This was posted on one of the other boards I visit.. this is suposibly directly from one of the higher ups with GM that frequents a couple boards I visit... mainly in rebutle to all the bull**** many believe.


OK, kids........

Lately, the press (and others) have had a field day bashing GM. Quite frankly, we’ve been accused of everything short of the Lindberg baby kidnapping. (that will be next week)

As you know, I visit a lot of enthusiast sites. Some are friendly; some are downright rude and crude. Some on various sites make statements that people tend to agree with…..but invariably, they don’t have their facts straight.

If you’re not interested in reading the rest of this, that’s quite all right. But I want to set the record straight on a number of issues.


So..sit back, grab a beverage, and here goes:

I'll address each subject with an individual post..........

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STATEMENT: “GM QUALITY SUCKS!”

FACTS:

QUALITY and DEPENDABILITY:

Strategic Vision 2004 Quality Study……..GM and Nissan tied for First.

2004 J.D. Power Award ……Vehicle Dependability Study (bought new – still own 3 years)

GM was number 4 in the industry….highest domestic at 264 problems per hundred……Toyota was at 207, Honda at 210, Porsche at 240.
But…GM was better than these ‘select’ companies

BMW – 264
Nissan – 271
Ford – 275
D Chry – 302
VW -- 366
Hyundai – 375

Consumer Reports:

In 2000, only 11% of our vehicles were rated average or above…….in 2004, it’s 65%.


PLANT AWARD WINNERS;

Number one plant in North America: Oshawa 2 – Buick LaCrosse score of 85
Number two plant in North America: Oshawa 1 – Impala/Monte Carlo score of 89
Number three plant in North America: Hamtramck – DeVille/LeSabre score of 90

The score is based on Problems per 100 vehicles……how does this compare?

Honda – Marysville, OH - score of 94
Toyota – Georgetown KY scorer of 99
Lansing Grand River (STS/CTS) score of 99
Bowling Green, KY (Corvette/XLR) score of 100
Fairfax KS (Malibu and Malibu MAXX) score of 101





Moving on……………
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STATEMENT: “GM DEALERS SUCK…THEIR SALES DEPARTMENTS SUCK AND SO DO THEIR SERVICE DEPARTMENTS!”

………..not so fast……………


Satisfaction with Sales Experience:

GM finished 2nd in overall sales satisfaction -- GM is highest ranked multi-divisional manufacturer…and ALL Divisions scored above Industry average. ALL GM Divisions ranked higher than Toyota or Honda.

Satisfaction with Service Experience:

Buick and Cadillac ranked in top 5 and outperformed LEXUS, HONDA, TOYOTA and NISSAN.

All GM Divisions scored above Industry Average and scored above NISSAN, TOYOTA, CHRYSLER AND VW…..they all scored BELOW Industry Average.

SO MUCH FOR GM DEALERSHIPS BEING ‘THE WORST’ AS CLAIMED BY MANY.
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STATEMENT: “OH YEAH? WELL MY TOYOTA/HONDA/BMW/MERCEDES IS BUILT HERE IN THE UNITED STATES!”


82% parts in the average GM car or truck are domestic content
At Honda, it’s 49%
At Toyota, it’s 41%
Nissan? 38%
BMW? 11%

(by the way……go look at what the ‘transplants’ pay in taxes….real estate, school, state and federal……you might be surprised……if you’re a teacher and you’re complaining about budgets in you’re driving a Toyota or Honda, SHUT UP!)

GM/Ford/and DCX provide 23.4 jobs per 100 vehicles sold in the United States

The Japanese competitors? 13.3 jobs per 100 vehicles sold in the United States

GM’s capital investment in the United States from 1999 thru 2003 was $20Billion. Toyota’s capital investment from 1980 thru 2003 was $10.7Billion. Nissan’s? 2.8Billion from 1980 thru 2003…Honda? $5.6Billion – ’80 thru ’03.

GM’s contribution to the U.S. Gross National Product (GNP) is 4 times that of Toyota

Every Day, over 1 million North Americans earn their living by helping GM build and sell cars in North America. – Every month, 457,000 retirees and their spouses count on GM for pension checks. More than 1.1 Million people receive health care benefits from GM. A one-point drop in GM market share results in over 18,000 jobs in the United States.

