With spring just around the corner im sure alot of us are very anxious to get out to our garages and get our Classics painted. Im starting this thread in hopes that the PRO'S can just give us a refresher coarse or remind us with some tips on how to paint your car in the home garage. Please specifiy attached or detached garage. My garage is a 24x24 detached (seperate from house) wooden frame with 16' door,a service door and a window at each wall. Iwas going to section part of it off using 2x2's for a frame and plastic attached to the 2x2's the fasten that with drywall screws to the bottom of the trusses,this should create kind of a booth. Then cover up the rest of the walls and ceiling (in the booth) with plastic. Will use box fans at two windows and a squirrel cage at the other window. Will open the service door (man door) up and attach screen there to exit the fumes and keep out bugs. Will raise the 16'garage door one section and lower in down on a frame built from 2x4's and screen. This will be the fresh air intake as it starts at the front of my garage and moves through to the back. Baddbob,Martin Sr. Sevt. Chevelle and other PRO'S would like to hear your opionins and tips on this subject because alot of us cant afford to go rent a spray booth,especially since the cost of paint has really gone up over the years. Lets do it in our garages at home SAFELY, so lets hear some tips or DO'Sand Dont's on how we can paint our cars at home safely. Thanks, Mark 1968 Chevelle Malibu 1968 El Camino

I have done the plastic on the wall deal before and JMHO and experience, if you really want to do it at home, just build a complete enclosed booth within the garage. No matter how you cut it, the best job for paint application as well as dust control will be a controlled environment. Build a complete structure including all 4 walls and a ceiling. Cut in for fresh air inlet filters and set up a filtered ducted exhaust. Hang some shop lights down both sides and this is about as close as you can get to a dust free, controlled enviroment.

I did this some years ago at home also. The REAL problem for me was the neighbors - without controlling the fumes leaving the garage, I was fine with a respirator, but none of my neighbors were. Bottom line, I had to stop & take the car elsewhere to get done.

So if you're serious, you should consider ways to filter the air leaving your garage also.

Oh - and make sure you don't have anything in your attic that could create a spark, like an attic fan, etc.

I built a "booth" last weekend and used it the first time this weekend:D

My booth is 20'x12'. I would not suggest any smaller (it was a big as I could get!) as this is just enough space for me to walk around the car and paint. I completely enclosed it in plastic (minus the floor) and sealed as best I could. Then I cut two 20"x20" holes, one at each end, framed them up, put one fan (intake) and another fan (exhaust) in each hole with furnace filters on both. Then ran duct from the exhaust fan out of the garage. Crude but effective.

WHAT I LEARNED

Check the seal of the booth by starting the intake fan and allowing it to "inflate". Walk the exterior and feel the seams for blowing air.
Once you have everything in the booth and are ready to paint seal yourself in with spray adhesive. I use some 3M on the "door" (overlapping plastic) which seals the plastic together but peels apart easily for exit and is reusable.
Replace the exhaust filter after every use. It gets filled up with paint particles (you will see it!)
My garage is also my basement, so I was worried about fumigating the house, but I managed to etch-prime the entire car with no fumes in the house, and mild fumes in the garage with this setup.

Unless you used special fans with sealed motors intended for use in an explosive vapor environment, DON'T use them to exhaust paint fumes!!.

Electric fan motors can (and do) generate internal SPARKs. Putting one on the outside of the painting environment to pressurize the enclosure might work ok since it's not in the paint fume environment and is actually blowing the fumes away from the motor. But you should NEVER put one in the exhaust stream to pull the paint vapors out of the enclosure unless it is specifically designed for that purpose. You have highly flamable vapors surrounding an unsealed electric motor not intended for use in a flameable environment. This is a recipe for an explosion.

One spark in that down stream fan motor would have ignited the paint fumes which would have flashed back into your plastic enclosure, burning up you and your house. That's why fire departments pressure ventilate a hazordous enclosure, like a gas leak in a house, not draw out the fumes.

I'm not trying to be offensive here, just making a point that electric motors, including compressor motors, generate sparks that don't mix well with automotive paint vapors. So if you paint in your garage, or create an enclosure, make sure you don't have any electric motors running in the paint fume environment!!!!!

"That's why fire departments pressure ventilate a hazordous enclosure, like a gas leak in a house, not draw out the fumes."

Actually, they have sealed fans for exhaust. They use positive pressure because it works faster than negative pressure.

I agree that you should not use a fan for exhaust, unless it's a sealed motor unit.

