I glanced over this subject when it was posted a few weeks ago, but lot of the responses seemed to favor priming before applying filler. If so, what type of primer?

I looked into this with the PPG product line and was told by their factory help line guy that only their epoxy product could be used in this way. I also talked to the evercoat (filler) people and they said none of their body filler products should be used over any kind of primer (not including spot puddy products of course) so I guess it is a limited application situation. I'm hoping MartinSr. does one of his great "how too" pieces on it because it would be handy on the next project I do. (hint hint) http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif

------------------
70 and 72 Chevelle
ACES # 4051 MCC # 448
TC # 1549 81/70 Cruisers

Being from the old school. It's plastic filler over ground steel.

Polyester putty over primer/filler/bare steel.

My .02

Professor_SS, you guys sure make this old guy feel good with comments like that. I wish I had time to fill all your wishes. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif
Basicly, the only primer that I have EVER seen a recommendation for applying filler over is epoxy. I have known of many guys who I respect a lot who live by it. I have never did it, but plan on it with my next project.


------------------
1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

A far better method than using epoxy under filler is to use etch primer followed by urethane primer. This gives you rust prevention which epoxy does not.
Gordon VM
Restoration Motorsports
http://communities.msn.com/Restorationphotos/shoebox.msnw

How in the world can you say that epoxy primer doesn't offer any rust protection?

I disagree with the statement that epoxy gives no rust prevention. I have a car that proves that it does.

I sand blasted my car and immediatly shot 3 coats of epoxy over the blasted metal. Worked great. There is one thing you have to be aware of if you use epoxy though. If you let it cure for more than 8 hours, it develops a somewhat slippery surface that primer and or filler tend to not stick to.
The solution is to shoot a coat of primer over the epoxy after about 4 to 6 hours of cure time. After that, you are sanding and that will rough up the epoxy just fine and anything will stick.

Dave

I also am in disageement that you cant use fillers over primers and that some primers will offer rust protection.
If you go to this web site for Dupont and look up Dupont Prime-N-Seal #2610 you will find in the tech sheet they state you can use almost any filler over there product and it does protect against rust and can be used over or in place of O.E. factory coatings on new pannels.
not my words theres?
check it out for yourself.
T.C. http://performancecoatings.dupont.com/bowstreet/com.bowstreet.service.DPCLoginMNF/Method:external http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gifPC-Login-HM-C:InterfaceFunction

Sorry about that!
Try this link http://performancecoatings.dupont.com/
then click visitor and look for products.
T.C.

I'll tell you the skinny as far as I know. Epoxy offers good corrosion protection over bare metal. Etch offers more, urethane less. So if yo want the ultimate you would use a "wash" style etch over the bare metal,then epoxy.

Prime-n-seal and many,many more say the same sort of thing. BUT, if you really want to get to the nitty gritty, look at thier "Fleet refinshing" recommendations. I have not looked at DuPonts, but I will bet you a dollar that Prime-n-seal will not even be seen. If it is it will be with one of thier lowest gaurantees probably to be used with Centari. The top of the line gaurantees WILL include an etch and either an epoxy or a HS urethane.
Also, look at the authorizedOEM repair guide. This guide includes the products and uses required by GM, Ford, etc. for dealers to use to maintain the factory warranty. Again, etch primer is used EVERY time as far as I remember.
Check it out.


------------------
1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

I don't know what the web site says, I'll have to check it out. I called PPG's tech support number that my local supplier gave me, talked to a guy at their main office. He said, no filler over anything except their epoxy, I have the number witten down somewhere. Then I read the directions on my can of evercoat metal to metal that I am using and it said bare metal application only, so I looked up their phone number on the web and called it. Talked to their professional applications department guy, he said that they will not stand behind their product if you put it over any primmer or paint, period.

again, don't know about the web sites, but humans said no in this case. Also, this seems to be what MartinSr is saying also and he hasn't steered me wrong yet.

I'm currently using filler on bare metal, dusting with acid etch, then covering with two good wet coats of urethane primer. It would be easier in many respects to use the other system if we could figure out how it works exactly.

