Item 4540285810.

Seems to me I've heard this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4540285810) song before.

:boring:

Seems to me I've heard this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4540285810) song before.

:boring:

And getting to know the words by heart now. :)
Popular song in Houston?

Nice car but to bad there is no real proof that it was ever a COPO

Has everyone else missed HIM as much as I have????

"certificate from the entity in possession of GM Tonawanda Engine records".. That is the same entity that was selling the same big block engine on Ebay in two different auctions but he would swap intakes to give it a different appearance.

He just doesn't give up does he..
In Todays world of Clones bringing a Tall dollar,he could probably get more money & customer satisfaction for this Chevelle,if he just stopped using the word COPO and say it's a Clone plain & simple.
The ad description keeps going back & forth,back & forth...

The ad description keeps going back & forth,back & forth...
Ain't that the truth...how many different stories have we heard about the drivetrain? LOL!!

He could at least put the correct steering wheel on it. That is a dead giveaway.

Did that car not sell the last time :confused:

As I said once in the past - this is a very nice car - and most people would be happy to own it. Even the price is not really out of line in today's "value of clones". In all honesty, it's probably not the price or the fact it is a clone that shies people away, it's all that diarrhea of the mouth that he puts in his ads :boring:

Well Don you finally bated me into this thread, everything in the ad is true, so it's true diarehia if it's diarehia at all, and your right the price isn't out of line, it is a very nice car.

As far as your idea of whether or not it's a COPO well hmmm I will admit that to many in the field it hasn't been proven, but at this point there is enough evidence so that I don't have to take any ney sayers seriously, and I am not in danger of committing a fraud.

At the end of day I will bend over backwards to make sure my really good reputation for people who have actually stepped up and bought products from me are happy and satisfied. So put that in what ever perspective you wish.

Thank you for the compliment, everyone says the same thing, it's a really really nice car and I have done some things in the last few days to ensure
customer satisfaction, I guess I have your endorsement for any potential buyers out there RIGHT LOL!

Yes, I think a potential buyer would be happy with the car for what it is, and not for what it might be or could be or..........

NUFF SAID

irongolf,

can you explain to me why you dont just take this car to Barrett-Jackson? There are plenty of suckers with gobs of cash that would no doubt bid up to $50k for this car.

And getting to know the words by heart now. :)
Popular song in Houston?

Nice car but to bad there is no real proof that it was ever a COPO


I believe it is actually a certified NOPO!

Nice car, idiot seller, nuff said. :D:D:D:D:D

I've done a lot of research on COPO Chevelles and the vin on this car is way too early and the trim tag does not look close to any of the documented COPO trim tags I have

The 3894939 casting number on the rear end is a 1967 Chevelle number. The casting number changed in 1968 and again in 1969.

I seem to remember Bain admitting that this was a 396 car from Virginia in an earlier thread on this car yet he has this posted in the opening line of his auction.

"Here is a beautiful example of a Chevelle that has been identified as a L-72 equipped car from the beginning. The car has been through quite a bit over 35 years, and most of the history is known back as far as 1975"

If the history is only known back to 1975 then how is it he is sure it is a L-72 equiped car from the beggining?
Wouldn't that make it a numbers matching? (or restamp from Greg?)
And if it was "Equiped from the beginning" then it would match up to known 427 car ID's yet it doesn't....hhhhmmmm, strange.


Thanks Angie.

Before Bain got it is was looked at by others and it had a 454 at the time so the 427 story is just more trying to make something out of nothing as usual. Maybe he will post his letter of Authenticy by the nutcase.

Geze I already thought enough was said anyway it wasn't a 454 when I bought it; it was a 427, and the guy above mentioned that the 3894939 is a 67 12 bolt, thats not right either it's a 68 - 69 12 bolt passenger car rear end. Nuff has been said and you guys are clearly confused and have all your facts wrong, but I would glad to have you give me a call and I will straighten you out about a great many things concerning this car, my number is in the ebay ad so if you want to puntificate about things you are clearly confused about go ahead, if you really want the truth call me with a decent attitude and I will enlighten you.

Red68 chevelle~ Thats no way to talk about people who just want to drive these cars and enjoy the car without having to spend a ton of work restoring them. They don't want to do what we do, and frankly at the end of the day when you add up all the work and parts involved 50,000 isn't unreasonable, and we are planning an auction run if ebay doesn't work out. Guys like us I would never pay that much, but we can do the work quickly and professionally, they can't. The deals they may run into often arn't deals once you get into them so they go to the shows and pay frankly what their worth. The NADA average reatail for a BB 396 in very good shape is now 46000 dollars, no distinction of clone or real deal. Ebay is a BS market, but I make a lot of money on the residuals. so thats why I go there.

Texas Tornado ~ HUHHHHH "idiot" I am not going to say anything about you, but that a pretty nasty label your throwing out there, and frankly I have found that people who throw nasty stuff like that at other people are really just hurting themselves, no sweat here about your uninformed opinion.

But hey thanks for the compliment on the car that I restored, everyone says the same thing, thanks for that endorsement, I sure you are good guy deep down.

