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Seatbelts: Andover VS Morris

19K views 39 replies 16 participants last post by  haughty 
#1 ·
Is there anyone who has done a side by side comparison of the two manufacturers to determine what the differences are ??

So far I'm seeing
1. Both meet the U.S. Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards.
2. Both have ardent supporters and happy customers in various classics
3. Both have over 20 OEM colors to choose from.

With the 3 point retractable sets
> Andover has sets for $180
> Morris Concepts have 2 options $299 , or GM mark of excellence $350

What am I missing here that makes one worth nearly 2x more then the other ??
Morris rep told me they include all hardware. I'm thinking the few GR8 bolts are a few bucks.
 
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#5 ·
The ease of installation, assembled, car specific,factory look and our seat belts are tested and assembled in the USA.Our seat belts are tested weekly. All the parts are test individually and if a lot number changes then another test is conducted.The complte seat belt assembly is tested also.

The picture you posted here is a few years old.We have changed vendors and added the soft sash top mounting bracket and top cover. We didn't change vendors because of a Profit margin, we are getting a better product that is tested and assembled in the USA.
Look at our web page www.morrisclassicconcepts for the new style of seat belts. Also look at www.protouring .com in the Safety and Tech Section for a real Life Saving test of our seat belts. Billy
 
#8 ·
The ease of installation, assembled, car specific,factory look and our seat belts are tested and assembled in the USA.Our seat belts are tested weekly. All the parts are test individually and if a lot number changes then another test is conducted.The complte seat belt assembly is tested also.

The picture you posted here is a few years old.We have changed vendors and added the soft sash top mounting bracket and top cover...
Billy,
I realize you are probably busy, but why aren't all these attributes listed on your website? I didn't see anything there about your testing, stainless brackets, Grade 8 hardware, "Assembled in the USA", pictures of the newer design installed (for Chevelles, you only have a picture of the older, outdated design) or maybe a brief explaination on why the design changed. Personally, I also think you should have a blurb about products you are working on (such as the REAR Chevelle belts, especially since you seem to be primarily a Camaro supplier).

Seems like you have alot more to offer, but your website makes it appear like you just offer a "similar" product for a higher price...

You keep mentioning "vehicle specific", with Grade 8 hardware, but based on their website description, Andover offers the same: A "Chevelle-specific" set, with hardware (it is all Grade 8), that easily installs using only the stock mounting points (for front sets). IMO, it doesn't help that your base kit appears to have the same buckles as the competition offers (makes it appear they are similar products)...

Andover said:
All of the seat belts and related hardware are new and manufactured to meet or exceed FMVSS (U.S. Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) 209,302 and SAE 386 with most manufactured or assembled in the USA..

The 1968-72 Chevelle and 1968-72 El Camino front seat retractable kits include the seat belts and mounting hardware for the driver and passenger. The 1968-72 Chevelle coupe rear seat retrofit kits include the seat belts,mounting hardware and installation instructions for two persons.
You also mention testing weekly, testing to 5000 lbs, but isn't that what the FMVSS requirements are ( the same requirements as the others)? If you are going above the minimum FMVSS requirements, then why not mention it on your website?


I like the new design (soft sash), and I like the "GM" buckles. For my future '66 Chevelle project, I'll be considering the Morris' belts for those reasons (debating between "stock" lap belts or 3-pts all-around).
 
#6 ·
#9 ·
Ace,

When I decided to replace my stock belts for the convenience of a three point retractable, I looked at everything out there including the Andover belts. My Elky is a completely stock numbers matching car so it was important to me to find a belt system that looked as close to the original GM set-up as I could find while providing the convenience along with the safety and the Morris belts fit the bill.

I was turned off by the appearance of the extra brackets at floor on the Andover product along with that plastic extension piece that attaches to the roof. Everything bolts up like the originals with the Morris set-up and looks near identical to the originals.

I certainly agonized over the pricing difference between the Andovers and the Morris belts but I didn't want to compromise on appearance. I purchased the Morris belts and never looked back. Yes, I had to pay more but I got what I wanted. Perhaps you aren't as picky as me and the Andover belts would be just as safe and you'd save some money in the process. I think it just boils down to what's gonna make you happy.

Rich
 
#11 ·
Testing is the responsibility of the manufacture. Simply call them and ask for their latest test data. You will be suprised at some of their answers.
I called one supplier and I asked about year and car specific seat belts they said we have them .I said I am looking on your web page and asked if the picture I was viewing was the exact set. Their reply Yes. I said if I mount it with that bracket the seat belt will be pointing to the driveshaft. Their reply Get Creative and Make another Bracket because there isn't anyone that makes a year & car specific set ,WRONG , We do!

