Okay, just a slightly different twist on the clone debate... A little poll to determine how you feel, and what area of the Chevelle/classic car world you gravitate toward...

The people that seem to dislike clone the most, seem to be the people that have the most ($$$) to lose as clones become more popular...

This thread will not survive. Been discussed many, many, many, many, many, many (insert a thousand more many's here) times.

I agree that its been discussed many, many times, but it usually get responses... plus, I think my poll angle is a little different than usual... No need for replies, just take the poll...

Got it.:clonk:

I'd be happy if all Chevelle were not worth $10... Then the "Investors" would go away and leave the cars (and prices) for the hobbiest, the person that wants these cars to drive and enjoy as they were intended to be... Thats from a different thread. Thats how I feel about SS,s clones and numbers matching cars.

Uh oh! Not another clone thread! :D

I could care less; I know what I like, which isn't what everyone else likes, and I don't try to sway anyone into thinking like I do.

how about a little twist...ask everyone who votes what they own....

I own a clone and don't think I would want to own a true SS. I mean, if its an SS, you really can't do anything to it. Same with numbers matching. I can do whatever I want to my car and it is fine with me.

how about a little twist...ask everyone who votes what they own....

Okay, me first. I own a Malibu, but I voted for do it any you want. :)

Well the truth is, I can't afford a true SS or even a clone for
that matter. Beside the fact that even though I have owned
a s***load of Chevelles and ALL kinds of wild Chevrolets, I
would be scared to death to plop down my hard earned $ for
what could be a well done fake.

To many crooked car people trying to cash in on a craze.
I liked it a whole lot better in the 50's and 60's when I could
go look at a car and buy it sight as seen with no questions as
to whether it was a fake, clone, copy, tribute or otherwise.

With former crooked Stock Brokers getting in on the Musclecar
craze, there are bound to be dishonest people willing to do
whatever it takes to make a fast buck with no regard for the
cars or the hobby. They want the fast turnover and don't
seem to mind cheating decent people out of their hard earned
money.

Yep, things sure have changed ... :(

I own a 70 malibu, put a big block in it, turbo 400 12 bolt, monte carlo gauges, factory bucket seat,4 speed car, I'll probably put the ac back in when I find the comp. brackets, when I find a cowl hood cheap enough I'll put it on, I never intended to make a clone just put the options that I like on my chevelle, besides I've been real lucky finding these parts real cheap.
Talk about driving these thing like they were intended, I was at a guys house this weekend, he's got a LS 5 70 chevelle,that he bracket races, and he showed me what's left of his original numbers matching motor! All 1000 peices of it. now he's building a 489 for it. And he was kicking the idea of tossing the stock fenders for glass fenders, now that's a guy who knows how to have fun with what he's got! Jim

Well, I voted for " Dislike Clones; Too many people are getting ripped off with clones " and "Clones are OK; Its your car, do as you like. "

I hate People who will fake it for a buck.. The "I am 95% Sure it's a true SS" (although it's got the #'s match TH350 in it or a Ten-Bolt).

However, If you like the look of an SS and want to Mod it or Can't afford it Go For a Clone! Just don't rip anyone :thumbsup:

I own a 72 SS400 (402), It is a True 402 (U Code). Although I have no documentation, it has EVERY "tall-tale" sign of Being a True SS (Original Fenders were Stamped, Rear Bumper Is stamped, Original 72 SS Dash, Original SS Wheels, 1" Front Sway Bar (Non-F41 Car)... Discs, etc....)

JMO,
Todd

I only say in is a clone because it is easier than telling people it has some SS options. It will never be a true clone, just a cool Malibu with some SS options.

"The people that seem to dislike clone the most, seem to be the people that have the most ($$$) to lose as clones become more popular.........correct me if im wrong,people with low dollar cars AND high dollar cars should have a problem with individuals making fake paperwork clone cars and selling for big $$$,because its not right whether it effects you financially or not ... If you had GM stock in your retirment plan and i had microsoft stock in mine ,who do you think would be concerned if gm was down 40%?? Certainly not me,i dont own it...

I say if you want to make a clone make a clone,just dont represent it as anything else but that.

If they had an original matching number SS as good as the one I'm building, I might buy it, but that's not possible because of the newer technology we have today.

Here's a few of the things that we have now that wasn't available 35 years ago.

Eoxy primer
Base coat Clear coat
Better Sealers
Better Fillers
Better Tires

There is no comparision of what's available today versus 35 yrs ago. Take a look at the chassis componets, motors, transmissions etc.

As far as this poll, the matching number people are outnumbered by, let's call them or us the cloners, or maybe a better name would be, (Newer Muscle).

