So my car has had troubling starting for a few weeks now, where it will click like the battery is dead a couple of times and then start just fine. SO this morning it clicked once then it started up for a second and then everything went dead. There is nothing on the inside, the light isn't on, the clock doesn't work, the radio doesn't work, I don't get even a click when the key is on. The battery is charged and even with a jumper on it everything is the same. The starter will spin if I jump it with a screwdriver. The amp gauge wires, one of them is hot, and the other isn't, I think that is the way it is supposed to be so I don't think that is the problem. At the junction block there is one 10 (?) red wire from the battery, one 10 gauge black wire that goes nowhere it just goes to a fuse thing and then comes out orange and is dead ended, this wire I think it might cause the problem becuase it was exposed and the fuse was blown and not connected to anything. however I couldn't find anything to connect it to and just replacing the fuse and capping it didn't fix anything. There is another 10 gauge wire that goes straight into the harness and I'm not sure where it goes. Any ideas? The ignition switch is brand new, and the fuse box is 3 years old on the inside and original on the engine side.
Thanks for any help
pop

Are you sure the battery cables are good, and all the connections are nice and clean? Dirty connections or corroded wires can have the same symptoms as what you describe - sometimes work ok, sometimes not.

could be the ignition switch went bad

The ignition switch is new, and even if it wasn't shouldn't the clock and the dome light still work? The battery cables are new there is no corrosion or anything but I will check them just to be sure, the starter works when it is jumpered and that leads me to believe that the cables and connections are fine. Also, all those wires I described are coming off the horn relay not the junction block, however I don't have a horn relay they are all just connected directly to the one from the battery.
thanks
pop

I would double check your battery cables. Also, you may want to check your wiring harness as it may have chaffed the insuation off someplace over the years causing it to short out sometimes and work fine the next.

do you think maybe its a fusible link from the horn relay area to the fuse block? how would I check for a break in that? what do the fusible links look like?

First of all, what vehicle?

Check for 12 volts at the little terminal on the core support and at the BAT terminal on the horn relay.

There is a main fusible link on the BIG post of the starter along with the positive battery cable on 72 Chevelles

oops sorry, its a 70 chevelle malibu, 350 4bbl. The horn relay is gone the wires are all just connected directly to each other and then the horn is operated through a seperate relay. The red wire from the battery has 12 volts and the wire going to the alternator also has 12 volts.

oops sorry, its a 70 chevelle malibu, 350 4bbl. The horn relay is gone the wires are all just connected directly to each other and then the horn is operated through a seperate relay. The red wire from the battery has 12 volts and the wire going to the alternator also has 12 volts.

Then I would start checking where the wires are all connected together (where the BAT terminal of the horn relay WAS.)
I bet there is a burned up fusible link or maybe just a bad connection there.

Both wires on the volt meter should have power if it's an original 70 gauge.
One wire connected to the positive terminal post on the core support and the other connected to the BAT terminal of the horn relay.

Might possible have a bad connection at the bulk head connector also.

where is the bulk head connector, and the post on the core support?
I'm at work right now so I'm just trying to get ideas for when I get home for things to check so I'm not sure if any of these will work until later on tonight. Also the car is at my friends house where there is no internet so I'm just trying to figure out a bunch of things to go through when I get there.

The bulk head connector is behind the fuse block assy, where the wiring harness plugs into the firewall under the master cylinder.
The main positive terminal stud is on the core support near the battery. A pigtail comes off the positive battery cable and connects to it to supply power from there to the horn relay and on to the bulk head connector to the fuse block.

I love a good mystery.

Oh, nothing more to add. Sounds like these guys got you covered.

So here is what I've got so far, the battery cables are good they both are clean and connected well, the starter still spins. I checked the junction block and it has a good connection with 12V on the wires going in and coming out. At the relay the bat has 12V and the wire going to the back of the fuse block has 12V, so I checked to see if it has 12V at the back of fuse block and it does. So that is a red 12gauge wire that enters at the top of the fuse block on the engine side. But still nothing has any volts on the inside. I haven't checked the bulk head because I didn't have the right tools when I was there, what should I look for when I take I pull the fuse block off? Also the fuse block, on both sides, moves pretty easily it isn't tight to anything. Would that cause all these problems? What wires are bringing in current from the engine side of the fuse block when the key is off? so I can check all of them to make sure they are still sending what they are supposed to be.
thanks

Also the fuse block, on both sides, moves pretty easily it isn't tight to anything. Would that cause all these problems? The loose fuse block might have let wires rub and caused a short.

What wires are bringing in current from the engine side of the fuse block when the key is off? so I can check all of them to make sure they are still sending what they are supposed to be.
thanks This link has a pic of the original main power system for Chevy cars.
http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/chevymain1.shtml
For power to get to the dash area from the battery, ( original wiring) From battery through 14g fusible link to junction block at rad support, from junction block at rad support to 10g red to 4 way splice on drivers side fenderwell, from 4 way splice on drivers side fenderwell, 10g red to horn relay, from horn relay, 16g fusible link into 12g red into bulkhead connector, 12g red out of bulkhead connector to another 4 way splice. the 3 wires go to fuse box, IGN switch and headlight switch.

At the junction block there is one 10 (?) red wire from the battery,
This is supposed to be a 14g fusible link. I would replace the 10g wire with one. It protects all of the cars wiring except the big cable to the starter from the battery.

one 10 gauge black wire that goes nowhere it just goes to a fuse thing and then comes out orange and is dead ended, this wire I think it might cause the problem because it was exposed and the fuse was blown and not connected to anything. however I couldn't find anything to connect it to and just replacing the fuse and capping it didn't fix anything.
This wire is originally for the factory amp gauge. It originally had a 20g fusible link.

There is another 10 gauge wire that goes straight into the harness and I'm not sure where it goes. Any ideas? It goes to the 4 way splice on the drivers side fenderwell.
The amp gauge wires, one of them is hot, and the other isn't, I think that is the way it is supposed to be so I don't think that is the problem. Is this a factory amp gauge or a aftermarket gauge??? Where are these wires at? Wires are NOT supposed to be hot!!!
the wire going to the back of the fuse block has 12V, so I checked to see if it has 12V at the back of fuse block and it does. So that is a red 12gauge wire that enters at the top of the fuse block on the engine side. But still nothing has any volts on the inside. That wire may be before the 4 way splice that branch's to the headlights, IGN switch and fuse box.
do you think maybe its a fusible link from the horn relay area to the fuse block? how would I check for a break in that? what do the fusible links look like?
Heres a pic
http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/Dsc00894.jpg
10g on the left comes from the 4 way splice. The wire on the right, 16g into a round cylinder is the fusible link. The 16g is the fusible link. The round cylinder is just the connection into the 12g red which goes to the dash area. See if thats still there where the original horn relay was. If its still there check for voltage on the 12g red. If you have power behind the fuse box, the fusible link might be ok. Now for further troubleshooting I would remove the wire from the battery to the junction block and wire in a test light for the time being. Disconnect any aftermarket radios and clocks and make sure everything is turned off. Also disconnect the alternator and voltage regulator as these items may keep the test light lit if they have a problem. If the fusible is blown and you replace it you might be just reapplying power to your short and may do more damage. First thing is to find out where you stop getting power. (In your case it sound like the 4 way splice behind the fuse box) Second thing you need to do is determine if the short is happening all the time or only with the key on or in the start position. See if your test light is lit with the key off. Then post back.

So here is where it is at. I don't get any power any of the time, with key on or off. But when I started to remove the fuse blocj to check it out, as I moved it everything magically turned back on, and the car would start. I started it up and even the slightest tap on the fuse block made everything shutoff, so I'm sure that connection is the problem, because everything else in the wiring system is just like it is supposed to be, and gets the appropriate voltage when the car is off so I'm going to go dig into the fuseblock and see if there is something obvious that needs to be replaced, or maybe it was just a loose connection. Thanks for the help.

Sounds like you've found the problem.

:thumbsup:

close to it I think. So I just pulled to bulkhead connector apart to see if there is anything obviously wrong, and the only thing is that the red 12G wire looks a little fried where it starts, however I still can't get it to cause the problem everytime. Sometimes when I wiggle the wires the car will lose the power to the inside and other time it wont, but I think it has to be that wire being a little fried because everything else looks normal. So my next question is how to fix that sort of thing because I'm not sure how to pull the wire out and reinstall it with a new connector end. Thanks

You would need the GM “56 series” terminals for the bulkhead connector. You can get them here http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/flat-blade.shtml Replace both sides to make a good connection. You could also just bypass the bulkhead connector and splice in a new piece of wire.