Well, with the help of a local friend, we were able to get the 396 into the car today without too many problems -- it actually went quite well due to some decent prep and lots of advice from all of you -- so, I thank you all yet again!

Now that the engine is in, I have all of the details to do -- brackets, carb, hoses, timing, gauges, and so on... So far, that isn't going as well. The P/S bracket that we bought from Year One that is supposed to be "proper" for the car fits the engine fine -- but two of the holes are stripped in the engine. I'll need to re-tap them or something (which I haven't done before and don't have any tapping stuff). More importantly, even if it DID mount to the engine fine, I don't see how the P/S pump would sit in it. It is either not the right bracket -- or I don't have the right pump or something... Anyone have good pictures of the P/S pump mounted to their BB so I can see how it is supposed to look? I used this P/S cradle/bracket (http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/part.asp?pid=3833N) from Year One.

The alternator bracket set that we bought (again from Year One and supposed to be proper) doesn't fit at all really. I don't know if our Edelbrock Torker intake is significantly different than the stock manifold and that is why it doesn't line up or what. So, still trying to figure that one out. I bought this alternator bracket set (http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/part.asp?pid=CQ417). Again -- anyone have any pics of how this is supposed to be set up exactly?

The fuel line hose kit (http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=SUM-G3150+&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&searchinresults=false&N=0&target=egnsearch.asp&x=16&y=19) that I bought from Summit to go from the fuel pump to the carb line comes with three different adapters -- and NONE of them fit the fuel pump. That seems odd to me -- but I checked another fuel pump (the one that was on the 327) and their adapters don't fit that either (it seems to have the same output as the one I bought for the 396 from the local parts place). So, I'm not sure what happened there. At the other end, it will fit my carb line -- but only at one end -- the other end I don't have a cap for (i.e. the carb line has two different sized inputs so that you can switch between them -- but the guy I bought it from only gave me the cap/plug for the other end). :sad:

So -- I'm glad the engine is in -- now I just need to sort through all of the details -- and realize that I bought parts that aren't going to work...

As always, I'm open to suggestions/hints! :D

- John...

the ps bracket should be the right one however did you get the other bracket for tensioning the belt? do you have a older style ps pump like the ones they used on the short water pump early mid 60's? I used the smallblock ps pump on my chevelle the line kinda snakes around a bit but it fits fine, the stud on the back of the pump slips in the slot on the back of the bracket, just go to the hardware store and buy a helicoil kit for the hole thats stripped in the front of the block it's an easy fix just don't drill too deep, alt brackets should be fine too is it possible that you've got the wrong water pump? I don't know if big blocks have a short water pumps but if these brackets both doesn't fit sounds like something else is the matter. someone didn't sell you a tall deck big block and pass it off as a passenger car motor did they? Just asking cause there are people that do that kind of thing. Jim

the ps bracket should be the right one however did you get the other bracket for tensioning the belt?

No, I didn't buy anything besides that cradle bracket. On the 327, it did have a slide-slot bracket also though -- I believe some people had said that I could use that with this new one -- is that correct?

do you have a older style ps pump like the ones they used on the short water pump early mid 60's? I used the smallblock ps pump on my chevelle the line kinda snakes around a bit but it fits fine, the stud on the back of the pump slips in the slot on the back of the bracket,

Hmmm... I'm not sure what style it is -- I'm not familiar with the different P/S pumps, unfortunately. I'll take some photos soon and show what I have -- maybe someone can ID it and give me more info. I believe the number on the P/S pump is 458533 -- but that didn't seem to come up with anything when I did some searching... The pulley on the P/S pump has "354325 ACD" stamped on it -- but I didn't find that number matching anything either.

Currently, it appears that the pump has the hoses coming out of the back -- which is why I don't see how it would slip into that cradle bracket.

just go to the hardware store and buy a helicoil kit for the hole thats stripped in the front of the block it's an easy fix just don't drill too deep, alt brackets should be fine too is it possible that you've got the wrong water pump?