While I'm on the subject of muscle, back in 1970 when you bought your SS it was a real muscle car. Well they're still called muscle cars but back then you couldn't buy a ten year old car that had more power as a rule.

There's some pretty serious horsepower sitting on some of these car lots well, where's the muscle out there today.

Now for the matching numbers.

Anybody that has one should be very proud of it, it tells a story of what it used to be like. They're a very large contribution to what makes this site what it is today. It's real information to all of us, and last but not least.

To the ones with the real deal, you keep us straight and well informed on what's what, let alone some of the financial decisions that have been made by numerous individuals because of your expertise on this subject. You people are pricless.

One more thing, if you don't quit calling them clones, I'm going to have to call your's paintings, so from now on, if anybody agrees with me, how about "newer muscle". <VBG>

Rob.
















.

I imagine a person's opinion on cloning a particular model may very well depend on whether they own one or not! (I do not own a Chevelle SS, but I do own a true SS 396 Nova! Hence, my opinion.)

I once heard that imitation is the highest form of "flattery." I don't blame anybody for wanting an SS, for example. But, there are only so many though. However, lots of cars are copied in "kit form" such as the F**d Cobras. I think that there should however be some means for determining and recognizing that the vehicle is a "copy" and not authentic. A 'copy' of a valuable car should itself be worth something, especially if well done, as long as it is recogniozed/acknowledged as a "copy" of the real thing. It no doubt takes the same talent/effort to creat a "fake" as it does to restore an original!

One of the main problems I have with a car being a clone/copy of an original is if it were done with the intentions of deceiving someone..especially if it is intended for "monetary gain."

Documentation itself is a great source for authenticity, but I'm afraid that there is too much of that being altered or "faked", which to me is "fraud."

I am one of the lucky ones who has a real SS 396 (Nova). Like I said, I don't blame anybody for wanting one...just don't try to fool me with your converted base model! I can appreciate your talent for such work, but I question your intentions/ethics.

Dave
1969 SS 396 Nova

Very well said dave, but you mentioned the copy should be worth something.

I noticed at the barrett jackson auction they had a lift outside that you could pay this guy a couple hundred to inspect the underside of your car. And jackson himself said that people are looking more at quality then they used to.

I wouldn't be surprised that within just a few years, the copys if done right, will be worth more then the real thing, not so much of who's doing it but look at the materials that go into the car.

Rob.

Sounds like you have a really nice nova, any pictures.

I voted for do what you feel. I own a 70 malibu 350 I put a 454 in and I have a cowl hood on it.
I just like the SS hoods and paint with the stripes. I always tell people I have a malibu that I'm going to make look like a SS.
But I'm probably only going to do the outside stuff since a dash and center console cost a lot of money.
If I ever sell it I will tell the person its a malibu, I'm not in it for the money so I doesn't bother me it's not a true SS.

"I wouldn't be surprised that within just a few years, the copys if done right, will be worth more then the real thing"....................................You honestly believe that?????????????

ls6 convertible

I talked about new technology, so lets go a little farther with that.

A lot of people don't realize how the digital camera and the internet have impacted even our muscle car hobby. Lets take a situation like a person in the middle of the u.s. wants a muscle car theres one on the east coast and the other on the west coast. There both $100,000. The person wants to show and drive this car. Well he wants pictures and documentation. He wants the cars on a lift with a light and lots of pictures, like maybe even under the carpet edge or up above the rear end, close up of the paint, and so forth.

Well now we get down to one of the, maybe most important aspects of a matching number car, documentation.

The matching number car has it all.

build sheet
pop
carb #s
original bill of sale
All the numbers are correct, motor, everything.

Now the copy car, what can he bring to the table to match that.

If the copy car is built, with a lot of new materials, there could be a warranty from gm on the motor, and various other warrantys, the copy car can furnish the buyer with the primer, paint, bearing numbers, seal numbers, just take the cooling system alone, just a small part of it. You know what I'm saying.

A few people might not realize that its equally or probably more important to document a copy car. And talk about documentation, well the matching car has numbers from castings that were made 35Years ago, So lets take this chassis I have, only as an example please. I have documented every bolt, type, grade,, also torque settings out of the gm assembly and shop manuals, timken seal numbers, all the filler, primer and paint, suppose you smash a fender, well is it lacquer or base clear, or what primer under the lacquer.

Theres a lot of difference in these two cars, what about value, well who can bring what to the table, ask your self whats the difference in just the materials that go into the drive train alone. Ask any drag racer or custom car builder, or anybody from general motors what type of paint and drivetrain they want to put in there new cars, there not into numbers, there into quality. Am I right or wrong, only time can tell Rob.