I really need to proof these things before I push the button, "I wouldn't never" LOL I would never you know what I meant

Dear JOe58 ~ I recently saw a COPO connection certificate on a EdC car that had a VIN 136379B326334 which earlier than my car, so your research is flawed

I really need to proof these things before I push the button, "I wouldn't never" LOL I would never you know what I meant

You can go back and edit your mistakes Al

Really I did not know that!

Hey Chili Boy ~ Lets look at the nut case your talking about authenticating this car.

Basically it's like this a man who claims to be in possession of records is willing to put his name, business, and reputation out there to a point that if it were to be found that the car wasn't real and it was based on lies that person who is stable and in one place for a long time, established in the community is risking criminal fraud, and civil liability to the tune of a lot of money and punative measures for less than a 1000 - 2000 dollars??? I wouldn't do it unless I could back it up, I can't imagine someone putting themselves in that kind of position for that little amount of money.

So what I am supposed to think, there are more of you guys out there that don't tune into this place that have been working in the industry and GM for a very LONG TIME! Sorry my friend I think this time the evidence is favor of me and not you and the ney seyers. Thats why I am not taking you "NO" guys seriously this time, your assertions just don't add up, maybe last time it may have more sense than my claim , thats not the case anymore, and anyway it's a really nice car!! Everyone says so. Even you say so and it is and it's worth every penny even if I were wrong, which I am not.

Bye!

Hey Chili Boy ~ Lets look at the nut case your talking about authenticating this car.

Basically it's like this a man who claims to be in possession of records is willing to put his name, business, and reputation out there to a point that if it were to be found that the car wasn't real and it was based on lies that person who is stable and in one place for a long time, established in the community is risking criminal fraud, and civil liability to the tune of a lot of money and punative measures for less than a 1000 - 2000 dollars??? I wouldn't do it unless I could back it up, I can't imagine someone putting themselves in that kind of position for that little amount of money.

So what I am supposed to think, there are more of you guys out there that don't tune into this place that have been working in the industry and GM for a very LONG TIME! Sorry my friend I think this time the evidence is favor of me and not you and the ney seyers. Thats why I am not taking you "NO" guys seriously this time, your assertions just don't add up, maybe last time it may have more sense than my claim , thats not the case anymore, and anyway it's a really nice car!! Everyone says so. Even you say so and it is and it's worth every penny even if I were wrong, which I am not.

Bye!


Yea he's such a pillar of the automotive community he advertises engines on e-bay and CLEARLY STATES HE WILL STAMP THEM HOWEVER YOU WANT!!!

Not to mention there was never a COPO car of ANY type ever delivered to Wayesborro Virginia where your car is from.

If it looks like a duck.......

You can go back and edit your mistakes Al

Too bad Bain's parents can't..........:D

Bain...I think even in one of your posts somewhere you were finally discounting Greg really having anything. I know he was trying to sell the same engine in two different auctions at the same time on Ebay. One had a smallblock crossram sitting on it and he was nuts enough to tell me it was a experimental GM big block crossram. The other auction was the exact same engine with a tripower sitting on it. You could see the crossram sitting behind it. Shorty after that he was no longer a registered user under that seller name. I wonder why ? He wrote you a certificate ? Where is it ? What does it say ? I'm still waiting for that one tiny smidgen of proof............just one tiny smidgen.........still waiting.......one teeny weeny bit.....

OH my old friend 1ss427, how are U doing today I see we are still in a bad mood since the last time I chased you off, what was the name I gave you, oh yes, "Angie" Police Woman.

Well I have checked that scenario out as well sweet heart and while you may think your on to something you are definately badly misinformed or mistakened or both.

Take care Angie

Why discuss this car over and over again, with its 38K asking price ,when there are plenty of six figure asking price COPOs that have about as much "documentation" as this one?? ....

quote..........Dear JOe58 ~ I recently saw a COPO connection certificate on a EdC car that had a VIN 136379B326334 which earlier than my car, so your research is flawed............

I wonder why Ed C dosn't have that VIN 136379B326334 listed on his web site?
Earliest COPO 427 Chevelle shown is B344xxx. Your vin is 18000 cars before even Don Yenko could get a 427 Chevelle

Chili Boy I know your story about cross rams and engine intake switching sounds interesteing, but I still wondering what that is about, was there a point?? As for the Teeny Weenny smidgen of proof, unfortunately thats just a red herring dude! I give that and then your on to the next objection, thats not what your looking for at all is it. Hey look just call it a clone and acknowledge that the guys who pay big money for these at auctions are getting their moneys worth and we are all at the same place no matter what anyone believes!

If I am right then the fact that it's the wrong paint and interior and not a frame off hurts the value immensly, If you are right it's a very nice date correct clone almost the same amount of money, lets leave it at Don Lightfoot's statement "Nuff Said"

Truthfully I am getting the impression that all of you are starting to believe me, but your just having a hard time getting over the ingrained pathways in the nuerons in your brain that were laid down the last time we had the big Merry Go Round, what was it 560 somthing posts a world record. This has to be the most controversial car in existance, maybe one of you Brain surgeons might want to just prove me wrong at this point, as I already have a place to hang my hat. What have you guys got! Nothing except circumstantial, double bologna arguments!

Goodness please tell me you guys R through yapping about this.

JOe that website hasn't been updated in a probably ... well a long time I have been looking at it and aksking the man questions for over two years.

EDC says I don't have all the records Nobody does.

Jim Matteson who put together the Pontiac record site simlilar to GM of Canada gave up in frustration trying to do the same with Chevy muscle cars, it just isn't going to happen and all these guys who do have records AINT SHOWING ANYBODY NOTHIN UNLESS YOU KNOW THEM REALLY GOOD, AND EVERYONE I HAVE TALKED TO AGREES WITH THAT. I THINK IT SUCKS!

AL

"I wonder why Ed C dosn't have that VIN 136379B326334 listed on his web site?
Earliest COPO 427 Chevelle shown is B344xxx. Your vin is 18000 cars before even Don Yenko could get a 427 Chevelle".................................................. .............ED wont put a car on the list if the owner doesnt choose to have the vin listed. My copo is not on his list and i have a certificate from him for the car.

I think the point was the guy you are saying to have such a great reputation was trying to scam on Ebay by selling the same engine twice and apparently got caught. You kept promising he had the proof and he even told me he would give the paperwork to whoever bought your car. Why won't he just give it to you and stop all our suffering ? Maybe because he has nothing ? If he had something don't you think you could have figured out a way to get it by now ? How long has this proof been coming ? A year ? One smidgen ? tiny bit ?

Nuff Said???

Bain:

Let's not forget, this Chevelle of yours has had *at least* 2 different trim tags, 2 different engines & various engine parts, has been decked & stamped, and you yourself have had *at least* 2 different identities (Asian tour groupie and Greg @ DPE)...that's just the tip of the iceburg, and all verified both by your own posts and by those who saw the car when it was for sale 2 years ago.

Please do us all a favor and fade into the shadows...

Hey Rob BLah blah blah blah blah blah blah yada yda yada yea yea yea yea, why don't just give me a call if your so interested in the truth, coz your not, for some reason you have taken a disliking to me for reasons other than your stale propaganda, it's really old man; learn a new tune Mine is the same I have restored a really really nice car everyone says so!

I want a vote you out Rob

Hey Rob can I count on your endorsement!

OH my old friend 1ss427, how are U doing today I see we are still in a bad mood since the last time I chased you off, what was the name I gave you, oh yes, "Angie" Police Woman.

Well I have checked that scenario out as well sweet heart and while you may think your on to something you are definately badly misinformed or mistakened or both.

Take care Angie

The only thing you're capable of running off is your mouth *sshole!
The only one miss informed is YOU!!
Smoke some more Crack and maybe just maybe some day you will believe your own LIES about your NOPO!!!

Fact of the matter is There was NEVER ANY COPO CAR DELIVERED OR SOLD AT THE DEALERSHIP YOUR CAR CAME FROM AND ALL THE PARTS ON OR IN YOUR CAR WHERE PURCHASED FROM E-BAY AS YOUR PROFILE MOST CONVIENENTLY SHOWS!!

So go ahead and keep flapping your ****suckers your only digging your own grave!!

later...ANGIE!


p.s. MUST SUCK TO GET BUSTED LIEING ON EVERY BOARD YOU GO TOO.....LOL

HERE IS THE TRUE STORY OF YOUR NOPO IN YOUR OWN WORDS FROM HOW TO MAKE AND STAMP A FAKE AND MAKE IT LOOK REAL TO COMPLETE FAKE CAR.......ONCE AGAIN MY MAN.....BUSTED!!!!


Bain
Tech Team
posted 12-30-2003 11:30 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would like to know how common it is to restamp and engine to make appear Nos matching and how can you tell if it has been restamped?

Al

Bain
Tech Team
posted 01-01-2004 06:20 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey guys here's one I found a complete 427 in engine very good running condition wiht the following info:

Casting numbers: 3963512

Motor No: T0324MP

By the oil filter Hiper F Pass

The pad number though looks to have been restamped possibly defenitly decked.

It seems to be less compression and was rebuilt to a lower performance HP.

ny comments on the authenticity of these codes. I was think about finding a 69 chevelle that is an SS 396 with matching No's througout and popping this bad boy in it built back to yenko specs or at least to the the near same 425 HP rating?

Al

Bain
Tech Team
posted 01-02-2004 12:36 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I do see your (nice Ones) are going for, and they are just using a regular non date matching 427, 454 block or 396 blocks with 427 cranks and acessories, not the real deal.

How about a car that had the matching No's engine long gone, but the rest of the gear still original, then ;pop in this engine of the era with the right s=date number anyway.

As far as casting number go can those be faked?

Al


Bain
Tech Team
posted 01-17-2004 09:24 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok guys here's one for your noodles here are some codes tell me what you think:

VIN 136379B326463

ST69 13637 BAL161444 BDY

TR 795 65 EPNT

11D B L 074899


Bell Housing Cast No. 3963512 B11 70

Intake# 3933163

Head # 3919840

Oil Filter area cast
HI PERF PASS

Head # 3919840

Sopposedly the head pad number behind the alternator matches the last No. on the VIN.

