Let me know, I am thinking about having a bulk of the spacers needed made up. Over half of the cost is machine set-up so getting 10 or 20 is not that much different. If I had enough that would help with costs I will have a good size lot made up. I can get the 8 spacers required made up with shipping anywhere in the continous 48 for about 25.00, not more.

Mods, I didn't want this to sound like an ad or "for sale" thing if it does I apologize.

Count me in for one set. :-)

I'm missing something! What are you talking about? Making spacers for the inside of the lower rear control trailing arms so they won't collapse when adding a rear swaybar? Are you talking about the boxing process?

Look at the pic here (http://www.geocities.com/teichera@sbcglobal.net/images/rear.jpg) , when you replace the lower control arm with rod ends there is quite a bit of room that needs to be taken up. A 1/2"ID X 1"OD spacer is the only way to make the rod ends fit.

hey Dennis what bushing is in the housing in that picture?

hey Dennis what bushing is in the housing in that picture?
Ahhh, you like that huh? They are Wolfe Race Craft, see more pics of the suspension here (http://www.geocities.com/teichera@sbcglobal.net/suspension.htm)

Give me an exact list of parts and sizes and sources to get them, and I'm in :)

Have you thought about producing the arms? If liability is a concern, just label them as "off-road use only".

denny im a Machinist send me a drawing and type of material and I'll see what i can do. ACShufelt@charter.net

The arms look like a great idea! I currently have poly and not happy! When I installed the poly it seened like the thing to do. It does not look like a swaybar could be added. Should I want a swaybar? How do the rod ends hold up in a street car? The price for the spacers seems good.

There are a few sta-bar builders out there with bars that actually work the way they are supposed to, and they don't mount to the lower arms. The rod ends will hold up fine, I run them open and they should last about 2 seasons or so. If you bought really good ends and the dust covers for them they may last forever depending on the driving enviornment. I do things with a 35 year old that no car should be subjected to. :D

Dennis your going to have a major problem with your rear suspension set up. With all those heim Joints and the spherical ball upper control arms the rear end is going to walk side to side very badly, the rear end uses those angled upper arms to locate the rear end side to side in the chassis. I know you want to remove the bind and the upper arms did just that, and regular lower arms with ploy bushings will keep the rear end located, but you have made it so when loaded to the side the rear end will walk to the opposite side of the load cause a wicked rear steer condition. You don't even have the sway bar to keep the rear end some what located.

To make what you have work would require a panhard or a watts link across the car.

Please take the time to revaluate what your doing. I have been in the suspension business for over 15 years, mostly corvettes and camaros, but I have been setting up A-bodies of mine and others for years too. This is not the way to go. Not trying to be negative on you, I just don't want to see anyone get injured or a classic Chevelle go to the drag strip in the sky.

Gee, thats funny. I have had in in for a month now and it is by far the best handling chassis I have driven in a long time.

Thanks for your concern but I have been the shop suspension/brake expert for the last 15 years as well. You don't seem to understand the theroy of how the rear axle is located in this application. The whole point of the "binding" converging arms is to locate the axle. It has nothing to do with the bushing material, it contributes to adding bind when the use polyurethane is used but does not affect it's ability to locate the diff.

I have proven this beyond doubt as the 315's I was running rubbed pretty bad with the stock arms and fresh rubber bushings. The way it sits now I have zero rub at near 1G lateral load.

Thanks for looking out....just check your tech first next time.

Count me in on a set of those spacers Dennis. Thanks.

Dennis, couple questions and some advice:

Why would 8 spacers be needed? 4 on the lower control arms and 2 in the Howe type bushings. The edelbrock arms have one covered covered. What am I missing?

Is the reason that a panhard bar would not be needed is that the stock arms are angled making it different than an aftermarket 4 link that the armes are mounted straight?

Today I just removed the rearend housing from my 71 whitch has poly bushings. It was difficult to get the bolts out no matter how I jacked the rear is that due to the bushing bind?

Advice needed I am adding a posi and gears as well as a complete rear over haul I was planning on addind a set of edelbrock uppers apon install. Cash is starting to get tight so would you recomend for me to replace my lower arms or to get the Howe bushings first.