I beleive that a Chevelle is a Chevelle is a Chevelle. Most of these cars are over 35 years old. I love them all. Hey,lifes to short to worry about the small things. Do to it what you like. Just think if there weren't any Chevelles out there. What would we do. The current trend is pricing a lot of people out of the market. Who knows when the prices will come down. When I look at a Chevelle I see a lot of hard work, money, time etc. Whether it is the owner or someone else that restored it. I have been to many shows, and have made many friends. Whether you drive, race ,show ,sell,buy, or restore. Just enjoy them! Just dont try to rip any one off!

For the single guys out there... You"ll never pick up a chick that asks you ,Hey,,,, is this a Clone, or a real SS!!

I like numbers matching cars because of what they bring to the hobby, a look back at how they were from the factory and they are history well never see again.

I disklike the term "clone" because it's way overused and misrepresented. Like a 67 300 Deluxe seen recently with Super Sport nameplate, SS936 badge, even Turbo-Jet flags and a small block. (?)

Too easy to say "SS 396" clone. Why use "clone" at all? Why not just say it's a (custom) Chevelle or Malibu and leave it at that?

Drive 'em if you can afford to, trailer 'em if they are a nice piece of history. Both have merits and both have followers. I like to drive mine (x-67 SS, aka GR8PMKN) and current 67 El Camino already updated w/TH350 and discs. I like 'em all especially if they're done nice. :D

I love 'um ALL !

most "clones" aren't really clones anyway.

This is just my opinion,dont want to offend anybody,boy you have to be politicly correct these days!Every thing these days has to have a SOFT title or there is lawsuite.A clone is a clone is a clone.it is nothing else,as is a SS is an SS is an SS ,it is nothing else.Clones have been called clones for years,people looking for a softer title I dont know what to tell ya.

A "clone" car is fine, as are original SS cars. I love the body styles, and the stances of the chevelles. I have since high school and will continue to love them. One day i would love to own a true documented numbers matching SS Chevelle completely "nuts and bolts" restored. But the truth is driving and admiring the look of the cars is what does it for me. Sure stripes and SS badges make a car cool, but take all that off the car and paint it one color and it will look just as good to me.


As far as a "clone" being worth more than an original - no way if it is represented as a "clone". Why - because there are only so many originals and an unlimited number of clones can be made.

As stated earlier without the dirty dealers who are in this just for a buck the whole hobby would be better off.

One more thing. Politically correct is BS. Cant stand the phrase or what is means to most. I like to say what I'm thinking and feeling. Screw what someone wants to hear. If thats the case stay home and talk to yourself.

My .02

To me a true numbers matching SS is like a pretty picture. You look but dont touch. I like going to a car show and seeing these pretty cars. But I get really Jazzed by the guy that has the hot rod almost 90% complete. Im a hot rod guy.
I dig rat rods. I dig cars that look good, run good, are fast(they dont have to be the fastest,a good fast drivable 350 is as cool in my book as a blown 502) and are fun to drive. Any fast car is fun to drive. But the key word here is DRIVE!!
To me Malibu Jerrys car is as cool as any restored pretty as a picture SS.

I have a Malibu. NOT numbers matching, NOT origional. If I had a numbers matching SS in perfectly restored origional condition,It wouldnt stay that way Long. Its because Im a hot rodder at heart. These cars are buetiful in origional condition. But drop it a little and rake it a little with some cool rims and WOW.

Then do some things to tighten it up and improve the handling. See,they were great cars and cool. But there is alot of room for improvement.

Clones are cool.

Before getting my car (a 67 convertible ss close) I didnt really know the term...I knew my car wasnt a true SS but paid what I thought it was worth. Dont get me wrong, I love true SS for reasons mentioned earlier but for me, if I was to have a hundred thousand dollars or even no budget...what would I build: a totally restored chevelle done w/ todays tech and to my liking. With no budget wouldnt it be ashame to take an original SS and do that too? So, there are valid reasons for clones. Take my case, because I now know about clones, should I go home and pull all my bagdes off? I like the SS stuff, its bad and I hope to never sell it so thats a non issues and Im a bad lyer.

As long as a clone isnt meant to fool anybody in a transaction (kind of kool if you could build one that would even fool the experts) & as long as a person owning a true SS doenst look down on a clone (even if its nicer then his/her own) all is kool.

Well - I have one of each, a true SS and a replica.

A few things

a) I beleive you do what you want with your car.
b) If you are going to do a replica, clone or tribute car - do it right - go the 100% percent - can't call it a clone, replica or a tribute car if all the pieces aren't there.
c) If you do build a clone, replica or tribute car - be up front if any one asks.
d) LAST BUT NOT LEAST - BUYER BEWARE - AN UNEDUCATED BUYER CAN GET RIPPED OFF, SO DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE BUYING.

Other then then that - have fun and enjoy the hobby - build what you like.

Rich

I appreciate the people preserving history, and keeping the original cars the way they were.

HOWEVER, I'd much rather have a clone. A car is worthless to me if it is a "garage queen" that I can't take anywhere without being a nervous wreck that something will happen to it. The only reason *I* would ever own one of these cars is to drive it.

I can guarantee you that a good portion of the people that hate clones have cars that are not 100% correct anyway. Face it folks... these cars were used and abused (particularly the Super Sport cars), and they are OLD. There is a pretty good chance that at sometime in the 1970s, a teenager bought that SS as a cheap used car and proceeded to beat the living crap out of the thing.

I'll pose an interesting question: If you replace your rusty SS 1/4s with Goodmark parts, does that make your car a "clone"? After all, 99% of the body shops and restorers will not go the extra mile to duplicate all the factory spot weld technques (often quite sloppy). At this point, you are no longer "preserving history", right?

"I wouldn't be surprised that within just a few years, the copys if done right, will be worth more then the real thing"....................................You honestly believe that?????????????

I do...

Take for example the pre-war cars... Even without getting to the majorly modified streetrods (talking body mods), the cars with better "driveability" attract more and more money, while the "stock" cars are not going up as quickly. Nicely done 57 Chevys loaded with options are outpricing most "original" 57 Chevys...

Okay, so maybe a true "SS Clone" (one built to look exactly like an original SS) will possibly never exceed the price of a rare original, but most people building "clones" aren't building them 100% concours correct or 100% original anyway. I see alot of guys building cars with paint dabs, chalk marks, etc, yet still having a different cam, newer radial tires, maybe a hidden stereo, etc...

You always have anomolies too, like Ebay or Auction "prices", And there will always be some people with more money than brains (IMO), who will pay well above Market value for a particular car. Maybe because its exactly what they want (color, bodystyle, etc), maybe because they have a big EGO that needs to be stroked, maybe because they think the value will continue to skyrocket. Whatever it is, I think it can be both good and bad for the "Hobby."

Good: increased prices usually mean more resto parts will be produced, and better quality, because some companies see the opportunity. Good too, if you need/want to sell.

Bad: prices for the hobbiest (the people that really want these cars to drive and enjoy) keep rising. The "investors" that keep driving the prices up will probably bail when/if prices begin to fall, or another "better" investment comes along... Price might fall, but probably never back down to where they were (relative to inflation/income)...

Clones have been called clones for years,people looking for a softer title I dont know what to tell ya.

I do, call them what they are :D

Many of us probably wouldn't know a real clone cause it would be EXACTLY the same as whatever it was cloned after.

I really don't think the word "clone" has been used all that long in our "Chevelle world" and now it means different things to different people but it will be general accepted by what ever the majority wants it to be tomorrow.

Who Cares !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A clone is a clone is a clone.it is nothing else,as is a SS is an SS is an SS ,it is nothing else.

Okay sob,

Whats the difference:

Car #1, "Real" 1970 SS, but originally a bench seat, non-posi car. Owner changed to factory Bucket seats and added positraction, and motor was replaced...

Car #2, 1970 Malibu , but factory bucket seat, disc brake 12-bolt car (all available options on a Malibu), but car was repainted with SS hood, wheels and emblems, (all correct, correctly located and Malibu pieces removed) and date matching engine (let even say its the original LS3, 402, Malibu 400)...

Now while Car #1 is a true SS, it NOW has options that weren't originally on that car...

So car #1 is also a "clone", even though its a "real" SS (bucket seat clone)... A bucket seat car looks sportier and is worth more than a bench seat car...

Car #2 has all matching numbers and a few additional options...

The point is, whats the difference between adding the SS "option" via a few "bolt=on pieces, or adding some other available "option"? I know many purists would want the car completely original, but still for many others...

I can see a fully documented fully original car being worth more, but once its been modified, then there really shouldn't be a price difference...

My opinion is, that I have no opinion.... It's your car, do as you see fit.. The only time I have a problem with a clone is when someone tries to sell it as an SS..

Scott

1966 L78... GREAT post... your "bucket seat" example expands on what I touched on earlier. Many "real" cars are not 100% correct anyway.

how about a little twist...ask everyone who votes what they own....