My thought was this is at the very least is a COPO 427 Engine from 1970 probably a replacement for a blown engine. I was think that at the very least you could call this a very original COPO replica.

Ideas on value or if it is a COPO car?

Al

Bain
Tech Team
posted 01-18-2004 05:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yea hey von thanks for that I did look all tyhe numbers, I can get the car probably for 10000, the guy is desparte, but he already sent all the numbers to COPO allegedly and they said no or some place thatt gets money if they can confirm it's status.

But yea it's feasable that it's COPO ordered engine, but I was thinking someone did a good job
putting the engine together to look like a COPO, but hey isn't a good replica worth it if it's in good shape?


Bain
Tech Team
posted 01-30-2004 08:56 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK here is the deal, I have a 1969 Chevelle I just bought VERY STRAIGHT No Rust, was restoreda while back, here si the conflict I am facing:

It has a COPO 427 with the proper heads and intake solid cam and lifters, but the car is a late 1969 Mid November adccording to the Cowl tag, and the engine althoug is casted properly for the COPO it is also date coded on the bell Hosuing B 11 70 February 11 1970.

No one can tell me if it's a real COPO, if it was it would have had to have been ordered in late 1969 with a wait on the engine, which I don't think is too inconceivable. If it's not a COPO chevelle in the restoration should I make it a COPO chevelle replica or Yenko Replica to achieve it's best market value?

AL Bain

Banes real identity.

OH my old friend 1ss427, how are U doing today I see we are still in a bad mood since the last time I chased you off, what was the name I gave you, oh yes, "Angie" Police Woman.

Well I have checked that scenario out as well sweet heart and while you may think your on to something you are definately badly misinformed or mistakened or both.

Take care Angie

OBVIOUSLY, you never watched "Police Woman" ... I wasn't that old at the time, but my memory retention is such that I know the character's part was played by Angie Dickinson, and the character's NICKNAME was PEPPER.

Banes real identity.



I knew it!!! NEWMAN!!

The problem with really old information is that it is really old and the speed of acquiring knowledge and changing ideas and perceptions happens faster than it ever has, hence "The information age" Well done Police Woman, but you know what, that was so long ago and so much info about the car has surfaced even my ideas about what I wanted to do has changed and also the reasons why the info on the engine was the the way it was has been better understood. I am a much better informed guy about the car, so all that info is just trash, means absolutely nothing other than at one time I got a straight car for a good price that had COPO possibilities but I doubted it so I had a replica in mind like a Yenko Clone. So sorry Police Woman
(AKA 1ss427) no indictment keep trying though one day you make the force, but certainly not at my expense or becasue of anything I have done wrong, but it's good practice Angie keep up the good work.

Well I prefer Angie that was the actresses real name and in my last encounter with 1ss427 I asked how the show was going angie, response what show? My answer of course was POlice Woman, Pepper huh good memory.!!! Bravo!!!

Whatever NEWMAN!

your busted and you know it, so as much as you want to try and explain away the FACTS, well keep on lieing.

its apparent in your own words your intentions where to create a fake and now your trying to pass that fake off on some poor unsuspecting Joe that has worked hard for his money only to have a low life like you trick it out of him.....BAD FORM OLD MAN,.....BAD FORM!
You might be able to cheat on the GOLF COURSE but those in the CHEVELLE community won't let you get away with it.....PERIOD!

ANGIE.


I don't know how your wife can stand to live with you.....OH WAIT SHE DOESN'T....HAHAHAHA

You go Angie!

Being called Angie doesn't bother me a bit.

What really gets my goat is the fact that this LOW LIFE just can't admit when he's been busted.
I think well over 200 people in all the various threads from all the sites he's been posting on ALL AGREE he's full of it. Yet he continues to bald face lie about what he has....even after admitting in his own posts that he doesn't have a COPO but a NOPO! Stating he "Just bought a nice SS396 Without the original motor"

Then goes on to Create his own fantasy world, about how it is magicaly now the FIRST EVER COPO EVER MADE, POSSABLY THE PROTOTYPE FOR THE COPO'S! ( even though its a NO-BAINER as to the legitimatecy of this pile of dung your selling)

HE'S SO FULL OF ***** IT MUST SUCK TO NEVER BE ABLE TO TASTE WHAT YOUR FOOD IS ACTUALY SUPPOSED TO TASTE LIKE!

NOT TO MENTION HIS BREATH!

So Newman you deffinetly are trying the old if you say it enough even you will believe it's true addage.



ANGIE

I, for one, believe every word Bain is saying!

I also believe in:
The Easter Bunny
Santa
The Tooth Fairy
Peter Pan
All Star Wrestling

Why do we keep engaging with this guy?....That's exactly what he wants. Ignore him!:boring::clonk:

I have no idea why they do this?????? to you my fine out of control friend (1ss427 AKA Angie) why are u so obessed with proving me to be a liar and low life. It's not true, with the exception of this place I have done a lot of good work thats been appreciated by a lot of people in this world, I am one of the good guys! I think IA (internal affairs) needs to put a leash on you, and redirect your efforts.