------------------
70 and 72 Chevelle
ACES # 4051 MCC # 448
TC # 1549 81/70 Cruisers

MartinSR is right.The ultimate system for rust provention is etch prime followed with urethane primer for fill and sealing. There is really no need to use epoxies for anything. One other factor no one has talked about is; when you spray 2 part epoxy and the panels are not at least 60 degrees or higher, the will not cure properly and never will. Etch prime is not as sensitive to this problem. And even though urethane must also cure at 60 or higher, if it isn't warm enough when you apply it, it will resume cure the next time it is warmed to 60 or above.
Gordon VM
Restoration Motorsports http://communities.msn.com/Restorationphotos/shoebox.msnw

ArtT, I can say that exoxy give inferior rust protection to etch primer because all of the major paint manufactuters have proven it. I also have done my own testing to see firsthand for myself.
Gordon VM
Restoration Motorsports http://communities.msn.com/Restorationphotos/shoebox.msnw

"I'm currently using filler on bare metal, dusting with acid etch, then covering with two good wet coats of urethane primer. It would be easier in many respects to use the other system if we could figure out how it works exactly"

Professer, that is how I have been doing it for years, no problems here. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif
Except, watch it on the "wet" part. Read the "atomization basics" http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif



------------------
1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

Does the acid etch react with the filler? Do you need to avoid spraying it on filler, or is it not a problem?

I have not had a problem with it, but I make sure I don't soak it with the stuff, I have talked to several guys that say as long as your careful and don't apply it really wet that you should not have trouble... I kind of let up on the gun as I get to the filler so that I have a lighter dusting on that area.

------------------
70 and 72 Chevelle
ACES # 4051 MCC # 448
TC # 1549 81/70 Cruisers

I was really conserned as to what I am doing.
So I contacted Dupont Tech. via E-mail.
I ask them about the Dupont Prime-N-Seal under and over Rage Gold and All-Metal on bare metal that had been chemically etched and then cleaned and also wiped down with Fial Kleen I especially ask about adhesion issues.

This is not to argue with you guys its more to set my mind at ease, anyway this is there reply. T.C.

Thank you for your inquiry and interest in Du Pont products. I really do
not see any adhesion issues with what you are doing. The Epoxy Prime-n-Seal
can go direct to properly treated metal and you can use filler both over
and under an Epoxy. I can't see where those who say you have adhesion
issues are coming from. Based on what is in your note I do not see a
problem. There could be an issue if you metal treated the entire vehicle
and did not clean and resand the areas where filler is to metal. Metal
treatment should not be under fillers I get around that by simply outlining
the dented area with a lead pencil. Then when ready for filler I solvent
clean then run an 80 grit over the area and that gets rid of the coating
the treatment leaves. The only other issue I can think of is with filler on
top of the Epoxy you need to let the Epoxy dry well, at least 24 hours and
48 is better, then sand the filler area well. I normally do that with an 80
grit as well. If I go through to metal some I do not see that as an issue
and go ahead with the filler. I simply see no problem.


Gary Mitchell
Sr. Technical Specialist / DuPont Performance Coatings
LIONVILLE, PA USA

what metal prep product are you using? is this a acid wash? what filler are you going to use? like I said, if this system works it would really be helpful compared to some of the hoops I've had to jump through the way I'm doing it now. My biggest problem is that I have to work on it in my spare time, which is really limited. So when I work on a large area I sometimes get in a situation where I get it down to bare metal, maybe some filler on and then have to leave it for a few days. This often ends in some flash rust which I then have to sand off.

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70 and 72 Chevelle
ACES # 4051 MCC # 448
TC # 1549 81/70 Cruisers

First of all I agree with Gordon that expoy offers no or very little rust protection. I state this becuase I too have done my own testing and had many converstions with PPG paint reps. I too have a car that proves expoy over bare metal is a joke, I had to haul a PPG paint rep out to my house to look at my car only to hear him say "You should have applied a etch primer instead of expoy" Every rep Ive talked too says not to use expoy over bare metal, use a self etching primer like DX 1791, DPX 171 or DUponts variprime.

