Failed Emmissions BAD, could it be timing? [Archive] - Chevelle Tech

: Failed Emmissions BAD, could it be timing?


Sk8Crash69
Apr 14th, 05, 12:55 AM
Hey guys went to inspection today and my 70 passed everything except for hydrocarbons the standard is 700 and my car put out 2345 now this is huge difference. I saw from searching that some people said to retard my ignition timing right now the initial is 16, I tuned the carb the best I could with a vacuum gauge and I am happy with the way the car is running. But with the timing I have no idea how to figure out what is the best timing for my engine, its a 350, comp cams xe274h, dart iron eagle 180 heads, 4 bolt main with stock pistons, edelbrock performer manifold and 650 carb. I mean she is finally running and Im afraid to screw it up, i want to keep it performance oriented. I guess what I am really asking is how do know what timing is best? Thanks Guys ... Also what does having this high of hydrocarbons mean, and is this hurting my engine? that is what im most worried about

Zman
Apr 14th, 05, 1:57 AM
Just went through this with my Nova last month.
I THINK Hydrocarbons are un-burnt/Raw fuel.
The Nova runs a 355, with a hugh Isky Z-70 solid cam, Victor Jr., and 650 DP Holley.
I found a neighbor buddy that was willing to run it in "Test" mode so we could dial it in.
Now, you mentioned you had the carb set where you're happy with the performance, but you'll probably need to Lean out the idle circuit a bit. . It's not a big deal to put the vacuum gauge on it again, and dial it back in.
(or just count the turns to seat the needles, and put them back when you're done.)
We also removed the air cleaner, and pulled the PCV. (more air)
Generally, the Hotter it's running, the cleaner it will run.
If you run Vacuum advance, you can try both Ported, and Manifold vacuum sources, and see which works better. Ported usually work better for the smog test, but the car usually performs better with Manifold vacuum .
I retarded the timing a bit, but that didn't really make much difference.
I also found that the longer the car ran (say 2500rpm) the cleaner it got.
In Utah, we test at 25 mph, and 15mph.
What we ended up doing, was Start the test, but run the car up past the 25 mph speed, so the test wouldn't actually start. (the machine won't test if you're running too fast) (we also left the RPM Probe off) We ran it at about 30 mph in second gear for about 2 minutes, then brought the mph down to 25 so the test would actually start. When it came to the 15 mph test, we shifted down to 1st gear to keep the rpm up. (4 spd)
It did fail the first time around, but passed on the "second chance".
Spent about 30 - 40 minutes messing with it total!
Good for another year!
Good Luck

ratrace
Apr 14th, 05, 2:10 AM
where do you live that you have to worry about emissions on a 35 yr old vehicle?

Sk8Crash69
Apr 14th, 05, 8:12 AM
Good Ole New Jersey

MalibuJerry350
Apr 14th, 05, 1:00 PM
WOW! That's HIGH! The last inspection for my Chevelle was in this past October and the Hydrocarbon count was 73PPM! Of course, with the exception of the Edelbrock 2101 manifold and the Holley 4 barrel, I'm pretty much running a stock 350. The HEI distributor has helped quite a bit. Usually, high hydrocarbons indicate raw fuel...usually an ignition issue. Make sure your plugs are good, properly gapped, good wires, etc. If you're still using a points distributor, set your points for the proper dwell angle. Set your timing for the recommended value. I'm not too familar with the various cams out there, but a near stock 350 should have NO problems passing the "sniffer" test.

To "Ratrace"...(where do you live that you have to worry about emissions on a 35 yr old vehicle?) If the vehicle is NOT registered as an "Historic Vehicle" (with historic plates) it still needs to pass inspection, safety AND emissions. Pre 1981 are subject to the "sniffer" test, '81 and newer are tested on the dyno.

Chirp08
Apr 14th, 05, 3:15 PM
i took mine to a local engine builder/car shop around here called Bitner, my HC's were 2300-2500 too, he disconnected a few vacuum hoses we had hooked up, changed the timing, and tuned hte carb, now it passes just fine and everything is properly setup. Going to be going to him again after I swap the cam, heads, etc. again just to get it all tuned in.

Georgia69
Apr 14th, 05, 3:37 PM
If your Dart IE180's are like mine, thre's no heat riser. You will have a tough time getting enough heat in the engine to pass the test. Best to show up to the emissions station with the car thoroughly warmed up, and hope they put it on the machine right away.

jtm60
Apr 14th, 05, 4:22 PM
I thought that in NJ these cars were exempt? Or is that only if you have it registered as an antique ie: QQ tags? Please enlighten me, as I am in NJ also. Maybe if its registered and tagged just like any other newer vehicle, then you have to have a regular inspection done?

DN
Apr 14th, 05, 4:43 PM
Most of the time, if you get antique plates- no inspections.

MalibuJerry350
Apr 14th, 05, 5:37 PM
I thought that in NJ these cars were exempt? Or is that only if you have it registered as an antique ie: QQ tags? Please enlighten me, as I am in NJ also. Maybe if its registered and tagged just like any other newer vehicle, then you have to have a regular inspection done?

Reread my post.

Sk8Crash69
Apr 14th, 05, 9:08 PM
Chirp08 is that engine Builder around the NJ area?

daveseitz
Apr 15th, 05, 8:45 PM
Other tricks to try
1. lots of plug gap
2. 185-195 thermostat
3. large amounts of alcohol in the fuel
4. low octane fuel
5. new air filter
6. 20 minute warm-up drive to test station.
I had to go through this crap before and used these tricks.

sinned
Apr 16th, 05, 1:30 AM
Retarding timing will cure your high HC problem however it willalso increase CO. If you were borderline before it will push it over. You should be running no more than 6-8 degrees advance for the test, remember that running it's best is not running it's cleanest. The easiest way to tune is on the 4-gas machine (which I gather you don't have access to). Turn up the idle speed to just below the high limit, that will also help clean it up.

Post the entire results of the test for more complete analysis.

Chirp08
Apr 16th, 05, 6:55 PM
Yeah, Bitner is right around Trenton, Hamiltown Twp. He put a worked 502 in a buddys 69 and that thing flys, all stock outside (even the stock 14in wheels) but he did suspension work to eliminate any wheel hop.

I recomend going there, if you are nearby..