Your facts are misconstrewd and out of context and time frame, you should really take the time to work out the truth instead of your rush to justice mentality Angie. I am telling you this for your own good, stop swearing, stop accusing people of being liars and start with yourself coz thats the only person your hurting is yourself. Stop it Angie stop it please enough!

It's a really really nice car, everyone says so! Can I have your endorsement to add with the others!

I don't have any claim on being an expert, but I think some of the hesitation to adding an "endorsement" is that it'll be used out of context. I think all agree that you have a nice car, and probably worth close to what you're asking. However, I don't think anyone will "endorse" it as a C.O.P.O. car. Can you see this line added to your ad?


"Endorsed by over (pick a number) members of Team Chevelle!"


I've been watching this, and it's interesting to read. Why don't you just get the documentation and make it available? Then everyone will have to shut up.

Thanks for that Cecil, thats a voice of reason and constraint, and guess what I did meet with a classic car appraiser for another reason having to do with the paint job on the car. He does a lot of work with the classic muscle machine dealers here in Texas. His name is Jerry Henderson and was recommended by Street Dreams here in Sugaland Texas. he gave me an evaluation of the car, and seemed to feel the ball park was 42 - 55 Thousand depending on a closer inspection, and a lot more if it was one of the near 27 prototypes GM produced prior to the first shipments that did go to dealers often disguised as 396 ss cars, a dealer might not have even known unless they took a very detailed look at the car. My question is does anyone know this guy, he's been doing this kind of work sicne 1970. He claims to be in a position to research my claim, on the surface I woujldn't argue with that assertion but I just thought if I am going to go through some trouble with this appraisal prior to selling the car on the private market I might as well get some opinions on this guy before I engage his services, anyone know the guy???

How about you Cube? AKA (Sean) Well angie here's your chance to prove me wrong and get me to admit what the car is using an independant appraisal, well what do you say?

well NEWMAN!

As soon as you admit your car is NOT a COPO then I'll stop and NOT until then. Your telling me my facts are not straight but I'm only using your own quotes so it is you who is not straight and you know it! If you can't stand the heat get out the kitchen.
I personally talked to the owners son of the dealership your car was sold at, and the head mechanic who has been employed there for over 40 years and both concure there was NEVER ANY SUPERCARS OF ANY TYPE SOLD THREW THEIR DEALERSHIP!!!!PERIOD!!!
Every day you come up with some new scenario about what your car is, next thing you know you'll be telling us its a ULTRA RARE 1OF1 ZL-1 CHEVELLE!
And as far as there being 27, 427 chevelle prototypes being produced by G.M. thats just another one of your PIPE DREAMS! Do you have any concept as to how much a prototype costs G.M. to make? G.M. has never produced 27 prototypes of ANY CAR EVER!! There would never be a need for more than a hand full of prototypes needed for any car line, let alone 27!!!!


Maybe your boy Greg at DPE will give you an endorsement, but you won't be getting one from me.....ever.

ANGIE

Yes Angie you sound SSOOOOOO OBjective ranting on your personal quest to make me admit a I am lieing no good scum sucking rip off artist. It isn't going to happen, coz I am one of the good guys. No one has ever come to my door and been told a bill of goods to off the car for more than it's worth and that will never happen and it's definately not becasue of you and your self rightous quest for honor. Every person who has ever bought anyting from me has always stated that it was described accurately or better than described. My record is beyond reproach by the likes of you and rantings.

Well sir I spoke with the famiy of Baugher Chevrolet if thats where the car was originally sold, theres a bit of a problem with that so called fact as well, but I won't get into that at this time. Firstly they did sell a truck load of the SS 396 cars, secondly to remeber every car that came through there over 36 years ago after probably 10000 or so six packs is exactly why no one puts any credence in anectdodal accounts. Lists, Original Build sheets and POP's are the only acceptable evidence. Oh yes perhaps if you had the first owner tell the tale that would at least augment any of the above, and depending on who it was might be enough to bridge the possible to acceptance as a real car. Maybe.

My friend you really must sit yourself down and think about your reputation; you are hurting yourself badly, you seem to be subject to wild conclusions without understanding a time line of events and the clear motivations at every juncture, thus creating continuity of intent that you could actually judge effectively.Your guessing and not your not very good at it. Please stop hurting yourself it's painful to watch. Everyone is looking at you and shaking their heads, your losing credibility with every word. You see I am in the best possible position right now with you Chevelle COPO guys, I have no where to go but up, but you, well your going down in flames pal and I am trying to help you, but you have blinders on and ear plugs and your yelling obsenities at the top of your lungs begging me to admit something that is absolutely not me. Sorry, you barking up the wrong tree.

Irongolf,

Your statement is exactly correct "Lists, Original Build sheets and POP's are the only acceptable evidence. Oh yes perhaps if you had the first owner tell the tale that would at least augment any of the above, and depending on who it was might be enough to bridge the possible to acceptance as a real car. Maybe"

Let's see the information and put this sucker to bed. I hope you have one of those rare COPO cars, but there's only one way to shoot this horse!!!

Show your hand...