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STATEMENT: “GM FUEL ECONOMY SUCKS!”

GM has more car and truck segment fuel economy leaders than ANY manufacturer…a list is on www.gm.com

GM builds 19 car models that get 30mpg or better…..VW builds 14, DCX builds 13, TOYOTA with 12 and Ford with 11.

GM’s West Coast Hybrid Busses save more fuel than ALL Priuses sold in a year.

GM 4WD full size Utilities have the highest fuel economy in the industry

GM V8 pickups have the highest combined fuel economy in the industry

Those of you who have an LS1/LS6/LS2 engine know that incredible performance and fuel economy come out of our small block V8s……..

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STATEMENT: THE PONTIAC G6 AND BUICK LACROSSE ARE JOKES….THEY DON’T SELL AND THEIR QUALITY SUCKS!” “THE COLORADO AND CANYON SUCK…NO ONE WANTS EM!” “THE COBALT IS NOTHING BUT A WARMED OVER CAVALIER AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT……IT’LL NEVER SELL”

G6 was the highest quality midsize vehicle in the 10th annual Strategic Vision Quality Study

44% of G6 sales are CONQUEST sales as of April

G6 outsold both the Ford 500 and Mercury Montego combined in April

G6 outsold Grand Am in April (versus 2004)

LaCrosse outsold Century and Regal combined by 7.4% versus 2004

Colorado and Canyon are leading their segment.

43% of Colorado/Canyon sales are CONQUEST sales

Cobalt Sedan sales set to outtrack Cavalier sales by 72K units by year end

Cobalt in April: outsold all of Mitsubishi, all of VW, all of Scion, all of Mazda, Mustang, Focus, and 300.

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If you've made it this far......thank you for reading.

There are many other things I need to get off my chest......but I really don't want to drive you crazier than I already have.

Let me just finish with some thoughts:

>Despite what you are reading in the papers......GM has a bright future. I do not want to downplay the problems in which we find ourselves......but remember that the way to turn this company around is PRODUCT!

>We are in the midst of the largest launch of new products this company.....or the world, for that matter....has ever seen.

>Fuel economy will continue to improve......

>Here's some startling info: we get upset at the price of new vehicles and the price of gasoline: well.....in a recent study of Consumer Items as a percent of increase between 1982 and 2005 (source: U.S. Bureau of Labor statistics) take a look at what has increased and by how much:

>New vehicles 38.8%
>Personal care products 53.1%
>Gasoline 61.6%
>Beer/Ale/Malt Beverages at home 76.3%
>Meats 86.4%
>Food away from home 90.8%
>ALL ITEMS 91.3%
>Fish and Seafood 99.4%
>Airline fares 117.7%
>College and tuition costs 359.6%

so........funny, we complain about gas......but I haven't heard a lot about deodorant or beer! (yes, I realize you don't buy 20 gallons of deodorant a week......) but interesting facts none-the-less.

One last thought:

There IS a V8/RWD/affordable performance coupe coming from Chevy. That's all I'll say about that.




aaron

So, who was this mystery person?

i dunno. it was posted on one of the boards i read. and i figured i would post it. some of that stuff is pretty interesting.


aaron

The guy has a point. We thrash GM HARD with some regularity here, while mentioning that XYZ sells some crappy moldings is taboo. Believe me, the GM legal department is not a bunch that you want mad at you. We're a GM oriented site, most of us probably own other GM cars as well, so we hear all the horror stories. I'll bet on a Mustang site, there are plenty of bad stories about Ford trucks and Crown Vics, just because thats what else they drive.
Think about it.

heck guys i honestly love my GM cars - past and present - they have never failed me where as my toyota and my honda both left me stranded plenty of times.

and now shopping for a new car i am looking again at the GM lines. honestly i dont like GM's new styling i think all their cars are weird looking except the G6 for some reason i like that car.

personally, i think the upper brass at GM are playing up the financial woes so they can go to congress and get them to bail them out by taking over all the pensions and what not.
kind of like the airlines are trying to do now- so if the airlines get turned down, i think we will see GM change their tune pretty fast about their financial situation.
but if the airlines get bailed out, look for GM execs to be up on the hill begging for money and playing up the way the other car makers from other countries don't have to pay for such things because the government does it for them.