I own both.

Actually, that was my intention with so many poll options. I wanted to see if MOST clone-haters were those with true SS cars, and primarily worried about the $$$ value.

Anyway,
I have a 1966 convertible "clone" (1967 396, 5-speed, 66 12-bolt, disc brakes, some chrome, interiro is "stock" but non-stock color combo- white seats but chose to go with blue carpet and dash, etc, instead of black). Fun car to cruise. Not perfect (paint chips, etc), but still presentable, and I am not ashamed to take it to shows (I know I won't win a trophy).

I also have a 1966 SS hardtop, original L78 car...

I have no problem with clones, but then again, I didn't just get into this for the investment... I have had both my cars for over 17 years (and had quite a few others in the mean time)...

On the one hand, I LIKE that true SS cars are worth more than clones(because maybe I'll sell mine someday), BUT, if it value dropped to $0, I wouldn't care... Thats NOT why I am in this hobby...

I own these cars because I LOVE them. Sure, if I went out now and paid $$$ for a "true SS", then I would hope the market would at least keep my car up to where I wouldn't lose money, and I'd hope I didn't get duped on a clone...

Of course, I'd gladly buy a clone (as long as the price was reasonable for the car), because I know a correct clone will perform the same (or better) than the real thing, and to me thats more important than the financial return on my investment...

My "return" is the enjoyment I get from working on and driving the car...

The only time I have a problem with a clone is when someone tries to sell it as an SS..

I agree...

Kind of like a double edge sword...

I thought this topic would not have many responses, however apparently I was wrong. This has been on ongoing topic for quite some time, it is a good discussion nonetheless. I guess I need speak out even though only taking the poll was requested by the originator of this topic, others also provided a narrative response. I so happen to have a real, documented (build sheet, PoP), restored to original (or close to it as much as possible). I also have a 1971 Malibu of which I like the look of the SS hood on it. It is NOT a clone in an attempt to commence the cloning process of my Malibu into an SS. I also have a 1969 Malibu of which I like the look of the SS hood on it, it is once again not an attempt to commence the cloning process of an SS. No one can ever really restore anything to original because GM is no longer making most of the parts for a car as old as 35 years or so. Some parts are available, some are not and are being reproduced (although not with any high quality that GM required of its parts for the period of time of concern).

Most of the so-called clones out there are only built close to what was considered original inherent in an SS or use other specific options available on a Chevelle (Malibu in particular as they are an up scaled base Chevelle) that were either available or mandatory as part of the SS option. Some clones are an attempt to make exact replicas and I appreciate the work one would be required to perform (or hire out) to make a clone. A true clone would (should) exactly replicate what was considered the "SS". Any other attempt to make a Chevelle (Malibu) an SS should not be considered a clone. Putting on a 12-bolt rear, placing a big block engine in place of the small block (for 1970 Chevelles anyway), dash, emblems, or removal/addition of some trim in some cases does not necessarily mean one is making an attempt to make a clone, just an attempt to make a Malibu look good with one or more SS available options. Anyone in the know and sharpens up his/her skills on what constitutes a real SS should be able to spot these things out as mentioned in other responses on this very subject. As always, caveat emptor.

A little history for us to consider. as there are various definition of clones:

This one is based on computers: The term "clone" arose in the mid-1980s to describe DOS or Windows-based computers made by companies other than IBM. The machines were often referred to as "IBM clones," or "IBM compatible" computers. They were called clones because the computers functioned exactly the same way as the ones made by IBM. They used similar hardware and ran the same software.

This one is based on genetics: Clone: Literally a fragment, the word in modern medical science has come to mean a replica, for example, of a group of bacteria or a macromolecule such as DNA. Clone also refers to an individual developed from a single somatic (non-germ) cell from a parent, representing an exact replica of that parent. A clone is a group of cells derived from a single ancestral cell.

Anyway, I don't mean to bore anyone with various meanings of clone, one only needs do a search on the web and obtain numerous definitions of clone.

One thing is inherent in common use of the term clone: A clone is (or should be) an exact replica of what is being replicated, a car in this case.

Clones as it appears in our way of describing them here on TC do not always meet or exceed the expectations of those that want their car to be (or look and/or perform) like an SS. The fact of the mater is "who cares"? Cars are personal items that can be altered in any way one seems fit, of course keeping basic safety mechanisms intact. Granted, if someone or some classic auto dealer wants to pass off a clone (again, an exact replica of an SS in all respects) as a real factory made SS, they need be upfront about it. I hear that all the time in reading the posts here and I agree with it as well. Sometimes one may have purchased what they thought was a real factory made SS and later discovered it was not. They might even be tempted to place it on e-bay or any other venue for selling a car to gain back what they "lost" on the deal. Or they may be perfectly content (based on the purchase price) with what they have. Or, as we know there are unscrupulous people out there that will attempt to make a clone and sell it off to some unsuspecting buyer for a price of what a real factory made SS would command if sold.