I am also intrested in a set of spacers.

Thanks Dennis

Dennis, couple questions and some advice:

Why would 8 spacers be needed? 4 on the lower control arms and 2 in the Howe type bushings. The edelbrock arms have one covered covered. What am I missing?You need 2 spacers at every pivot point. Two in the front, 2 in the rear and the same for the other side. If you just used one spacer then the rod end would be pinned up against the bracket and not free to articultae as needed. A total of (8) just for the (2) lower links.
Is the reason that a panhard bar would not be needed is that the stock arms are angled making it different than an aftermarket 4 link that the armes are mounted straight?Correct, the point of converging the links is too eliminate the need for an axle lateral positioning device.
Today I just removed the rearend housing from my 71 whitch has poly bushings. It was difficult to get the bolts out no matter how I jacked the rear is that due to the bushing bind? Yes, partially from the lack of deflection offered by the bushing. My retaining bolts all go in very smoothly no matter where the axle is positioned.
Advice needed I am adding a posi and gears as well as a complete rear over haul I was planning on addind a set of edelbrock uppers apon install. Cash is starting to get tight so would you recomend for me to replace my lower arms or to get the Howe bushings first. I'd run the Wolfe Race Craft upper bushings and Edlebrock uppers for now. You can easily swap out the lowers later.
I am also intrested in a set of spacers.They are on the way as I understand it, I'll let evryone know. I seem to have found a source of inexpensivly made spacers so I may decide to put together a package like UMI was supposed to. If I do it I need to be able make a couple bucks for my time and initial investment.

Anyone think 200.00 plus shipping is out of line for a set of bolt in lower links, double adjustable of course with Aurora 3/4" rod ends (heavy duty). They would literally "bolt-in" in place of your factory lower links, no fab work or assembly required? Let me know.

How much of the cost is materials and how much would be labor? I'd probably be willing to pay $200 if I couldn't build them for too much less.

You could buy all the materials for the arms for 140ish, the reducer bushings run about 10.00 for the set, spacers cost me 40.00 the first time as I was in a hurry. Smarter shopping will yield cheaper spacers. I figure I can put them together for right at 175.00ish, leaves me 25.00/pair for time/investment/whatever.

Would they be any different than these?http://www.lonniesperformance.com/wolfe.htm
(third down single adjustable $205, or 5th down double adjustable $215)

I'm just thinking the extra $5 or $15 might be made back in shipping since I plan to buy their spherical bushings for the uppers (same ones you have).

Almost indentical.

Then my next question would be availability of parts... With yours or theirs, which would be easiest/cheapest to find the correct bearings when these wear out and need replacing, or if something breaks... I wouldn't want to be stuck for weeks waiting for parts if it's not something that can be bought at NAPA.

I am not sure what they use...all my stuff is off the shelf circle track stuff. 2-3 days max for shipping time to get replacment rod ends if you didn't have a supplier in town. I use 3/4" rod ends...there won't any breakage. :D

With all metal bushings is noise and vibrations created that are noticable? Is the ride quality harsh? When could you have them avalible?

You will hear a little bit of noise over harsh bumps, not too bad. Harshness isn't bad in my opinion, I run 750/175lbs springs so it already has quite a bit of ride stiffness.

If I decided to do this it would take me a week or so to be ready to ship.

I'm sure any noise and vibration will be easier to live with than the terrible ride caused by my poly bushings :clonk:

BTW, I'm looking at some different sources for materials....might be able to do this for ~$160-175 +shipping

Update, depending on the quality of the rod end total cost would run between 135.00 and 150.00. The lower cost would be heavy duty/moly ends, the more expensive price would include aircraft grade rod ends. You guys tell me what you would like.

those look an awful lot like the edelbrock upper arms dont they?

those look an awful lot like the edelbrock upper arms dont they?
Which arms look like Edlebrocks?

Hey Dennis, what happened to the boxed upper/stock bushing theory, rod end lower theory? I thought we had discussed the theory of, its a good thing to have a little flex in the uppers. Is this still your position on this matter? Reason I ask is, after the lengthy discussion in an earlier thread, I am now in the process of assemb'in boxed non-adjustable uppers w/stock bushings on the punk-house & arms, and rod lowers.