I know it is a long pump -- but that was based on measuring and some help from people here. The number is "3969811 TX" -- which seems to come up as the proper water pump for a 396, although I couldn't find anything to confirm if that number was long or short. So, I think the water pump, at least, is correct.

I don't know if big blocks have a short water pumps but if these brackets both doesn't fit sounds like something else is the matter. someone didn't sell you a tall deck big block and pass it off as a passenger car motor did they? Just asking cause there are people that do that kind of thing. Jim

I don't believe so -- I do trust the seller and he did have it in his Chevelle for a while. There is a "t0401CTB" stamp on the front -- and CTB appears to be a proper passenger car block.

Thanks for your time!

- John...

Hi I just looked at my ps set up and I think I know what your going through, If your using the same ps pump that was in the chevelle the pump doesn't sit in the cradle like it does on a small block bracket, you bolt the bracket through the two holes to the front of the block ( they go up and down) the other leg bolts to the side of the block, and then the stud sits on the slot and you put a bolt in the front oppisite of the stud in back, and this now becomes the pivot, you'll see that the hoses stick out the back of the pump about 1 1/2 inches pass the drivers side head, I had to take the pulley off to get the small block bracket off and to bolt the correct big block bracket on, the tension bracket will then bolt to the 1/2" coarse hole on the lug on the drivers side of the water pump, Jim

Here are a few pics of my BB setup. You should have the long style water pump. The upper alt bracket will not fit correctly on some aftermarket intakes and that is why you see some cut off or a piece welded in. Before you start drilling the bolt holes make sure that you have the proper size bolt. The top bolt in the ps bracket that fits on the block is 7/16-14X1 and the bottom is 3/8-16X3/4. Mine has an L brace to the side of the block. The ps adjusting bracket is part # 3967420 and spacer 3967424. I hope this helps

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/redmanf1/ap1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/redmanf1/ap4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/redmanf1/ap6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/redmanf1/ap5.jpg

Hmmm... Well, a few things...

1. My pump doesn't look like yours much. :(

2. I don't have a bracket like that one. Do you have the one that I can see in the bottom picture PLUS a cradle like bracket as I linked to above from Year One?

3. I even asked the Year One guy if I'd need any other brackets to mount the P/S pump. He said no. :(

Thanks for the pics -- I'll see if I can find the proper bracket...

- John...

Hey john I've got the part numbers for the ps brackets if you need them, they're still available from GM I paid like $48 for the PS bracket and the big block throttle cable including shipping Jim

Best guys I've found for the fuel pump to carb line is as follows:
www.inlinetube.com

Hey john I've got the part numbers for the ps brackets if you need them, they're still available from GM I paid like $48 for the PS bracket and the big block throttle cable including shipping Jim

Sure, if you have them handy, that'd be good. I didn't realize that I'd need to change the throttle cable actually. What is involved with that? Is it replaced all the way from the pedal through the firewall and to the carb?

It looks like the existing one would reach no problem -- it is just a matter of finding the right bracket for the top of the intake... Maybe the car already had the BB cable still?

- John...

Best guys I've found for the fuel pump to carb line is as follows:
www.inlinetube.com

Looks like very nice stuff. What I'd like to use is this:

http://www.inlinetube.com/Preformed%20Lines/Chevrolet%20A-body%2068-72/CHE7003.htm

...but I'm not sure it would fit properly with the Edelbrock Torker 2-0 intake that I have on there. I have the Holley dual-line carb -- so that would work nicely -- but I just don't know as far as position of the carb due to the intake. On the Torker 2-0, the carb actually sits at a funky angle -- it isn't straight on...

- John...

heres the part numbers, 3967422 (you already have that)$12
14015391 this is the tension bracket in the photo $7
3967424 Spacer $3 basicallly it's a thick washer
the cable is probably a big block cable already but heres the number 336969 I think I paid like $14
I take it that you've already got the big block pulleys for the crank 3 groove,
14025185 $41 and your dipstick is 329231 tube and 3989391 dipstick
I actually got these numbers from jakeshoe on this site it sure helped on my swap Jim

Thanks -- those will help greatly, I think. I'll need to do some part ordering. I'd really like to have the car running this week -- so hopefully I can get those here in that time. Maybe going to a local GM dealer to order them would be quickest? Not cheapest, for me, but maybe I'd have them in time...

