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555" BBC 'pump gas' build

95K views 131 replies 45 participants last post by  aukai 
#1 · (Edited)
This seems to be best '540 BBC' build forum on the net that I can find so what better place is there to add another one. I was led to this site in a search for some info on my 555" one day and have been stuck to it ever since. I am not a Chevelle owner but it seems many are not either. I will post the progresss of my 555" build going together, my dyno results, and then the track times in the car, which BTW is early shoebox Nova.

I have been acquiring parts for several years now for this and many are left over from a blown alcohol 509 BBC effort for a rear engine dragster that I have since sold. I am a little more liberal than most when it comes to what I can street drive. My car does not have P.S. or P.B. and is quite a bit lighter than many so I can get by with some more radical parts, at least IMO.:) The goal is mid 9's on motor and mid 8's on the N20.:thumbsup:

I will try to add lots of pics of my progress starting with these.

Comments or suggestions welcome.









 
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#5 ·
Yes, the bolt for the rocker stands protrudes into each of the intake ports on all 8 runners. Once I figure the shim thickness necessary for the stands I will torque them in place and go in there with a carbide burr and blend them into the port.

Alot of the pieces are high end, but I didn't buy them all at once. A little here, little there. Many were originally going to be used in a 1500 HP blown alcohol 509. I'm tired of sitting on them, time to put them to use!

Pffft! Whats up with the low-budget stuff man? :p


Just kiddin, VERY nice pieces you have there. The last pic looks fantastic.
You planning on grinding the stud down where it hangs or leaving as is ?

Keep us posted with more pics!!
 
#4 · (Edited)
I have some more pics to add. First step was a trial fit of all the components so I wouldn't run into any surprises through the process.
I had a friend bush the lifters and size them to .9045" with his BHJ fixture, no pics of that process taken as it was outside the shop.
Step 1 was size the cylinders so the pistons would fit.
I bored the block to 4.556" and honed it with the ARP studs torqued to 80ft. lbs with Felpro MLS gaskets and some huey alumunium torque plates.:yes:
Bore is 4.560" for this build.





Step 2 was line hone the mains as they were .0007" tight




I sized the small ends of the rods to get .001" pin to rod clearance, they came at .0007" out of the box.

 
#6 ·
A few more pics of a preliminary mock up.
Miles of rotating clearance in the block. No grinding necessary. Crank e/p was .007". Piston to deck was .004" after square decking the block .015". Looking for a quench of about .045"







 
#7 ·
I installed the Dart 360's to check P to V and rocker geometry, yes I said 360cc heads will be used as they were one of the original items from the blown alcohol build. These are older castings from 1999, but Ron's Porting in St. Louis did them up very nice. Flow numbers on these are better than the current Pro 1 355 CNC models. I will post them later when I have the sheets in front of me. They are BIG, but I have light car and plan to spray a decent amount, I don't think they will hamper my goals, NA or on the bottle.

I have several cams to chose from that I will mention specs on later, still trying to decide what to use. I am using T&D rockers with a 1.8/1.75 combo which will put me at a 'net' lift of approxiamtely .800". I did say my idea of a street driven engine was little different than some didn't I?:) This is just going to be a toy with most of the emphasis placed on performance, believe it or not, with a budget in mind. I didn't have the luxury to go and buy the latest, greatest heads or build a bigger inch engine on a wim, I have had many of these parts for many years now and it is what it is. I have decided to build this 555" 'pump gas' effort engine.













All in all, everything fits pretty well. I need to clearnace the pushrod holes in the heads to run the 7/16" pushrod tubes, set the rocker stand heights after deciding on the camshaft and do some other little massaging but not as bad as I expected.
 
#9 ·
Very nice,, :thumbsup:
Great pics, shows some of the work involved in doing this stuff correctly even with some of the best of parts
They don't exactly fall together :D

One thing I would be concerned with is those screens, I don't like restricting the return that much but I think I mentioned that on Speedtalk a while back when you were asking about the lifters?

Looks like this is going to be a killer "street deal" :beers:
 
#17 ·
Yes, I since decided to set it to the side, I don't want to take any chances. I didn't realize only being an enthusiast that these and restrictors were tricks from yesteryear. Who am I kidding anyway, if I broke it I would take it all the way out and apart to check it out. Yes, they never ever just bolt together, there is always something. I am sure you know just a little about that.

Going through a very similar build right now. Takes LOTS of time and you have to measure and check everything 3 times at least. Nothing fits the first time around perfectly when it's all new stuff.

Looking forward to the rest of the build and your results!

JIM
Isn't that the truth, I don't know how these builders make it. I really enjoy doing this stuff and think I would be pretty good at it, but I don't know how I would bring home a paycheck. The equipment costs and time and detail would kill me. Maybe oneday if I struck the lottery.....

Helicoil,

Very nice build! :thumbsup:

I agree with Mike Lewis on the valley screen though.
Yes, it's outta there, that was an earlier thought.

Looks like the exhaust side of those Dart 360's have been worked over a lot. Compared to the exhaust side of my ProOne 310's, those exhaust ports are huge. Thanks for posting/sharing detailed pics. Kind of funny. You are building out 15 CI more displacement for a lite wt car to run in the 9's, I am building a very similiar yet detuned version that I hope to keep down around 625-650HP when done.
The heads have been qorked over a fair amount. Many say the older Dart 360's didn't perform well..... I guess I'll see, I remember from 5 years ago when I had them done Ron said they were one of the best sets he had ever turned out. After all the years he finally had his CNC program tweaked I suppose. The numbers on them are very strong.

hello, what intake is that.? looks like the one that may have (rheer-morrison) cast into it.also are you using the felpro blue gaskets as in the picture or a multi-layer gasket. and last question, did you buy a new dart block, and have to machine on it?
Yes, it is the CNC/Reher Morrison Super Victor. I have spent several hours on it since I took out of the box. I used a set of MLS gaskets we had in the hone cabinet for machining because I plan to run them, the Felpro blues I had opened for mock-up purposes, they are the same thickness. I didn't want to take the Felpro MLS's out of the package until it was time.

Yes, the Dart blocks are real nice, however every hole in them will need to be sized before final assembly, they are not ready to go pieces. Also, the deck on mine was tall and not square. I believe it measured 9.803" on one side. It too needed machined.

Sweet Jesus! It's like someone read my mind and nearly assembled my dream engine! Great build! Great Pics! Keep up the good work. Some day when I grow up ( probably after the kids exit college over a decade from now) I would love to do a similar build. I think 9's on grunt and 8's on the hose are going to be pretty darn easy. Sweet, Sweet build!
haha thanks, the time is ripe for me. Its do time, or it'll never get together. My kids are 1 and 2 1/2 and I need to get it done before they get any older.
 
#10 ·
Going through a very similar build right now. Takes LOTS of time and you have to measure and check everything 3 times at least. Nothing fits the first time around perfectly when it's all new stuff.

Looking forward to the rest of the build and your results!

JIM
 
#12 · (Edited)
Makes my Champagne (Thunder bird) budget seem a little reserved.:(
 
#13 ·
Looks like the exhaust side of those Dart 360's have been worked over a lot. Compared to the exhaust side of my ProOne 310's, those exhaust ports are huge. Thanks for posting/sharing detailed pics. Kind of funny. You are building out 15 CI more displacement for a lite wt car to run in the 9's, I am building a very similiar yet detuned version that I hope to keep down around 625-650HP when done.
 
#15 ·
Sweet Jesus! It's like someone read my mind and nearly assembled my dream engine! Great build! Great Pics! Keep up the good work. Some day when I grow up ( probably after the kids exit college over a decade from now) I would love to do a similar build. I think 9's on grunt and 8's on the hose are going to be pretty darn easy. Sweet, Sweet build!
 
#18 · (Edited)
After checking mock up and making notes I was able to dis-assemble and begin the balancing process. Before that I did a little de-burring on the pistons and checked the crank sizes.















 
#19 ·
A suggestion on your scale
If you want repeatabilitly you really need to invest in dedicated inserts for both ends of each rod
Without them you are going to be chasing your tail as you can make the scale read ±5 grams sometimes just biasing the rod in either direction

Like so
This is a modified ABS one that I extended the chains on for even better repeatability
 
#20 ·
Thanks Mike, I have looked at those inserts, just never pulled the trigger. I get good repeatability with what we got, although it can be finicky, like anything. Believe me, as anal as I am, I have to have repeatability.
 
#21 ·
The billet I-beam Oliver rods are somewhat heavy so the crank needed wieght on both ends to internal balance. Quite a little job for a 1600.00 crank.
The crank needed a 3/4" piece of Mallory installed in the front and the back of the crank.



 
#23 · (Edited)
Here is where things get a little complicated for me in my head. Camshafts! I understand them fine, the problem is that there are too many options unless you know of a tried and true, proven combo. Even dyno numbers can be misleading to performance numbers in the car. This is the reason I currently have 3 for this engine.:) SO after doing homework on the subject for sometime I have 3 to choose from that I can't seem to make up my mind about.

