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best off shelf motor oil with zinc content

157K views 50 replies 28 participants last post by  SWHEATON 
#1 ·
What's the most available motor oil with enough zinc in a 40 or 50 weight ?
Thanks.
 
#7 ·
DO NOT USE THE NEWER CJ RATED SHEEL ROTELLA 15w-40FOR FLAT TAPPET CAM PROTECTION,THE ZDDP HAS BEEN REDUCED TO UNDER 1200PPM in the newer CJ rate shelle rotella 15w-40 which is below the rec lvl to properly protect a perf flat tappet cam. The older CI rated shell rotella 15w-40 is still ok to use for flat tappet cam protection but if you already have the newer CJ oil in the motor use some gm eos or crane superlube breakin concentrate with the newer shell CJ rated 15w-40 oil with reduced ZDDP you should be ok.

As far as oils to use with decent zddp lvls for flat tappet cam breakin and post cam breakin here are a few (conventional unless otherwise noted) oils that tested as having a minimum of or above of approx 1200ppm Zn which is required for aftermarket flat tappet perf cam protection.

* SHELL ROTELLA SINGLE GRADE 30WT

* CHEVRON DELO 400 LE 15W-40 (APPROVED BY MFG FOR GAS & DIESEL ENGINES)

* CASTROL TRUCK & 4X4 SYN BLEND 15W-40 (NOT DIESEL OIL)

* LUBRIPLATE GPO 15W-40 OIL (BUY ONLINE DIRECT FROM MFG)

* PENNZOIL GT 25W-50 RACING OIL

* VALVOLINE NSL/NOT STREET LEGAL 20W-50 (ORDER FROM NAPA/SUMMITT/JEGS)

* ROYAL PURPLE FULL SYN 10W-30

SCOTT
On page seven...
 
#11 ·
Personally - I'm done with the Rotella experiment - it's only cost me two cams.

I'm going with Valvoline from this point forward.


From the Valvoline website..




Bulletin: 2008-003a
Date: June 2008

Many hands-on car enthusiasts and engine experts believe the lower levels of zinc in “SM” engine oil is causing excessive wear in older style push-rod and flat tappet engines. This is despite the fact that all new engine oil classifications are intended to be backward compatible. This has resulted in the widely accepted belief that modern engine oil is not adequate to protect older engines.
Consumer Solutions
There are high-zinc engine oils available to meet this need. It is important to note, however, that the entire additive package still needs to be balanced for best performance. For example, engine oil with a high zinc level but low detergent may not perform over a drain interval of 3,000 miles or longer.
Valvoline offers two solutions to the zinc issue
Valvoline Racing VR1: 75% higher zinc than SM engine oil with a balanced additive package designed to work in both racing and street-legal applications. This product will protect older style push-rod and flat tappet engines. Valvoline provides this product in both multi and mono viscosity grades: SAE 20W-50 (part vv211), straight SAE 50 (part vv235), SAE 10W-30 (part vv205), SAE 30(part vv223), SAE 40 (part vv229), and SAE 60 (part vv241)
Longer-Lasting Zinc/Phosphorus: Valvoline uses an advanced zinc/phosphorus additive that keeps higher levels of phosphorus in the engine oil where it protects the engine, instead of poisoning the catalytic converter. Valvoline is the only brand offering this unique additive across its entire line of passenger car engine oils, including SynPower which is the only synthetic offering this additive. www.valvoline.com
 
#12 ·
Personally - I'm done with the Rotella experiment - it's only cost me two cams.

I'm going with Valvoline from this point forward.


From the Valvoline website..