Something else that came up in those converstions was applying filler over expoy, and what I heard from the reps was that PPG will only guarentee the filler over expoy method, is if their line of DP body fillers is used. Not saying that Rage or something else cant be used instead but in case something goes wrong be prepared when PPG laughs in your face because you didnt use their fillers.

Ive tried the filler over expoy and like it. I first sprayed on a Sherwin Williams self etching primer then followed by DP expoy. I let the expoy sit for a week then came back and did my filler work. This project was done almost four years ago and have yet to see any problems

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1970 chevelle
1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a buick baby
1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/sevt_chevelles

Professor SS :
Keep in mind I am by no means a professional body man.

I am using a product called Metal Ready put out by the POR 15 people.(im sure Dupont makes a similar product)
It is an acid etch and also will kill/remove surface rust. But you have to make sure you clean it off completly befor you paint.
I have places on my car that are going on two years with just the Prime-N-Seal over the bare metal and I have NO rust on my body.
I also work on my car after work and on weekends in Fla. in a damp shed/garage.
My plan was to strip the paint and get the intire car in epoxy primer killing or replacing the rusty parts, doing all the nessary welding as I went along. Then come back and do the body work.
Now I am to that point where im doing the filling and metal bumping.
What I do is skuff the area where I am going to work, then do whatever it is I am going to do, but before I go into the house for the nite that area has a coat of Prim-n-Seal on it to be sure the rust doesnt come.
I am using mostly Evercoat products AllMetal and Rage Gold and I have just started to use glazing putty that works really well.
From what I can tell the etching primer adds no rust prevention or sealing propertys it just eats it's way into the metal. So whats the difference if you chemically etch and then use epoxy that seals and primes?
You could ask or do a search over at the Autobody store web site I know it's been discussed over there many times weather to use etching or epoxy primer.
hope this helps?
T.C.

As I stated I am no professional painter.
But I can tell your metal etch primer does not hold out rust, it is only there to promote adheasion. The only way you are going to hold out the rust with etching primer is by putting something over it that will hold out rust and that would be an epoxy type primer.
Put a part painted only with etching primer out in the weather for a couple of days and see what happens--rust.
Epoxy primers are made to seal the part, Im not talking about high build 2K primers, im talking epoxy.
Im sure there are other types of paint that will hold out rust and seal the metal from the elements.
My post above is copied direcly from E-mail I recieved from a Dupont tech person, I dont know about PPG products as I am using Dupont I WILL do as the Dupont people say.
Accually I think if you check into it you may find fillers dont stick to etching primers very well at all?
T.C.

So TC,

You are basically saying MartinSr and GordonVm are wrong about recommending etch primer as the first thing applied to bare metal followed by urethane primer? Also according to you, one needs to block sand epoxy primer.... Is what MartinSr wrote in his "paint technology basics" not worth the..ummmm....screen it was typed upon?! It seems to me that it is not recommended to leave ANY primer out in rain or really humid areas- etch or epoxy. If you're going to use a 2k primer over the etch (my MDS for my etching primer says nothing about water resistance ALONE), why bother with a more expensive epoxy?

Coming from a professional body man and painter, self etch is not just used for adhesion, its mainly used for its rust fighting characteristics. Expoy doesnt stand up agaist rust like a self etch primer. Dupont might be different but both PPG and Sherwin Williams recommend the usage of a self etching primer. Ive talked to many PPG paint reps from all over the midwest and every single one of them said that for the best rust protection the use of a self etch primer is recommend over an expoy. I used both PPG and now use SW paint at work and from what I now hear from shops that use PPG, PPG is trying to fade out the DP expoies due to the fact that they just dont hold up like a self etch primer will and does.

