hey guys and gals.

ive been having a little bit of a problem with my chevelle lately.
here it goes...

one day on my way down to my friends place to work on my 350, i was just crusing at about 60mph (which is about 2500rpms). then thing i know, my radio shuts off, and then comes back on, but right when it came back on, the car started to pop and spit and sputter. i just let off the gas and pumped it a few times, and it came back to life.
the second time wasnt so great. it was about 2weeks after this, and i was heading back down to the same persons house, and i was driving through the city and my radio shut off again, and then it came back on. about a block later, i was sitting at a traffic light and i lost everything. i didnt have headlights, nor hazards. and it wouldnt start back up. it was like someone disconnected the battery on me.

i went and messed with the wires to the battery, and they were real nice and tight. i kept trying to start it back up, but nothing. i then messed with the wires on the horn relay, and a few moments after that, it started back up.
when i got my friends we checked it out, and he said it could be my horn relay, and also at the time i didnt have a battery to body ground.

since then, about a week ago, i now have a battery to body ground, and also fixed a wire that ran to the horn relay.

does anybody know what could be the problem? anything i should check? could a bad coil make somthing like this happen? oh btw, i have the Crane XR-i electronic ignition that takes place of points. its a stock type coil im running.

this is my daily driver, and i dont want to be stranded someplace again. so getting this fixed ASAP would be great.

thanks and sorry for the long post.


aaron

If you have a good connection from battery (-) to the right inside fender and you are loosing everything on the car: It's not on the ground side.
You don't need a new horn relay to fix this problem. The horn relay acts as a junction block even if it's dead.
A "could be" is the junction block hiding behind the battery. The wires on that may be corroded and your wiggling the wires may have moved something there.
Intermittent problems can be a little tricky to catch. I would keep a meter handy. When it acts up again measure these points to ground and look for 12 volts.
The large red wires on the horn relay.
The large red wire off the alternator.
The BAT terminal on the fuseblock.
The IGN terminal on the fuseblock (key on).
Should give you an idea where to look.

I've played this game, myself. I'd recommend that since it's intermittent, just like mine was, that you follow John's advice on the wire wiggle tests. Then, if it comes up clean, pull the firewall connector for the wiring harness. It has quite a few spring connectors in there which give power to the fuse box. It's actually screwed into the fusebox, if you notice the position of the connector to the position of the fusebox under the dash. My BAT terminals were overheated, corroded, and when you put too much load on them, everything would go away. Take off some of the load, everything would be fine for a while. I took some sandpaper to the terminals, cleaned them up, then bent them back to where they'd put good pressure to each other. Worked like a champ. :thumbsup: Don't discount this step, it's the cause of alot of problems in these older cars, but often overlooked. ;)

I'm no electrical person, but I've had a few problems similar to yours. Only difference is that I have an MSD 6AL box. When looking thru my wires, not sure how your crane is hooked up and/if your crane box wires are anything similar to MSD's.....

Well, like John mentioned, that lil junction block thingamajig in back of the battery, bolted right next to the passenger side headlight, is a good place to start. After that, as John mentioned, the alternator wires are next. If all is good, I'll check out the starter wires, mine care pretty close to my header and have burnt in the past. Another spot I check is the "hot" wire that comes out of the MSD box that goes to the starter, (I've been told that that same wire can also be connected to your positive battery terminal). After that are the pos/neg wires that come out of the MSD box that connect to the distributor, then the next set of wires, out of the box, that connect to the coil. And last, but not least, the "hot" wire, out of the box, that goes to your ignition. I replaced that one a while back. I never knew it was there, lol, then similar problems like yours, just that the motor would crank over but not turn on.

Well, like I said, I'm not electical guy, but I hope I've been of some help :)

Thanks alot guys. i will go over it today and see what i can come up with.

i dont have an ignition box right now. its just the little electronic module that takes place of the points.

ill let you all know how it goes.


thanks again


aaron

I had this problem in a AMX I used to own, it turned out to be as said above the junction box at the firewall. The engine wiring harnass had started to pull off the the junction box on the engine side of the firewall. I unplugged it, cleaned it up and plugged in back in, problem fixed! Dave

i went out and looked at it for a minute. and i didnt find a junkction box behind my battery. my battery is on the passenger side. and the one wires on the pass side is for the headlight and the marker light. i have a junction box on the driverside, next to the headlight. which i think is my horn relay.

i will check all these out, expecially the fuseblock thing.

thanks again.

aaron

i went out and looked at it for a minute. and i didnt find a junkction box behind my battery. my battery is on the passenger side.
aaron

Have to move the battery out and follow the small positive wire to see it.

i just got back in.

everything was tested at 12.84volts. so hopfully the new battery to body ground i put on the day after this stuff happend helped.

yeah i looked on the core support and there was nothing their. all the wires that run from the battery or the alt run to the driver side wehre their is i belive the horn relay, and a big black box about 3"*3" with a few large connectors on it. if wanted, i could take pics of it to show.

thanks for the help guys, i feel a little more comfortable driving it now.

aaron

If the positive battery cable is a pigtail style cable, there's still a connection near the battery. If they didn't use the junction block, then they crimped onto the pigtail. Either way there is a connection there.
Keep the meter handy. Problem may come back.

I second the firewall plug. They are somewhat famous for their ability to cause problems at the worst possible time. Take it apart and get some contact cleaner and make sure it goes completely back together.

I had the same problem you described and it turned out to be the firewall plug connection. A wire terminal (red wire) was pushing in when I connected the plug to the firewall connection. I had to rebend the small tang on the terminal so it would lock in the terminal block.As said above Don't overlook this. It will go dead at the worst time. Clean all the connections, as well as the ones on the inside of the drivers area side of the firewall.

Since nobody mentioned it do not assume since your +cable is tight at the battery the cable is good. When I worked as a service station jockey (they had those 35 years ago) I saw lots of good connectors and cables that looked fine but were corroded inside where it connects to the lead connector. Just a thought....Patrick

thanks guys.

well looks like today i will pull it off and check it out. i was suposed to go work on my motor, but he aint gunna be working tonight, so i know have free time.

its the box that has all the fuses on right? one with about 50 wires that run into it? do i take these wires off on the engine side or is it in 2peices? i pulled it off lastnight, but it was getting dark out, so i put it back on.

the battery wires and battery are new (about 6 months old). it is a sidepost battery.

could a bad coil cause somthing like this as well, even missing while driving as well? ive had it miss a few times as well, and the wires are fine. it will miss while driving every now and then.

thanks again guys.


aaron

I've seen intermittent coils but a coil wouldn't cause a total lose of power, lights, etc. It would just kill the engine.

true true.

well i pretty much redid the wiring in the engine bay, i found alot of splices (still are alot), and alot of crappy connections, and a few corroded ones as well.
now my alt. light is coming on. i checked the volts off, and it was 12.88. i checked when the car was running and it was 12.88.

the only thing that changed was i redid the wiring, but i did each one at a time. still has the same amount of volts while off, but i dont know what it was before i started. so im gunna go back out today, and see what i can come up with.

i found a black box with about 5 wires that run to it on the core support on the driver side.i took it off and cleaned the connections, and i checked inside, and it was really clean.

i will keep ya'll updated.

aaron

The black box is the voltage regulator. It sounds like your alt is not putting out anything. It should read about 14.5v when running. Could be the alt, voltage regulator or wiring. If you had bad connections it's possible you fried the regulator. I would take the alternator off and have it checked. If it's ok here is a link from electrical forum, on the second page is a procedure to check out your regulator, or you can just buy a new one. John Muha has recommended this one in the past, Wells #VR715 solid state for around $11 at Autozone.

Don't disconnect alt or regulator without disconnecting the battery first.

...here is a link from electrical forum, on the second page is a procedure to check out your regulator...

Where's the link??? :D :p :D

Could also be a bad ignition switch or a bad light switch...I have had both be the problem at one time or another...easy enough to trace out the ground and see it if corroded or broked CK it out first. If its the light switch there will be noticable heat damage and it if the ignition switch the same is possible.


Tazz

its the box that has all the fuses on right? one with about 50 wires that run into it? do i take these wires off on the engine side or is it in 2peices? i pulled it off lastnight, but it was getting dark out, so i put it back on.



I had this problem on my Chevelle and my buddies Chevelle... It was the connectors to the fuse box (on the engine compartment side of the firewall)...

Not only a bad corroded connection, but my buddy had lost all 4 of the tangs (or barbs) that hold the harnesses to the box... Once fixed, never had the problem again...

thanks guys.

yeah i found out that the black box is the voltage regulator.
i have been disconnecting the battery first before i took anything else off.

my dad said last night to get the alt tested to see if it is bad. i think it is, since its only operating at 12.8volts.

i will be pulling the fuse box out somtime soon to check it out.

thanks again guys. ill keep you posted.

aaron

Where's the link??? :D :p :D
DOH! :clonk:
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56421

I do that with email all the time too, forget the attachments.

Well i fixed the problem.

i bought a new 3wire alt with an internal regulator. wired it all up and now she is reading 14.5 volts at idle. instead of the 12.8 it was reading.

thanks alot guys.

aaron