Bottom line is that it's your money, it's your car, it's your knowledge, it's your satisfaction level, it's your awareness, it's your integrity, etc., that's of importance here depending upon which side of the fence your on, either owning or selling. I know that with all my experience gained in restoring a 1970 Chevelle SS has given me further insight in to the history and making of these cars. Regarding Super Sports, or cars in general, I am neither a know-it-all nor am I blindingly ignorant by any means on the subject, and most importantly I am not an expert on these cars. Let's all enjoy our hobby for what it is, a hobby. :thumbsup:

[QUOTE=novadude]A car is worthless to me if it is a "garage queen" that I can't take anywhere without being a nervous wreck that something will happen to it. QUOTE]

That's what I have insurance for.:)

"To me a true numbers matching SS is like a pretty picture. You look but dont touch." (Quote from Mali Blu)

You can touch mine if you want to. Matter of fact, you can sit in it, & if I'm with you, I'd probably let you drive it. ;)

It's a #s matching, in the process of being made even more correct, true 138 SS car. I do what I want (which is make it as correct as I can while still updating to safer and more reliable components) with it, drive it as much as I want to (driven to 2 Chevellabrations), and I enjoy the heck out of the car.

As long as the market says that true SS cars are worth more, then clones should be represented as clones so that the buyers are not misled. Clones are OK-liars & cheats aren't. :sad:

BillL

That was pretty good super 70, the one word you used integrity, thats the bottom line.


Rob.

As long as the market says that true SS cars are worth more, then clones should be represented as clones so that the buyers are not misled. Clones are OK-liars & cheats aren't.

That sums it up. Bill, I admire your attitude twords the hobby. I worry that as values go through the roof, more and more cars will turn into "garage queens". Glad to see there are people like you that are still willing to enjoy the cars.

For the record, I spent a lot of time in, and under, Chevelles (I learned to drive on a '69 that my parents used as a family car from 1985-2002, and I helped my Dad build his '70 SS396 'vertible CLONE). However, I do not own one. My car is a '65 Nova SS clone. Somehow, bucket seats, 327, etc, etc just seemed more fun to me than a 194 ci sixer and cloth bench, and I liked the SS trim better. Therefore, I added a lot of the SS stuff to my car. I never misrepresent it though... I am proud to admit it is a "fake".

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:boring: :angry: :boring: :clonk:

Thats a real nice looking ELcamino you have there.

I love clones, couldnt care less about them being built. I own clone SS cars as well as factory SS cars. Sold my 2 buildsheet 70ss396 convertible and kept the clone because the real SS was a stripper and the clone is loaded with options. They both drove the same. What? Yes I said drive, not track like a stock portfolio. I dont give a damn what they are worth. I actually wish they were worth less, I used to drive my convertible every day and now I am afraid to leave the thing in a parking lot to go into a store because now they are worth something to someone other than me. My cars are worth whatever someone is willing to pay no matter how many clones or whatever is out there. For those who hate clones because they are worried about their cars value it is a ridiculous thing to worry about. Has the influx of reproduction parts driven down the value of genuine NOS parts much? It has probably made them worth more because there is always the guys who will accept nothing but genuine GM and there are those who will not buy anything but a documented SS. To each their own.

Hey guys,

I own a true SS. It was numbers matching until my motor blew up and couldnt be saved. Now I have a true SS, but the #'s matching thing has killed the value of the car. I think it shouldn't really matter unless you are the one who is trying to buy the car. I would hate to be the guy that is told you have a true "SS" and run the numbers later and find out I paid $20K for a car that is a fake and that I could have bought in the same condition for less.

The other thing is I feel if the block is still numbers matching and you are not going for the "original look", mods should not lower the value of the car. The guys back in the 60's, when the cars were new, would buy a stripped down, no frills SS and mod the heck out of it to go to track.

Here's where I stand on the cloning issue.

I think it's awesome when I see these cars being driven around today.
I don't really care if it's a clone or not. It doesn't make me think any different of the owner.
It used to be a few years ago that you didn't see so many of them being driven. Clone or otherwise.
Hey, if people are willing to spend the money necessary to revive one of these old rusty Chevys, great ! If they want to make them look like Super Sports to get the notoriaty, great !
I get a little tingly when I see them cruising the streets. It's as if you've gone back in time. The more original looking they are, the better.

If somebody clones a car for the sole purpose of selling it as the real thing. That is wrong. But buyer beware. Do your research, folks. And don't come on this board whinning about how you were duped, trying to make everyone feel sorry for you. If you don't know what size wrench it takes to turn a bolt, then you have no business doing the job. If you don't know what makes a Chevelle a Super Sport and you want to buy it strickly as an investment, you better find somebody who knows what to look for before you lay out your hard earned cash, or you've got no business buying it !

Clone or not, get out and drive 'em. It's summertime !!!!

Rant over.


Nate

One other thing is I see a lot of assumptions that if a car is a real SS it should of course have all of its correct "SS" parts, but that isnt always the case. In the 90s I stripped many a real SS car for parts and a few of them had nice enough bodies that someone bought the shell to put back together. Whether they put back everything correctly who knows but just because that 70SS doesnt have the correct rag joint means it is a clone. Lots of things can happen to a car over 40 years.

If somebody clones a car for the sole purpose of selling it as the real thing. That is wrong. But buyer beware. Do your research, folks. And don't come on this board whinning about how you were duped, trying to make everyone feel sorry for you... If you don't know what makes a Chevelle a Super Sport and you want to buy it strickly as an investment, you better find somebody who knows what to look for before you lay out your hard earned cash, or you've got no business buying it !
Nate

Nate,

I couldn't have said it better myself...

I know some people that bought clones, knowing they were clones, BUT they were BB powered Chevelles which is what they wanted, so whats the problem...

IF a buyer is looking for a BB chevelle to drive and enjoy, what difference does it make if it is a true SS, or has the original engine, etc...

Why did you buy a BB Chevelle in the first place?

Why should a "documented" car be worth so much more than a clone with all the same pieces?

Personally, I will probably NEVER buy another "true" SS again, because of the prices... I won't pay the ridiculous "premium" for authenticity, when I can go buy a clone with all the same parts, for much less... And enjoy the car, not worry as much about it, and still have it increase in value at about the same rate...


I feel bad for all those poor people that have gotten duped, but really, I wish (in a way :p ) more of these clones "with documentation" would show up... Maybe then the "investors" would go away...

I don't care how many clones there are, these cars are so old that they will still be a site to see driven around town...


But the real problem is that without fail every one of the "SS" owners claims they're real. Even with horribly done clones the owners will make some excuse for the car,(dog ate the documentation, bought the car that way, one off build with that wood grain dash, wrong codes, etc.), but they remain steadfast that it's a "real SS".
In the end all this really doesn't matter except that many of these cars are for sale and unfortunately most buyers can't spot a really good fake or verify a vin.
So the reality is that on this and other Chevelle forums out there everybody claims they are completely up front and honest about their cars' history, unfortunately, these are not the people that I ever run into at the cruises/shows.


When selling a car, yeah, you SHOULD be honest... When at a show, well thats another matter...

At shows, etc, I am usually honest and upfront about my "clone". However, if some "know-it-all" comes up and tries to "rip" my car apart, I will tell him its real, and refute him on every point, just because I like to F with people that F with me...

BTW, I like to talk alot in person too, which is why I like to post so much... :waving:

Boy, I'm really becoming proud to own my Malibu. I had the choice, but
felt that it would be just as unique to stay with a Malibu instead of a SS.

Truth is, I envy some of the guys running around here with cloned SS's
because thay get more interest, but to people who really appreciate
a survivor (75 % in my case ) compliment my car for what it is. If I was interested
in money or increased value I would go clone. As for now, the Malibu is
fine.

The future may be different ;)

I feel that as long as it is not sold or represented as the real deal, than to each is own.

I also feel this subject is beating a dead horse and ..... :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring:



But you asked........

Certainly, I prefer a true SS, but they cost two or three times what a non-SS car does. Not everyone can find or afford an SS. If I bought a non-SS car, I might choose not to clone it. Yes, add a big block. But my preference might be to leave the SS signs off.

As you can tell from my signature - Clones are cool as long as you do not represent it as real. I had all of the emblem holes welded up, so I have the SS stripes and the SS on the grille but that is it. I always make sure to tell people it is a clone. To each his own. It is your car, do it the way you want and don't let anyone tell you different. Now having said that, would I like to have a real SS - NO, I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE ONE, just can't afford that.
Frank

I have a 67 Malibu.... everything under the hood looks correct 67 325 horse (except the RPM intake of course) but i would never slap on some SS emblems and have a 136 vin

This is just so so dumb.

I kind of look at a clone like this....