One other thing -- do I have to change the water pump pulley when I go from the 327 to the 396? I thought I could use what I had on the 327, but when I put it on the pump on the 396, it just BARELY touches the 3-groove crank pulley! So, something must be wrong there too. :(

- John...

I just check the pulleys on my motor and it clears by about 1/4 inch,I'm not sure of the water pump pulley diameter but it was one I had laying around, by the way I didn't understand the question about the fuel line on the carb end, is the carb a dual feed? such as a 750 vacuum secondary? and do you have a dual feed line? or are you trying to make a fuel line with y connectors to feed both bowls? It's been a long day and am easily confused Jim

I just check the pulleys on my motor and it clears by about 1/4 inch,I'm not sure of the water pump pulley diameter but it was one I had laying around,

Ok -- I'll have to try to find the info and double-check -- either my water pump pulley is wrong or my 3-groove crank pulley is wrong (or my long water pump is funny -- but the numbers seem right on it, at least).

by the way I didn't understand the question about the fuel line on the carb end, is the carb a dual feed? such as a 750 vacuum secondary? and do you have a dual feed line? or are you trying to make a fuel line with y connectors to feed both bowls? It's been a long day and am easily confused Jim

Sorry -- yes, I have a Holley dual-feed 3310. I do have a dual-feed line that I bought with the carb from the previous owner -- but, so far, I have been unable to link that to the fuel pump. I bought a kit, but it didn't have an adapter to fit the fuel pump (although it did have one that fit the dual-feed line at the other end). I'm fine with either using the kit and the right adapter (if I can find one) for the line -- or I have the hard line from the 327 that I could use temporarily, at least, on the 396 -- if I could get some sort of connection from that hard line to the dual-feed line (or, more accurately, I guess it should be the hard line to a filter and then on to the dual-feed line).

- John...

It sounds like the dual feed line is threaded for a AN fitting and the hard line is your regular double flare fitting, I think you can get ac fuel filters for the double flare fitting then your still going to have to get a adapter from the filter to carb fitting, wouldn't it be easier to just get a regular dual feed line for the holley that you clamp 3/8 fuel line on it? then you can get a 3/8 hard line from the pump put a inline filter in that line with rubber fuel line and run the rubber fuel line to the dual feed line, on the carb, then theres no adapter to deal with, Jim

That torker 2-0 sets at an odd angle. You should be able to use that line but would need to make a piece to fit between the T block and line. If you let me know what angle pic you need I would be more then glad to take it. The brackets you have look correct but you need a couple items.

Jim Mac: Yeah, that does sound best. Unfortunately, I paid for the dual-feed from the guy with the carb -- but I should probably just bite the bullet on this one and buy a different dual-feed line.

Thanks.

- John...

I scanned through the responses and I didn't see anything on the alternator bracket but you are having the same problem I had when I put and Edelbrock Performer on my 67 396/350HP car. The stock bracket does not line up to the upper position bolt hole. I am using a chrome bracket but it didn't line up with my stock bracket either. I called Edelbrock and they basically said that this was a universal manifold for BBC but that would not guarantee that all the alternator brackets would line up which had some uniqueness to different cars I assume for those years. I had to customize my bracket my bringing it in to my work and had to "beg" the toolroom Manager to mill the hole into a slot for me. My buddy modified his differently by cutting and welding a piece on the bracket that would line up the hole.

Good Luck.


Robert

Mine didn't line up with performer intake.Had to slot hole on top alternator bracket.Had a friend weld a washer on it to somewhat cover up.

Ok -- thanks -- I'll see what I can get done. Unfortunately, I don't have much access to anyone that could do the modifications for me...

- John...

John a dremel tool is the home fabricators best friend, or is that the sawzall? anyway a dremel tool with a grinding bit should elongate the hole real quick, Jim

one other thought the hole that doesn't line up, is that the one that the 1st bolt on the intake goes through? I would think if that didn't line up then the alternator may not line up to the other pulleys Jim

3967424 Spacer $3 basically it's a thick washer

Got this today -- it isn't what I expected. I was thinking of something else. Where does this spacer go exactly?

Isn't there some sort of long spacer that goes on the alternator stuff? At the pivot end of the alternator, I've got just a long bolt that goes into the block and then has just a nut for the other end. The alternator slips onto this -- but what prevents it from sliding up the bolt? On the 327, I had this odd spacer with a flange on it (that I don't know what it was for -- but used it just for the spacer to keep the alternator positioned). That doesn't fit on the 396 -- not enough room to get that plus the alternator plus the nut on the end. Is there some other spacer that I should have for that? Something maybe 3" long or so that goes onto the pivot bolt before the alternator to keep it from sliding in?

On other thing -- I'm trying to get the pulley off of my P/S pump still. Looks like a 3/8" hex nut on the end. Is this normal or reverse threaded? I've been unable to budge it so far and thought that I better check. Should I be able to just hold the pulley in place to prevent it from spinning and unscrew the hex nut for the pulley?

Thanks!

- John...

The alternator "bolt" is a stud with 3/8" shank on the long alternator end and 7/16" on the short end that screws into the head
The the spacer between the head and the alternator is simular to the small block spacer with the flange that you have.
I used a chrome plated 1/2" plumbing nipple with the pipe threads cut off and cut to length for my spacer.

If the PS pump has a shaft nut, it is regular threads, not left handed.

Indeed -- that is exactly the part I mean. I do have the proper stud and such for the pivot point. I guess I can do the pipe thing to get by -- but do you happen to know the right part for that? Also, what is the flange for -- I've always wondered. :)

Also -- do you know what the "big washer" (the 3967424 spacer) is for? (Could be alternator or P/S related -- since we were discussing both when the part was mentioned.)

Thanks.

- John...

Just guessing but I know there is a thick washer (spacer) about, oh say, around 5/16" thick or so as I recall on the PS pump but nothing like that on the alternator. In fact I was thinking there were two of them between the bracket and the pump but it's been a while :)

I ASSUME the flange on the alternator spacer is just to hold it in place so you don't need three hands.

john, that 3/8 hex nut on your power steering pump.
if there is no nut on the end of the shaft, the pulley presses off and on.
special puller available at the parts store for that. $30.00
maybe autozone rents them for free. just put up a deposit.
david

Ok -- I wondered about that, because it doesn't look like a nut really -- just a hex hole in there, but I couldn't tell where the break was between it and the pulley itself. The more I looked at it, the more it seemed like one piece (the pulley all the way down to the hex hole). So, that makes sense -- it likely IS one piece.

I'll see if AutoZone has a puller available. Do you also use a tool to put it back on? Or doe sit just hammer on or something?

Thanks.

- John...

Hi John, on that spacer number I gave you, if you go to the first page of this thread and look at the bottom picture, see the bolt in the middle? you can see the spacer behind the bracket, it's sandwiched betweeen the pump and tensioner bracket,
On the pivot bolt for the alternator bracket my small block spacer is the right length you dont put a nut on the bolt, you need a bolt thats long enough to go from the lower bracket into the head so you'll have the bracket then alternator then the spacer then head and the bolt should thread through all of it,
an the pump hex nut I thought the hex was there so you put a allen wrench in there to hold the pulley in place then theres a net you unscrew, then pull the pulley off with a puller that grabs the plulley by the snout JIm

Hi John, on that spacer number I gave you, if you go to the first page of this thread and look at the bottom picture, see the bolt in the middle? you can see the spacer behind the bracket, it's sandwiched betweeen the pump and tensioner bracket,

Ok -- thanks. I'll see if I can get it all together.

