Use Lacquer Paint On Your Chevelle [Archive] - Chevelle Tech

: Use Lacquer Paint On Your Chevelle


c.c.c
Jul 29th, 02, 9:46 PM
I would like to help people see the light about lacquer paint.
I seen somebody on here called 70 is fine was laughting his a77 off on me because I mentioned lacquer was a better paint job than base coat clear coat ENAMEL. All that bc cc is is thick ugly ENAMEL paint. The color doesn't even shine ,you have to look thru a coat of thick clear to even see the color.
The newer paint than bc cc is even worst yet.
What I'm getting at is you guys do all that work getting your car ready then put ENAMEL on your car. It didn't come with enamel it came with lacquer.
If you would ever see a good black lacquer paint job you would would only use bc cc on your wheel barrel.
Why do you think they only use lacquer paint on the real expensive cars.There is a place for bc cc but not on a chevelle that you like more than any other car.
Bc cc is like building a house and leaving tar paper on the out side .
Bc cc may be a toughter paint but who in he88 wants to look at that thick fakey paint every day.A lacquer paint job with a few chip in it will always look better than bc cc ENAMEL.
So if you guys want to keep them original try to get your car painted lacquer which has a mile deep thin shine and you won't have to look thru that thick cc ENAMEL to see what color your car is.
And for 70isfine I laugh every time I see a bc cc ENAMEL paint job.
Jerry
Here is a link with a car that looks like it has a lacquer paint job. If it isn't it is close to it http://www.noneckschevelle.com/images/carpics/bill%20tirelli%2069%20ss396.jpg

Shawn
Jul 29th, 02, 11:10 PM
I've always liked lacquer but I've heard it's expensive to use and hard to get these days. I was also told that today's sutff isn't as good as what was used in the 60's because the lead has been removed from it. I've got 15 year old black enamel on my car, and it's showing it's age, but for black I'd definitely opt for that. As you said though, it may not last as long but it looks better.

------------------
1970 Chevy Custom El Camino (http://www.dreamelectric.com)
Originally was & will be Green Mist & Silver w/Green Vinyl Top (now black/black)
350ci/300HP 4bbl & Dual Exhaust
TH-350 - 2.73 Posi Rear - Factory PS, PDB, PW, Tilt, A/C & More
Also, check out my new 1987 Chevy Caprice Coupe! (http://www.dreamelectric.com/caprice.html)
Other Restorations - 1969 Snowco Trailer (http://www.dreamelectric.com/Snowco.html) & 1967 Sears Custom 600 Tractor (http://www.dreamelectric.com/1967Sears.html)

66 MYSTERY CHEVELLE
Jul 29th, 02, 11:19 PM
Hey now there's a new game we can all play...even the kids http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

guess my paintjob (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/nicepaintjob.jpg)

chev64
Jul 29th, 02, 11:38 PM
You can't play here Mike, your car isn't black, none of mine are either. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/wink.gif

------------------
Leo Paugh
Maryland Chevelle Club #017
A.C.E.S.#3731
progress has little to do with speed, but lots to do with direction.
Maryland Chevelle Club (http://www.chevelles.net/mcc/mcc.htm)

70isfine
Jul 29th, 02, 11:41 PM
Your cars came with bias ply tires too.Should we all run them also?.Its 2002,the technology of todays paint systems leave laquer in the dust.Laquer is not durable,it shrinks,it cracks,it sucks.Who wants to spend a thousand hour doing bodywork to have the paint fail in a few years?Any one else think it looks 'fakey',whatever that is.A properly applied urethane clearcoat will outshine your ten coats of laquer clear any day and will last ten times as long.By the way I'm still LMAO at you.

Albbies1
Jul 29th, 02, 11:54 PM
Friends,

I am not going to take sides but my choice will be laquer on my repaint. I figure since the car will be driven but only on nice days I can avoid some the scratches etc. I must say I have seen some very nice BC CC but somewhat tend to agree laquer most of the time looks better! Oppps I have taken a side on this issue.

Dwaine
66SS

MalibuJerry350
Jul 30th, 02, 12:00 AM
Around 1985 or so, I repainted my Chevelle using lacquer. This, after replacing both rear quarters and both front fenders with new GM parts. By 1992, the first signs of cracking and "spider webbing" was evident. By the time I decided to repaint in 1998, there was almost no paint left on the trunk or large areas of the hood. The sun had done it's work on the lacquer. I had to strip every bit of paint off and sand down to metal before I could prime and paint, this time using PPG's acrylic enamel with a urethane hardner. If the car is never exposed to the sun and kept under cover, yeah, lacquer's fine. But, be aware, in most states you couldn't spray it if you wanted to!