Its like a can of Coke its great right from the get go.
Would I buy a can of Coke filled with Faygo for the same price even if someone said it tastes the same and its in a Coke can but you know something about it is not quite right?
Or would I rather spike the coke with some captain ahh that would be even better.

I own a clone and don't think I would want to own a true SS. I mean, if its an SS, you really can't do anything to it. Same with numbers matching. I can do whatever I want to my car and it is fine with me.


the problem is people forget that this things are cars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
not investments...
they are to be enjoyed/driven/changed to the owners likes
clones are fine.. and # matching cars are for the birds...
can't drive um/ when driving them you get a headache worrying/ can't do anything to it..other than stock..
if I want a car i can't do anything to I'll lease a new car...
ls6 are big money cars but a 05 vette thats cheaper will hand it it's a$$..
there is nothing like a big block car but 100000.00 plus for a ls6 chevelle... wtf.. build it your way/drive it/enjoy it..
cause tomorrow it might not be there...fire/stolen/hit/flood, u name it...
thats why I think trailers big money # matching cars are for the birds...
you want art buy a painting...

"the problem is people forget that this things are cars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
not investments".................................................. ..If given a choice would you rather have a 75K Ls6 paperwork coupe in your retirement account or 75K in GM bonds?????????case closed

I am the same as many of you. Clones are fine as long as they are not presented as real SS cars. My 69 SS396 is real although not the original drivetrain. If it was I would not have the fun with it that I do. I know guys with numbers cars that are afraid to take them out of the garage or put a few miles on them. My SS ( aluminum head 427, 11:1, 561/571 solid cam, 410:1 gears, etc.) is driven a few times a week, sometimes more. I don't worry about the occasional stonechip like some guys. If something happens, just fix it! That's what it's all about.

Alright...I'm calling out all so called "SS" owners on this forum out right now. Especially if you call yourself SSDan, SSMike, etc. Lets see some of the paperwork! No paperwork, you need to change your name to MalibuDan or MalibuMike, etc.

I recently purchased a clone; it's a car that is beautiful to me & fun to drive. I'd think like to 'brand' it back to a Malibu - and be a proud Malibu owner (because in the final analysis, the people who will see & appreciate my car could give a rats a** whether it's a Chevelle or Malibu). So, can anyone tell me where I can get the "Malibu" insignia, etc., to revert back to a Maibu?

Signed,
Proud Malibu Owner

I recently purchased a clone; it's a car that is beautiful to me & fun to drive. I'd think like to 'brand' it back to a Malibu - and be a proud Malibu owner (because in the final analysis, the people who will see & appreciate my car could give a rats a** whether it's a Chevelle or Malibu). So, can anyone tell me where I can get the "Malibu" insignia, etc., to revert back to a Maibu?

Signed,
Proud Malibu Owner

Yep, Ground up restorations :)

Even though I have a Malibu, I
still think a SS trimmed car looks better.

If you really wanna know what does it for me, then look at a 69 COPO
car. Yeah Baby, thats the best looking, sleepy, tastefully done Chevelle
in my opinion !

When I re-do my car it will be a copo tribute (aka - clone ) so stay tuned
for further details :)

All Malibus are Chevelles, not all Chevelles are Malibus. With that said, all Chevelles are :cool: !

I don't use the word clone... I say "Fake SS"... The reason I don't like them is because whenever you go to a car show around here, almost 95% of the Chevelles are either SS cars, or they are "SS" cars. Very rarely do you see a Malibu car that is actually STILL a Malibu.

But I don't mind them if they are 100% all the way (like someone said back a couple of pages)... Too many times have I walked up to a "SS" car, and stuck my head inside only to see Malibu emblems on the door panel, and/or a sweeper dash still in place. Dead give away! That's what angers me the most, and they stil actaully try to pass it off as a SS but its obvious that it is not.

Last year I saw a 67 "SS 396" car that won the "Most Original Car" trophy. I stuck my head in the engine compartment to look at the cowl tag only to find that it was originally a 6 cylinder car! That's pretty far away from original if you ask me!

You can't really tell by looking at the numbers on a 70-72, so if do do everything you can to make it a "SS", then its ok, but don't do it half assed and try to pass it off as the real deal.

Alright...I'm calling out all so called "SS" owners on this forum out right now. Especially if you call yourself SSDan, SSMike, etc. Lets see some of the paperwork! No paperwork, you need to change your name to MalibuDan or MalibuMike, etc.

I have a '68--got the correct 138xx VIN--don't need no paperwork. :p :D :waving:

BillL

I personally get more excited seeing a clean original 307 malibu over any clone.