On one of my chevelles I replaced the floor and the trunk floor, and before I installed them I applied DP90 to the floor and a self etch primer DX1791 to the trunk floor because I ran out of DP90. One day I moved it out of the shop for some cleaning and before I could move it inside it had rained. The car sat outside for at least five hours in the rain before I got home to move it back in. When I returned to the shop a week later the areas painted with the DP90 had rust blisters coming through and where the self etch was, there was nothing, and it wasnt topcoated with anything just DX1791. Dont tell me that I didnt apply the expoy right cause I work with this stuff day in and day out.

I work at a shop that does alot of repair work for ford and dodge and we have to follow the repair guidelines to a T in order to have the cars maintain their warranty. Both Ford and Dodge highly recommend the use of etch primer not expoy, and where it says HIGHLY RECOMMEND you better damn well do it.

When I do apply filler over expoy I apply a self etch primer FIRST then apply the expoy allowing it fully cure and then I apply the the filler. No paint manufacuture that I know of has a self etch primer that can be topcoated with filler only an expoy primer recommended by the paint manu can be topcoated with filler.

Looking through the Dupont tech sheets that I have the tech sheet for Prime N Seal states that for optimum adhesion and corrosion resistance over exposed bare metal areas, first apply 2 coats of Variprime.(which would be a self etching primer) Also the highest warranty which is the lifetime, Vaprime is listed for the recommend primer, prime n seal is listed but only for a much lesser warranty of 5 years. Not my words, words from the Dupont tech sheets

Iam stating this from years of experience repairing and painting cars and conservations from both PPG and SW paint reps. Its just the plan fact...expoy is inferior to a self etch primer...Eric



------------------
1970 chevelle
1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a buick baby
1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/sevt_chevelles

Well I guess you guys took an additude towards me for listening to the Dupont Tech. when he advised (in writing) he seen NO problem with what I was doing?
Thats to bad, I was looking for insite and opinion NOT an arguement.
I was about to sand the whole car down again on what I seen here, so I e-mailed Dupont to find out if I was f----- up I am sure glad I did!
JU87
I never said one word about block sanding anything? and I NEVER said MartinSr and GordonVm were wrong.
I gave MY opinion based on the information that I have obtained from the Autobody site and most important Dupont, and if you will remember I stated more than once that I am NOT a professional body man.
I know for a fact there are Professional body people over at the Autobody web site that dont agree with etching primer (Len included).
sevt_chevelle
You are correct! In rereading the tech. sheet on the Prim-n-Seal it does state that for best corrosion resistance to use vari prime. But it also states it has good corrosion and adhesion propertys without it.

A question for you? when doing your repair you stated the etching primer gets ground off with the other primer. correct? So whats the point? your not putting it back on befor the filler so you have no barrier between the filler and the metal, Wont the filler suck up moisture and cause you problems?
What are you going to seal the filler with that wont let the moisture in?
I think I will do as the Dupont Tech. sheet and tech. person said. as it's Dupont products am using.
For what it's worth I copyied this from the Dupont site.
ChromaSystem™ Technical Manual
Description
Prime ’N Seal® is a two-component, non-sanding primer with corrosion resistance and adhesion for
direct-to-metal applications. This lead- and chromate-free non-sanding primer can be used under
body filler, polyester putties, primer-surfacers and topcoats. Prime ’N Seal® is useful for spot and
panel repairs. It can also be used on replacement parts. Prime ’N Seal® is part of the ValueShade™
system, a DuPont technology that improves topcoat coverage, boosts productivity and reduces paint
consumption.
DuPont Automotive Finishes

Please excuse my ignorance and rest assured I wont post in this forum again.
Regards T.C.

"From what I can tell the etching primer adds no rust prevention or sealing propertys it just eats it's way into the metal."

If you're saying this (see your previous post) your saying that GordonVm and MartinSr, (and sevt_chevelle) are wrong...they recommend the etch then urethane primer route.

I only mentioned block sanding to illustrate the fact that your spending more money than necessary when you are putting down an epoxy JUST for corrosion resistance AND then putting a 2K primer surfacer on top of that to block sand. I didn't read the whole 2 pages of long threads...so sorry.