Blair

Irongolf,

Your statement is exactly correct "Lists, Original Build sheets and POP's are the only acceptable evidence. Oh yes perhaps if you had the first owner tell the tale that would at least augment any of the above, and depending on who it was might be enough to bridge the possible to acceptance as a real car. Maybe"

Let's see the information and put this sucker to bed. I hope you have one of those rare COPO cars, but there's only one way to shoot this horse!!!

Show your hand...

Blair

I agree with Blair..as with any "supercar" paperwork is where its at!! In todays age with cars bringing the money they do....With out paper its nothing more than a very clean Chevelle with a big block and that is enough for alot of people. but If I were selling a car and thought it may be a COPO or something rare ...and had access to the paper that could bring more money ( even at a cost) I would certainly go after it. Get that paper work out for all to see and end this debate. Its in your best interest not mine, I have my paperwork.

ALbert

Hey Blair I have question for you ~ How do you get these guys that have lists to show them to you ?? THey show what they want, when they want. in any manner that they want, putting a lot of us at their mercy, am I wrong about that? Coz thats I how I feel. I feel like these lists are for their agenda, and that agenda is balanced by their simultaneous need to exude credibility at the same time (kind of a conflict), and also all the certificates I see have disclaimers and no list with it, just that it's based on historical records. So while I agree with you and many others about acceptable proof I am also very frustrated with the whole thing. I feel like I am going to off a car for
39 - 45 thousand dollars and someone is going to come to auction with their buddies cert on historical records and get some guy to pay 100,000 plus or at the very least 60 plus coz the paint and interior are wrong. Am I wrong to think this way? Adam Siscoe was the last owner, and I bought it from him and he contacted EDC and received NO answer, which I thought after having some crypitc correspondences with him meant I don;t have any record of it, and he admittedly also confirmed he doesn't have them all. So I feel like I have entered the Twilight Zone and guys like 1ss427 (angie) sure drive that point home.

Has anyone heard of Jerry Henderson a noted Muscle car appraiser down in this neck of the woods. ???

Bain's preaching about credibility. I think I've heard it all now. Excuse me while I go throw up........:rolleyes:

I am not preaching, just telling you how I feel about all this after a year or so of dealing with it, venting I guess is the best word, sorry to bend your ear, you know you don't have to read it!

Irongolf,

I've never been through the "Supercar" documentation process, but I made damn sure that when I bought my 1969 Chevelle L78 it had documentation (the original POP, partial buildsheet and a conversation with the second owner - sister of the original purchaser), before I wrote the check for a fairly expensive project car.

Based on my experience with many "Supercar" people, they have been very good to me and the hobby. They'll offer tips and information even though my car isn't of the same status. I always lay out the facts before I start and my intentions have never been questioned. I have an L78 car, period. While it shares a number of part numbers with its sister L72 "Supercars" it is what it is and until I hit the bigtime she'll have to do.

The fact of the matter is that the folks that have the information don't have to share it, but in every case I've seen they have been more than happy to. They want to see more of these cars found and restored. Perhaps they and you may have rubbed each other the wrong way somewhere in the information gathering process? I'm not sure how you make peace with the history that surrounds this car and your past posts.

If your contention is that someone is holding back information to "screw" you over, I can't say that I've ever had an experience like that. Never the less, without documentation you have a great looking Chevelle that has a BBC in it.

If you have anything to support your claim I would certainly bring it forward and let the world see. Otherwise, the more the story changes (for whatever reason) the less likely you are to find any supporters.

Blair

Yea and his story has changed at least a dozen times already!!! and will change a dozen more times before it is all said and done.

Example: in his e-bay add he claims to have the info from greg ( holder of the tonowanda numbers) yet he just today says he doesn't have it???????


clearly alot of changes in his story to say the least!!!

proofs in the pooding and your peddling meatloaf!

angie.

"27 prototypes GM produced prior to the first shipments that did go to dealers often disguised as 396 ss cars"....... This must be another super secret fact from Greg ? Bain...Did you accurately describe the car to the appraiser ? Did you tell him it has been on Ebay for a week and still won't reach 20K ? Didn't it stall at about 20K last time it was on Ebay ? Did you tell him almost everyone on the planet involved with COPO's has told you it is not a COPO with the exception of one Crackpot that has yet to post any real evidence he claims to have ? Per Bain..."I am one of the good guys!". Usually the people that keep telling you they are the good guys type stuff are the ones you can't trust.....Still waiting for that tiny smidgen of proof........

Perhaps supergass,

just so you know I did a lot of research as well the car didn't cost that much and before I ran into a bunch of promising info the price I saw on clones that were well done was about the same or less than my projected expenditures. worst case scenario I learned a lot and had some fun and in acvouple of years of appreciation I could get my money back, the later seems to be the case.

One note: a bunch of people on private messages and direct to my email have said the same thing but not on open forum, I guess they are scared of these guys you know of rubbing them wrong way!

It's intersting I think.

1ss427 my story hasn't changed and this appraiser has been toild nothing coz I haven't hired him, here is perfect example of what I am talking about I ask for help if anyone knows this guy, and you just puntificate have you told him all the experts have said no it's not. I asked is this guy credible does anyone no him, and guess no one has said it isn't, they just said it's to me to prove it is. SO does anyone know Jerry Henderson or not? If so is he a good guy to investigate this independently? so whasts it gonna be help or more nonsense from yous guys in the Chevelle Mofia

Did you accurately describe the car to the appraiser ? Did you tell him it has been on Ebay for a week and still won't reach 20K ? Didn't it stall at about 20K last time it was on Ebay ?
Funny you should mention that, Clill. This is *at least* the 5th time Bain has listed this car on Ebay (1-30-04, 7-9-04, 8-4-04, 8-23-04, and now *appropriately* 4-1-05 [April Fools Day])...it even sold in the Feb '04 auction for $16,700, yet Bain was claiming here, there, and everywhere that he STILL had the car! So, he's bid & bought his car *at least* once, so who's to say ANYTHING else is on the 'up and up'??

You claim you're the "good guy" here, Bain, yet you aren't even representing the car correctly. Verbatim from the auction: "the trans was cored out in 1984, and the 4:10 rear axle and center have actually been broken several times. The replacement 427 was in the car since 1970". A couple of sYc (http://www.yenko.net) members looked at the car way back in '03, and at that time the car was a 396 car with a KK rear end and a '70 454 block! And at one time it was a 4-speed car, yet now sports an automatic. That thing has had a March '69 dated block, a B-11-70 block, and now a k-20-8 block...it's had a TO324MP block, a T1218MP block, and a T1125MP block! It's been the "original, numbers matching" block, and even a "warranty replacement" that has been "in the car since 1970". And don't forget the vast array of 840 and 291 heads...which is interesting, because from June '04 to August '04 you bought *at least* 5 sets of BBC heads! It's been a Yenko Chevelle, a COPO Chevelle, a Yenko demo, Don Yenko's personal car, and now a factory prototype. This car has also had 2 different trim tags, 1 with a January build date and 1 with a November build date!

As told by our members way back in '03, you got hung with the car, and have been trying to unload it on some poor shmuck ever since, by decking and/or stamping anything that wasn't tied down, and some pieces that were (as evidenced by your contract with Crane Corvette (http://www.cranescorvette.com/new_page_12.htm) to deck & restamp your block and by the trim tag swap). You've bascially bought and assembled all the pieces to *attempt* to make this car a something it's not, which is a COPO Chevelle...unfortunately for you, the TRUE history of this car is known by thousands of folks around the world via great sites such as this one.

A pig is still a pig, Bain, no matter how pretty of a dress you put on it...

Excuse me I didn't own the car in 2003, so what your telling me is that this car in 2003 had a KK rear end and a 396, that would be a 375HP L78, which obviously someone took out and put the 427 back in 1970 - 1974 sometime??? So I have it wrong Rob?

You see this is what I am talking about you have a lot more info about the car than your not telling anyone. This is the first I have every heard about a KK code rear end. I didn't own the car in 2003. I bought in January of 2004. I did sell it for 16000 Plus, the buyer came by and I realized it was more than they could handle I didn't hold them to it, and decided to restore it myself. My God what else does your organization know about this car that your not telling anyone?? If it's even accurate.

Yea I have changed a few things on the car over the year and a couple of months I have had it NO BIG secret. Rob I am finding it impossible to see eye to eye with you and your cohorts, why don;t we try something different coz this aint working and all it is are accusations and mindless conclusions being drawn that aren't accurate or if they are there entirely accurate.

What do you guys really know about the cars existance from day one and can prove!

Honestly I am willing to answer any question you have honestly can you do the same?

start the car

Well I will admit that this car I was suspicious of when we did thw wiring on it. Apparenbtly someone sawed off the clutch pedal at the very top part that was connected to the brake. The safety wiring that doesn't allow you to start the car without depressing the clutch had been jumped??? My wiring guy said it was probably a 4 sp. But since it had the automatic the engine was already stamped MP I just put it back the way I found it. The engine was a 512 block in 1970 which is the same as the 454, but the internal guts made it a 427 thats not surprising same block. The 5th owner said that the stamp was there since as far back as the car was in his area, I thought he had mentioned that it was an automatic, in fact he did, thats where I got the cored out info and date. SO whats the deal was this a 375 HP car at one time with a 427 stuck in a long time ago and converted when to an automatic, can you confirm this!

YOu would be doing everyone a great favor if you could!

Rob I am disapointed in you, come up with the goods or shut up, its a good car no matter what it is, I think you basically suck

A bunch of people on private messages and direct to my email have said that Bain is full of *****. Unfortunately, I cannot provide any documentation to back this up - you'll have to take my word on it.

This is the first I have every heard about a KK code rear end.
Yet another lie...the KK rear was addressed on this site in this thread (http://www.chevelles.com/forum/ultimatebb.php/topic/36/24/31.html#000452), as well as in this thread (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=90320&Searchpage=1&Main=68111&Words=&topic=&Search=true#Post90320) over at Yenko.net, in which you replied NUMEROUS times! But I guess you "forgot" about that, right?