Bulletin: 2008-003a
Date: June 2008
Many hands-on car enthusiasts and engine experts believe the lower levels of zinc in “SM” engine oil is causing excessive wear in older style push-rod and flat tappet engines. This is despite the fact that all new engine oil classifications are intended to be backward compatible. This has resulted in the widely accepted belief that modern engine oil is not adequate to protect older engines.
Consumer Solutions
There are high-zinc engine oils available to meet this need. It is important to note, however, that the entire additive package still needs to be balanced for best performance. For example, engine oil with a high zinc level but low detergent may not perform over a drain interval of 3,000 miles or longer.
Valvoline offers two solutions to the zinc issue
Valvoline Racing VR1: 75% higher zinc than SM engine oil with a balanced additive package designed to work in both racing and street-legal applications. This product will protect older style push-rod and flat tappet engines. Valvoline provides this product in both multi and mono viscosity grades: SAE 20W-50 (part vv211), straight SAE 50 (part vv235), SAE 10W-30 (part vv205), SAE 30(part vv223), SAE 40 (part vv229), and SAE 60 (part vv241)
Longer-Lasting Zinc/Phosphorus: Valvoline uses an advanced zinc/phosphorus additive that keeps higher levels of phosphorus in the engine oil where it protects the engine, instead of poisoning the catalytic converter. Valvoline is the only brand offering this unique additive across its entire line of passenger car engine oils, including SynPower which is the only synthetic offering this additive. www.valvoline.com
Were they flat tappet or rollers?
 
#13 · (Edited)
Boy,you can lead a horse to water but you sure cant mak it drink.(LOL!!!)

AGAIN FOR THE 40TH TIME,THE NEWER CJ RATED SHEEL ROTELLA IS NOT ANY GOOD FOR SAFE FLAT TAPPET CAM PROTECTION ANYMORE SO WHY CHANCE USING IT WHEN THERE ARE OILS WITH BETTER ZDDP LVLS,I GUESS JUST PLAIN OLD STUBBORN AS HELL (LOL!!!!) IT'S THE OLDER CI RATED ROTELLA THAT WAS OK,NOT THE NEWER CJ.

,I HAD THE ROTELLA CJ 15W-40 TESTED 2X AND IT TESTED BELOW 1100PPM BOTH TIMES,HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU PAY TO HAVE IT TESTED? (I BET NONE/SQUAT)I AM STATING FATCS HERE FROM MULT OIL TESTS I HAD DONE,NOT JUST SOMETHING I THINK IS ONE WAY OR ANOTHER?

Approx 1200-1300ppm zddp is the stated minimum required for stock to mild perf flat tappet cam protection AND THE ROTELLA DOESNT CUT IT ANYMORE,PERIOD.

But the new cj delo 15w-40 i haD tested had approx 1350ppm zddp which matched the mfg's stated zddp lvl. Approx 1200-1300ppm zddp is the stated minimum required for stock to mild perf flat tappet cam protection.

When tested Pennzoils gt 25-50 gt racing oil had approx 1450-1500ppmzddp,valvolines NSL racing oils showed approx 1200-1250ppm zddp to name a few that er ok with flat tappet cams.

But the valvoline VR1 oils usually tested a smidge lower on zddp then valvolines NSL oils but the VR1 had better detergent pkg then the nsl oils that had sig less detergent. Yes the V1 may had more zddp the todays sm oils but less then the NSL oils on avg when i had it tested.

There are also some partial/full syn oils (Bradd Penn/Joe Gibbs/Royal Purple,etc that have good zddp lvls if you want to run them at 3x the cost in a stock to mild street motor that really doesnt need it with proper maint.

Scott
 
#14 ·
Boy,you can lead a horse to water but you sure cant mak it drink.(LOL!!!)

AGAIN FOR THE 40TH TIME,THE NEWER CJ RATED SHEEL ROTELLA IS NOT ANY GOOD FOR SAFE FLAT TAPPET CAQM PROTECTION ANYMORE SO WHY CHANCE USING IT WHEN THERE ARE OILS WITH BETTER ZDDP LVLS,I GUESS JUST PALIN OLD STUBBRON AS HELL (LOL!!!!) IT'S THE OLDER CI RATED ROTELLA THAT WAS OK,NOT THE NEWER CJ.


Scott


Well, it WAS NOT THE ROTELLA 15w-40. And not CJ rated. It was the single grade 40w for the second cam with GM EOS added. CF-4 / SJ rated.
Read the posts before jumping to conclusions.
 
#17 ·
I myself would not use to comp cams additive for flat tappet protection as it has much less zinc & phos./zddp ,than GM EOS [old or new version] , crane break-in lube, zddp plus or cam shield.
This stuff also has a higher detergent content, not good for break-in of a f/t cam.
The comp stuff has been tested by blackstone,cat and stavley and all tests show very little zddp compared to the others.

3) CRANE SUPER LUBE BREAKIN CONCENTRATE OIL ADDITIVE - 51,960PPM/6,007PPM/1PPM/APPROX 50WT BASE STOCK(BASICALLY SAME #'S AS THE DISCONTINUED GM EOS/IT'S GREAT FOR CAM BREAKIN AND ONGOING CAM PROTECTION POST CAM BREAKIN/THE LOW DETRGENT IS NOT AN ISSUE AT ALL BECAUSE THE OIL HAS PLENTY OF DETERGENT TO TAKE CARE OF CLEANING)

4) COMP CAMS NEW CAM BREAKIN LUBE OIL ADDITIVE - 914PPM/8066PPM/6228PPM(FAILED TO MEET MINIMUM Zn REQ/DETRGENT EXTREEMLY HIGH WHICH CAN STRIP OFF THE ALREADY TOO LOW Zn/APPROX 140WT GEARLUBE LIKE BASE STOCK/I WOULD NOT USE IT)
 
#20 ·
I myself would not use to comp cams additive for flat tappet protection as it has much less zinc & phos./zddp ,than GM EOS [old or new version] , crane break-in lube, zddp plus or cam shield.
This stuff also has a higher detergent content, not good for break-in of a f/t cam.
The comp stuff has been tested by blackstone,cat and stavley and all tests show very little zddp compared to the others.

3) CRANE SUPER LUBE BREAKIN CONCENTRATE OIL ADDITIVE - 51,960PPM/6,007PPM/1PPM/APPROX 50WT BASE STOCK(BASICALLY SAME #'S AS THE DISCONTINUED GM EOS/IT'S GREAT FOR CAM BREAKIN AND ONGOING CAM PROTECTION POST CAM BREAKIN/THE LOW DETRGENT IS NOT AN ISSUE AT ALL BECAUSE THE OIL HAS PLENTY OF DETERGENT TO TAKE CARE OF CLEANING)

4) COMP CAMS NEW CAM BREAKIN LUBE OIL ADDITIVE - 914PPM/8066PPM/6228PPM(FAILED TO MEET MINIMUM Zn REQ/DETRGENT EXTREEMLY HIGH WHICH CAN STRIP OFF THE ALREADY TOO LOW Zn/APPROX 140WT GEARLUBE LIKE BASE STOCK/I WOULD NOT USE IT)
Im not to familiar with the #'s companys post on there sites...I have seen many lie, exagerrate and bash. Im sure as heck not as knowledgeable as alot of people here....learn more everyday. My builder is one of the best and if he uses it and says its good I trust him. He doesnt have a huge following for nothing. He has done hundreds of Flat Tappets since he has been with us with this stuff and not one failure....mild to wild...which would make me think that alot of the time if someone has a cam go flat using it, something happened during the break in procedure. Just my 2 cents.
 
#18 ·
Truckracer, I'd seriously consider having that block checked by someone with a BHJ lifter bore fixture. There must be something wrong with it. Also take the inner springs out next time, if you go back flat tappet. I would think by now you would just throw a roller in it and be done with it. The only reason my motor has one in it, is because the rules say it has too. I know you don't want to hear this, but my motor ran for approx. one minute without oil pressure, since I didn't get the slip collar distributer all the way into the oil pump shaft, I used Rotella, and the comp. additive, all the things everyone is saying not to do, and the cam lived. The only thing different, and I've said this before is the cam is on a P-55 core and I took the inner springs out.
 
#21 ·
Broke in my new cam with Pennzoil racing oil, mail orderd for $35 a case, delivered. Used one bottle of Crane Break-in lube. First change used the Pennzoil with out the additive. I believe this will be fine for life of this engine. Basically about $18-$20 per oil change to use the good oil. No additive needed. The Delo is available over the counter for around $12 per gallon, so it could be used for $16-$18 per oil change. Why bother with anything else? Why use additive once you have broken in a cam?
Here is a link to my oil supplier

http://oilstore.stores.yahoo.net/penrac20.html

Crane or Lucas additive is around $15 per bottle now. I had the $30 off coupon from Summit and should have ordered a case of break-in lube then. It was $148, but would have been $118 with the coupon. But then I realized with the good Pennzoil you don't need the additive.
I thank Scott for all the testing and follow up tests on the same products. He has provided the definitive info.
 
#22 ·
DENNY,AT A QUICK GLANCE I STILL DONT SEE WHERE IT SAYS THE ROTELLA WAS SINGLE GRADE 40WT,MAYBE I MISSED IT ON 1ST PAGE OF THE THREAD BUT ANYWAY SORRY THAT BUGGED YOU SO MUCH.

Wasnt really jumping to conclusions ,when most people here in t/chevelle reffer to the rotella 99 or 100x its the 15w-40 and not the single grade,opp's,right church wrong pew(LOL!!!).

Have a good one....SCOTT
 
#25 ·
Scott - no problem. I know you have done more work and research in this area than anyone else around and then shared with the forum members..
I am more frustrated than anything else over the loss of the cams/motor. Doubly frustrating is the fact I did some research before to try & make sure we were doing the right thing, and the machine shop (who builds some very high dollar racing / offshore stuff) recommended the procedure on the second cam which we followed to a T.

Denny
 
#27 ·
30-A-rider,thanks for the kind words.

I appreaciate the fact you and other t/c'r have noticed my efforts to reduce our flat tappet cam failures here in t/chevelle by getting more people on board with the zddp issues with respect to todays oils along with the cam install pointers i posted too,i hope it has helped in that area.

Oil with good zddp lvl is important for flat tappet cam breakin/longjevity but its not the the only thing thats important.

Proper pre insp of all cam lobes/lifters for scratches/dings/poor maching/defects & proper lube with cranes moly paste or equivilant for install ,proper install inc checking for lifters turning in bores,removing inner springs for cam/lifter breakin on hot cam setups with hi spring rates,prelube of motor with the tool that properly seals the lifter oil galley for full motor prelube prior to fireup are also just as important for a flat tappet cam to make it past breakin and onto a normal hoepfully long life then having an oil with good zddp lvl is along with running gm eos or cranes superlube for breakin is.(PHEW,i know,i got long winded again/LOL!!!)
=======================================================
Darren,i did notice you were kinda pissy at me which i thought was kinda bold with you being a newbe here in T/C . But NP,i understand how frustrating a bad cam be so dont worry about it . As you well know there is alot of time & money goes into these motors we build and it sucks when things go wrong like the bad cam you had. Hang in there and you will eventually get it squared away the next time arround.

Good luck with the the next cam.

Scott
 
#28 ·
FWIW other things to check when installing a cam that can cause lobe failure include: Valve spring coil bind, valve seal to guide interference, and stock type rocker slot not long enough. That last one almost got me but I caught it during assembly. Other must checks are piston to valve clearance, rocker arm geometry (contact sweep on valve), and rocker arm and pushrod clearances (to retainers, guides, etc.).
 
#30 · (Edited)
HI DAVE,thanks for posting that info,if it in fact truely has 1600ppm zddp we are good to go with it in 15w-40 grade.

I have a feeling thats the same oil renamed/pkg'd oil as the MOTOR HEAD CLASSIC 15W-40 is that also claims approx 1600ppm zddp that another classic car club sponsers/sells which has been arround for a while now.

When i get the time and $ like in Nov/Dec i am going to buy some of the Motor Head & Classic Car oils both in 15w-40 grade and have them tested for zddp.

But i would think since these oils were mfg by auto enthusiests specifically for our older motors with flat tappet cams i would expect their calims to be on target for the 1600ppm zddp which is good for us.

I see no reason not to run either on those oil's at this point with a flat tappet cam'd motor.

But it may still be cheaper/easiler to run some cam sheild and or zddplus along with easily attainable over the counter sm oil's sold today which is also a good alternative for the flat tappet cam crowd.

This classic car oil is pricey costs $5.40 per qt inc shipping so some people may opt for the zdp additive and over the counter oil.

For now untill more zddp reductions hit us the chevron delo 15w-40 is still a good choice at approx $11 gal/$2.75 per qt (almost %50 cheaper) and it has 1350ppm zddp per my oil testing. Chevron/delo also claim's approx 1350ppm zddp in that oil so the #'s jive and it's avail in many store's too,its good for stock to middle of the road/moderate flat tappet perf cam protection.

But if someone was running a real hot flat tappet cam with dual springs with real high spring rates it would be worth the additional cost to go for the classic or motor head 15w-40 oil with 1600ppm zddp . Another alt is pennzoils gt 25w-50 racing oil that's approx $3-$4 per qt if i remember corrrectly & has 1500+ppm zddp if a motor's clearances are setup to that thicker grade.

Scott
 
#31 ·
There was an ad in Old Cars Weekly for additive called ZDDP that would bring your favorite oil up to or above SF standards of old.Cost was about $10.
LOTS of info/facts written on this subject on TurboBuick.Com Forums.Richard Clark owns a dozen or so Grand Nationals, and is the man behind this additive.Sorry for the cuss words.
 
#32 ·
you shouldn't add additives to your oil whether it is a zinc/phosphorus or an stabilizer. Let the chemist do their job. The American Petroleum institute (API) has mandated that CJ-4 oils contain less than 1200ppm even though the antiwear level is high for Rotella, diesel engine oil formulations are different than engine oils for gasoline or alcohol-fueled performance engines. The current GF-4 oils be within 600-800ppm while GF-3 was limited to 1000ppm.

If you are doing break in or have a wild cam you can use.
Pennzoil Racing Engine Oils (conventional engine oils) = 1800 ppm
Q Racing Engine Oils (special synthetic engine oils) = 1800 ppm

Since the racing oils are not for on road use they can have a higher zinc/phosphorus level. Remember don't try to play chemist with your oil.
 
#34 ·
Interesting that you said that, If people would do more research and not try to make your own sweep the kitchen oil people may not encounter as much flat tap cam wear. Granted you have to assume the engine builder did everything correct on his part. There are also a lot of variables to be accounted for. Oils of the past were alright but today your have catalytic converter and O2 sensors and and if you have a high zinc/phosphorus the ash will burn and get onto your sensors and cause premature failure. If oils of the past were so good why don't new performance cars or new cars come with straight 30 weight oil? The oils have matured into a better product with the addition of new technologies.
 
#35 ·
Interesting that you said that, If people would do more research and not try to make your own sweep the kitchen oil people may not encounter as much flat tap cam wear. Granted you have to assume the engine builder did everything correct on his part. There are also a lot of variables to be accounted for. Oils of the past were alright but today your have catalytic converter and O2 sensors and and if you have a high zinc/phosphorus the ash will burn and get onto your sensors and cause premature failure. If oils of the past were so good why don't new performance cars or new cars come with straight 30 weight oil? The oils have matured into a better product with the addition of new technologies.
But, Mr. 2 posts, this is not 2008 technology cars we're using here on team Chevelle. It's 1960's flat tappet cam technology, which needs 1960's additive levels. Does your local parts store stock Catalytic converters for your 1968 Chevelle?? :D An O2 sensor for your 1971 Big Block :noway:

Kudos to Scott and his research :yes: :thumbsup:
 
#37 ·
Although this is not a shelf oil and Rotella-T has lower their zinc in 15/40 last year and Brad Penn has done the same so we went to the http://www.cen-pe-co.com/ 15/40 oil that has 2300 PPM of zinc and their 15/40 and 30 wt S-3 oils have 1582 in zinc.

http://www.cen-pe-co.com/ seems to be a very common oil with the engine builders in my area. And it was no problem getting it!!!!!!!!!
 
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