Well, only GM on my driveway. No complaints with their service techs or their parts guys. Maybe they just love me.

There IS a V8/RWD/affordable performance coupe coming from Chevy.

Key word AFFORDABLE.
I'm ordering a new truck at the end of the month and its NOT a GM.
1 bad apple may not ruin a whole bunch, but 1 poor leader of a Major corporation can sure ruin it

Maybe because I work and fix Pontiacs/Buicks/GMC's/Other GM's day in and day out, Thats why I think there crappy. But come to look at it, They are on top, and there are just as many Fords/Dodges/Hondas/Toyotas/ECT. in their service shops, and maybe thier Tech's think they're cars/trucks suck too.

I own 2 GM products, they are both 30+ years old, and so far have held up better than this Pile of $h*t Dodge Intrepid I drive to work everyday, and its only 10 yrs old. just some food for thought... buy a GM.

I grew up in a GM family. I was raised thinking that anything other than GM wasn't worth owning. That being said, I grew up working on all GM products. During high school '84-'88, my brother and I between us owned a total of 17 GM cars, Nova's, Camaro's, and Chevelles of course. There is nothing better than a GM muscle car. The parts are cheaper, readily available, and the body styling had everything else beat, bar none.

However, in the late 80's to early 90's we started realizing that the reliablity of other manufacturers, namely japenese were far superior. ( remember GM's attempt at aluminum block vegas) This being said, the japenese and numerous european manufacturers raised the curve by which all other cars were judged. The american owned companies tried to keep up and did not do a very good job of it.

In the years leading up to the early 2000's all the new models coming out looked the same, all american companies were basically following the standards that european and japanese cars reached in performance,styling and reliability. I think that the greatest thing that happened to the U.S. car market is the influx of the "retro" car. Starting with chrysler bringing back some of the old "roadster" styled vehicles. Then following in second is Chevrolet bringing back the pickup a couple years ago. Now in the past year or so, Ford has brought back the styling of the late 60's mustang. I think it is great for them to finally figure out that they dont have to match the latest european or japanese styling. U.S. car manufacturers set many standards when they were in their prime, now they are bringing back those standards and capitalizing on the muscle car and retro fascination. In close I will state that for a long time, yes foreign cars have been more reliable, and have had better safety standards. But, we as car buyers want more, we want the quality and looks that we grew up with, we are getting that now! I'm a GM owner from birth, I will die in my chevelle or at least near it. U.S. car companies are on an upswing and we are going to reap the benefits of that.

Although, I am sure the guy who works for GM has his facts, they are biased.
Consumer perspective is in the belief that japanese cars are more reliable, whether that is from propoganda or from fact, it still remains the belief.

At this point in time almost all of us are very aware that the media likes nothing better than to jump on the bandwagon - whatever is a "hot" topic they want to be right in the thick of it. Remembering a few of the boo-boos that the media have made when rushing to print the "latest" story, and that they definitely all feed on each other, would it not be hard for us to see that the death of GM is the kind of story that the media would follow without really checking the facts?

The mystery man is quoting a lot of simple facts that are easily found in industry publications like Automotive News.

What is not well covered in the news is that the Japanese government pays for the continuing healthcare of Toyota's Japan retirees. Contrast this with GM which pays for their 457,000 GM retirees/spouses. Of the annual $5.6 Billion (and climbing) GM is paying for the Healthcare of ~ 1.1 million employees retirees and families, somewhere in the low 60% of those dollars go toward just the retirees healthcare (its hell to grow old, we need the most healthcare in our later years). As a profound structural difference multiplied year after year, imagine if instead GM was able to spend that money on product development, manufacturing ability, and marketing? GM will never be able to do that under current rules. Changes are coming one way or the other because we can either continue to let the domestic industry wither while having to operate under a different set of rules than Toyota, or we find some way to assure a more level business playing field.

Another interesting fact: year after year who gets the most automotive patents? - yes, its GM. Instead of spending more money to fully develop all these new ideas, too bad that GM has to spend billions of dollars a year on healthcare that Toyota gets to spend on product, manufacturing, and marketing.