Excuse me I didn't own the car in 2003, so what your telling me is that this car in 2003 had a KK rear end and a 396, that would be a 375HP L78, which obviously someone took out and put the 427 back in 1970 - 1974 sometime??? So I have it wrong Rob? What do you guys really know about the cars existance from day one and can prove!
Here is just one thread (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=90319&Searchpage=1&Main=58907&Words=&topic=&Search=true#Post90319) from Yenko.net in late 2003 regarding your car, and what parts/pieces were on it THEN. Just more information posted in public, by individuals other than myself, documenting what the car WAS before you started your little science experiment.

And if you're willing to answer a question *honestly*, answer me this: exactly WHY did you list the car on Ebay in late January, if you had just bought the car and owned it just a couple of weeks? No need to answer, because I've told you WHY several times before: you felt you got hung with the car, and were gonna try and unload...

How is paying 10,000 for a straight body car with lots of original date coded parts even if many were 1970 getting hung????????? the parts I have sold off have helped paid for a good portion of the the replacement parts that are better for the cars date. theres nothing wrong with that ROB you do it all the time, but I guess it's ok for you

Rob you don't want the truth you just want to be in charge with your big ego, and your BS, I didn't own the car in 2003 I sold it a couple of weeks later after I bought near the end of January 2004 coz I thought I coujd make a quick turn around sale that didn't go through becasue I was honest with the buyer, thats on the record too, but you don't mention that do ya, yea you have an agenda, I did the same thing with a 1970 Chevelle a few month prior, and that was on ebay as well, I made a quick 2500 dollars for some easy work, it's done all the time, nothing wierd about that.

You don;t want the truth your the kind of guy who would purposely interfere with a sale even if the car was being sold at a price of a very nice clone just to make yourself feel powerful. I never ripped any one off, my record shows that. You are a complete dissapointment, and the car is a really nice car everyone says so, I think I read that you even said it was a nice car, didn't you, and now you know that's true, you can see that. What do you really know about the car what R U hiding my friend, coz it's obvious your hiding something. thats a fact, and I think everyone here now knows there is a secret truth behind this car that Rob Clarely has known all along. Your probably trying to get the car cheap yourself. Thats the only explanation I can find for your attitude. This should be the last page unless you want to fess up to everyone and prove once and for all to guys like me the "little people" that you are really interested in bringing the muscle cars out for authentic identification no matter who owns them instead of just your own personal self serving agenda that you clearly have.

Quote from Rob

"There's a LOT more to this story than I care to get into"

that was in July of 2004 in a reference made to a 12-05-03 post about someone askinhg about the rear end casting date of the "kk" rearend supposedly in my car that I didn't own at the time. Adam Siscoe owned it , thats a matter of record. And Rob Knows that!

OK Rob you got the stage this car has been looked at well before I owned it by guys you know and probably you as well, what do you know that you FAILED to tell everyone on this web site and yours that you didn't want to go into????

I own Elvis. It cost me a small fortune, but after finding a good taxidermist, I now have him standing in the corner of my garage. I like to make him hold wrenches for me - but you'll just have to take my word for it, cause you can't prove otherwise.:sad:

1ss427 my story hasn't changed and this appraiser has been toild nothing coz I haven't hired him, here is perfect example of what I am talking about I ask for help if anyone knows this guy, and you just puntificate have you told him all the experts have said no it's not. I asked is this guy credible does anyone no him, and guess no one has said it isn't, they just said it's to me to prove it is. SO does anyone know Jerry Henderson or not? If so is he a good guy to investigate this independently? so whasts it gonna be help or more nonsense from yous guys in the Chevelle Mofia


I think you are thinking of clill's response. I never mentioned the appraiser. you should read more s-l-o-w-l-y!

Sure is getting hot in the kitchen....LOL

As Yogi berra would say this thread is "Deja vu all over again"..Iron goof keeps throwing out bullshi* hoping it will stick..God please let someone buy that nice old clone as the only winner so far is Mr. E-bay for the 25 times it has been listed...

Al,

ill give you $18500. and you can keep the steering wheel!
...

I will keep the Drive train as well Don and you can come pick it up, seems to me that I beat a kid up in high school named Donny is that you, hey I am sorry about that, but you were giving me a hard time.

Some of you guys that are obsessed with this car and seller[and seller alike],need to donate some of your free time [that you obviosly have] to a local hospital,and spend some time with a terminally ill person or the elderly.You may even feel better about yourselves when you are done...

Some of you guys that are obsessed with this car and seller[and seller alike],need to donate some of your free time [that you obviosly have] to a local hospital,and spend some time with a terminally ill person or the elderly.You may even feel better about yourselves when you are done...

I feel some people are donating their free time.... to a mentally ill person with alzheimer's.

Why not just close the thread? And then the next one, and the next one, and so on? How much more can you beat a dead horse?

Why not just close the thread? And then the next one, and the next one, and so on? How much more can you beat a dead horse?


where did i leave that picture????? Midnight do you still have it?

Maybe we'll get a rest now, the rain delay is over in the Master's so..... he should be practicing:D

Bain,not trying to agitate but in one of your old posts didnt you have a couple of buyers for some good coin,I believe one was a local Harley dealer or something?