Hello all,

I have a base model 69 Camaro coup. The car started life as a 327/210hp & powerglide tranny & 8.2" peg-leg rear with 2.73 gears and monoleaf suspension. When I first got the car, the performance was....well, VERY LAME!!! to put it politely.... So far I have:

1. Swapped the Powerglide for a TH350 with Trans-go shiftkit (major improvement)

2. replaced the 2 bbl. cast iron intake & carb. with a Weiand Stealth 4 bbl. alum. intake & 625cfm 4bbl. Carter carb. (definately helped wake up engine!)

3. Installed a set of Summit 1&5/8" ceramic coated full length headers. (another big help in waking up engine!)

4. Converted from points to a Pertronix Electronic Ignition setup. (much better idle & easier startup!)

5. Swapped the monoleaf springs for a set of JCW 3-leaf replacement springs for a Nova. (leveled out my sagging rear stance & firmed up the rear)

6. Installed a set of Prothane poly body bushings. (jury is still out on this mod....)

All together, I have notice significant improvements with the mods I have made so far. Now, I would like to get some opinions and advice for finishing out my engine. The main use of this car will be cruising & car shows with only an occasional rare pass at the strip.

Here is what I was thinking about as a 327 street engine combo based on what I have so far:

.030 over 327 (331 CID)
9.0 to 9.5:1 compression
Dart Iron Eagle 180 or World S/R Torquer 2.02/1.6 heads
Crane 266/266 cam (210/210@.050 .440/.440 lift 110lsa) or ISKY 264 Megacam (214/214@.050 .450/.450 lift 108LSA)
Weiand Stealth Intake
625 cfm Carter carb.
1&5/8" headers
Oil windage tray
2000 stall converter?
3.36:1 rear gear with Eaton 8.2" posi unit


I would like to hear from UDHarold on how he would cam this engine and anyone else if they have any advise or ever ran a combo that is similar....

Sorry so long winded..... :)

Thanks,
Mark

Hi, Mark. We have debated this before on the Camaro site (I'm John65nova over there), as I have a similar combo in my Chevy II (stock-ish '69 327).

I've recently been eyeing the Voodoo 256 cam, as I think the wide 112 LCA would work well in a street 327 with moderate 3.08-3.36 gears. I figure this cam should make more vaccum and idle smoother than the 108-110 LCA cams listed above. I think it would likely make similar power to the grinds listed above, while returning better MPG, and a wider power band (flatter torque curve).

Let's see what Harold and the experts say. :)

A good set of big valve double hump heads and shim headgaskets to get your CR. up to right about 10 to 1 AND no more than a good old CC 268HE, Crane 272/272 Energizer, CC 270 Magnum, Isky 270 Mega or a Crane 274 H06 hy-cam will do you nicely!!

Mine had the Energizer in it and ran like a "scalded-dog!"... Look for -461, -186 and -291 big valve stock heads AND you will be fine!!

AND if you really want to have fun, then drop in a stock good old -097 little Duntov solid cam AND a cheap set of -142 springs AND rpm her as high as you have nerve enough to hold her down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I figure a CC 270S solid is a good modern type cam like it..

pdq67

I like cubic inches, save the 327, rebuild to stock specs, build a 355 at least, or 383 :D

When I rebuilt mine back around '92, I lowered the compression to 9.5:1, and went with the Crane 274 hydraulic cam, vs the 11:1 and the solid cam. No problems, would idle at 650-700 rpm, and it'd still spin up over 7k. I last ran it in my '71 C/10 with a Super T-10 (2.88 1st) and 3.73 locker rear, and it ran really good. Truck was severely traction limited. ;)

The 327's shorter stroke will like a wider LSA like 111-112, I wouldn't use a 108. Check out these cams:


http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=2398&prmenbr=361

The 249-CL12-231-2 will give you about 180psi of cranking compression with 9.4-1 static and will pull good to 5200 I bet in a 327

The 249-CL12-235-2 should put you at or near 150+ cranking compression and will pull good to 6K in a 327.

The short durations combined with higher than average lift make these great torque producing cams-exactly what a street 327 needs, and the 111LSA will also help. Compare the lift vs. duration numbers against other street cams. Don't laugh because they are labelled a 4X4 cam- these things rev nice and pull really strong! Idle will be just a little choppy for the smaller cam at 600 rpm idle with 18ish inches of vacume. just my 2cents

Thanks for the responses...

I will agree that Cubic Inches are King but, I want to keep the original 327 in the car for the nostalgia factor and because I don't have anywhere to store a complete engine.

BadBob, Those 4x4 cams sound interesting....I never considered those before.

I Still would like to hear any other engine ideas or other suggestions....

Novadude & PDQ67- My cover is blown now...;) I usually hang out over at Camaros.net (I'm Granny's 69 over there) But, I though I would come over here and visit and ask a few questions. Thanks all.

-Mark P.

Here is what I was thinking about as a 327 street engine combo based on what I have so far:

.030 over 327 (331 CID)
9.0 to 9.5:1 compression
Dart Iron Eagle 180 or World S/R Torquer 2.02/1.6 heads
Crane 266/266 cam (210/210@.050 .440/.440 lift 110lsa) or ISKY 264 Megacam (214/214@.050 .450/.450 lift 108LSA)
Weiand Stealth Intake
625 cfm Carter carb.
1&5/8" headers
Oil windage tray
2000 stall converter?
3.36:1 rear gear with Eaton 8.2" posi unit



Well, its close to my combo:
331CI
10 to 10.5:1 comp
World S/R Torquers 2.02/1.6
VooDoo 268
Performer RPM
Hooker Competition Jet-hotted headers
Holley 650DP
2400 stall
TH350
3:36 8.2" posi

So after driving mine, I like the combo, but my compression kills my pocket book ($$gas), vacuum is a liitle low at times, it needs more rear gear to get the RPM up to a 327s peroformance range but that again costs more gas, drivability. Yours looks a solid drivable combo, but just depends on what you want for performance. Looks good, can't reccommend an exact cam, but I'd go with a Lunati.... :D

I like Badbob's idea, but I'd really check out the Voodoo 256. Similar to the 4x4 256 cam, but on 112 LSA instead of 111.

The more I read and absorb, the more I think 112 LSA is probably a good idea for a small c.i. engine with tall gears (2.73-3.36). Sure, you may give up a bit of peak torque, but the engine will likely make more tq below 3000 rpm. Since small cube engines are down on torque anyway, I think this is a good thing. Through a bigger converter and/or a 4-spd behind it with 3.73 gears, then a 270-ish cam on 110 LSA probably makes sense.

EDIT: Mark... I have an old General Kinetics 200/210, .408/.430, 112 LSA cam in my '69 235 hp (same heads as 210 hp) engine now. The only other mods are Edelbrock performer, Q-jet, 1.5" headers. Car is a Chevy II, PG, 3.08.

I've been rethinking my heads and cam swap plans, and I've decided to do the heads first and see how I like it. I'll run what I have and worry about a cam later. Hopefully looking to do the heads next spring / summer. We moved into a new house, and "hobby" money is tight right now. :(

UDHarold votes for the VooDoo 256......

We dyno-tested with 108, 110, and 112 LSA. I suggested the 112 originally, but the tests covered all three LSAs. We make the 112, it had the best vacuum and the widest power band, particularly at low rpms, and only lost 3 BHP on the top end. A single-pattern 256 on a 112 LSA hit our RPM-cutoff at 6200 in a Vortec head with stock Vortec valve springs...... Peak power of course was at 5000 in that combo.
If you decide to go solid, I make a 264 solid with 232° at .050 and .470" gross valve lift, .454" net. I made the very 1st one for a 327 Vette, and he said it would fill the inside of the car with tire smoke whenever he wanted it to----That one was on 110 LSA.

UDHarold

OH MY!!

Go the 264 solid!! IMHO!!!

AND if it doesn't rpm high enough, like in, "when are you gonna shift the SOB??" as it passes 7,000 rpm, then go the next bigger one!!

pdq67

Thanks Guys!! :thumbsup:

I'll check out that VD256 cam!

And I have to bring up my long gone Crippled Buddy's old '58 'Vette rag-top with the new '64 375hp/327 FI motor and tranny along with 3.08 rearend gears AND no more than an Isky Z-30 solid cam and 2.5" pipe nipple dumps right under the ramshorns!

It was a dog until it hit about 4000 rpm and then it turned from Dr. Jeckle into Mr. Hyde!

he used to get beat outta the hole like 2 to 3 cars AND then catch them at the top end of first gear up about 8,000 rpm!!

He, he!! It was neat hearing them go for third as he motored around them while shifting into second!!

But it was an 11 to 1 CR. motor!!

I miss my long gone crippled buddy.. Makes me sad..

pdq67

Sounds like the plan is coming together.

The aftermarket heads will be a big help. The cam choice is good. I would go with a 2600 rpm or so stall converter. I'm running a similar combo: Trick Flow heads, Edelbrock Performer intake, Qj, Crane 272 cam, 2600 rpm stall converter. Nice street combo AND even with no overdrive I can pull 17 m.p.g. driving back and forth to work.

Mike

Well, its close to my combo:
331CI
10 to 10.5:1 comp
World S/R Torquers 2.02/1.6
VooDoo 268
Performer RPM
Hooker Competition Jet-hotted headers
Holley 650DP
2400 stall
TH350
3:36 8.2" posi

So after driving mine, I like the combo, but my compression kills my pocket book ($$gas), vacuum is a liitle low at times, it needs more rear gear to get the RPM up to a 327s peroformance range but that again costs more gas, drivability. Yours looks a solid drivable combo, but just depends on what you want for performance. Looks good, can't reccommend an exact cam, but I'd go with a Lunati.... :D
if you're worried about gas milage and the price of premium fuel, you might want to consider another hobby.

Why the hell can't he build his 327 to be fun and yet still reasonable on gas mileage? Building for efficiency usually makes good power without needlessly throwing fuel out the tailpipe. Most car hobbyists are not drag racers, probably fewer owners of muscle era cars will ever race at the drags vs. the vast majority who mostly enjoy car shows and cruising.

Thomas

if you're worried about gas milage and the price of premium fuel, you might want to consider another hobby.

Thanks for pointing out the down falls of being a college student.......
When I was working and raking it in, the motor was a "who cares :D " build, the recent (and long-time coming) upturn in gas prices as caused me to rethink the motor. Not that I'd rebuild it for mileage, just trying to help the guy who hasn't yet :thumbsup: .