As much as Toyota and others like to brag about and market the fact that they have built some assembly plants in the U.S., not much is made about all the concessions that they were given in exchange for choosing their assembly plant locations. I too laugh at the irony of all the teachers and unionistas who drive Toyotas, the poor fools do not realize that their "smart" car purchase was from a company that does not support their goals.

There will be no easy way to address the fundemental structural differences of GM vs. Toyota, but we have finally reached a point where something must change. It does not matter if you like GM or its current product - is there any good reason why we should keep GM with one arm tied behind its back while doing battle with a fully armed Toyota? How to make a change that is equitable to GM and all of GM's employees is a tuffy - maybe we can change the rules to require all companies doing business in the U.S. to proportionally pay into the system instead of just GM paying: for example, if a company sells 20% of the cars and trucks sold in the U.S., then it would pay 20% of the healthcare of the U.S. retirees of the automobile manufacturers. I dunno, it will be difficult to properly address this issue without hurting somebody. It does deserve our attention - unless you buy into the idea that manufacturing isn't very important. Perhaps a decent solution will elude us, as GM continues to cut off appendages to survive, until we are all driving a Chery (a Chinese auto brand).

Thomas

Sounds like everything is peachy at GM. Wonder what all the hype is about and i wonder why this mystery man felt the need to explain and set all of us kids straight on a public forum.

i wonder why this mystery man felt the need to explain and set all of us kids straight on a public forum.

Probably because he is proud of what he does for a living, and the company he works for. If someone came on here bashing my company, I'd defend it too.

So, who was this mystery person?

It was Scott Settlemeir (SP?). I don't know his current title, but he was the Camaro Brand Manager for a number of years. He was instrumental in keeping the Camaro in production as long as it was. Without him, it likely would have been killed much earlier.

Randy

All the surveys and facts don't change the fact that I can go to any Chevrolet dealer and look around and not find one model I would buy as a performance car except the Vette which I can't afford. In a nut shell they have shut out us car loving baby boomers in favor of statistics showing the younger generation should be the target group. Ford pretty much proved the performance romance with cars is still alive with their 2005 Mustang. Ford can't build em fast enough. In fact they have ramped up production trying to fill the orders. Wake up GM!!!
Mark

As a GM dealership employee, I hear a lot of the same bad stuff about GM. It's nice to see someone who took the time to convey the correct facts.

I will say, every brand can "spin" the facts similarily if they want. Right now, ford is advertising that they have the strongest frame because it is a full-boxed design. They do not support it with any tests, or make note that it need support only thier lighter weight vehicles. GM's hydro-form frames are just as strong, but Ford is using the public's assumptions to thier advantage. They see a C-shaped frame vs a boxed and assume it isn't as strong. The GM trucks and the ford trucks are so close when comapring abilities in the real world, they have to nit-pick at each other to try to gain an advantage.

Also, I hope GM does not try to get the government involved to assist them in the pension/healthcare problems it has. It is bad that they brought this on themselves via contracts, but last I remember, the government should be staying out of business just like business should be staying out of government. If anyone outside of MN follows the Northwest Airlines debacle, you could see. Northwest was bailed out by the government, makes a profit for several years (after cutting HUGE amounts of their workforce), and now is asking for more help.???!

my mini-rant is over. Thank you

Ford can't build em fast enough. In fact they have ramped up production trying to fill the orders.

hmmm... you'd think they'd just ship the ones that have been sitting on the lot around here to the dealerships that can't keep up. I've only seen 3 on the road, so far, (all V6 models) but the same ones have been on all the local lots for at least a couple months.

RWD cars don't sell well in MN, but I don't know what it's like in the rest of the U.S. Not too many people want to spend 30k for a car they drive 6mo/yr (which is why I don't have a new GTO :( )

I think the "mystery poster", whomever he/she is, is right on the money. I have some knowledge in this area myself & what is posted as facts are indeed true & they are impressive & something for GM to be proud of. However, I also believe that Mark 502's comment is dead on the mark.

