I checked all the clearances mains and rod clearance is right on. JE pistons .004 -.0045 clearance honed with torque plates ring gap .034.036 .015. The bearings are in right with the chamfer towards the fillet. I'm using CRC Anti Seize Engine Assembly Lube. I have never used this product before and it looks like 80 weight. Another thing I’m using is the new product, Quick seat by Total Seal looks like a powder graphite material that is the only thing they say to put in the cylinders other than a light coat of WD 40 then you wipe cylinders till dry and apply this product. The pistons seem to be really dragging not just one like I have a pinched ring all of them. Could it be this dam lube?

Tight is good :D

How hard is it to turn over? I assume the heads are not installed yet.

30-foot lbs. guessing this is with no heads. I then put one on to see if things would change and to figure my pushrod length. Nothing changed

I checked all the clearances mains and rod clearance is right on. JE pistons .004 -.0045 clearance honed with torque plates ring gap .034.036 .015. The bearings are in right with the chamfer towards the fillet. I'm using CRC Anti Seize Engine Assembly Lube. I have never used this product before and it looks like 80 weight. Another thing I’m using is the new product, Quick seat by Total Seal looks like a powder graphite material that is the only thing they say to put in the cylinders other than a light coat of WD 40 then you wipe cylinders till dry and apply this product. The pistons seem to be really dragging not just one like I have a pinched ring all of them. Could it be this dam lube?
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Yes it will be harder to turn over with the "Qwik Seat" & do not be surprised if you hear some slightly "unusual" noises too. ;)

Question is did it get progressively harder as you added pistons or was this something that happened with a certain piston?
If you have any reservations check them all again. It is a lot better to check now then,,,, well, you know,,

I don't use Qwik Seat anymore, did try it & it seemed ok but I went back to C&A's assembly lube for the pistons, just like it better.

Now,, my next question is what in the world is with the ring end gaps??
I am hoping what you put is a misprint?

What kind of gap would you run with a Race fogger and a 350 to 400 shot.
It might have been .032 .034 it's at home yea I know it's big better safe than sorry. No the drag was about the same from the first piston

Mind if I ask what C & A's assembly lube is? I've always used motor oil, yeah I know, just built 4 engines :D

What kind of gap would you run with a Race fogger and a 350 to 400 shot.
It might have been .032 .034 it's at home yea I know it's big better safe than sorry. No the drag was about the same from the first piston
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Well,, that makes a bit if difference,, :D
What Bore?
I am not a nitrous guy but .0065-.007/inch top is all I would give it.
When you are this wide you don't need more on the second.
If the drag just got heavier as you installed more pistons & you feel no tight or unusual spots it sounds fine to me with the dry lube.
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Bob,
Childs & Albert Assembly lube.
It is a thin assembly lube with some pretty fair hi pressure additives in it & we use it SPARINGLY on the bores.
In other words, I put some in the bores, wipe them out with a paper towel & install the pistons.
Used to do the same thing with ATF but started using the C&A stuff a few years ago & just like it better
Light oil will also work but what you do not want to do is soak the pistons or walls with lubricant or use any heavier weight oils anymore.
It can cause some real problems with the cylinder & ring finishes of today.

Mike,

You mean no more dunking the assembled pistons in a coffee can of 20Wt oil??

That's the way I was taught by the old-timers..

pdq67

Quote by pdq67
You mean no more dunking the assembled pistons in a coffee can of 20Wt oil??

Me too but to pervent glazing before the rings seat this is something new and if it works ill try it.


4.125 bore Mike but I have talked to allot of guys that build just Nos stuff and they say at .028 with that much spray they'll butt for sure.
Different gap from the top to the bottom because of the aluminum heads Speed pro tech who makes Hell fire rings that's what I'm using said .032 .032

.032, Wow that sure seems like a lot of gap, your oil is going to get dirty fast for sure. Better get a good evac system setup or she's going to blow gaskets.

Quote by pdq67
You mean no more dunking the assembled pistons in a coffee can of 20Wt oil??

Me too but to pervent glazing before the rings seat this is something new and if it works ill try it.


4.125 bore Mike but I have talked to allot of guys that build just Nos stuff and they say at .028 with that much spray they'll butt for sure.
Different gap from the top to the bottom because of the aluminum heads Speed pro tech who makes Hell fire rings that's what I'm using said .032 .032
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If that's what the Speed Pro tech says I won't argue the issue even though I don't totally agree with it as like I said, I am not a nitrous expert but I do not understand what the aluminum head has to do with the ring gaps & am afraid I would have to debate this with him :D

There is not, or at least should not be that much heat at the second ring & running much extra gap here because of nitrous just doesn't make sense to me & running extra gap here due to aluminum heads makes even less sense??