On the pivot bolt for the alternator bracket my small block spacer is the right length you dont put a nut on the bolt, you need a bolt thats long enough to go from the lower bracket into the head so you'll have the bracket then alternator then the spacer then head and the bolt should thread through all of it,

Actually, the proper setup DOES have a nut on the end. This was confirmed above by Dean also. The proper thing is a stud with a 3/8" shank at the alternator end (which is what you put the nut on) and a 7/16" at the other end that screws into the head. It appears that the small block spacer that I have is not the same size as what should be used -- since it doesn't all fit together. I did as Dean suggested and grabbed some 1/2" pipe to cut for now.

an the pump hex nut I thought the hex was there so you put a allen wrench in there to hold the pulley in place then theres a net you unscrew, then pull the pulley off with a puller that grabs the plulley by the snout JIm

You are correct. Someone else mentioned this above and I got a pulley puller from AutoZone today and just removed it a few minutes ago.

Back out to the garage! 11:30pm and still so many things to do! :)

Thanks!

- John...

could you post the correct picture for the alternator? As you can probably tell my chevelle is a hadgepodge of left over parts, thanks Jim

could you post the correct picture for the alternator? As you can probably tell my chevelle is a hadgepodge of left over parts, thanks Jim

I will try to take a few shots tomorrow. In the meantime, here is the Year One kit that I bought -- it shows the three pieces: http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/part.asp?pid=CQ417

- John...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/redmanf1/ap6.jpg


I've looked at this quite a bit and still can't get my pump mounted. I just don't see a way to do it. My guess is that my pump is different and will NOT fit the proper BB brackets.

I just don't see, with my pump, what would go into that big bottom bracket/cradle. Someone mentioned a pivot bolt going through the pump -- is that correct? Because my pump has NO holes that go all the way through. So, looking from the front, there is nothing on the bottom left side that would go into the cradle bracket's hole/slot...

I'm thinking my pump is just too different. Either that, or I'm missing something obvious about how this mounts to that cradle. (Which, of course, is entirely possible! :) )

- John...

Hi john,
On the bottom front it is a bolt. On the bottom back of the pump there will be a stud that fits into the slide part of the bracket. There is no through bolt. If the stud is not there you have to get one and put it where the bolt use to go. On the upper bracket there are the two bolts that go into the pump that fasten them together and one for the adjuster slide. The spacer fits between the pump and bracket at the lower bolt. Hope this makes since. I went and took you more pics and these are about the best that I can do. I didn’t feel like going out and jacking up my car but I know how it is when you want to finish up on something. Hope this helps you. :waving:

Nelson

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/redmanf1/ap5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/redmanf1/35e8e082.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/redmanf1/c7637d5a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/redmanf1/c1bb5fd4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/redmanf1/890e30e2.jpg

Ah! I see now! That second picture shows it perfectly -- and illustrates my problem. My pump does not have that hole there for that bolt/stud. It just doesn't have it -- period. I have the two lines coming out at the bottom just like that one does -- but then I have nothing next to it. No stud -- and no place for a stud to go. I see that that is what would slide into the bracket/cradle. I just don't have that on my pump. My pump must be for the SB setup only. It doesn't have that hole. :(

Guess I'm looking at either trying to find some other way to mount this -- or a new pump. Most like a new pump, I think -- but it doesn't look like even Year One sells a replacement! Chances of tracking that down before the weekend are probably zero. heh.

Although, I should be able to just tie it off in some way and run without, right? Temporarily, I could just use it without the pump hooked up and just lose power steering -- is that correct?

- John...

Autozone or checkers should carry the pump, I looked for a 71 big block camaro pump and they had it, If all else fails ask for a mid 70 454 pickup pump, they're common enough. Jim

They should have a P/S pump that would fit into the standard brackets, you think? Or did you mean something else?

- John...

Ok -- AutoZone has a pump in stock that looks like the holes would line up, but it is without the reservoir. The AutoZone guy tells me that I should be able to unbolt the one from my pump and bolt it up to this. Any truth to that? From memory, I thought it was one metal unit welded together...

- John...

The Autozone guys are correct. The pump sits inside the reservoir with a big O ring to seal it. I did mine 2 yrs ago - take the bolts off the back and you can tap it loose to put the new one in.