------------------
MalibuJerry350
TC Member #1279
Original owner '70 Chevelle.
580,000+ miles on car.
Hey, if it's got wheels, DRIVE IT!
My Chevelle: http://hometown.aol.com/erie614/myhomepage/index.html

66 MYSTERY CHEVELLE
Jul 30th, 02, 12:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chev64:
You can't play here Mike, your car isn't black, none of mine are either. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/wink.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I missed the part where it was only car's being painted Black should use lacquer...oh well...I would still like to play, but we need more players http://www.chevelles.com/forum/wink.gif

Rich-L79
Jul 30th, 02, 12:08 AM
Gee, I guess I'll have to suffer on with this crappy paint job:

http://www.amhost.com/scooter/temporary/polishedlowfront.jpg
http://www.amhost.com/scooter/temporary/polishedrearlow.jpg
http://www.amhost.com/scooter/temporary/finishedfrontdrv.jpg

Mike: that's a beauty of a shot of the '66!

c.c.c.: Try to think before you speak. I've had lacquer on my car in the past and while it was a beauty of a paint job at the time, it did not last long (4 years, always garage kept and driven very little, exceptionally well cared for) and I've yet to see a modern lacquer job that can match what the old lacquers used to or even what the modern paints can currently do.




------------------
NCOA member #220 ACES member #1670
Team Chevelle #998 YesterYears Chevys #52949
American Muscle Car Association #142
Rich's 1965 Malibu SS Restoration Project Progress Page (http://www.geocities.com/ticklewiggle/)

c.c.c
Jul 30th, 02, 12:24 AM
Just because it is new doesnt mean it is good now does it? .... Oh well I was just stating my opinion as I am entitled to do (I love this country)Use what you want I never told you, you had to use lacquer!! If you put a car painted of a good lacquer paint job next to a enamel one .. well you just tell me ....even though you may have to fix a lacquer job once in a while you dont have to look at enamel everyday!
Jerry

Rich-L79
Jul 30th, 02, 12:46 AM
I don't think we were talking about WHAT you said so much as HOW you said it. What you said was said in a rather condescening, insulting way which is not appreciated. If you want to get folks to see your point of view and come around to your way of thinking, insulting them and their cars is not the way to do it.

Posting a given note in one forum at a time is preferred as well.

c.c.c
Jul 30th, 02, 1:51 AM
Rich,
I never meant to insult/hurt people feelings or their cars. I was only stating that as far as looks I feel lacquer paintjobs are superior over bc cc. Sorry if they took it that way.
Jerry

sevt_chevelle
Jul 30th, 02, 2:35 AM
70isfine isnt the only one laughing their a@@ off at you C.C.C. Ill take a "fakey" BC/CC painted car any day of week and twice on sunday over your lacquer painted car.

Ill tell you which car has been painted with lacquer the one that is all cracked, spider webbed and shows sand scratches thats the one painted with lacquer.

Eric...proud owner of a BC/CC painted chevelle

------------------
1970 chevelle
1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a buick baby
1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/sevt_chevelles

chev64
Jul 30th, 02, 10:34 AM
Hey Mike, I wonder what Ed Pienta painted his car with, BC/CC or Lacquer???????

------------------
Leo Paugh
Maryland Chevelle Club #017
A.C.E.S.#3731
progress has little to do with speed, but lots to do with direction.
Maryland Chevelle Club (http://www.chevelles.net/mcc/mcc.htm)

66 MYSTERY CHEVELLE
Jul 30th, 02, 11:10 AM
Red Rover Red Rover let Eddie come over!! I want Ed on my Team, he's got a Black one too http://www.chevelles.com/forum/wink.gif


It aint Lacquer, That's a Fact! and it's painted for about 13 yrs now if I recall...He lurks in the bushes here...like me...so I will let him tell you what he used....

------------------
66 MYSTERY CHEVELLE.COM (http://hometown.aol.com/mysterychevelle/66CHEVELLESS.html)

BIGMOE65
Jul 30th, 02, 11:11 AM
bc/cc, bc/cc, bc/cc!!!

------------------
1965 El Camino
350-turbo 350
"someday it will be finished"

70isfine
Jul 30th, 02, 12:00 PM
Hey c.c.c, whats your opinion on laquer BC/CC?You refer to base/clear being thick and ugly.You call it enamel,you can shoot base/ clear in laquer,enamel or urethane.After rereading your posts you sound confused and misinformed.I would recomend you do a little research on paint systems before you give advice on the subject.

67shovel
Jul 30th, 02, 12:49 PM
I've got a Camaro at home I painted in 1983 in lacquer and it's still looks perfect. No cracking or spider webs. I've also have a 442 in lacquer by somebody else and it's flaking off badly. For the at home guy without a paint booth I prefer lacquer. No, you can't leave them outside for years without maintance but I can pick a lacqer job from a bc/cc almost every time. Bc/cc is good, tough paint and after a good color sanding it can also look perfect but the rock chips are deep and I think it's harder to patch in damaged areas. Bc/cc reminds me of the plastic dip you put your plier handles in. Real thick looking but maintance free.

Ken K
Jul 30th, 02, 4:20 PM
I love my lacquer paint job, I 'm sorry to disagree with some people but lacquer has a look that B/C-C/C just does not have. It may not be as durable as B/C-C/C but it can go the distance. My first lacquer paint job lasted 12 years and three of those years it was out in the Arizona sun and neglected before it was put in the garage, it was still presentable but I was not happy with the body work so I redid it. The paint on there now has been on for 4 years and still looks like the day I rubbed it out. I don't know about other brands but Dupont Lucite has me sold, it's the only lacquer I would ever use. My truck came from the factory with B/C-C/C and the paint only lasted 7 years before it started going south.

Randy Mosier
Jul 30th, 02, 5:57 PM
First of all, the factory did not shoot lacquer on these cars. They used baked enamel. The factories stopped using lacquer sometime in the 50s because of the work involved in getting it to shine. Remember, cars are built on an assembly line, and that means using whatever process that gets the job done quickest and cheapest. Lacquer simply did not meet that criteria. Our cars were shot in oven baked enamel.

However, custom paint jobs were usually done in lacquer, even up until the early 1990s. As you all know, when doing a custom paint job, you can take all the time that is needed to make it look right since you're not dealing with an assembly line. The popularity of lacquer has fallen off in recent years due to EPA concerns over the VOCs (volatile organic coumpounds)that are given off while it dries. BC/CC and epoxy based paints have become increasingly popular because of fewer EPA restrictions and because of their ease of use, relatively speaking. With BC/CC, you have a paint job with the durability of lacquer, but with the flexibility of acrylic enamel. Unlike acrylic enamel, you can make spot repairs within a couple of days, rather than having to wait a month. It's similar to lacquer in that regard. So it's safe to say to say that BC/CC paint jobs combine the best features of lacquer and acrylic enamel. They provide durable and flexible finishes that are relatively easy to apply, and that can be touched up in a matter of days after being applied.

Albbies1
Jul 30th, 02, 6:58 PM
Friends

I don't care what folks want to paint their cars, BC/CC or laquer. Its an individuals choice or preference. No one is right or wrong!

What I do take offense to is the rare but occasional post from our folks assigned to keep this site nice and tidy get involved in an attack that can be taken as insulting and condensending to members of this forum. I thought this assignment was to help us get along and keep the peace with our Chevelle friends and members. Not to jump into the trenches of insulting remarks etc.

Now that I expressed my concerns about proper monitoring and or friendly participation I still would like my laquer paint. I also agree that my online 66SS friend Mike Crown has a beautiful car and paint job! Thumbs up all!

Dwaine
66SS

MalibuJerry350
Jul 30th, 02, 7:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Randy Mosier:
First of all, the factory did not shoot lacquer on these cars. They used baked enamel. The factories stopped using lacquer sometime in the 50s because of the work involved in getting it to shine. Remember, cars are built on an assembly line, and that means using whatever process that gets the job done quickest and cheapest. Lacquer simply did not meet that criteria. Our cars were shot in oven baked enamel.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, Randy, our cars WERE shot in lacquer. If you turn to page 43 of the 1970 owner's manual under "Exterior Appearance", it reads, "Your car is finished with General Motors 'Magic-Mirror' acrylic lacquer. This is a finish of maximum beauty which, in depth of color, gloss retention and durability, is superior to conventional lacquer finishes".

------------------
MalibuJerry350
TC Member #1279
Original owner '70 Chevelle.
580,000+ miles on car.
Hey, if it's got wheels, DRIVE IT!
My Chevelle: http://hometown.aol.com/erie614/myhomepage/index.html

[This message has been edited by MalibuJerry350 (edited 07-30-2002).]

vettefella
Jul 30th, 02, 7:26 PM
Randy Mosier, I do believe you are mistaken about what type of paint was used on "these" cars. In fact, Chevy used a paint called "dispersion Lacquer" into the late 80s...on the Cavalier if memory serves correctly.

The type of paint and the process used to apply it at the factory frequently bears little relationship to what is commercially used to duplicate the factory finish. For example: you probably hear the statement "I want to buy the FACTORY paint". In almost all cases, if you could find a source for the true factory paint, you couldn't use it. Today's finishes are applied at the factory without the use of hardners or catalysts. The paint is dried(partially cured) by heat...as high as 250-300 degrees. So, even if you could buy the "factory paint", where would you find a drying facility capable of that tempurature? Even so, heat that high would ruin almost all trim, wiring etc notwithstanding explosions of any flammable fluids left in/on the car.

I respectfully submit that you are mistaken about the type of paint used.

To the point of this debate-lacquer vs enamels/urethanes, I consider myself somewhat of an expert on paints and painting. There are several others who regularly post on this forum that may very well make me seem like a novice, but not a one of them(nor I) recommend the use of lacquer over the newer paints. Regardless of their expertise and experience, if a person chooses to use lacquer on their car, it's their money and their car. They can do as they please. When I see someone who insists on the use of lacquer, I usually just shake my head in sympathy and keep my mouth shut. I don't do commercial paint jobs anymore, but if I did, I would not agree to do a lacquer job at any price nor will I ever again do one of my own cars with lacquer---originality be damned. I haven't used lacquer for a complete paint job in over 20 years.

Another .02 worth.

Rich-L79
Jul 30th, 02, 8:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Albbies1:
What I do take offense to is the rare but occasional post from our folks assigned to keep this site nice and tidy get involved in an attack that can be taken as insulting and condensending to members of this forum. I thought this assignment was to help us get along and keep the peace with our Chevelle friends and members. Not to jump into the trenches of insulting remarks etc. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm, to whom might you be referring? I thought the point of my posts has been to point out that the original post was rather insulting to those who are not on the lacquer side of the fence and to point out that fact so he could be aware of how he came across. Just having "Moderator" by my name does not mean I'm not entitled to my own opinion.

Regardless of what is used, a good paint job is a good paint job and each kind of paint has it strong and weak points.

Randy Mosier
Jul 30th, 02, 8:25 PM
I may stand corrected, but I could have sworn I read somewhere that lacquer was no longer used after the 50s or early 60s due to the time spent making it look right. I remember the owner of the body shop that was next door to our house where I grew up in south Texas always commenting about how the factory USED to shoot cars in lacquer before making the switch to baked enamel in the 60s. I'd be very surprised to learn that lacquer was still used in the 70s, but if it's in the manuals.............like I said, it's surprising to learn. Old Herbert (the owner of the abovementioned body shop) was pretty sharp about this type of stuff. I never had any reason to question him.

Ken K
Jul 30th, 02, 9:06 PM
GM used lacquer right up until the early eighties. Most of the high line cars got lacquer while some of the lesser models got enamal. I know for a fact my 79 El Camino was built with lacquer paint. You can look at the paint code on the body tag to see if you car was built with lacquer, there will be a L before the paint code.

vettefella
Jul 30th, 02, 9:43 PM
Randy, Ole Herbert was correct about most other car makers except GM. I don't know when the others changed from lacquer to enamel, but I know that Ford was using enamel in the early 50s. I believe Chrysler was also, but not sure.

FWIW, Corvettes were painted at the factory with lacquer until the middle of the 82 production year. When the Bowling Green plant opened, they began using BC/CC.

ToocoolZ28
Jul 30th, 02, 9:48 PM
Gm used Lacquer at least through 89, my 89 Cavalier has Lacquer stamped on the tag.
I do like the look of Lacquer but I wouldnt paint another car with it. I used it a LOT in the 80's but since I learned how to spray Enamels and get that great smoothness and shine that I used to get from Lacquer I dropped the Lacquer like a hot potato.
Ron

------------------
70 Chevelle SS396 (427)M21 Before (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/70before.jpg) / After (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/70later.jpg)
66 Nova SS 327 M20 (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/toocool66.jpg)
95 Z28 Convertible T56
Aces 3081, TC #54 Gold

[This message has been edited by ToocoolZ28 (edited 07-30-2002).]

JU87
Jul 30th, 02, 10:06 PM
Those who state that lacquer was used in to the '70's are right. It is fairly obvious when you see a car with the original paint from the '60-'70's that is cracking, crows feet and spiderwebbing- that its the magic mirror lacquer. Enamel is nowhere near a perfect paint (is there one? http://www.chevelles.com/forum/rolleyes.gif )but it is kind of easy to distiguish from lacquer.

Who really cares what auto paint people prefer? You can paint your Chevelle with Dutch Boy house paint and a foam roller for all I care. It's your car, your money, your opinion. Do as you please.

66 MYSTERY CHEVELLE
Jul 30th, 02, 11:05 PM
This may shed some light...not to beat a dead horse or anything...but a nice example of a tag from a 66 SS..note paint type:

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/temp66fremont.jpg

Albbies1
Jul 31st, 02, 12:20 AM
Friends,

Mike where do you get all those neat toys! Very nice vin tag example. Rich you are right you are a modirator here in TC and entitled to your opinons like all of us.

But my fellow Chevelle friend you are not entitled to tell folks to think before they speak no matter how offensive their thread might be. You are not our teacher, parent, or elder but another source or person sharing his opinon with all inquiring minds! And as far as showing pictures of your quote crappy paint job! That was not necessary you and I and many others here know you have a beautiful car. I'm all done. Sorry for the matter of fact.

Dwaine
66SS

MARTINSR
Jul 31st, 02, 12:47 AM
c.c.c., It comes down to a subject that I have brought up here a few times, does every single Chevelle on earth "DESERVE", a complete bare metal strip, butt welding every joint to make them invisible, metal finishing to bondo free, lacquer paint, etc. That is the question I have for you.

If you are saying that a mint SS 396 four speed convetible "deserves" that treatment, I would have to agree with you. But if you are saying that a EVERY Chevelle MUST be painted in lacquer, you are way off.

The last lacquer job I did was a repair on a Model A I had shot a number of years before and I had forgotten how much of a PAIN it was to use. I can't imagine turning back the clock to lacquer days.

Yes, GM used Lacquer up into the early eigthies. Depending on what plant, there was water borne paint being applied in LA.

Here is a little trivia for you. I did a super nice original 1969 GT500 Shelby conv. (four speed, drag pack, the works!). I found that the all the Ford sheet metal (doors, quarters) were factory Ford enamel while the fiberglass pieces that were added at the Shelby plant were lacquer!

------------------
1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

Shawn
Jul 31st, 02, 2:35 AM
My 1987 Caprice wears white lacquer, it says so on the cowl tag and the SPID tag on the underside of the trunk lid. It held up pretty good, no checks or cracks, just a little dull in spots, nothing a buffer couldn't fix. Chips in spots though.

------------------
1970 Chevy Custom El Camino (http://www.dreamelectric.com)
Originally was & will be Green Mist & Silver w/Green Vinyl Top (now black/black)
350ci/300HP 4bbl & Dual Exhaust
TH-350 - 2.73 Posi Rear - Factory PS, PDB, PW, Tilt, A/C & More
Also, check out my new 1987 Chevy Caprice Coupe! (http://www.dreamelectric.com/caprice.html)
Other Restorations - 1969 Snowco Trailer (http://www.dreamelectric.com/Snowco.html) & 1967 Sears Custom 600 Tractor (http://www.dreamelectric.com/1967Sears.html)

vettefella
Jul 31st, 02, 3:02 AM
Shawn, the Caprice got lacquer through the end of the 89 production run. Chevy started using BC/CC on the 90 models.

Oops! Make that "used lacquer through the 90 production run ... started using BC/CC on the 91 models."

[This message has been edited by vettefella (edited 07-31-2002).]

boomhauer
Jul 31st, 02, 1:41 PM
Albbies1,you crack me up!I cant help but be picture the hippie teacher from Beavis and Butthead when i read your posts!I dont mean to offend you,we could use some more peace and love type people in todays world. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Randy Mosier
Jul 31st, 02, 8:03 PM
Actually, this thread has been very educational! I learned something new, and I think everyone has been given enough info to decide what type of finish is right for them. What more could you ask?

GVMLS6
Jul 31st, 02, 11:39 PM
If anyone thinks that they are duplicating the original laquer finish on their car with the laquer that is available on the aftermarket, they are sadly mistaken. As Vettefella stated earlier, the original paint as applied at the factory, was sprayed completely differently than we can apply in shops. Factory paint was applied with little or no thinners or reducers. Aftermarket laquer is applied with as much as a 150 percent reduction rate. Anyone that knows the chemistry of coatings, knows that reducers greatly degrade the durability of any coating. This is why the laquer we spray in shops is never as durable and chips much easier than factory paint jobs. It takes forever for all the thinner to evaporate, and when it does, it gets hard and starts to crack. This is especially true with the laquers available today (with lead removed).
I have noticed that laquer needs to be buffed every year to remove the swelling and tightening up look, while once BC/CC Urethane looks good,it stays that way almost forever. At least my paintwork does.
As far as the laquer "look" goes, urethane can be made to look just like laquer with a little extra work. (Those of us who actually worked on these cars when they were new, know that laquer, factory paint jobs were not that smooth and didn't look anything like the "flat" laquer paint jobs that people put on their cars in the aftermarket)
So my professional advice is: Use BC/CC urethane. Laquer is outdated and is a waste of time and money.
Gordon VM
Restoration Motorsports http://groups.msn.com/Restorationphotos/shoebox.msnw?Page=1

more ambition than brains
Aug 1st, 02, 2:40 PM
This is a great thread. General Motors did use Lacquer into the late 80's, depending on plant and body style. Example, most A bodies had lacquer, often times labeled as dispersion lacquer. Grand National's were lacquer, along with their other GM brothers. Did a TON of strip and repaints on late 80's Buicks, Olds, and Chevs as warrantee repair. Most full size GM except for Impalas were bc/cc enamels. They had MAJOR delamination problems with some of BC|CC. The lacquer cars had MAJOR cracking and checking problems. It would seem that the paint manufacturers were converting their products to bc/cc in those years the GENERAL did NOT adjust their process for the change. As stated there was also a waterborn experiment due to VOC requirements. The waterborne cars that I saw were built in California. Both GM and the paint manufacturers had a VERY expensive learning experience during those years. JMO on lacquer vs enamel. Keep in mind that all lacquers are not created equal. Dupont was different from RM which was different from SW etc. (remember lacquer or acrylic lacquer) The different products sprayed, buffed, held up differently. When we talk Enamel it is important to consider the progression of products, and the overlapping time of their use. 50's- straight and synthetic enamel. 60s & very early 70s enamels & acrylic enamels. 70s early 80s acrylic enamel, urethanes, and acrylic urethanes. Glasrut had one of the earliest bc/cc enamel, used on metalics on many german and swedish cars. They too had some upper surface failures from exposure to sun. Sherwin Williams came out with a modified clear coat product Late 70s? Base sprayed like enamel clear was similar, buffed like concrete. All of these products have their place in time, If your vehicle will be a driver with exposure to sun, abrasion etc. and you want that mirror like wet look with lower maintainance, bc/cc urethanes are the way to go. For trailer queens lacquer has proven itself to be a flexible product. (I mean NO disrespect)In my lacquer days we did a lot of experimenting, trying application processes that were similar to todays bc/cc to achieve better gloss and fewer buff throughs on metallics. The result was good in the short term but poor over the long term due to exposure to elements and temperature changes. Keep in mind that these were vehicles in daily use in Minnesota with 100 degree difference in temp range. Film build was very high and recoating and re-blending could cause checking and crazing. Last year I stripped and repainted a 69 Wildcat that I painted with RM lacquer, with clear added to final coats, ultimately all clear on top. Did 5 or 6 touch up repairs over the 20 years, had to use very fast thinners, even to the point of a non-penetrating thinner in later years. Also used waterborne primer to act as sealer/barrier between new and old finish. This car was always garaged and only driven in summer to shows and gatherings. My finish was on top of original lacquer finish. Redid car because of checking (crowsfeet) and some crazing. Was it my paint that failed or the Generals? Never will know for sure however, some panels were mostly stripped first time and primed with lacquer primer. All panels failed, most prevelant on upper surfaces. I know this is long, but it is very hard to put 40 years in one sentence. Karl

Ken K
Aug 1st, 02, 4:16 PM
Out of curisity can BC/CC be applied over lacquer or does the lacquer have to be removed completly?

cjlandry
Aug 1st, 02, 5:23 PM
From what I saw at Chevellabration 2002, the BC/CC jobs look really good!

I've always liked the way a good laquer job looks. I also spent a great deal of my childhood polishing on my dad's cars that had laquer paint jobs. I definitely prefer today's paints for ease of maintenance.

I will paint my car with BC/CC when I finally get down to "perfecting" the body. Meanwhile, PPG's Acrylic Enamel is inexpensive and works really well on my daily driver/work truck El Camino.

------------------
My Web Page (http://www.landry-family.com) (updated 06-21-02)

"Long Live Freedom!"

Chad Landry
TC Member #643
ACES Member #4556
'68 El Camino, 357, L31 Vortec heads, 700R4,
8.2 10-bolt, 3.55 gears, Auburn Pro Posi.

more ambition than brains
Aug 1st, 02, 11:29 PM
Ken K In my opinion, lacquer makes a very poor foundation for today's finishes. Reason #1 These are paint systems, including base materials, they will have the most optimal performance when used from bare metal up. #2 The older the finish is, the more likely it is already failing, all the way through finish. #3 The solvents from new finish have been known to attack older lacquer products. To some extent the old finish is like dried mud, new paint solvents can cause cracking, splitting and crows feet. Careful application, and not flooding materials on can sometimes minimize this problem. Some times sealers can help. It is always a gamble putting more material on old finish. This is not to say it is impossible and you always MUST strip. Carefully look at old finish, get a professional opinion, and decide how you plan to use car. Daily driver, show, available $$$, time etc. If $$$, time, are short, old finish is really good and use of car will be regular it may be worth a gamble. If you want it shiny and protected, are prepared for less than primo result, view this as a short term measure, and are prepared to do it again in the future, it can be done. Good luck Karl

