My father has been collecting parts to do sheetmetal replacement. Instead of buying a welder (which I'm sure we'll end up getting eventually http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif ) he purchased a kit from Eastwood to 'glue' panels to the car. Is this a good method for a novice to try?

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1969 Caprice 4400LBS!!
454/M-20
12-bolt 4.10 Posi
13.45 @ 105
323HP @ 5200RPM
382lb-ft @ 3300RPM at the wheels!
Andy and Nick's Muscle Car Half-way House (http://www.public.iastate.edu/~amcarthu)

I'm sure you will get a variety of opinions on this subject. IMHO, glueing panels instead of welding is not something a novice should try. In fact, I don't recommend it PERIOD. I've seen to many of those glued panels come loose. Ah, but what do I know...the last shop I managed only did collision repair on a little over 200 cars a month.
I've seen all the available bonding products, demonstrations and the results. I haven't seen anything that beats a MIG welder.

I'd agree with vettefella, weld them on. I've used some of the Duramix products for panel adhesion, and yes it works, but there is more room for error. Also,in my opinion more work. If you intend on buying a welder, just do it. In my shop everything is welded. I'm not saying that an epoxy system isn't viable, there are many shops/professionals that use it. I'd feel that for a novice, welding would be a better choice. It gives you the opportunity to fit everything properly prior to sticking it to the car If your planning on doing a lot of bodywork a welder will pay for itself many times over.
Just my biased .02, take it for what you will, and good luck http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif


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'68 SS-396 (still workin' on it)
"Children in the back of the car can cause accidents,
accidents in the back of the car can cause children"
-2 Below Custom Automotive
Fbks, AK.

weld it!
the glue will probably flex. and where ever there is a seam the flexing will cause the paint to crack, then rust takes over.

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1970 Chevelle 454 Wagons haul A$$ in style! "The Chopped Suburban". to see some goto
www.EINSTYN.com (http://www.EINSTYN.com) FO_FDYFO = four-fifty four! TC#1460, VCEA#2

Guess I'll make sure the epoxy is used for his Porsche and not my 'velle. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/wink.gif Thanks for the opinions.

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1969 Caprice 4400LBS!!
454/M-20
12-bolt 4.10 Posi
13.45 @ 105
323HP @ 5200RPM
382lb-ft @ 3300RPM at the wheels!
Andy and Nick's Muscle Car Half-way House (http://www.public.iastate.edu/~amcarthu)

Ive used both 3M and Duramix glue, but prefer the 3M glue. Never used the stuff from eastwood but I would stick with a name brand glue. Ive yet to see a glued on panel let loose. The thing that really impressed me on the glue was this test that the 3M rep did with the glued on panel and welded panel. He glued two panels together and another set just like it but welded them. Then he hooked them up to our frame machine and started pulling on the ends of the panels. The glued on panel withheld longer the welded panel.

Not saying that every panelshould be glued on but it has its place when replacing panels. Like when replacing a quarter panel I would glue the quarter to wheel well and trunk exts and along the rear window. Everywhere else I would weld the quarter on, at the roof seem at the door jam and around the rear bumper area.

The nice thing about the glue is that it also acts like a sealer, it covers the bare metal to help prevent rust from forming. As where if you welded the two pieces together moisture can work its way through inbetween the two pieces and start to rust.

As long as your seem to be bonded is clean and free of paint I dont see any problems that can occur.

I have seen faint lines in the paint where the patch panels were glued. WELD THE PATCH PANELS SOLID

do you think the glue is a good idea if i were to use it for positioning and brought it to a body shop to finish? I don't know how to weld yet, would save me lots of dough. I can do all the fitting, cutting and placement and they can finish it up?

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1970 chevelle
406 - TH-350 - soon to be 411's
engine (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/engine.jpg)
Interior (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/interior.jpg)

"I didn't get pulled over for going over the speed limit, i got pulled over for getting there faster than anyone else"

do you think the glue is a good idea if i were to use it for positioning and brought it to a body shop to finish? I don't know how to weld yet, would save me lots of dough. I can do all the fitting, cutting and placement and they can finish it up?

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1970 chevelle
406 - TH-350 - soon to be 411's
engine (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/engine.jpg)
Interior (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/interior.jpg)

"I didn't get pulled over for going over the speed limit, i got pulled over for getting there faster than anyone else"

Most shops that take pride in their work AND warranty it, probably won't take a job that has been partially done. Except for removal of bumpers, trim etc., the shop will probably charge the same amount for a partially completed job as they would if you hadn't touched it. In most cases, they will re-do the work you've already done.

I've been bitten by that dog in the distant past. The owner does part of the work, the shop completes it and a few months later something goes wrong. The owner says to all who will listen.."those $#@&% people at so-and-so shop did that." It didn't take me long to learn to not jeopardize my reputation so the owner could save a few bucks or be able to brag about how much of the body work he/she did themselves.

I've been working part time at a buddies body shop. I've been doing alot of restoration work including panel replacement, fabrication and welding.

We have been using the panel adhesive from time-to-time.

There are two down sides of welding...first is rust. Any time you weld two pieces of metal together, the natural welding process causes rust to form where you welded. I have a car trailer that was not prepped properly and everywhere there's a weld bead, the rust formed and came out through the paint. Also, any slight gaps between panels will sweat or get condensation between them and rust will eventually start back up...even if both sides are seam sealed.

Second, welding takes alot longer to perform...you have to carefully weld, then spend twice as much time carefully grinding and finishing the welds before body work can be started. The panel adhesive grinds just like body filler and is easily shaped. Oh yea, and then there's the warpage factor with welding...especially if you rush the welding or aren't careful.

Panel adhesive, like mentioned above will seal any voids and acts like a natural sealer preventing rust. We have yet to see a car with a panel failure from using panel adhesive. We did some distructive testing and found the glue joint to be stronger than the metal itself. If you glue something crooked, expect to make the new patch larger than the old one because your can't pry them apart.

The only problem I've seen with the adhesive is it will weaken if exposed to high heat (i.e. welding real close to a glue seam).

We stand behind all our work and will not use a process that we know could possibly come back for repair or even be dangerous to the car or passengers.

The most important fact to having glue panels hold well is to grind any dirt/paint/coating off where the glue will be and to have at least 3/8" to 1/2" of panel overlap for enough surface area for strength. If the one flange where your going to glue is pitted from past rust, the glue will not hold IMO (near impossible to clean all the pits out unless you snadblast, even then there's the chance the rust will break the bond loose down the road)...must be two clean surfaces.

We were gonna try to glue a pair of full Goodmatk quarters on, but there was just no way to get all the areas to fit in the persective places before the glue ran out or began to set up without making a huge mess.

BTW, the panel adhesive professional body shops use is available in slow, medium, and fast set.

I actually prefer to weld as it give me more and more practice and that simply makes me that much better of a welder http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif ...but there are jobs where the adhesive just makes sense, saves time, and gets the job out the door that much quicker without sacrificing the quality or integrity of the final product.

I've not seen it myself yet, but I'm told that a few car manufacturers are using the panel adhesive to assemble new cars from the factory now (not the whole body, but certain panels).

I probably wouldn't recommend the panel adhesive for a novice though.

[This message has been edited by Todd Geisler (edited 01-09-2002).]

Thanks for the insight guys I appreciate it. Todd long time no hear good to see your ok…

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1970 chevelle
406 - TH-350 - soon to be 411's
engine (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/engine.jpg)
Interior (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/interior.jpg)

"I didn't get pulled over for going over the speed limit, i got pulled over for getting there faster than anyone else"

LTLCRZY427, what type of panel replacement you talking here? Like I mentioned before glued on panels has it place in repair. I wouldnt fully glue any panel on, no matter what it is, it needs to be welded somewhere. Ive done many cab corners and rockers for chevy trucks, and I use glue and weld each piece. On the rockers I glue that bottom seem, and weld it on the top where it goes to the floor, also weld it in the front and back. The cab corners I only glue the top where it wraps around, and weld where it goes into the door jam and down that seem in the back.

The best place I have found the glue to work is when installing door skins, there is one piece that I dont need to weld. It works the best because when installing door skins you use a rubber dolly and a special hammer, and pound that flange around the frame of the door. And because of the hammering the dolly and door skin bounce up and down on the frame causing waves, which in return requires bondo to be applied to fix the ripples.

But if you use glue and let it cure and come back later and pound the flange around, the glue forms a tight bond between the skin and the frame. That bond keeps the skin from bouncing around and requires no mud to fix the ripples that other wise would have happened if you didnt glue the skin on.

If you where to replace a quarter panel I would glue it on these locations, the wheel well, the trunk exts and along the seem in the back window. I would weld it along the roof seem, door jam and the rear bumper area.

Like Todd mentioned heat is about its only enemy. The glue manufactures all state that you need to stay around three inches away from the glue when welding, but if you must do the welding do it while the glue is still fresh not cured.

The car makers are starting to use glue on some of its panels. I did a pair of door skins for a 2000 or 01 dodge stratus and it was fully glued on not a weld on that skin expect where the glass weatherstrip was. GM is starting to glue on some of its quarter panles in areas like the wheel well and trunk exts everywhere else it was welded.

Ive been using glue for panel replacement since 98 and yet to see any failures with a glued of panel. Not saying it hasnt happened or cant happen but anything can go wrong when the product isnt used in its intend manner...just my opinion...Eric

[This message has been edited by sevt_chevelle (edited 01-09-2002).]

I agree with you sevt_chevelle on the places to use it i pretty much only use it around the wheelhouse and on doorskins.When it first came out, i glued everything.I glued a quarter skin on a Roadrunner,it was seamed down the center of the panel so i figured no warpage,minimal bodywork.Well about two months later after it was painted you could see a line right where it was seamed.I also glued a bunch of floor pans and some trunk repair panels.To me it seems like more trouble,its messy and you need a lot of clamps and most of the day for it to cure,now i just weld it,its faster and cheaper.Whatever you do dont glue a visible seam like the sail panel.You will see a line after a while.

GREAT discussion...
I am from the old school and mostly weld on and Finnish. But while doing my 65 El-Camino
(Read) No repair panels in 99.
I needed to repair lower/from, wheel well area,rear lower rocker and complete area around gas filler door.
It took 4 custom made panel to fill the area.
The sales rep bugged me to try
Duramix patch panel adhesive.

I flanged and used steel pop rivets to hold the panel in place while curing and did a tack weld at corners while uncured.
It's been 2 1/2 years and ALL IS WELL !!!
So sometimes you can teach a dog new tricks.
But I still use my welder MOST all the time.

Wayne

ACES #1556
TCG #186

The panels we were thinking of replacing were just lower quarter patch panels. Not a real big job. The real problem I see is that the parts we would need to bond the new panel to are pitted from the previous panel. We were worried about welding after my 69 caprice was welded and well, now you can see the weld seems. It's sad but my rust free California car has more rust on it now than before I took it to the body shop!

------------------
1969 Caprice 4400LBS!!
454/M-20
12-bolt 4.10 Posi
13.45 @ 105
323HP @ 5200RPM
382lb-ft @ 3300RPM at the wheels!
Andy and Nick's Muscle Car Half-way House (http://www.public.iastate.edu/~amcarthu)