Warning: there is 1 or more little washers that fit in the back. Watch for them when you take it apart to put it back together properly. I believe in the valve hole there is a washer between the pump and the housing and you will want to put that in before reassembly.

Ok -- sounds good! Hopefully, this will work out! I picked up a seal/rebuild kit for it too -- just in case I lose/break some of those little washers in the process. :)

- John...

There's also a spacer washer that's used on the bottom cradle bracket. If I remember correctly, it went in the back to align everything correctly. I'm sure you could just use washers if needed to get it lined up with your other pulleys.

Good luck!

Yes, someone mentioned that spacer earlier and I picked one up from the local GM dealer yesterday. Thanks!

- John...

The Autozone guys are correct. The pump sits inside the reservoir with a big O ring to seal it. I did mine 2 yrs ago - take the bolts off the back and you can tap it loose to put the new one in.

Ok -- I'm in the middle of trying to separate the pump from the reservoir right now and can't get it to budge. On the back, I just have one bolt. Besides that, there are just the two pipes coming in. One appears to be a pipe that is permanently connected to the reservoir. The other pipe goes into a double-nut thing. Looks like the pipe is held to the larger nut with a 5/8" nut -- then the larger 1" nut screws into the reservoir apparently? Do I need to remove these? Looking at another pump that is not in the reservoir, it doesn't look like there is anything to thread into in the pump itself. So, I'm not sure if I need to remove either of those two nuts at all (I'd just remove them, except that they are rusted in).

If I can just leave them, then I'll apply some more force to try to get it off, I guess. But I don't want to do that if I need to continue working at getting them unscrewed.

How did you go about tapping it lose? I'm not sure what/where I could tap to get this out. I thought about screwing a long bolt a bit into the back since it doesn't appear the reservoir itself is threaded. Then I could tap on that maybe to push it through?

- John...

The other pipe goes into a double-nut thing. Looks like the pipe is held to the larger nut with a 5/8" nut -- then the larger 1" nut screws into the reservoir apparently? Do I need to remove these?

Yes, there will be a spring behind the one also.

Any idea if I can unscrew the larger 1" nut with the 5/8" one with the tube still in it? They have become one -- so I'm just stripping the 5/8" one trying to remove it from the larger one. But I might be able to unscrew the 1" one and take the rest with it as one unit -- if that is possible...

- John...

Maybe you can unscrew the whole deal and put it in a vice.

The big nut will need to come out and you can leave the other in.

On the 5/8 you should try using a line wrench.

Ok -- gave it a little more elbow grease and got everything removed -- then finally pryed the pump out of the reservoir. Thanks for the ideas and encouragement!

The pump does indeed have the threaded hole that I expected -- just no hole in the reservoir for it. Tomorrow I'll drill one. My reservoir otherwise appears identical to everything pictured. My guess is that they simply did some without the hole for SB applications where it wouldn't be needed.

- John...

Any idea if I can unscrew the larger 1" nut with the 5/8" one with the tube still in it? They have become one -- so I'm just stripping the 5/8" one trying to remove it from the larger one. But I might be able to unscrew the 1" one and take the rest with it as one unit -- if that is possible...

- John...

John,

Not a problem. Just losen the larger one. Very carefully remove it by hand once it is broken loose. There is a steel plunger and a spring under it. Keep downward pressure on it when you remove it so you can see which end of the plunger goes up. Also the pump probably has the threaded hole in the back, but your reservoir apparently does not. Did you get a new reservoir? If not the hole can be drilled through the reservoir. It's only very thin sheet metal. The trick is locating where it should be. Measure very carefully, then drill a small pilot hole. Then gradually enlarge it as needed. If you mess it up you can always get another at a junk yard. Good luck.

Agreed -- see my post above (I think we may have been writing at the same time). I did get it off -- and I'm hoping to drill tomorrow. Thanks!

- John...

Sounds like you are on the downhill side now, Congrats. I try to give back help as others here have helped me. :waving: