Hey guys, well I need know what it takes to put in a roller cam. I have a 454 BBC bored 30 over and about 9.7 compression. Can I just swap in a roller cam or would I need to do something to the block? Also, I hear that rollers are not prone to wiping a lobe with initial start up, is this true? Does this apply to both solid and hydraulic roller cams? Anything else I should know? What's with this cam button I hear about?

TIA! :beers:

Hey guys, well I need know what it takes to put in a roller cam. I have a 454 BBC bored 30 over and about 9.7 compression. Can I just swap in a roller cam or would I need to do something to the block? Also, I hear that rollers are not prone to wiping a lobe with initial start up, is this true? Does this apply to both solid and hydraulic roller cams? Anything else I should know? What's with this cam button I hear about?

TIA! :beers:
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Cam is the easy part. No work to the block is needed.
Yes it is true,, & yes it applies to both :thumbsup:
You will need to change springs as rollers need more pressure to control them.
The thrust button is to control the cam end play as a roller has no taper in the lobes to keep the cam from trying to "walk" out the front of the engine. It goes in front of the cam & rides on the front cover.
You can also use a thrust plate with the late timing set up but this takes a different cam machined for this setup.
You do not want a cast core roller be it solid or hyd, you want a billet preferably with a cast distributor gear.
Do not skimp on lifters. Use either the Isky Red Zones or the Crower with the hi pressure pin oiling option.
My preference is the Isky's. There are other lifters claiming to have pressure oiling but they do not have true pressure pin oiling.

With a hyd roller there are a number of excellent retro-fit rollers including Isky, Crane, Comp, & I assume Lunati has a good hyd also but don't know what they use.
Harold could answer this.

If you are interested in the Isky Lifters, I have pretty fair pricing. ;)

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Cam is the easy part. No work to the block is needed.
Yes it is true,, & yes it applies to both :thumbsup:
You will need to change springs as rollers need more pressure to control them.
The thrust button is to control the cam end play as a roller has no taper in the lobes to keep the cam from trying to "walk" out the front of the engine. It goes in front of the cam & rides on the front cover.
You can also use a thrust plate with the late timing set up but this takes a different cam machined for this setup.
You do not want a cast core roller be it solid or hyd, you want a billet preferably with a cast distributor gear.
Do not skimp on lifters. Use either the Isky Red Zones or the Crower with the hi pressure pin oiling option.
My preference is the Isky's. There are other lifters claiming to have pressure oiling but they do not have true pressure pin oiling.

With a hyd roller there are a number of excellent retro-fit rollers including Isky, Crane, Comp, & I assume Lunati has a good hyd also but don't know what they use.
Harold could answer this.

If you are interested in the Isky Lifters, I have pretty fair pricing. ;)

For the button, do I need a special timing chain cover? What should the clearance be between the cover and the button? Can it be checked easily? What does a roller cam cost with springs and lifters? Thanks for the great tips Mike! :thumbsup:

You need a decent timing cover. That means stay away from the cheap chrome ones. Stock GM cover works fine. The clearance spec comes with the cam. Mine is 0.004 to 0.010. It's easy to check on a big block because you can see so much of the cam through the valley. Just put a dial indicator against the side of a lobe and rock the cam back and forth with button and timing cover installed. Don't forget to use a timing cover gasket at this stage!

Not sure what a complete kit costs these days. For a conversion you will need the button, retro lifters, cam lock plate, shorter pushrods and the proper valve springs. If you're running a mechanical fuel pump you need a compatible pump push rod.

Are roller cams reserve mainly for bracket and race cars? I was looking at a few on the Jegs website, and most, if not all are about of my rpm range.

For the button, do I need a special timing chain cover? What should the clearance be between the cover and the button? Can it be checked easily? What does a roller cam cost with springs and lifters? Thanks for the great tips Mike! :thumbsup:
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Zwede pretty well covered it.
You are going to spend around $1000 to do it right.
Or,,,, you can spend less the first time & do it twice :D

Are roller cams reserve mainly for bracket and race cars? I was looking at a few on the Jegs website, and most, if not all are about of my rpm range.
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You can get a roller ground for any application you need but you want to talk to a cam designer or engine builder for a recommendation before you run out & buy one & you need to be very honest about your goals & your combination,,,

Too many folks end up with way more cam then they need & end up unhappy with the results :sad:

Probably the main reason that all the roller cams in the catalog look so radical are because of this. For the most part, if somebody wants to build a strong street/strip engine(Which I assume your trying to do the same), they typically just use a hydro camshaft. Most people arent gonna spend all that money on a roller cam for a streetbound engine that might see 6000rpm every once in a while. They typically use hydraulic cams cause they are just fine, so mild solid rollers dont sell like crazy. So, if the catalogs are gonna print solid cams of any sort, they just list the bigger ones cause they will sell. Its just the opposite at the track. Most all of the real fast cars have a solid cam of some sort, whereas most of your fast street cars have a hydraulic and sometimes a solid flat tappet. So the smaller rollers would probably get looked over in favor of a cheaper hydraulic or something.........so why not save catalog space and just not put them in there. Know what Im sayin.

Anyways, that doesnt mean they arent out there. Although solid rollers are typically reserved for bracket racing, many manufacturers do cary mild, streetable solid roller cams. Youve just got to check out their whole catalog and its very possible to find one that will fit your needs without having to get anything custom ground. But its true that if you look in summit or jegs at rollers, most all of the rollers you see will be competition minded and have a powerband of something like 3800-7000rpm. Youve just got to look around a little harder outside of the summit and jegs catalogs and you can find the more streetable ones.

Oh yeah, another reason why street people stray away from solid rollers is the misconception that a solid roller will beat up and wear out a valvetrain very quickly and you need to constantly set lash. Thats not totally true. It is with the radical ones, but like I said, there are street friendly rollers out there. And with a descent valvetrain and one of the more street friendly camshafts, you wont have to set lash constantly and your valvetrain wont wear out in short order. Depending on how frequently you drive and how hard you drive it, you might need to adjust lash a couple times a year and get a lot of miles out of it.

EkS,

Are you considering going solid or hydraulic on your roller, granted that the cost hasn't made your reconsider?

Mike

EkS,

I have both hydraulic roller and solid roller VooDoo cams either available, or by September. I have some in stock now, and we're working hard to have them all ready for the July 15th release date.
Here are the Gen IV numbers:

60210 262/270 211/219 .550"/.550" 112
60211 272/280 221/229 .575"/.575" 112
60212 282/290 231/239 .600"/.600" 110
60213 292/300 241/249 .625"/.625" 110

I'm working on some more to fill in or add were I think we could use them, and these are available for the Gen VI, with different part numbers.
I also have something really, really, special coming out with an unique use of one. I hope to blow a few minds......

There are solid VooDoo rollers also, but no part numbers, and a September release date. I will have:
.020" .050" valve lift LSA
261/267 231/237 .629"/.642" 110
267/273 237/243 .642"/.655" 110
273/279 243/249 .655"/.664" 110
279/285 249/255 .664"/.680" 110
285/293 255/263 .680"/.680" 110

These should be sold through Jeg's and Summit. Ones on special LSAs will be available from Lunati, as always.
I am trying to get a dyno test on the 273/279 now, but the 502 now has Hollley Oval Ports on it, instead of the Canfield 310s, so the power will not be a straightline comparison. All these solid rollers have soft closing ramps, for good valve train life.

UDHarold

EkS,

Are you considering going solid or hydraulic on your roller, granted that the cost hasn't made your reconsider?

Mike


I will most likely go with a hydraulic.


EkS,

I have both hydraulic roller and solid roller VooDoo cams either available, or by September. I have some in stock now, and we're working hard to have them all ready for the July 15th release date.
Here are the Gen IV numbers:

60210 262/270 211/219 .550"/.550" 112
60211 272/280 221/229 .575"/.575" 112
60212 282/290 231/239 .600"/.600" 110
60213 292/300 241/249 .625"/.625" 110

I'm working on some more to fill in or add were I think we could use them, and these are available for the Gen VI, with different part numbers.
I also have something really, really, special coming out with an unique use of one. I hope to blow a few minds......

There are solid VooDoo rollers also, but no part numbers, and a September release date. I will have:
.020" .050" valve lift LSA
261/267 231/237 .629"/.642" 110
267/273 237/243 .642"/.655" 110
273/279 243/249 .655"/.664" 110
279/285 249/255 .664"/.680" 110
285/293 255/263 .680"/.680" 110

These should be sold through Jeg's and Summit. Ones on special LSAs will be available from Lunati, as always.
I am trying to get a dyno test on the 273/279 now, but the 502 now has Hollley Oval Ports on it, instead of the Canfield 310s, so the power will not be a straightline comparison. All these solid rollers have soft closing ramps, for good valve train life.

UDHarold

UDHarold,

What would you recommend? I have a:

454 bored 30 over
063 oval port heads 95 cc (ported) with 2.19/1.88 valves
*Flow Numbers @ 28": Intake @ .600 325 cfm / Ex @ .600 230 cfm
TRW Flat top pistons 9.7:1 Compression
Weiand 8005 intake (ported)
Holley 750 CFM
TH350
Posi rear 3.73

I want good streetable power. I will go to the track once in a while. I do have power brakes.

Never mind b/c I just saw the 95 cc heads!!!!!

pdq67

Anyone?

If you want primarily a street cam and looking at Harolds offerings above, the 60211 looks good. You're giving up a few ponies but it will idle great in traffic and if you ever get an overdrive tranny it will handle that fine.