1968Chevelle300Deluxe
Mar 19th, 09, 6:51 PM
Heres the way I look at it, and im 17 years old imagine that i do not care for basecoat/clearcoat today i would rather paint my chevelle with lacquer on because its the original paint that they sprayed on it but it will be PPG Ditzler Lacquer because i like it so much, im taking bodyshop in Auto Collision, and my bodyshop used to spray lacquer all the time all day long cause he was a big time flat rate guy but thats besides the point the paint today such as basecoat clearcoat today it is a thermo set which means when the paint is subjected to heat such as the sun it will not melt, when lacquer is a thermo plastic which means when subjected to heat, lacquer is basically like chocolate in the sun only a very slower process, my body shop teacher said that they would spray lacquer and let it out in the sun and it would automatically level itself out giving it a beautiful finish im not kidding so dont make fun of me for saying that but its true it would thats why they had such nice finishes cause there was no orange peel, which is why some of todays finishes have trouble because it is so thick you have to reduce the hell out of it to make it look nice and flat, i think the best way to make something shine if you want a newer coating is to use PPG Shopline Single Stage Acrylic Urethane it is the best stuff if you have a solid red, blue, white, black etc, they polish up gorgeous trust me ive sprayed a couple cars with the stuff already and i like it if you are using a solid color as far as im concerned if you are spraying a metallic color i would use lacquer because it polishes up so beautifully plus its the fastest paint system it basically dries instantly but i would definately recommend spraying laquer if you have a really dark color that you want you eyes to be sucked in like it would be good if it was black, hugger, orange, umm like a dark blue you know but i would use basecoat clearcoat for lighter metallic colors only because the metallic kicks in to make it shine your no just relying on the clearcoat to do the job hope this helps you guys that keep arguing lol:clonk:

PaPa Johns 77
Mar 19th, 09, 7:11 PM
Wow! A thread from 2002!!!:)

1968Chevelle300Deluxe
Mar 19th, 09, 7:13 PM
Wow! A thread from 2002!!!:)

ya i have a really bad tendancy to bring them back from the dead haha:noway:

storm
Mar 19th, 09, 7:43 PM
Heres the way I look at it, and im 17 years old imagine that i do not care for basecoat/clearcoat today i would rather paint my chevelle with lacquer on because its the original paint that they sprayed on it but it will be PPG Ditzler Lacquer because i like it so much, im taking bodyshop in Auto Collision, and my bodyshop used to spray lacquer all the time all day long cause he was a big time flat rate guy but thats besides the point the paint today such as basecoat clearcoat today it is a thermo set which means when the paint is subjected to heat such as the sun it will not melt, when lacquer is a thermo plastic which means when subjected to heat, lacquer is basically like chocolate in the sun only a very slower process, my body shop teacher said that they would spray lacquer and let it out in the sun and it would automatically level itself out giving it a beautiful finish im not kidding so dont make fun of me for saying that but its true it would thats why they had such nice finishes cause there was no orange peel, which is why some of todays finishes have trouble because it is so thick you have to reduce the hell out of it to make it look nice and flat, i think the best way to make something shine if you want a newer coating is to use PPG Shopline Single Stage Acrylic Urethane it is the best stuff if you have a solid red, blue, white, black etc, they polish up gorgeous trust me ive sprayed a couple cars with the stuff already and i like it if you are using a solid color as far as im concerned if you are spraying a metallic color i would use lacquer because it polishes up so beautifully plus its the fastest paint system it basically dries instantly but i would definately recommend spraying laquer if you have a really dark color that you want you eyes to be sucked in like it would be good if it was black, hugger, orange, umm like a dark blue you know but i would use basecoat clearcoat for lighter metallic colors only because the metallic kicks in to make it shine your no just relying on the clearcoat to do the job hope this helps you guys that keep arguing lol:clonk:
sounds like your bodyshop teacher is breathing in too much paint fumes!:yes: also sounds like you need some experience in the field before you give any advice out. Its plain and simple lacquer is old and outdated, garbage! It should be against the law to sell the stuff.If you do bc/cc just learn how to flat sand and buff.

BERGERZ28
Mar 19th, 09, 8:13 PM
I have been restoring cars for 31 years as of May 2009, some customers just want lacquer and others want bc/cc, lacquer does not have the durability as years ago. My Berger Z28 Camaro I painted in lacquer no clear like the factory wet sand polish and its beautiful started with epoxy base, bodywork, 2K hi-build primer, seal and paint, its never driven trailer car only buts it does not have the brillance of bc/cc, after all that work great products and then lacquer, its like putting on a new tuxedo with road tracks in your underwear. Now I am doing my own L78 SS Chevelle and its a tough decession yes it was lacquer but I want that killer finish, but my engine has factory orange overspray, overspray on the back of my rims. runs on my control arms, heater was dipped as other components so do I put runs and blemishes on my perfect body or have a perfect paint job ? I have had some low mileage cars in my shop from 17 miles to a couple thousand and if I went to purchase these cars today I would ask for a refund, tough call !!!

Dave Birdwell
Mar 19th, 09, 8:21 PM
if you want a newer coating is to use PPG Shopline Single Stage Acrylic Urethane :clonk:

l:) l:) l:)

Dean
Mar 19th, 09, 8:32 PM
Don't know if one of the 43 replies 7 years ago was mine or not.
I made the mistake of using single stage Lacquer on my 69 and found that its very hard and brittle which causes it to chip very easily.

That was in 1985 and so I here it is not even as good as it used to be.

caminonut
Mar 19th, 09, 11:04 PM
I have been a Painter and Body man in the same body shop for more than 30 years now I have painted with most all that is on the market. I have not used any type of Lacquer for more than 20 years now. I painted one of my own cars a 1970 Nova Black Lacquer it was a pain in the butt to do to get the kind of look you are talking about and it did not last as I had it outside in the sun, I did not have a garage at that time.
The last car I did in Lacquer was a 1973 Elcamino and it was done in Black too.
In our shop we can no longer use any type of Lacquer products anymore "Thank God" everything has gone to HVLP to save the planet.
With the kind of products on the market now with Epoxy Primers Etching Primers and Acrylic Urethane Sealers you can use to go over your bodywork and bare metal, Base Coat and Acrylic Urethane Clear Coat Hardener's is the way to go easy to use and can be wet sanded to look like glass and you never have to worry about sand scratches showing up weeks later like that could happened with Lacquer paints and primers.
Plus if you tint your Clear Coat up to 10% with Color you get a deeper shine than with just Clear only and it makes the color looks like it is on top instead of looking like it is under glass.
But this is JMHO everyone that paints have there own way of doing things. But if you paint try doing a test panel one with Clear only and one with Clear tinted 10% by volume, Wet sand both and see what you think. :beers:

figbash
Mar 20th, 09, 3:22 PM
Lacquer has a lot going for it over the modern BC/CC systems.

It's a LOT safer to use for a home painter because few home painters have the necessary safety equipment to work paints containing isocyanates (full face supplied air respirators specifically). I've never heard of anyone dying from breathing lacquer fumes. The same can't be said about catalyzed BC/CC systems.

Lacquer is also a lot more forgiving for those of us painting in our driveways. If you get a bug or some dirt in it, all you need to do is sand it out and spray on a little more paint. The same goes for repair as the car gets older. Just color sand a buff to bring the shine back. You might get by with that once on a BC/CC paint job but it's gonna get ugly after that, when you start sanding into the base coat.

The only time a lacquer paint job will crack is if it's put on too thick. The last car I owned with a lacquer paint job, I had for more than 20 years. Aside from a few stone chips, it looked pretty much the same as when I first painted it. No cracks or spider webs anywhere.

The only thing lacquer doesn't have going for it now is cost. Since it's not used as much anymore, the cost has gone through the roof.

Tom

eyewanta65
Mar 20th, 09, 4:44 PM
Heres the way I look at it, and im 17 years old

Wow you were 10 years old when these guys originally had at it.

d1_bradley
Mar 20th, 09, 10:20 PM
I wonder what was on the last ten Riddler Award or AMBR cars................

Here's the latest Riddler

http://www.motorator.com/uploads/blog_images/0000/0589/2009_Ridler_3.jpg

Last 2 AMBR

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc76/HarmsWay1932/More%20Hot%20Rod%20Stuff/100_2243.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc76/HarmsWay1932/100_1111.jpg

Slick71ss
Mar 21st, 09, 4:07 PM
I prefer a single stage paint job for most solid colors, especially black. They just look deeper, more glossy, wetter, whatever you want to call it! I wouldn't use lacquer these days because of the durability, but there's nothing wrong with a good acrylic enamel paint job. My Chevelle wears a 12 year old black acrylic enamel paint job and still looks stunning!


http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7812/chevellemay2007016800x6.jpg
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2314/chevellemay2007014800x6.jpg

grandsport
Mar 21st, 09, 4:11 PM
Looks good Phil:thumbsup:Of course I'm partial to black with white stripes.;)

daveseitz
Mar 21st, 09, 5:30 PM
I still remember stripping a killer Lacquer paint job on a guys car in my younger days. The guy had a top notch painter "Peanuts" paint this car in candies and pearls that was all on top of lacquer primer. Car was so beautiful when first done and like crapola after 4 years in the show scene. The guy had boasted it was 27 coats of paint on there wetsanded and buffed to perfection. The entire car was cracked so bad and it was mainly a trailer queen that was always waxed at every show. When it was repainted it was shot in Deltron Black, black base, with 50% clear in mid coats and clear on top. Wet sanded and buffed it was really beautiful and looked wet.