Early on I had thought about MAX NA HP only,then as time lingered on and I mini-tubbed the car I decided i was going to run some N20 and then as more time went on I decided I want to go in the 8's again, but this time with something I can drive around a bit. I realized this would take a decent amount of N20. Not wanting to sacrifice much NA performance I can't decide if a dedicated N20 grind cam is for me, so I have a compromise cam as I like to call it.

So here are the 3 cams I have. There is one listed that after searching around on this site reading multiple different threads I have found some others using a variation of. Can't recall names right now, I believe John (69 Chev truck), with a much milder head combo hit a little over 800 HPNA on Larry Meaux's dyno and then there was another recently I just read about....A white 70 SS running 6.20's @ 109 1/8th and 10.01 @ 136 MPH 1/4 at 3750llbs. So this first cam seems to work pretty well and seems it would hit my initial goals. Weird thing is I got this cam back in late 2006 as a custom grind from Jay and it seems it works well for many with street driving 540 or bigger BBC's

(Goals at bottom of page)

It is a grind from Jay Allen. Specs are as follows.

295/310 duration @ .020"
265/280 duration @ .050"
189/201 duration @ .200"
lsa 109
icl 107
.821/.752 gross lift
Peak HP @ 6200, shift @ 6800 RPM

This was my first thought about a max NA power cam.

The second thought was a N20 dedicated grind.
This is one that a reliable source at Comp Cams spec'd for me and my combo.
This is a 4/7 swap version.
309/330 duration .020"
276/292 duration .050"
190/196 duration .200"
lsa 115
icl 112
.786/735 gross lift
Lobe masters are 4268 (int) and 1484 (exh)

The third and most recent cam is one from UDHarold (the man)
I call it the compromise. This is also a 4/7 swap.
302/316 duration .020"
274/288 duration .050"
199/211 duration .200"
lsa 112
icl 108
.817/.795

My heads flow the following air with no intake installed.
@.200" 185/142
@.300" 260/183
@.400" 321/214
@.500" 357/251
@.600" 389/282
@.700" 406/298
@.800" 420/307
@.850" 426/314
@.900" 429/320

The rest of my combo is

555" BBC
10.6:1 comp ratio
Super Victor + 1" spacer (ported)
2 1/8" to 2 1/4" stepped headers 4" collector
1050 cfm Dominator or a 1290 cfm Pro Systems Nitrous Pro IV Dominator
RPM 7000-7500 on N20

Car is 3300lbs give or take 50#. 28" x 10.5" MT ET Drag with ladder bars/coil overs and a decent chassis. 4:11 gear. I currently have a PG, but am wanting to use a TH400, maybe even the Rossler 2.10 version. Converter is yet to be decided as I will have my dyno results before deciding, but most likely something in the 4500 range MAX. I am looking at a 300HP hit between two nozzle systems to avoid breaking the tires loose.



Interested in hearing comments or suggestions from those who have built similar engines or raced similar combos. I figure I will need 800 HP NA to get into the mid 9's during marginal air consistently and 1200 HP to run 8.50's
 
#26 ·
VERY nice build :thumbsup::yes:

And you should have no problems achieving your goals...........
As my little 10.5:1 pump gas 496, in a 3600# barge, is gettin it done.:D
 
#27 ·
That inner head stud with the aluminum block...where did you get it? Part number?


I think the N20 part will change cam choice since you have some serious stuff there it looks like. Normally I would just say cam for N/A...but you appear to be getting pretty serious with the juice.

For N/A with 10.6 compression, the last two cams look pretty big. For example I used an Engle 272/278 on a 110 with .731/.731 in my 540 and it wasn't peaking until 7400 rpm. I ran it that way for a couple of years, but the current 266/272 on a 112 is MUCH faster and gets power in the RPM range I run in. I'm using a 1.8/1.7 rocker setup for adv .774/.731 lift. I still cross the traps at just under 7500 rpm...but power hangs on fine.

Also have to decide what kind of maintenance you like to do. My springs are 5+ years old with lots of street and race miles. On paper the Engles don't look as wild..but I can't complain with how they run.


JIM
 
#34 · (Edited)
That inner head stud with the aluminum block...where did you get it? Part number?




I think the N20 part will change cam choice since you have some serious stuff there it looks like. Normally I would just say cam for N/A...but you appear to be getting pretty serious with the juice.

For N/A with 10.6 compression, the last two cams look pretty big. For example I used an Engle 272/278 on a 110 with .731/.731 in my 540 and it wasn't peaking until 7400 rpm. I ran it that way for a couple of years, but the current 266/272 on a 112 is MUCH faster and gets power in the RPM range I run in. I'm using a 1.8/1.7 rocker setup for adv .774/.731 lift. I still cross the traps at just under 7500 rpm...but power hangs on fine.

Also have to decide what kind of maintenance you like to do. My springs are 5+ years old with lots of street and race miles. On paper the Engles don't look as wild..but I can't complain with how they run.


JIM
Dart sells them, back when I got mine they wern't that bad 50.00 or so, I guess that is kind of pricey for 4 studs, nuts and washers. The shoes are steel, not aluminum and the holes you drill in the heads go straight into the intake runners. I believe they were on an 11* angle. torque is 50 ft. lbs.



This has been my dilmema I will admit. Cam decisions... I really like the shorter 265 intake duration on the Jay Allen grind for the 'street' part of the package. Although the reality is at 3300lbs and with a 4500 conv. plus maybe a 3-spd, my gut tells there will be nothing lazy about the other two at 4000 RPM or even lower. This goes by in a blink once you mash the gas.
I am a high maintenance individual, keeping up on springs is O.K. with me. Changed many in the engine bay before. As at .800 net lift I know they will wear down. If I need to rev to 7800 I want to be able to. I have an 11/32" 2.300 stainless intake valve that has been necked down in the center, but it is still heavy. Regular RPM much over 7500 RPM would not be wise.

I am not going to spray much over 400HP on this set-up. Don't let the intake lead you to think otherwise. There are good reasons I have gone this way.... - two foggers. I don't like controllers for one. With two systems I can avoid having to get greedy on the line. Plus the foggers will be much more tuneable and provide much better distribution.
Thanks for the input, your car runs good, watched the vids!

You probably have too much gear in it, 4.11's with that small tire is going to see some serious rpms at the strip, not too mention all the tq the nitrous is going to make. That turbo 400 on a small tire with a 555 on squeeze might be a challenge to get the first 60'.

No reason to run a nitrous cam with a 300 hit, that is a sneeze for a 555. I do not think 15 * more on the exhaust is neccasary either. I would shoot for something like Jim (540 Hotrod) said 266/272-maybe 275 with as much lift as you are comfortable with. Put it on a 114 (112 ICL) it will drive better on the street and the nitrous will appreciate it.


Have you run nitrous before ? Know how to read nitrous plugs ? You have one of the three best guys in the business (Steve Johnson / Induction Solutions) helping you on the Foggers. Do you have tunes for the Foggers, two stages ?


What is the compression hieght on the pistons ? Did I miss what kind of rings you are using ?


If the car hooks and goes straight 8.50's will be doable.
What fuel are you going to run on nitrous?
Yes, I did think about the 4.11 and 1/4 mile racing, probably not a good idea. Presently it is what the car has in it, is all.

Thanks for your suggestions, but one of the three have to go in. Not buying another.:) Just curious if you have ran something like you have mentioned. I don't think it would clean out the cylinder on a 555" on 300+HP. With a 4" collector, street exhaust (4") and the smaller header at 1200HP flywheel the 15* split was decided amongst all guys to be necessary. My heads flow about 70-73% I/E on average, something to think about.

Yes, I have starting tune-ups. I have also been looking at plugs a long time. I did run a NOS cross-bar plate on my 400" SBC in this same car a few years back set-up on two stages 125HP (thru low gear) and 225HP (on top of the 125HP in High gear). Went from 11.30's to 9.60's spinning all over the track on little 26 X 8.5" slicks with a 108 lsa camshaft to boot. 20 years ago I was the first in my high school to buy a NOS powershot 125HP kit and put on my buddy's BBC 70 Camaro..... we sniped alot of guys back in the day being kids..... and the car only ran 12.20's on N50's. lol

JE custom piston, .300" top land, .170" 2nd. 1.270" CD with a tool steel pin. I should be plenty safe at 400HP and the 10.6:1 with good fuel and a good tune up. I am not expecting to have to lean on it hard.
Hellfire Rings 1/16", 1/16", 3/16" standard oil tension

Wondering if C-16 will be adequate.....

Thoughts and comments welcomed and appreciated. I know the camshaft topic is a 'highly' opinionated one. ;)

Here we go....300HP is only a *sneeze*! Man......glad I'm not addicted to that stuff....I'd be like a crack head and looking for the 600HP shot!!

It appears that we can go WAY up on the N20 hit if needed right?