I can only speak from the quotes for materials I have got- my locality is limited for manufacturers for some reason. What's exactly the point of etching primer if it has no corrosion protection anyway?

"A question for you? when doing your repair you stated the etching primer gets ground off with the other primer. correct? So whats the point? your not putting it back on befor the filler so you have no barrier between the filler and the metal, Wont the filler suck up moisture and cause you problems?"

I know this was directed at another poster, BUT a lot of people still believe in putting the filler over bare metal. Why does there need to be some compelling reason for a barrier between the filler and the metal all of the sudden when people have been filling dents over bare metal since the advent of filler? I would guess that the repairs he was talking about are new cars not old cars... they dont sit in primer for days or years- just hours or minutes. THe repair is painted ASAP, and its out the door, hence no " filler suck up moisture and cause you problems".

Just to clear up a few things, I'm going to say that, yes, if etch primer is left out in the weather, it will rust. But that is because it is not meant to stand alone. It's meant to be covered with epoxy, or even better, urethane primer(along with urethane top coats). This provides the seal to keep out the elements. The etch provides the rust protection from within the panel and keeps rust to a minimum when the panel gets scratched. That being said, etch with urethane beats epoxy for rust prevention every time. All the paint mfgrs. will tell you that, backed up with testing.
One other point I'd like to make. All etch primers are not created equal. I know for a fact that Spies/Hecker 3255 etch primer can resist rust on bare metal for up to 6 months. I also know that Spies/Hecker 3688 etch will outperform all other etch primers in salt spray scratch testing.
I don't claim to know everthing, but I have been a professional bodyman,painter,and restorer for over 35 years. And more imortantly,I think,have worked closely with paint mfgr. reps to keep up with the latest technology backed up by testing.
Gordon VM
Restoration Motorsports http://communities.msn.com/Restorationphotos/shoebox.msnw

TC, I didnt mean for this to become a shouting match or game of wits, I didnt mean to come off as an a$$. Iam just stating what I have learned from my personal experiences, every simple task can be done several different ways, am just stating my way. Whether its the best or worst take it or leave it, am just trying to let others know of more then one way.

Iam not saying that etch primr is a miracle cure, its just a better product to fight rust then expoy. Its just that expoy was once thought the best for corrosion but it in my opinion it is now outdated like lacquer. The automotive refinish business is changing everyday, and believe it or not baseclear someday will too become outdated.

TC I dont come on there to match wits or to seem like a God like creature but come on there to help out others that dont have my experience. I value your opinion and others, the last thing I want to **** someone off enough that they feel like they dont deserve to post in a certain forum.

------------------
1970 chevelle
1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a buick baby
1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/sevt_chevelles

Please TC, don't leave over a disagreement as small as this. If I were told by DuPont themselves I would be sticking to my guns to! That is one of the things I preach here, FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES RECOMMENDATION! There was one thing that caught my eye in the email you received from DuPont. The line, "The Epoxy Prime-n-Seal
can go direct to properly treated metal." If you go to any tech sheet by DuPont, PPG, S-W what ever, you will see that "properly treated metal" IS any metal that has been "conditioned" with a metal condition as you are doing with your POR-15 product. OR an acid containing primer, and "etch" if you will.
So you see, EVERYONE is actually right on this one.
The email also makes perfectly clear another point that came up, applying filler OVER etch or conditioner is a NO-NO.

So to reiterate, Prime and seal SHOULD be over "properly treated" metal (conditioned with acid or an etch primer) and filler is fine over epoxy but NOT an etch or conditioner containing acid. I think that is what EVERYONE has been saying, right?

The disagreement on whether or not to apply filler over an epoxy primer is really just opinion at this point. Some manufactures have a recommendation for it, others don't. This is normal, manufactures like to cover their a$$e$. They certainly are not going to recommend you put some other brand of filler over their primer and then guarantee it! I don't blame them.
And of course Evercoat is not going to recommend that you put THEIR product over someone else's primer! They can't possibly cross their product tech info with EVERY primer on the market, so they say NONE. That is fair isn't it?

On whether or not an etch can protect from rust, the etch, like your metal conditioner works WITH other products to fight corrosion. It is NOT to be left unprotected just like you wouldn't leave bare metal that has been conditioned unprotected.
All etch primers are not to be treated equal. S-W E2G973 contains vinyl (PVC as I remember) and is the ULTIMATE in corrosion protection. PPG's DX1791 is similar (equal or better, I don't know) and does AMAZING stuff without any protection over it. Heck, I have a test going on in my back yard with a panel shot with an aerosol etch primer distributed my Winzer that actually has acid in it and is holding up out in the whether including rain, very well.

But when it comes right down to it, if you follow the directions of any manufactures product, it WILL perform as they say it will. If you want to apply filler over epoxy, follow the tech sheet, you'll get no argument here.

------------------
1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

Thank you MARTINSR:
Thats what I was trying to say.

T.C.

T.C. & ALL as stated you cannot go wrong by following procedures from manufacturer. most product failures are not the product. 40 years in industry have taught me that i am not a chemist. products are designed with some forgiveness, however do not ignore instructions. adhesion failures are usually caused by poor preparation, improper cleaning, improper use,or application of materials. the products of today are not compatable with 60's-80's materials. always start with clean base. we have incredible materials today that do allow some intermingling of fillers (poly & other)with primed/painted surfaces. some polys are recc. to go over painted surface. if i can comment on etch/epoxy corrosion question. these products are intended as undercoats, not topcoats, they are porous & can allow moisture intrusion to metal if exposed to elements for extended periods. note of caution, stay away from the newest,greatest,super products, until they have been in use for some time. research & development has a history of being held hostage to marketing, our industry has been used as test dummies!! (they call it field application) as long as i can remember.

This newbie is gonna be brave, and peep my head out of my foxhole. Y'all be gentle...

I'm a little confused as to where all of this leaves me -- a person of decent mechanical ability, no prior body or paint experience, and owner of a daily driven 71 Chevelle starting to show some rust. I want to get rid of the faded 1971 Chevelle Brown, and stop (and prevent) the rust.

Car Craft (*ahem*) said douse the thing with DP90. The Autobodystore.bbs (which I love) and this forum (which I also love) both point out that this may not be the best approach. For corrosion protection, I need an etch primer, followed by a urethane primer. Ideally, that would be followed with topcoat. But if my budget forbids it, urethane over the etch would be the best "leave-it-in-primer" option. And the Martin-Senour Tint/PRIME has some pretty colors, too -- including BLACK. But, I have some areas that need filler; which should only go over an epoxy primer, not an etch or urethane.

So...
1) What do I do in areas still covered in factory paint? Sand it all off, shoot an etch primer, then Tint/PRIME? Or can I just scuff and Tint/PRIME over the old paint?
2) What about areas that need some filler? Sand it to bare metal, etch prime, epoxy prime, fill, epoxy prime, then Tint/PRIME? (Yikes)

Thanks guys -- and remember, this is a daily driver -- my ride to and from work. I'm not in a position to keep it out of the weather for extended periods.

Cheers,
mark.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hd99fxst:

So...
1) What do I do in areas still covered in factory paint? Sand it all off, shoot an etch primer, then Tint/PRIME? Or can I just scuff and Tint/PRIME over the old paint?
2) What about areas that need some filler? Sand it to bare metal, etch prime, epoxy prime, fill, epoxy prime, then Tint/PRIME? (Yikes)

Thanks guys -- and remember, this is a daily driver -- my ride to and from work. I'm not in a position to keep it out of the weather for extended periods.

Cheers,
mark.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Mark,

I was really in the same position as you- especially budget wise. Judging from the widely varying responses regarding etch and epoxy, heres what I did. I will use the caveat "I'm not a pro" so take it for what its worth http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif!

