and you have obviously been around this stuff for a while so,,,,
How about getting off the AFR bash-box & sticking with the good information.
AFR has an excellent head,
Dart CNC are an excellent head
Brodix has some excellent heads
Hell, even RHS may get their act together soon
PS,,, Ok, I am done now,,,,,