Are the pistons designed for N20 with regards to deck and ring placement?
JIM
Yes they are, only looking to go 400HP though, not wanting to beat the snot of it. I have a couple of tune-ups. Both are small on stage 1 (150HP to 175HP).

helicoil, is that car weight with you or without you in the drivers seat? The T-400 is o.k. if you reduce the rear end gear (try 3.50s) and go with Rossler's TH-400XHD transmission. We have broken the regular turbos and beefed up T-400's too; usually the sprag. You have a lot of nitrous for only wanting to spray 300-400 h.p. shots. You may need extra electrical generating capacity if you use two foggers. One fogger can easily supply 600 h.p. levels of nitrous, going to two puts a lot of extra strain on the alternator and charging system. Be sure to get enough generating capacity to supply the voltage and current at low to moderate engine speeds. Most engines burn up because the solenoids drop out and the engine's tune go way rich (lifts the ring lands) or way lean (burns a hole in the middle of the piston). The way lean condition usually burns the tips of the spark plugs off first, but the way rich condition only creates some black exhaust smoke and is much harder to detect, until engine damage occurs. I agree with John that a 300 shot is real easy on everything. I disagree with John on the best cam. The extra duration on the exhaust lobe keeps the combustion chamber "cooler" in the event that the mixture gets off a little. I like the second cam the best. A rich mixture burns slower and longer and may even still be burning when it exits the combustion chamber which is what lifts the ring lands if it gets too rich. It's only external sign is the headers will overheat too and discolor if they are ceramic coated (they get kind off a frosty color). I'd plug one of the foggers, if it were mine, and run more juice in the other one. Small nitrous tunes in a fogger are kind of dangerous because the jets are so small that they sometimes get clogged with small particles of dirt or debris and then you hurt something. Steve Johnson will know about any of this information and may correct me if i've steered you in the wrong direction. My son runs a much simpler setup but is on the edge with it. Most organization have started running eighth mile vinues because it is much easier to get a nitrous engine to live on the eighth mile.
Yes, 3300lbs, maybe 3350 with me in it. Guesstimating..... It is a 66 Deuce. I don't know the exact weight as I haven't assembled it yet, I do know that Dart Big M is a tank at 265lbs dry. I am basing stuff off of my Outlaw 10.5 Nova, it was all steel minus a glass hood and front bumper.

I was looking at the Rossler TH-400XHD, do you run it? I have seen you post on other threads as well as this one about your son's car. Good first hand experience. I feel the two foggers will provide with excellent tune-ability and be safer than any plate set-up. As mentioned, I am not fond of the controllers, and without a doubt 8noids will draw more current than 4, along with electric fans, a digital 7530 box, HVC coil, at least 2 electric pumps, etc. etc. A 100A alternator goes quick.....As with all of this, maintenance and cleanliness are a critcial part of the game.

Good point about smaller jets and restrictions. I remember on my first 6-71 blown 350 with an Enderle bug when I switched from top only nozzles to ports they were only in the .022" thru .028" range from front to back. I was only making 15lbs of boost in those days. My point being those were tiny holes.

Isn't that the truth:yes:....the back 1/8th is hard on parts. It is alot easier to get something tuned for first 1/8th. The same buddy I put the N20 on back in high school ran an Outlaw 10.5 car up until 2004. He was blown/alky injected 477" making 40-44lbs on good runs in the high 4's. We lit it up more than once at 500'!:D Learning of course!

BTW, there is good reason I worked with Steve Johnson on the N20:thumbsup:
 
#28 ·
You probably have too much gear in it, 4.11's with that small tire is going to see some serious rpms at the strip, not too mention all the tq the nitrous is going to make. That turbo 400 on a small tire with a 555 on squeeze might be a challenge to get the first 60'.

No reason to run a nitrous cam with a 300 hit, that is a sneeze for a 555. I do not think 15 * more on the exhaust is neccasary either. I would shoot for something like Jim (540 Hotrod) said 266/272-maybe 275 with as much lift as you are comfortable with. Put it on a 114 (112 ICL) it will drive better on the street and the nitrous will appreciate it.

Have you run nitrous before ? Know how to read nitrous plugs ? You have one of the three best guys in the business (Steve Johnson / Induction Solutions) helping you on the Foggers. Do you have tunes for the Foggers, two stages ?

What is the compression hieght on the pistons ? Did I miss what kind of rings you are using ?

If the car hooks and goes straight 8.50's will be doable.
What fuel are you going to run on nitrous?
 
#29 ·
Here we go....300HP is only a *sneeze*! Man......glad I'm not addicted to that stuff....I'd be like a crack head and looking for the 600HP shot!!

It appears that we can go WAY up on the N20 hit if needed right?

Are the pistons designed for N20 with regards to deck and ring placement?

JIM
 
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