I still like that combo for a street car. I am going the 3-link route but doing it slowly trying different things along the way for future reference. The Edlebrock uppers will work nicely for the upper link when the 3-link is complete.

I have substituted a little bit of bushing deflection for rod ends in every location on the car. In it's current configuration the only thing not a solid bushing or rod end is the front lower control arm...and they Teflon. Even the steering linkage is rod ended.

Dennis68, I just came back and was checking my old posts and replys. I double checked the picture you posted, and it rasied a question. Is the piece that you fabricated for the rearend on the upper arms is it a bearing or a spacer/filler for the rearend housing bushing? Yes I do understand how the angled upper arms work on the Chevelle it is what keeps the rearend located side to side and "eliminate" rear steer, if you used a bearing or some type of spherical ball on the rearend housing end of the upper arm it WILL move side to side, because all those joints can't stop it from moving side to side. The bushing ability to move in a laterial plane isn't great enought to cause hugh amounts of laterial deflection of the rearend centerline in relation to the vehicle centerline. It is like a cardborad box, when a box has a top or bottom it stops the box collasping in its laterial plane, same as the box you have to have something to resist laterial deflection, whether that be a non spherical joint on 2 of the arms, or some style of laterial support i.e. watts link or panhard rod. If those spacers that are in the rearend housing ears are solid they are what is stopping the rear steer and allowing the upper arms to continue to complete their laterial holding design function.

Brian, the rear arms ALL have bearings...including the the axle ears. There is absolutely zero lateral movement, I have checked it and so have my tire sidewalls (they are below the fender and less than 1/4" away from the rolled edge), if there was lateral play I would know for sure. This car gets driven REAL hard everyday on all types of road surfaces.

If you are having a hard time grasping how this is possible go check out the Satchell link at CC, I know you post over there. The C4L works on exactly the same principle.

The rubber bushings don't offer enough compliance to allow for lateral movement of the axle???? :eek: Yeah, they do.

BTW, I'd love to take credit for developing the rear axle bearings. They are Wolfe Race Craft peices. Vince (mrquick) and I are working on putting together the best possible bolt-on package for "A" bodies using mine as a test mule (before I tear it apart to weld the 3-link in). So far it is by far the most solid feeling chassis I've driven yet, and I include the Viper in that list.

I put my double adj lowers from Wolf and new bushings in the stock uppers the other day and the car feels and performs great! No more wheel hop, feels more solid over bumps, and it doesnt feel like its going to "break lose" (traction) around corners like it use to. I think in addition to the bushings and LCA's, the removal of my beastly rear sway bar help make the car feel like that. Also my driveline vibrations are almost completely gone do to the pinion angle adjustment. Only doing about 85 off the pedal on the highway is when I do feel a little bit.

Just FYI

I think I would be in the works for a set of the adj lowers....

$135 + shipping sounds good to me...

What should I replace my upper bushing with just replacement rubber or poly??


Brian

What should I replace my upper bushing with just replacement rubber or poly??


Brian
No poly. Rubber is fine, bearings are fine as well. Jonny joints also work. Just no poly.

I'll PM on the other stuff later.

Why DOUBLE adjustable lowers? Is that for the addtional rod/spherical end? I mean, isn't rod length rod length no matter which end it adjusts from?

Why DOUBLE adjustable lowers? Is that for the addtional rod/spherical end? I mean, isn't rod length rod length no matter which end it adjusts from?
Easier to make, there is no magic to screwing a pair of rod ends into a length of tapped tubing. Welded lowers require some welding obviously. No real advantage to having both uppers and lowers adjustable other rhan to perfectly square the axle.

Doesn't one end of each double adjustable link use left hand threads? That way, you can adjust the length w/o unmounting the arms - loosen the locknuts, rotate the arm (ends stay still), tighten the locknuts. Presto, longer arm.

Doesn't one end of each double adjustable link use left hand threads? That way, you can adjust the length w/o unmounting the arms - loosen the locknuts, rotate the arm (ends stay still), tighten the locknuts. Presto, longer arm.
Yes.