I normally run the second gap wider than the top normally aspirated like .0045 top, .0055 second / inch to keep the inter-ring pressure down so the top ring does not get blown off the cylinder at higher rpm's & maybe the thinking is you will have more problems here with the nitrous usage but if the mixture & timing are right I ain't quite buyin it,,
But I certainly do agree that if there is any question I would err on the high side as I think you did,,

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"Mike,

You mean no more dunking the assembled pistons in a coffee can of 20Wt oil??

That's the way I was taught by the old-timers..

pdq67"

Hey,,, I am one of them "old timers" :sad:

If you look at the cylinder finishes of years ago, they looked more like something done with a body grinder than a 400 grit stone & Torque plates were pretty much non-existant
And rings were not finish lapped like they are today.

These days most rings are pretty much broke in on the starter,,, :D

I Agree With Wolfplace On The Ring Gap Issue ( Seems Like Way To Much ) I Would Go Around .004 - .005 Per Inch Of Cylider Bore - This Would Mean You Should Be Around .020 On The Top Ring And .022 On The Second Ring - If You're Going To Increase The Gap For The Increased Cylinder Pressure From The Nitrous I Might Would Go .024 Top And .026 Second But No More - Surely No Where Near The .030's Range ( Way To Much Imho )

I was told by an instructor at UTI that excessive use of that white lithium assembly lube will remove the clearances in the bearings. Meaning that the lube itself is so thick it will lock up the motor, or make it very difficult to turn.

Maybe he means .0035 instead of .035, etc.?

I'm home now and looking at my notes .032 on the top .034 on the second ring. Speed pro literature says .oo7 X inch of bore.
So .007 x 4.125 = .0288 Then it has a recommendation range .028-.030. Then in my notes I also see the tech at speed pro said this is a general range for drag race NOS for your application 350 to 400 HP of NOS he recommended.
.034 .034. Then we had talked a little more and he mentioned the Aluminum head thing. I told him I was running the dart 227 CNC's He saiid that aluminum doesn’t hold heat like cast and the gap on the top ring could be tightened up.
Yes I am going to run an evac system on the headers their 2" primary Lemons headers
I didn't just pull these gap numbers out of my rear. I had talked to at least 8 different engine builders who specifically build big NOS adder engines.
I have never built an engine to take this much nos. I only went as high as 250 last year on my other small block. The gaps were .029 .029 and I know that is butted the rings after we hit it with the 250 jets it smoked a little.
I feel good about the gaps better safe than sorry.

And like Wolf place said

Quote by Wolf place
But I certainly do agree that if there is any question I would err on the high side as I think you did,,

I was told by an instructor at UTI that excessive use of that white lithium assembly lube will remove the clearances in the bearings. Meaning that the lube itself is so thick it will lock up the motor, or make it very difficult to turn.
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Who said anything about lithium assembly lube?? I personally don't use that stuff for anything in an engine,,,

C&A assembly lube is about the consistency of 20 wgt oil & the only place I use this is in the bores,,,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfplace
Who said anything about lithium assembly lube?? I personally don't use that stuff for anything in an engine,,,

C&A assembly lube is about the consistency of 20 wgt oil & the only place I use this is in the bores,,,

So you use a light coat of C+A in the cylinders. What do you use on the crank and rod bearings?

P.S. If I didn't say it before Mike thanks for all your help!
Thanks to everyone else who responded 10 brains are better than one.

The engine should be done today with a little work on the dipstick tube to clear the pan Not sure why Dart doesn’t mill a small groove in that big billet cap for the dipstick tube. I also have some clearance grinding on the comp cams stainless rockers. Even with the 1.550 springs it's tight probably .030 clearance. I tried 8.000 8.050 8.100 and 8.150 and the 8.100 has the best geometry with a nice pattern. Adjust the valve train put the intake on tape, prime and paint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfplace
Who said anything about lithium assembly lube?? I personally don't use that stuff for anything in an engine,,,

C&A assembly lube is about the consistency of 20 wgt oil & the only place I use this is in the bores,,,

So you use a light coat of C+A in the cylinders. What do you use on the crank and rod bearings?

P.S. If I didn't say it before Mike thanks for all your help!
Thanks to everyone else who responded 10 brains are better than one.

The engine should be done today with a little work on the dipstick tube to clear the pan Not sure why Dart doesn’t mill a small groove in that big billet cap for the dipstick tube. I also have some clearance grinding on the comp cams stainless rockers. Even with the 1.550 springs it's tight probably .030 clearance. I tried 8.000 8.050 8.100 and 8.150 and the 8.100 has the best geometry with a nice pattern. Adjust the valve train put the intake on tape, prime and paint.

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I use Clevite Bearing Guard on the bearings.

And thanks, you are welcome. :beers: