Has anyone used the Eastwood flangeing tool? I'm thinking about buying one to replace 1/4 skins on a Chevelle and thought this would make a better fit.
Ron

I have one & they can help in some places. The best would be full 1/4's though. If you use the flanging tool fit your new 1/4 first to establish your cut line and then trim old one off w/ enough to make your flange. You can practice on a old piece of metal to get a feel for it & see how much it changes when flanged. Good luck, JOHN

I have one and use once in a while. But I have to tell you a better way is "Butt weld with backing".

This is when you have a near perfect butt and put a strip of metal behind it to lay the new part on. The gap between the top panels is an eigth inch or so and you weld the two together at the same time WITH the backing. The flange tool will sometimes distort the panel, this method keeps everything aligned nice.

The strip of metal should be an inch or so wide and you punch holes next to your seam every few inches to plug weld the strip in. You clamp the strip to the car at this seam and plug weld it in. Then when you lay the new part up to it,it leaves a nice gap to weld.

To trim the panel, lay the new part up on TIGHT where it is clamped in place perfectly straight as you will when finished. Be sure the door and trunk gaps are correct ("Basics of Basics" TRIAL FITTING PANELS) and then run a scribe on the line with a sharp awl. Remove the panel and cut right on that line. You will now have a perfect seam. It will be so perfect, you will need to trim a little more off to give you the 1/8 gap to weld thru into the backing.

NOW, with all that being said, if you scribe that line and cut it off for this perfect seam, what about butt welding it? If you have access to the back, you may want to butt weld it, it makes for a much nicer weld. Believe me, the perfect seam makes all the difference in the world when it comes to butt welding.
http://modernmusclecars.net/forums/images/smilies/welder.gif

Hey Martin

I've been reading up on this panel adhesive. What do you think of it for attaching a 3/4 quarter panel. I wonder how you would clamp it together, obviously you would have to use screws through it. I would also think that the screws would have to be fairly close together resulting in a swiss cheese repair along the length of the joint. I have both a cab corner on the GMC and a pair of quarters to do on the rear quarters of the 70, I'm thinking just above the body line and I'm trying to decide between using the conventional backed but joint or the adhesive. Several local guys and a couple on here that I have corresponded with love the adhesive. What do you think of the stuff? Any basics of basics on adhesives?

Rick, intersting points and questions on adhesive. Quality adhesives have more than proven themselves. There are high end cars like Jaguar with bonded frame sections!

Read the following GM bulletin to see how GM recommends its use.
http://members.aol.com/whatcouldiknow/gluepatchpanel.jpg

As far as the glue strip being "swiss cheese". Think about this, the spot welds that hold the entire car together are "swiss cheese" like. A little 5/16" spot weld every inch or so. The idea behind the adhesive is how many "square inches" of bonding you have holding the parts together. Compared to the "tiny" 5/16" spot welds "bonding" the parts, adhesive has a heck of a lot more "bonding" strength. So those screws holding it together "should" make no difference what so ever.

I understand but what I meant was in order to hold the panel in place until the adhesive has set up, lets say from the tail to the door jamb 2 inches above the body line, tight enough to ensure a good bond you would have to screw it together every how often? I'm not saying that I don't think the adhesive is strong, I've read the literature on it and it seems to be almost to good to be true, but lets say I'm going to replace the entire lower section of a quarter from the rear to the door jamb. I would have to flange the new quarter or the existing sheet metal and then use screws to draw the two together, then all of these screw holes would have to be filled. I was just asking your opinion and for any insights on the process. You and Eric have written much that has guided us but in almost every case you guys talk about welding on panels, especially in the situation that I just outlined. Would you recommend using the adhesive on such a long horizontal splice? Would you flange it or just lap it or use a backer strip like you suggested with the butt weld?

i have used the panel adhesive on my 71 quarters, the adhesive is excellant but the only problem with it is you will be able to sight the joint from expansion, the stuff is strong and although you can site the joint i seemed mine above the vinyl top so it will be covered, i also used a backing strip behind the 2 panels with a lapped flange joint.

forgot to add 1 thing, i used self tapping screws to hold the panels in place while the glue set up every 1 to 1 1/2 .

Hey Brian dont forget the BMW 5 series that has ONLY a bond or adhesive repair when you splice the lower rail!!! No rivets, no bolts, no welds just some good ole fashioned glue!!

Martin,
why would you butt weld and leave that backing piece in place? Isnt that leaving a bad overlap inside the car for rust to form, besides being pretty ugly from inside the trunk? I understand why it is used, but wouldnt it be better to not have it?

Rick, this is what I would if I were to bond on anything in a case like this.

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/adhesive_bond_splice1.jpg

This pic is taken right from the Fusor user guideline book.
It shows two different attachment methods. I have done some reading and how listening to others that know WAY more then I do, and the second or method B is the way to fly.

The backer strip helps prevent or lessen the contraction/expansion rates of the different materials. Ive also come to find that a HUGE step in preventing this is simply beveling the edges.

What you do is make your backer strip about two inches wides, you want about 1 inch of backer per side of joint. Prep the old panel for adhesive and grind the egdes, apply your glue and clamp the backer to the old quarter using vise grips. This rids the srew holes on the top portion of the panel. Allow that backer a good two to three day cure. Most adhesives reach full cure in 24hrs at 70 degrees. Once the 2-3 days has past remove clamps and prep the backer strip so you can bond on the new panel. Just make sure you remove any squeezed out glue.

Now bond on your new panel with screws about every 1.5 inch. Play around with some scrap and find out what a good amount is to get a good clamp.

Allow that panel another 2-3 days of cure before you remove the screws. Once the screws are out take a drill bit same size as the hole and clean the hole of any glue. Glue and urethane products like primer and paint dont mix well so you need to remove as much glue as you can.

Then apply 2 coats of epoxy primer over the bonded seem and apply your filler.
A great filler for this app would be a filler made by Upol called High Density. Its some pretty cool stuff. I got turned on to it by a guy that worked on the big rigs and would splice the SMC or 'glass

As for adhesives, personally I like Fusor. Am not a fan of 3M 8115 at all. Right now am working at a shop that uses Duramix and it really does seem like some great stuff, I like it. Plus its cheaper then 3M and so is the gun to apply it with.

Anyway i think the key to bonding so you get a no ghost line after wards is the backer strip and beveling the edges to atleast 10-15 degrees...Eric

so if you use a good bevel on the joint, B, you will eliminate the sight line problem? Would you leave a slight gap between the panels at the bottom of the channel formed by the joint? How wide?

Ok, it seems that the trick to holding it together while the adhesive cures is to use a bunch of little screws. Can you use screws that get the heads ground off later, or do you remove the screws and apply some type of filler? Either way this might look nasty from the inside of the trunk (if we are talking quarterpanels here). I really like the idea of using an adhesive because it does not warp the panel and is a very strong bond, but the clamping seems to be the tricky part here.

I've glued on numerous patch panels using screws to hold in place while the adhesive is setting up. Cab corners are excellent areas for the adhesives to be used as the inside area cannot be seen. If attaching half or 3/4 skins I prefer to butt weld at the seam so the inside can be finished off easily. When using screws, the adhesive is cured the screws are removed and I usually just chamfer the hole witha large drill bit or burr then use everglass to fill the holes and also the void left at the seam. Some people prefer to use more bonding material to fill the screw holes. The ideal situation for using the adhesive IMO is where there isno access or limited access to the panel's backside, I usually rustproof the panel in all areas except where the adhesive goes prior to installing it- prep the panel and car for the glue, protect the glue areas with masking tape- apply the rust protectant of choice- remove the tape- apply the glue and install.
If you use the screws on areas where the panel's backside is visable the filler material used for filling the screw holes will surely be visable as well as the backer strip if used requireing additional filler work to finish off this area.
Just remember fitting the panel prior to final installation is a must. Also avoid any heat while doing any grinding near the joint or the adhesive will seperate. Bob

So, Professor: what's it going to be? Weld or Adhesive? I'm taking this all in, boys. The time is gonna come for me to do this job on my '70 as well. And looking at my roof, I'm still thinking it's gonna require a swap,so does this mean I should plan on full quarters, as opposed to the half quarters?

Rick, I was told by both a 3M and Fusor rep that method B should prevent the ghost line. But the key is beveling the edges!!!

If you read the tech bullention that Martinsr posted it too mentions the taper.

As for a gap fusor says 1/32 to 1/16 gap between the two pieces.

Vetteman full quarters are the ONLY way to fly in my book.

I'm going to try the adhesive on the cab corners for the GMC truck. If it works well I'll give it a shot on the 70. I was thinking full quarters at one point, and that is probably the way I should have gone, but the given the monetary realities of my life at this point, and the condition of the car, not to mention the work I've already done to it, I am going to have to stick to partial quarters, and that is on the back burner until spring at least.

Thanks for all the info guys.

rick