GM has made HUGE improvements in Quality, Dependability, Customer Satisfaction, Hybrids, etc. That's fine and dandy - good job - but without "gotta have" cars and trucks, it's all beside the point. Until GM makes cars that have exterior design and styling that makes mouths water, all of the quality/dependability/etc. doesn't mean diddly squat - product appeal sells cars, dependability and reliability is important AFTER that and is what keeps those customers loyal to GM. GM has good power train, but the exterior styling on most of the cars is too blah, bland and boring. Unfortunately, instead of fixing the root cause of the problem, GM mgmt decides to do stupid things like slap SS badges on mundane cars in hopes is makes them more sexy. Anyways, exterior styling on GM trucks is much better than their cars, but there's definitely room for improvement there too.

Mark: I too like the new "old" Mustang, but I caution everyone to wait and see in 2-3 years if Ford is still selling as many as they are today. They're hot now because they're new.... but just look at what happenned to the Ford Thunderbird after a year or so. Unfortunately, us "performance cars guys" are a pretty small percentage in the grand scheme of all car buyers/segments.

Consumer perspective is in the belief that japanese cars are more reliable, whether that is from propoganda or from fact, it still remains the belief.

Exactly... Toyato or Honda might not actually be more reliable now, but the public perception usually leans that way because of the past performance... But this does affect "Resale" value, which is often an important part of such a major purchase...

I know my wife wanted either a Toyota or Hondo when we bought our minivan... Mainly for the "reputation"...

Myself, I realize that ALL car companies have to put out cars with quality, or else they will go under... That said, when looking for a new smaller pickup, I looked at all, I look at a combo of factors: room/comfort and price being the major factors for me...

My wife bought a Nissan Sentra before we got married ....... I replaced the engine for our first anniversary . As soon as she wasn't upside down it became an IMPALA .

I have had no problems with our Impala , I just change the oil , filters , and add gas !!

Gordo: what difference does it make what lies down the road for Mustang? They are getting people in the dealership to sell them a product because of the Mustang. Even if they drive out with a Ford 500 they sold another car. Without the bling you can't attract customers. As far as Minnesota not selling Mustangs I don't know why but out west they have a hard time keeping them in stock. Chevrolets daily supply average for the nation as of last month sat at 100 days. That means it will take over 3 months to clear the inventory for newer models. Dealers are choking on the product and paying huge flooring costs for lack luster products. Ya gotta get em in the dealership first!!
Mark

I have a hard time believing that the Corvette isn't bringing in potential customers who just want to check it out. :confused:

Walk up to a new Vette around here and they look at you cross-eyed and don't even consider wanting to climb inside one for a "test your ass in the seat" look see.

He can quote the surveys as long as he'd like, but I'm 0 for 2 on initial quality.

My wife's 2003 Tahoe - Electrical issues from day one- thanks to a very persistent service tech two crossed wires were identified in a harness after 5+ service visits, numerous power seat modules, one radio, one dead dash cluster and 20,000 miles. Other than that, I loved the truck, so I bought a 2004 1500 Crew Cab. At 3000 miles the rearend began to whine. Three ring and pinions, two housings, and 4 service visits it seems to be fixed.

I won't claim to be a brand specific guy, other than domestic if possible, but I drove F150's for the previous 11 years, my wife has driven Mazdas for the last 12 years and other than a steering box on one of the Fords, we have had 0 issues that weren't wear related.

Maybe I've just had bad luck, but I'm scared to own these outside of warranty.

Jim

you know? i went to chevy and sat in the vette, looked around and couldn't find anything that i really wanted (besides the vette), went to pontiac, drove the g.t.o., cool ride, but a little pricey and still not my preference in styling. went to dodge, loved the magnum and 300 c, but still a little more $ than i wanted to spend. didn't want a buick, asian, or eurotrash ride. went to ford, drove the g.t. and bought it. for the cash, it's hard to beat. if i had several young kids, it would have been the 300 c or magnum. but i was looking for a performance car, without spending big $. even if mustangs sales fall off, i still have a great little ride, with plenty of punch. i think for those who don't like the style of the mustang, the charger will probably draw them, and according to an article i read last week, lusk just killed (in march) any hope for a camaro (after all "we have the monte carlo"), i've personally haven't had issues with any "new" car i've bought in the last 15 years, and that even takes the cheapies i bought, into account (mazda;s, hyndai's, honda's, etc.) i guess i've been lucky. i'm at a point in life where i buy what i like, and right now the g.t. is plenty of fun. rubber in three gears, great interior, 20+ m.p.g. hwy (supposed to get 27, but my foot, is a little heavy) and the best part, well under $30k ($27,400 fairly loaded). so i made the wife happy with a new car, and i get to do smokin burnouts, i hope the charger comes with a 5 or 6 speed at some point. i'd hate to have a hemi, without the option of a stick, and by the way, i've had a few of the chrysler 3.5 cars, and they all ran great.

The mystery poster is Scott Settlemire. The original post with his name is at www.yenko.net

Well GM, German and Japanese in my driveway, no complaints

Actually, original post is here:

http://chirpthird.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2391

Gordo: what difference does it make what lies down the road for Mustang?


I agree in principle, but you have to keep in mind the upfront sunk cost associated with building/releasing a new model (new mustang or any other model). You're easily talking 10's of Millions of dollars to design, engineer, test, tool, etc. a new model. That cost is incurred all upfront & is a fixed cost reguardless if you sell 1 or 10,000,000 after it's in production. Now, put that in the perspective of the Camaro/Firebird in 2003 when GM was making, maybe, $200-$300 per car sold. You have to sell a TON of units @ $200 profit/ea. just to recoup your initial outlay.

My point is that I'm sure Ford lost their shorts on the Thunderbird. Yea, it was cool. Yea, it probably brought some extra people into the showroom. Yea, it sold well the first year... but it died after that. Like I said, from a business perspective, I'm sure Ford lost a lot of money on it. The Mustang is a much safer bet since it's been in production for years and the annual sales numbers are easy to project. Also, no competiton from GM Camaro/Firebird. All I'm saying is the new Mustang is hot right now, which is great, but sales will cool to normal levels in a year.

As far as doing just to bring people into the showroom, yea - I agree, but just look at 1BLACKHARLEY's post. He went in to look at a 'vette and GTO and bought a Mustang.

I'd absolutely love for GM to bring back the Chevelle - mid sized coupe that seats 5 comfortably, classic exterior styling, RWD, LS7 500 HP, 6 speed, etc... but it needs to sustainable (desirable for several years and profitable to produce).. not just a 'fad' car like the Thumderbird that was cool for a year, but overall a bad story in the end. Most of all, if they do bring back a Camaro, Firebird, Chevelle, etc... they need to do it right - or don't do it at all.

College and tuition costs 359.6%

Funny you should mention this b/c UMC is buying/partnering with as many schools as they can so that they can monopolize the rates!!

They are trying to get Maryville up in the northwest corner of our state and it came out that prices would go up say $400/year or some such high number??

That AND they now own/control our Teaching Medical Center, the Cancer Hospital and Regional Hospital that had a private bid for like $13,000,000 and they got the bid for it at say something like $21,000,000!!

They said even at the almost double cost that it was a good buy even with at that time a poor 34 percent bed fill rate!!

Go figure!!

The public sector is buying the private sector with our own hard earned tax dollars AND here in Columbia, it it a business straegy!!

You build something, put your own poor-a--ed business in it that doesn't do good, then a couple of years sell your building for an inflated amount to either the City, County or State!!

PUBLIC owned Buildings are all over town AND not one/darn few makes a profit!!!

Bad, Bad, bad!!!

pdq67

I agree in principle, but you have to keep in mind the upfront sunk cost associated with building/releasing a new model (new mustang or any other model). You're easily talking 10's of Millions of dollars to design, engineer, test, tool, etc. a new model. That cost is incurred all upfront & is a fixed cost reguardless if you sell 1 or 10,000,000 after it's in production. Now, put that in the perspective of the Camaro/Firebird in 2003 when GM was making, maybe, $200-$300 per car sold. You have to sell a TON of units @ $200 profit/ea. just to recoup your initial outlay.

My point is that I'm sure Ford lost their shorts on the Thunderbird. Yea, it was cool. Yea, it probably brought some extra people into the showroom. Yea, it sold well the first year... but it died after that. Like I said, from a business perspective, I'm sure Ford lost a lot of money on it. The Mustang is a much safer bet since it's been in production for years and the annual sales numbers are easy to project. Also, no competiton from GM Camaro/Firebird. All I'm saying is the new Mustang is hot right now, which is great, but sales will cool to normal levels in a year.

As far as doing just to bring people into the showroom, yea - I agree, but just look at 1BLACKHARLEY's post. He went in to look at a 'vette and GTO and bought a Mustang.

I'd absolutely love for GM to bring back the Chevelle - mid sized coupe that seats 5 comfortably, classic exterior styling, RWD, LS7 500 HP, 6 speed, etc... but it needs to sustainable (desirable for several years and profitable to produce).. not just a 'fad' car like the Thumderbird that was cool for a year, but overall a bad story in the end. Most of all, if they do bring back a Camaro, Firebird, Chevelle, etc... they need to do it right - or don't do it at all.

yep. picked up a phr last night and the charger is going to be in most police and h.p. fleets very soon with the 340 h.p. hemi, ford is making an additional 80% more mustangs than last year. g.m. is coming out with a 4 door mailbu ss. who's doing thier homework and who is just hangin badges? dodge is building srt jeeps, ford is making a g.t. 500, chevy has the cobalt. i've never had a problem with g.m. i just think like ford and mopar have in the past, that they are just behind in style (except the vette). every car maker has a point where they are a little behind, right now it's g.m. in march when lusk killed the 07 camaro, the shareholders should have canned his ass. i understand the legacy problem, but putting out boring cars is not going to solve anything. to me, right now, the only g.m. division that's moving forward is cadillac, but cars in the $50k+ range are not going to solve g.m.'s problems.

It doesn't change the fact that most of their vehicles will not win any points for styling or looks. I also don't buy his quality statistics. It sounds like something that was spun out of the public relations department. They're still having a hard time building a reliable automatic overdrive transmission. Fit and trim is subpar, and the reliability of their electrical and electronics systems is average.

This guy is an apologist. He would probably say that the Aztec was a superior vehicle with award winning styling and that the public just wasn't sophisticated enough to understand this.

Put THIS (http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93818) in your pipe and smoke it :)

Put THIS (http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93818) in your pipe and smoke it :)

what are we smoking? i think the general consensus is, we all dig the new vette and the one on the horizon. what we want from g.m. is an affordable muscle car. plain and simple. few of us have 65k+ tax, liscense, destination, dealer mark-up, etc. which puts the car well over 70K. g.m. refused to see that s.u.v.'s were flooding the market and that other makers were tweaking thier line up to capture the growing older population that after raising thier kids, want a muscle car. ford is going to sell 192,000 mustangs this year. dodge is not only selling muscle, but some of it's product that accommidates a family, and hauls ass. the new ss trucks coming out are a step in the right direction, but the ss cobalt, ss malibu, ss ssr, are pathetic. you know, i could eat a lot of crow, if some of these cars, blow up and actually sell. but i really don't see g.m. selling 200,000 malibu's a year in it's current form.

in march when lusk killed the 07 camaro, the shareholders should have canned his ass.
Well, I think what was cancelled was the NA Zeta premium RWD cars(I think the Aussies still get a Zeta). I would hope that a Camaro replacement would not be considered a "premium" car. To me, that implies a high cost. Scott has said: "There IS a V8/RWD/affordable performance coupe coming from Chevy. That's all I'll say about that." That is encouraging.

The Zeta program is indeed what was cancelled. Some just say postponed. Lutz says replaced with "Zeta Lite" since the proposed Zeta platform was shaping up to be too expensive for the line of cars they were planning. Makes sense if true - no one wants a $40k+ Camaro - but, no idea how valid or true.

Oh,,,,,,quality is par and service is ok too.........well, I think that will make me buy an lack luster ugly car. There is far too many better looking, and more comfortable cars that I would rather own, that are in the same price catagories as all of GM's boring vehicles.
I own a 2003 silverado, and numerous old Chevys but there is not a "practical daily driver" vehicle in GM's fleet that I would buy right now.