The other companies bracket is a plate with a stud in the middle which isn't anything like our top bracket.
Billy
 
#12 ·
I would like to think that "MADE IN THE USA." still means something, instead of "mostly made or assembled in the USA." and I am willing to pay extra for what I feel confident is a quality product, I still vote for Morris......:thumbsup:
 
#13 ·
I would like to think that "MADE IN THE USA." still means something, instead of "mostly made or assembled in the USA." and I am willing to pay extra for what I feel confident is a quality product, I still vote for Morris......:thumbsup:
Understandable, paying extra for perceived quality, as well as paying extra for "Made in the USA". But, Morris doesn't say they were completely Made in the USA, just assembled and tested in the USA... Assembled with imported components?

Morris classics said:
our seat belts are tested and assembled in the USA
Andover states that most belts are assembled in the USA ( not that they are "mostly" assembled in the USA, which can lead people to believe they may have been partially assembled elsewhere)... On mine, I was told they were assembled here, in the USA... The retractors and buckles may have been imported, but is there a US supplier for all those components?

Of course, there are many different retailers of belts... From these threads, we are only told that "some" companies may import assembled belts, and some may assemble belts here using components of unknown origin.

Kind of ironic that while Morris notes that "some" suppliers blah, blah, blah... Yet he makes little to no claims against Andover's products, just general claims against "some companies"...

Supposedly, Andover supplys components and assemblies wholesale... Ironic that some of Morris buckles (brushed body with "chrome" button) look nearly identical to Andover's, yet they aren't copies of actual GM buckles... Could they be made by the same manufacturer? Could Andover supply Morris with components? Or could they be using the same supplier?

Sure, assembled in the USA with proprietory components (the various brackets, etc)...

We'll probably never know...


Morris Classic said:
The other companies bracket is a plate with a stud in the middle which isn't anything like our top bracket.
And nothing like your previously designed top bracket? Plate and stud, does not make it defficient, just not as "original" as your new style. Is there a functional defficiency using the plate/stud?

Was your previous design (small triangular plate, two holes for the factory roof attachment) sufficiently safe? In the installed orientation, was there a functional difference between your old-style bracket, and the "plate and stud" from Andover?

I agree that the "new" Morris top bracket is nice ( I like it without the rigid extension), Billy mentioned more "correct" and easier rear seat access, but is there a structural benefit compared to previous Morris versions?
 
#14 ·
Seatbelts

Okay guys this is getting out of hand. We can make our seat belts cheaper but I as owner of Morris Classic Concepts I will not let a few dollars more profit change my views on safety.A testing facility calls our brackets Gorillas.
Questions answered, Our seatbelts are assembled completely and sewn and tested in the USA.

I won't name other vendors and get into a bashing game. Use your common sense when looking and comparing our seat belts Quality.Just simply ask them for their safety dates and data!

Our previous design was strong enough to hold the guy in the 68 Camaro that he was cut out of. Look at www.pro-touring.com in the Safety and Tech Equipment section.We changed design because it is closer to the GM design and as safe or safer. Again this is just our opinion, and a guy that worked in Volvos safety testing.

I would not want to rely on the strap with a stud to keep me Safe.
Bottom line How much is Your and Your Loved ones Safety worth. Spend Appropiately and Compare.


I want to Thank Everyone for Purchasing and Supporting our Products.

Billy
 
#17 ·
Dug up more info.

Looks like most aftermarket seat belt manufacturers conform to the same 3 FVMSS codes 209, 302, and SAE 386
However, I just scoured Morris site to find the information and I can't seem to find it on their site.
Is there anything that confirms this officially?

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/fmvss/index.html
http://www.seatbeltsplus.com/REGULATIONS.html

FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARDS #209

FMVSS #209 - "Seat Belt Assemblies - Passenger Cars, Multipurpose Passenger Vehicles, Trucks, and Buses (Effective 3-1-67) This standard specifies requirements for seat belt assemblies. The requirements apply to straps, webbing, or similar material, as well as to all necessary buckles and other fasteners and all hardware designed for installing the assembly in a motor vehicle, and to the installation, usage, and maintenance instructions for the assembly"

FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARDS #302

FMVSS #302 - "Flammability of Interior Materials - Passenger Cars, Multipurpose Passenger Vehicles, Trucks, and Buses (Effective 9-1-72) This standard specifies burn resistance requirements for materials used in the occupant compartments of motor vehicles. Its purpose is to reduce deaths and injuries to motor vehicle occupants caused by vehicle fires, especially those originating in the interior of the vehicle from sources such as matches or cigarettes."

Society of Automotive Engineers #SAE J386

SAE #J386 - Operator Restraint System for Off-Road Work Machines -"This SAE Standard establishes the minimum performance requirements for pelvic restraint systems (seat belts, anchorages, and the fastening elements of seat belts) necessary to restrain an operator or rider within a roll-over protective structure (ROPS) in the event of a machine roll-over, as defined in ISO 3471, or tip-over protection structure (TOPS), in the event of a machine tip over as defined in ISO 12117. This SAE Standard applies to off-road, self-propelled work machines fitted with ROPS as specified in ISO 3471, TOPS as specified in ISO 12117 and operator restraint."
 
#18 ·
I thought I would offer some clarification as to why we state "with most manufactured or assembled in the USA" and not made in the USA or all assembled in the USA.

According to the FTC in order to say "Made In The USA" with out qualifications, the product must be all or virtually all made in the USA. To qualify under the FTC quidelines for virtually made in the USA the majority of the components used in the final assembly must have been actually made in the USA.

At this time I am not personall aware of any major seat belt manufacture that does not receive their retractors from overseas which would make it impossible for a retractable lap belt to be "Made In The USA" since the majority of the components which would be the retractor is not made in the USA.

Andover Restraints is one of the largest if not the largest supplyies or completed seat belts and seat belt componets since 1985 and I have been with Andover for over 25 years and it is unfortunate but I am not aware of any seat belt manufacture that can state that all the products that they sell or manufacture can comply with the Made In USA quidelines.

We do offer some seat belts and related products that do comply with Made in The USA but since we supply seat belts for more than one make or model on the same page that the products that are "Made In The USA" are listed some products are listed would not comply with the Made in USA quidelines so we have determined that using "most" is a more correct way to advertise our products.


Paul
 
#40 ·
Re: New Design Morris Classic Seat Belts

Ll
Here is an up to date picture of our 3 point retractable seat belts. Also a picture of the GM Mark of Excellence female ends.

Billy
I've got these and they are good products.. I didn't buy the rears yet, still wanting to hook up 3 points for the rear..
 
#21 ·
Billy,

Just curious. If someone was to buy a set of your belts, could they get the metal parts first, have them powdercoated a color or their choice, and then returned to you for final assembly? Just thinking of the belt brackets and the extension loop (lower)...

I run Light Blue belts, and I know I'd rather have those pieces match the interior/webbing, rather than just "black"... Retractor and roof bracket covers can be painted...
 
#22 · (Edited)
Seat Belt Bracket Color

Tony,

We could have the brackets powder coated the color you want then assembled & shipped to you . Which would be a lot less in shipping costs and time for you.

I can't send out a set of brackets without the seat belt reels as I don't know what type of reel that someone might mount it to , Then I would have an uncontrolled liability.

Not saying or insinuating you would do this but some people would so they could have 3 points in their car Cheaper with some other companies seat belt assembly and attaching bracket in the roof which would not be of a Quality that we think is Safe.
Safety is our Main Concern!!


Billy
 
#23 ·
Just received my Morris Classic 3-point and rear lap belts for my 70'... Great people to deal with, VERY NICE product, prompt shipping, etc, and I pray I never have to find out how well they work... I would imagine that a company that makes/assembles/sells vehicle safety equipment, especially in the U.S.A. would have to follow certain guidelines/testing in order to sell their product. That said, I would rather trust an American that oversees the process and stands behind their product 100%. A lot of people these days base the quality of a business from their website unfortunately... Morris- Would you be interested in a website overhaul?
 
#26 · (Edited)
I would imagine that a company that makes/assembles/sells vehicle safety equipment, especially in the U.S.A. would have to follow certain guidelines/testing in order to sell their product.

Do these overseas manufactured belt retractors come with documentation showing they pass the FVMSS standards ??
There's nothing on Morris Classic website and I haven't gotten a direct answer yet.
If they do, then I'm absolutely satisfied with that question being answered. :hurray:....however if not....

Generally speaking here....
There's plenty of Helmets you can buy in the United States as a motorcycle rider that aren't DOT or SNELL approved.
They crack like an egg if they hit the pavement even at low speeds. So yes, there's alot of things sold in the US
not meeting official safety spec's. There's also $20 seat belts all over Ebay. :noway:

So far I've asked this question directed to Morris and it wasn't answered directly......
They say they're tested and come out as "Gorilla's" but I'm asking specifically about Federal certifications with the overseas retractors.
That said, I would rather trust an American that oversees the process and stands behind their product 100%.
A lot of people these days base the quality of a business from their website unfortunately... Morris- Would you be interested in a website overhaul?
I agree with this 100%.
I'm one of those people. If there's a claim that a product does XYZ, I'd like to see that claim in writing for legal purposes in case it's faulty.

Verbal certifications don't fly in court if a product doesn't live up to its claims.
I guess I am what some call a tough consumer who wants to be assured.
 
#27 ·
Seat belts

Did you look at the link at Pro-touring that was in the e-mails?? You want
to be assured of a Safe Product then look at the Camaro on the pro-touring web page.Those photos should reveal to anyone that Morris Classic Concepts makes a Safe Product.If you have trouble making a decision after looking at those pictures there is no way I or anyone else can help you to make a logical decision.

Some of the components are made overseas just as other manfactures do. Our seat belt Retractors are Assembled , Sewn and Tested in the USA.
As I said before Tested Weekly and if any lot number on any part is changed then that part is tested.

Seat belts are a Safety Device after it leaves our shop we have no way of Guaranteeing the safety of a Returned Seat belt Assembly. The invite is still good come by and see us and compare.

The only constructive thing in all these e-mails for me is that it has been brought to our attention is that our web administrator omitted from the previous web page the Fact that our our seat belts and attaching meet or exceed FMVSS standards. Billy
 
#28 ·
Re: Seat belts

Where is this pro-touring page you're referring to on www.pro-touring.com ??

I'm a member and it's a large forum and I don't know what you're referring to.
A crash of some kind is what your PM said.

This one doesn't show much
http://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?84309-My-Camaro-Wreck-amp-State-Farm-Insurance

The only constructive thing in all these e-mails for me is that it has been brought to our attention is that our web administrator omitted from the previous web page the Fact that our our seat belts and attaching meet or exceed FMVSS standards. Billy
That's what I was asking.
So now I can lay that to rest for the comparison.
 
#30 ·
So it seems like both brands in question here are produced in much the same way and pass the same tests, so what makes the Morris $120 better? The implication in the post above seems to be that paying less means you don't love your family, which sort of rubs me the wrong way, but that aside if they are objectively better then perhaps they are worth the extra cost.
"You get what you pay for" is a worn out and fallacious statement with no place in an objective merit-based discussion. I need new belts, but so far it looks like both brands are ultimately more or less the same.
 
#31 ·
I don't know if the other seat belts are of the same quality or tested as often as our manufacture does. Ask the company when their seat belts have been tested and what dictates a test of their product.

Don't take what I said out of context .I was replying to a guys question about the dollar issue and comparing our seat belts to other companies.
Only you the customer can decide what you will buy and how much you will spend for any item. Our seat belts cost $105.00 more and include the eschelon covers stainless steel brackets and Grade 8 bolts and are year and car specific.
It is a Fact that Morris Classic Concepts seat belts held the driver in the seat and saved his life. Look at the post on Pro-touring .com. Show us a wreck of another manufactures seat belts to compare to a real life test like our seat belts were subjected to and also most importantly the attaching hardware.
GM used grade 7 Bolts we use Grade 8 other companies use Grade 5 .Why would a company use a lesser grade of bolt to attach the seat belts to the vehicle than GM??
We strive to make a Safe & Affordable 3 Point seat belt system for classic cars. I want to Thank Everyone for your positive comments and purchasing our products.
Billy
So it seems like both brands in question here are produced in much the same way and pass the same tests, so what makes the Morris $120 better? The implication in the post above seems to be that paying less means you don't love your family, which sort of rubs me the wrong way, but that aside if they are objectively better then perhaps they are worth the extra cost.
"You get what you pay for" is a worn out and fallacious statement with no place in an objective merit-based discussion. I need new belts, but so far it looks like both brands are ultimately more or less the same.
 
#34 · (Edited)
Seatbelts

As I said before We won't get into bashing other vendors just stating the things we observe. Look in the headliner our seat belts mount and look like factory using the factory style cover not a strap with a single stud.. Also our seat belts have a soft lanyard that hangs down for a more comfortable fit
You are still looking at Price. Look at the installed appearance .

Question about stainless steel brackets: We like using stainless steel because of its corrosion resistance and we powder coat because people thought we were being cheap by not painting our brackets.We use a duplicate of the GM bracket that is in the roof that bolts in with 2 -5/16 bolts and the strap is sewn around the bracket..

Parts left over: Our kits are preassembled ready to bolt in, no wondering what brackets ,spacers or what ever to use.

Did you look at the pictures? www.pro-touring.com at the wreck. It is most evident that our stainless steel brackets are Safe.

Like I stated before You Choose. Billy
 
#38 ·
Seat belts

The main fact is that our complete set up saved the guys life. We changed to the soft sash for cosmetics.The soft sash is made out of the same material as the seat belt assembly so both pieces would have the same strength.

We improve our products for added Safety and Appearance
Billy
 
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