In regards to #1)

If I was you, and I WAS in your position, I'd sand off the old paint, and start with a new base to work with. Keep in mind you can also do a piece at a time. After I stripped to metal, THEN I did my filling work as good as I could possibly get it. I just like the metal/filler/etch/Tint-PRime system better. I priced epoxy, and just cant see the point of using it when it is costs more than an etch, and adds "maybe" cost to the overall project. IF you do go NAPA, use the 15210 etch- it's $13.00 a quart, and easy to use. Its similar to another etch they have.

In regards to #2)

"bare metal, etch prime, epoxy prime, fill, epoxy prime, then Tint/PRIME? (Yikes)"

I wouldnt do this (again, see my caveat above http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif). I PREFER,

bare metal/filler/piranha putty(GREAT!)/Etch primer/Tint-Prime.

I've seen you post in my "street rod primer paint job " post so I think you know that MartinSr recommended to me the Tint Prime for the "leave it in primer a while route".

I just cant see putting an etch down and THEN an epoxy over that, but thats just me. I think if you want the "ultimate" in corrosion resistance, use the etch then epoxy. Personally, I think its money out the window...(see caveat above!! http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif)

I hope this helps you out, it seems to be working for me- Good Luck with your car!

JU87 the reason I use etch primer first then expoy when using the filler over primer method is because I dont like or recommend the use of an expoy based product over bare metal. I believe that etch primer is much better at fighting rust then expoy and of higher quailty thats why I use etch then expoy when doing a filler over expoy repair. To me cost is nothing if the repair lasts, that extra 70 or 80 bucks for etch primer is well worth the price, if I dont have do my car again in a few years cause I skipped out.

Not all the repairs that involve filler do I use the filler over primer method. I can count the number of times at work that I have done filler over primer on one hand. The only time I have done it that method is on a resto project and still not every piece is done that way. Iam still a believer in filler on ground metal then a dusting of etch primer then followed with a 2K urethane primer. Whats the deciding factor on whether I use filler on metal or filler over primer is how big of an area and how much filler is needed to make the panel straight.

I know of many guys that swear by the filler over primer no matter how much filler is needed. These guys produce nothing but top notch cars, one you will find mentioned in Rod and Custom all the time for having a top ten car of the year. His name is Roger Burman( the spelling might be wrong) of lake side rods in twin lakes iowa. He swears by that method. Only time will tell us if filler over primer is a great method or not, my first project using filler over primer has held together for almost four years now.

------------------
1970 chevelle
1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a buick baby
1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/sevt_chevelles

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sevt_chevelle:
JU87 the reason I use etch primer first then expoy when using the filler over primer method is because I dont like or recommend the use of an expoy based product over bare metal. Iam still a believer in filler on ground metal then a dusting of etch primer then followed with a 2K urethane primer.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

sevt_chevelle,

Very true about the "time will tell". I guess its all about preferences. I just think that its best to get the panel as straight as possible before priming- eventhough I'm just a hobbyist and not a pro. Since that's the case, I just prefer the bare metal then filler method, and then as you said, spraying an etch followed by a urethane primer/surfacer. It is also cheaper, since it effectively eliminates the epoxy primer from the equation- that's a consideration for me, because I have a tight budget to work with.

If you prefer the metal/filler method, it seems as if the epoxy primer really doesnt have much of use. It just takes a little longer to work the metal and to fill to get it as straight as you can, thats all. The extra effort in working the metal and filler over the bare metal is worth it when I am able to save myself a few bucks http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif!!

I think I've got it all straight, but...

Any special precautions in applying an etch primer over filler? I would think the aggressive primer might be bad for the putty? OK over plain plastic, and fiberglass too?

Thanks,
mark.

Mark,

Pick which etch you are going to use, and look up the PDS for it. For example, the PDS for the 15210 says its ok to spray it over "cured" body filler. I let my fill work cure for over 12 hours before I shoot the etch primer, and it works fine. I just kind of ease off the gun a tad when hitting a filled area. IT is primed, though not quite as much as the rest of the areas. It is really important to follow the PDS- I follow them to a tee- they also give a lot of insight as to what primers you need to use for different sorts of situations.