The next step up, the 60212, will give more power but start to act up a little in traffic. Still not bad though. You could ask for the 60212 on a 112 LSA and it will still work your power brakes and tame it some.

I will most likely go with a hydraulic.




UDHarold,

What would you recommend? I have a:

454 bored 30 over
063 oval port heads 95 cc (ported) with 2.19/1.88 valves
*Flow Numbers @ 28": Intake @ .600 325 cfm / Ex @ .600 230 cfm
TRW Flat top pistons 9.7:1 Compression
Weiand 8005 intake (ported)
Holley 750 CFM
TH350
Posi rear 3.73

I want good streetable power. I will go to the track once in a while. I do have power brakes.
=
Not to be skeptical,,, but where did you get those flow numbers on a set of closed chamber GM ovals?
For comparison, I have flowed some pretty well done open port ovals & those are as good or better numbers than some I have seen that have a ton of money & time in them & were done by one of the best porters I know.

Not saying it can't be done, just that it is not going to be done with your standard big valve, bowl blend & port clean-up etc,,,

As a reference, the 290cc Ede roval flows about those numbers out of the box & is better than any stock GM head I have seen except the one GM sells that is the same head & about as good as some of the best ported stock castings, at least any I have compared on my bench,,,

for another reference, the 270cc Brodix RR oval with the CNC chamber option flows an honest 340+ & is in my opinion the best oval out at this time.

I just took a stock bore 454 off the dyno with Brodix RR heads, RPM intake, 9.76 measured compression & an Isky hyd flat tappet cam that was 270/280, 221/232 on a 110 & it made 540+lbs ft at about 4400 & 500+ HP at 5600.
I would expect your engine with the GM heads to make pretty close to this with Harold's 60211 hyd roller & I would think closer to 550 with the Brodix head
This is of course assuming your heads are done pretty good :)

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Not to be skeptical,,, but where did you get those flow numbers on a set of closed chamber GM ovals?
For comparison, I have flowed some pretty well done open port ovals & those are as good or better numbers than some I have seen that have a ton of money & time in them & were done by one of the best porters I know.

Not saying it can't be done, just that it is not going to be done with your standard big valve, bowl blend & port clean-up etc,,,

As a reference, the 290cc Ede roval flows about those numbers out of the box & is better than any stock GM head I have seen except the one GM sells that is the same head & about as good as some of the best ported stock castings, at least any I have compared on my bench,,,

for another reference, the 270cc Brodix RR oval with the CNC chamber option flows an honest 340+ & is in my opinion the best oval out at this time.

I just took a stock bore 454 off the dyno with Brodix RR heads, RPM intake, 9.76 measured compression & an Isky hyd flat tappet cam that was 270/280, 221/232 on a 110 & it made 540+lbs ft at about 4400 & 500+ HP at 5600.
I would expect your engine with the GM heads to make pretty close to this with Harold's 60211 hyd roller & I would think closer to 550 with the Brodix head
This is of course assuming your heads are done pretty good :)

I bought the BB from a TC member. Those are the numbers he got from the machine shop the heads got done at. I have a copy of the invoice. Anything you can recommend for a hyd roller? What about a Hyd flat tappet?

I bought the BB from a TC member. Those are the numbers he got from the machine shop the heads got done it. Anything you can recommend for a hyd roller? What about a Hyd flat tappet?
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Why yes,,
Read Harold's post or the one I just posted. He listed a number of cams a couple of posts back
These are the two I would consider for your application except I would like the first one on a 110.
60211 272/280 221/229 .575"/.575" 112
60212 282/290 231/239 .600"/.600" 110
He also has a number of new hyd flat tappet cams & any one in the 225/235 area is going to work fine for you.
The Isky I used was a 396271/281 ground on a 110 which I can get for you if you like.
Just email me & I will be glad to give you some prices.

For Lunati, Summit & Jegs sell them but it appears the gentleman at Lunati that handles new accounts does not seem have the time to return mine or my wife's calls so I have about given up on them after about 5 months of being ignored :mad:
BTW, this has nothing to do with Harold, he is not in the business of setting up new accounts,,,,

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Why yes,,
Read Harold's post or the one I just posted. He listed a number of cams a couple of posts back
These are the two I would consider for your application except I would like the first one on a 110.
60211 272/280 221/229 .575"/.575" 112
60212 282/290 231/239 .600"/.600" 110
He also has a number of new hyd flat tappet cams & any one in the 225/235 area is going to work fine for you.
The Isky I used was a 396271/281 ground on a 110 which I can get for you if you like.
Just email me & I will be glad to give you some prices.

For Lunati, Summit & Jegs sell them but it appears the gentleman at Lunati that handles new accounts does not seem have the time to return mine or my wife's calls so I have about given up on them after about 5 months of being ignored :mad:
BTW, this has nothing to do with Harold, he is not in the business of setting up new accounts,,,,

Sent you an email.