I'm still lost. So far, as I know it, over bare metal you should use etch primer, no filler can can be applied to any primer EXCEPT epoxy, you can spray epoxy over etch.

Now, I'm at the paint store today and the idiot clerk confuses me to death. He says you CANNOT spray an entire car with epoxy, aslo states epoxy has the same properties as etch so you do not need to spray etch on bare metal if you are spraying epoxy.

Then I see some urethane primer-what the heck is this one-just a filler primer or does it have any sealing properties-also does it sand OK?
So my car is at the bare metal stage with flash rust starting, what is the way to go here-it will not be getting any kind of base coat for at least a few months and I still have some filler work to do.
I thought if I washed with prep-sol or some other etching wash then sprayed epoxy over that then I would kill the flash rust with the prep-sol and seal the car with the epoxy-am I making sense or am i still confused?-Still wondering about urethane primer.

I'm reluctant to express my opinion, or give advice in this area, as I'm sure sevt_chevelle will shoot it down.....it seem his opinion/experience is the only correct one in this forum. :rolleyes:
DISCLAIMER:
I sold body shop supplies for 10 yrs, and was a professional automotive painter for 15 yrs.
I have painted hundreds of cars, and have plenty of experience with most all of the major brands. I have been out of the business for about 5 yrs now, so I may not be up on the very latest products...
Your results may vary!
If you already have flash rust, you need do eliminate that first. I guessing that you probably just have some dis-coloration...
I would use a Red scotch brite pad with your prep -sol, or whatever wax and grease remover you're using. Scuff the crap out of it until all the flash rust is gone. Then, wipe it down again with wax and grease remover with clean paper towels. (the lint free ones if possible.
The guy at the paint store was correct...sort of... You do NOT HAVE to use etch under epoxy.
In fact, some years ago, it was recomended that you didn't, but times have changed, and so have the recomendations.
For the absolute BEST corrosion protection, 2 coats of Metal etch, followed by 2 coats of epoxy.
Allow the proper flash time between coats. Depending on temp, wait an hour, or two, then apply the epoxy.
Can you get by with just the epoxy...Yes.
Can you get by with just the Metal etch...yes.
However, you can NOT apply filler over metal etch.
So, if you're only going to use one, or the other, use the epoxy so you can later do the filler work as needed.
The epoxy will hold up well against the elements.
A lot of guys use the black epoxy for the Satin black in the engine compartment
You will have to sand the epoxy before applying filler, or primer surfacer when you are at that point.
The urethane primer you mentioned, is the primer surfacer. it also requires a hardner. This is deffinitely the way to go. Use catalized products all the way through. Pick a brand, and stick with it from start to finish. Read, and understand the tech sheets. If you have questions, call your paint supplier.
Make sure you have a GOOD respirator..this is nasty nasty stuff.

Thanks-I always appreciate help, don't let these guys intimidate you :D . My question to all of that is the tech sheets for etch say not to apply over metal prep wash, so if I wash it down with prep-sol, how do I get the surface ready for metal etch primer?

Originally posted by Zman:
I'm reluctant to express my opinion, or give advice in this area, as I'm sure sevt_chevelle will shoot it down.....it seem his opinion/experience is the only correct one in this forum. :rolleyes:
I didnt know my opinion about products and different procedures were to be taken as the word of God. If you dont like what I say then speak up, I dont bite.

So do have a comment or suggestion on this topic-the more the merry'r

What brand of paint are you planning on using and what are the products??

Looks like S/W. The Dupont and PPG stuff is just way too friken expensive.

There's a big difference between metal prep/wash, and wax and grease remover.
The metel prep is kind of old school stuff.
It's basicly an acid wash type of thing, and isn't used much anymore. And yes, it is NOT recomended under metal etching primer.
Just scrub off the flash rust with a red scotch brite, and wax and grease remover. Wipe it down again when you are done with the scotch brite, and procede with the etch, epoxy, or both. Whichever you decide.
P.S. I personally prefer the Sherwin Williams product line. But like I mentioned, I've been out of the business for a few years now, and there have been a lot of changes, and new products added since then, so please don't ask me to quote product numbers, mixing ratios, etc. Refer to the tech sheets.

Originally posted by sevt_chevelle:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Zman:
I'm reluctant to express my opinion, or give advice in this area, as I'm sure sevt_chevelle will shoot it down.....it seem his opinion/experience is the only correct one in this forum. :rolleyes:
I didnt know my opinion about products and different procedures were to be taken as the word of God. If you dont like what I say then speak up, I dont bite. </font>[/QUOTE]Sorry sevt_chevelle... redface.gif
I've got some personal issues going on right now, and I guess I have a big chip on my shoulder...
No hard feelings??
graemlins/beers.gif

Originally posted by Zman:

I've got some personal issues going on right now, and I guess I have a big chip on my shoulder...
No hard feelings??
graemlins/beers.gif Hey dont worry about it. Ive learned to take what I read as much as a grain of salt. I too have tons of personal stuff going on and over the past 7-8 months have developed one hell of an attitude.
I only wish I knew all the answers to everything but I dont. If I did I sure as hell wouldnt be living in Iowa, find myself unemployed and wondering what is next.
No hard feelings graemlins/beers.gif

Anyway back to the topic. Ask your dealer for the tech sheets for EVERY product to intend to use. Look over the sheets and get to know the products before you buy. That way you have no surspries.

If your dealer doesnt carry sheets or supply some to you then you NEED TO FIND A NEW PLACE TO BUY FROM....PERIOD. If they dont have sheets they dont care about the products they sell, dont care how they work and dont care about YOU!!!

Do you really want to buy paint from someone that doesnt know what they are selling???? If they dont know what they are selling and you have questions you think you will get a good answer??

Also check with local shops ask what brand they are using. If they are using S-W or Martin Senour(same stuff differnet label) ask what products they use, ask if they care to share some info.

http://www.martinsenour-autopaint.com/pds/martin/mspds.pdf
This link is to the MS line. The same stuff just different numbers on the label. Read throu it see what the products say and then ask your dealer for the S-W product...Eric