Yeah I know, but the point is the same for the home owner, don't put an electric motor in an explosive vapor environment.

Man, I get cold chills just thinking about that. May as well light a match.

I painted my 70 in my garage, it came out pretty good, just a lot of nibs in the clear coat that I wet sanded out. I covered everything in the garage with plastic, wet down the floors, placed a fan blowing into the garage and opened the garage door about half way. I painted mine on a morning when everyone was at work. Also made sure the house ac was off. After the paint had tacked up really good, I opened the garage door all the way and let the rest of the fumes out. I wish I could find a paint booth to rent, but nothing in this area, so I will probably do it again on my 71. Fresh air mask is the only way to go. If you are only painting one car, buy it and resell. Your grandchildren will thank you. Steve

Where can you buy these SEALED MOTOR fans for pulling out (Exhausting ) paint fumes ??? How much do they cost ??? What do they look like ??? Thanks, Mark

The other option is to get one of those portable garages. I have one that I bought on clearance at Pep Boys last month (20 x 12 x 8) for 199.00 after rebate. I am leaning toward just setting it up in the driveway and using it as a temp spray booth for all my epoxy and cutting in work. At this point, probably going to have someone apply my BC/CC in a shop booth after everything is cut in and reassembled.

Yeah I know, but the point is the same for the home owner, don't put an electric motor in an explosive vapor environment.

Man, I get cold chills just thinking about that. May as well light a match.

Not that I would ever recomend doing this but we were painting VW's in my attached garage with Lacquer while running an overhead unit heater and my friend sprayed the gun into the back of the heater directly onto the main burner flames and it did nothing but turn the flames a different color.
At the time the garage was full of fumes.

Aw man, just when I was gearing up to paint the car in a couple of weeks, now I'm freaked out about my fan & compressor.

I've already sprayed several coats of primer with the compressor in the room & a furnace fan pulling the air out...

lets hear more info please!

Well Jason, what we learn here may just save our garages,cars and lives. Maybe some of the PRO'S here like Baddbob,Martin Sr. and Sevt.Chevelle can help us on the fan issue on where to get or even rent a fan with a sealed motor that wont cause an explosin. As far as the compressor issue why not have a good heavy duty extention cord made for the compressor so you could sit the compressor outside where fresh air is coming into the garage and not exhausting with fumes and vapors going out. Or section off a bay big enough to get around the car sufficently . Then the compressor would be out of the area of fumes and vapors but you would have to frame it up and use plastic and make sure its sealed off good. Im afraid now also to use a box fan to pull out (exhaust) the fumes and vapors out of the garage. I guess if we sectioned off a bay and used a box fan at the front of the garage with the fan (blowing towards the car) pushing the fumes out,also would have to lift up the garage door (in my case a 16' door) a section or two,frame it up and use plastic and cut out a section for the fan and open the service (man door) door and use a frame and maybe screen ,and open any windows and hopefully this set-up would push the fumes and vapors out of the garage sufficently. Using only a regular box fan at the front to push air out the back of the garage. I wonder if any tool rental places has a exhaust fan with a sealed motor that we could use as an exhaust fan ???? I will have to check on this this week and I will post back. Maybe some of the PRO'S will shed some light on these concerns for us. Mark

I do think you can rent those types of fans. I'm sure I have seen them.

I've been painting out of the garage for over 20 years using those cheap K-mart fans for exhaust fans. I guess I'm lucky because I haven't had any problems. Not saying it's right, but it has worked for me.

I've been painting out of the garage for over 20 years using those cheap K-mart fans for exhaust fans. I guess I'm lucky because I haven't had any problems. Not saying it's right, but it has worked for me.
I too have painted several cars over the years using box fans and sql. cages and never had any problems. But now after hearing some of the replys on this matter I wonder just how safe they really are ????? Maybe Matin Sr. or another PRO or two can shed some light on this matter for all of us so we can work safe. Im still going to check a rental place to see if they have a fan with a sealed motor for such a use. Mark

Not that I would ever recomend doing this but we were painting VW's in my attached garage with Lacquer while running an overhead unit heater and my friend sprayed the gun into the back of the heater directly onto the main burner flames and it did nothing but turn the flames a different color.
At the time the garage was full of fumes.

Understand, and in my younger stupider days (I still have them) I've pumped gas with a lit cigarette in my mouth, painted cars and cleaned many parts with gasoline in a garage with a running compressor and heaters. I've stored my full propane tank from my gas grille in my garage and ridden my motor cycle without a helmet. Heck, I even crossed the street once without looking both ways. I'm still here too. But there are some who aren't. An neither are their wives or kids. (happened in my area recently)

Guys, I'm only reminding you of the potential danger of what you are considering doing. It's like riding without seat belts. It's your choice and your life (and your family's). I hate the mandatory seat belt laws, just on principle. But I'd also hate to have my kids or wife say at my funeral, "he'd still be alive if he'd have only worn his seat belt, and the insurance company won't pay off cuz it was his falult". Oh yes, and you can kiss any insurance checks good bye because it won't be accidental or an act of nature. Their out will be the fact you failed follow the warnings on the paint or thinner can lable and engaged in a hazadous activity for which your garage was not designed to safely accomodate. So the cause of fire will be your fault.

It's really none of my business. It's your choice to take the risk to yourself (and to your family). Just remember, when the fire inspector lists the cause of fire (hopefully NOT death) it will be from spraying highly flameable vapors in an enclosed room with a running electrical motor not rated for that type of use.

The seperate inexpensive enclosure is worth considering. And, always PUSH air thru your enclosure, don't pull it out unless you have the right type of equipment.

But all of life is a risk.

I'm done.

Do an online search for "Garage in a box". This is about the least expensive I found - 199.00 after rebate from Pep Boys.

BTW be warned also. I bought a cheapy garage and it was nothing but trouble. Lasted less than one month. Can't you rent a booth for less than $200? I've never rented one so I don't know the price. Anyways, for even a relatively modest investment of $200 you need your garage to last longer than one month before it blows down/tears the fabric. If you are planning on keeping the structure alive for more than a year you are better off to step up to a quality product. I bought a Cover-it.com (North American Outdoor Products) garage, over $1100 for a heavy-duty 12x20 but now I rest easy when the wind blows, should last 15-20yrs. With the other one every gust of wind and I would lay awake wondering if it was blowing down or not. Not worth it, IMHO.

Course I am consequently very reluctant to start cutting into my $1100 tent to add a filter housing...

Anybody here used a cheap ($200ish) garage for an extended period of time?

Like I said I'm certainly not recomending anything but I have painted a lot of cars in garages with Lacquer or Centari Enamal using an exhaust fan and I personally don't believe it's all that explosive.

Most all motors now days do not create sparks because there are no contact points in them.

But then I also heat refregerant drums with a torch to transfer refrigerant from one drum to another and I won't let anyone else do it.

Having said all that, naturally it is best to be extra safe than sorry.

Herb, what you said does make sense to me now that you said it that way. I dont want to lose my cars or my garage ,or my life for that matter. With the high cost of paint supplies now days, I cant afford to rent a booth or invest in a cheapie booth. So I think I will section off a bay in my detached (seperate from house) garage by framing it up and using plastic and I will raise the 16' Garage door up one or two sections and frame under it using SCREEN and put a box fan in the FRONT ONLY to blow or push the fumes and vapors to the back of the garage towards the service door (man door) which I will open up all the way and frame up and use screen so the fumes can EXIT through there and the windows in the back of the garage. And if I could find a fan with a Sealed MotorONLY, I would use it at the back of the service door to act as an EXHAUST FAN to help draw the fumes out. I just called two rental places in my area and and one place only has a large constuction fan and the motor is NOT SEALED, so thats no good, and the other place doesnt carry them. Also talked with my paint supplier and they told me what Herb said IS RIGHT !! about a box fan or anything without a sealed motor CAN cause an EXPLOSION and nobody wants that. Herb whats your opionion on what I said in this reply about sealing up a bay and opening up doors and framing and using screen and a box fan only at front blowing or pushing fumes out the back ??? Would this idea work OK Herb ??? Thanks Everyone , Especially Herb for explaning things they way he did in his recent reply here, Thanks Again, Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------1968 Chevelle Malibu -1968 El Camino

The temp garage I have only needs to get me through this job. I have 2 garages, one on each side of the house. The one I do all my work in is set under a very large family room. Although I will do small painting in there, the fumes are just too strong for anything more than what you would do with a spray bomb. The last time I painted a car in there, the house was full of fumes for days, even with the house windows open and a good ventialtion system in the garage. I would prefer to just do any real toxic work under completely separate cover. Once I set this up, it only has to last me 1 - 2 months, after that I won't care. I also will have an advantage that the end of the property where this will be setup is always subject to a strong breeze. With filters cut in both sides there will adequate ventilation. We have used this type of setup down at the pipe shop several times with good results. If more ventilation is required you can just feed air into the structure to create additional positive pressure.

While priming in my shop, I have also noticed that static seems to attract dust big time. As soon as I put up plastic sheeting, it is immediately covered in dust due to static I'm guessing. If it's drawn to the plastic, wouldn't it be drawn to the car? I know I read on here when someone else posted a painting at home question, to attach a grounding chain to the car. Just trying to add another "thing to consider" to the original post.

A ventilation fan rated and approved for a Class 1, Division 1 atmosphere would probably be very expensive. This would be the rating you need for the environment you all have described. Class 1 locations are areas where flammable gases or vapors are, or may be, present in the air in quantities sufficient to produce explosive or ignitable mixtures. Division 1 states these conditions exist continuously, intermittently, or periodically under normal operating conditions.

Well, I said I wouldn't bore you guys with my diatribe any more but since you asked my opinion (something I'm usually not short on) here goes:

You know the risks. If you are really honest with yourself you know that doing anything involving flammable (spelled correctly for a change) paint fumes has an element of danger to it. ANY SAFE THING you do to minimize that circumstance to whatever is acceptable to you is a plus.

"Herb whats your opionion on what I said in this reply about sealing up a bay and opening up doors and framing and using screen and a box fan only at front blowing or pushing fumes out the back ??? "

Definitely putting a fan UPSTREAM of the fumes and pressure ventilating the enclosure is better than pulling fumes out. Doing this activity in an enclosure away from your family's primary source of heat and shelter is also probably better than building a bon fire in the basement.

"Most all motors now days do not create sparks because there are no contact points in them."

Many are induction motors. Most compressors, have internal starting capacitors (therefore centrifugal switches) and do make contact sparks every time they start. Even a 12 v cordless drill makes sparks big time. With my luck, the windings of my box fan would short as I was clearing the gun with thinner. But, I've been around long enough to know that and I try to avoid Murphy as often as I can. I don't have the cahones that Dean has.

Also talked with my paint supplier and they told me what Herb said IS RIGHT !! about a box fan or anything without a sealed motor CAN cause an EXPLOSION and nobody wants that. (I love these new formating capabilities!! :p )

"I personally don't believe it's all that explosive."

Doesn't have to be all that explosive. Just exlposive enough to kill you, and/or your wife and kids. Why not explain the deal to your wife and ask her if she wants to roll the dice with you. By default, it's a risk to her also. If she says yes, send the kids to the neighbors and go for it. No problem. (I know, that's dirty pool. Sorry.)

Listen guys, I reload 200 to 300 12ga. shotgun shells every Saturday morning before I go skeet shooting. I understand the risk of doing that and I'm willing to accept it. Some people would say I'm crazy. They wouldn't keep 10 pounds of gun powder and 1000 primers in the house. My point is, do what you want once you understand the risks and make your decision from an informed perspective. I'm just trying to make you think about what you're doing. If you never considered the possibility of an explosion in your garage by doing this, you might want to. That's all.

And I challenge ANYBODY to show this to any fire marshall and have him say, "Man, that guy's out in left field".

BTW - popping the clutch off the line (just ask Don Garlits) or driving 100 mph down the strip is dangerous too. But I'd never say don't do it.:D
I sure wish I'd learn to keep my mouth shut.:beers:

P.S. To reduce static and airborn dust, mist the floor and lower 2 or 3 feet of the plastic with water. Don't ask me how I know that:D

Oh well, in that case I know that all counter men in paint stores know all about shaded pole motors in box fans. :)

:rolleyes:

Better watch out for those cell phones too and turn off all the house phones and electricity and go bare footed then strip down naked and attach ground straps to your toes too.

Better yet might be safest to stay in bed :)
:D

Real cute Dean. I'm tryikng to keep somebody from blowing himself up and you go tell everybody how I paint in the nude and start talking about your shaded pole.

Surely we can give better advice to these young folks than that? I don't know that every fan someone tries to use for this purpose has a shaded pole motor. They may not either. Wait a minute, I'm talking to a man who uses a torch to heat a freon tank. Nevermind.:p

How'd you know about the grounds strap on my toes?:o

I agree, safer is better but.... by the time you bought all the explosion proof stuff you could of had 5 cars painted. I painted for a long time using pot bellied stoves, torpedo heaters, overhead gas heaters, you name it. The safest I believe was a heater made for a motor home that had an enclosed burner and drew air from outside. I made some ductwork to go under the car with a big squirrel cage at the other end, kinda worked like a downdraft. Regular fans in front of the garage door with a cardboard "frame" worked well too. Wetting the floor and out past the doors helped to keep dirt down. Try not to spray at night, BUGS LOVE paint fumes!!!
I am not saying any of these ways are safe but I've been in some bodyshops that were not as safe as my garage, including the one I work in now. That is until we had a state of the art booth installed!! Agree or not guys are gonna do it, just use some common sense and be careful!!! My .02
About static.. all the sanding and rubbing on these cars causes static, seems if wiped with a damp rag it gets rid of some of this. Tryed the chain thing, does it work???? Disconnecting the battery seems to help also. We used to have a static gun that really worked, for you guys that have painted rubber bumpers know what I'm talking about, it had some kinda radioactive stuff in it or somethin?. I know when we bought it was very expensive and came packaged like a bomb!!!

Real cute Dean. I'm tryikng to keep somebody from blowing himself up and you go tell everybody how I paint in the nude and start talking about your shaded pole.

Surely we can give better advice to these young folks than that? I don't know that every fan someone tries to use for this purpose has a shaded pole motor. They may not either. Wait a minute, I'm talking to a man who uses a torch to heat a freon tank. Nevermind.:p

How'd you know about the grounds strap on my toes?:o


paranoia runs rampant again :D

I think I know her.

Ok, the pros will hate this, but I painted Ol Paint myself in my garage and I can share some experience.

I tried the plastic on the walls, exaust fan, close all the doors method and trust me, don't do it !!! Without serious exhaust fans and ventilation you will have nothing but overspray in the air and enough fumes to kill you quick !!!

After I painted the front end pieces I realized that the closed garage was not going to work !!!

My solution, I opened all the doors and windows and went for it !!! I covered everything I didn't want overspray on, painted fast, and got outside before the fumes saturated my resperator.

Yea, I know, I'm a bad man, but I painted my elky and it came out pretty good for my first paint job !!!

I had some dust nibs to deal with but since I used single stage urethane and color sanded it that fixed the slight orange peel and dust nib issue all at the same time.

Would I do it again, NO! If painting cars on a regular basis I would only use a proper paint booth with a fresh air supply, for better results and to keep from inhaling any of those killer isos.

DISCLAIMER, I don't recommend anybody painting anywhere but a proper paint booth !

But, an open garage worked for me.

OK, you can flame me now !

That's why I am using a stand alone shelter that will be vented all the way around for all my epoxy and cut in work [back of trunk lid/trunk frame, door jambs/back of doors, inside fenders]. All I will have to have done in the booth will be mask and paint exterior after reassemble and align. This is how I have done my last 3 cars and each one comes out flawless and detailed when finished.

Well fellows,after doing some research I found the answer on how to EXHAUST our PAINT FUMES and VAPORS SAFELY. I went to AutobodyStore.com under paint,ten click onto ventilation. There they are, Jenny EXPLOSION PROOF fans. In blade size 16" for $387.95 (the cheapest one) 16" variable speed for $410.70, 20" for $398.35, 20" variable speed for $475.70, and 24" variable speed for $532.50. Now the problem is : Who can afford these with the high cost of paint supplies ??? I cant right now. This is the fans that rental places should have. But none in my area. I would gladly rent one. Mark

Be careful, but the odds of having a flameup caused by a spark IF THE VENTILATION IS GOOD will be minimal. If the buildup of fumes gets to concentrated then the odds go way up. If you're going to do this with regular box fans have a half doxen or more depending on size and airflow, this way your airflow will be greater and the concentration of fumes will be less. Let the fans run for awhile prior to painting and to try and get an idea how well the air is moving. Give your paint plenty of time between coats and get your body out of the spray area when not painting, this will give the fumes a chance to get out of your garage and your paintjob. Paint dries slow in poor airflow. You don't want a cloud that takes forever to vent- your fans need to keep up with the amount of material being released in the air or very close to that.

I wonder if anyone makes a pneumatic fan? Shouldn't be any sparks from that!

Well after doing reserch I changed my shop around...

Old setup: Air entering through filters under the big garage door, fumes flowing past the cycling compressor, exiting through a squirrel cage motor at back door.

This worked great but the spark risk was there, so...

New setup: Air pushed into the shop, through a filter with the squirrel cage. Compressor moved under house (door sealed with duct tape), fumes exit out rear door through a filter.

To put it in a nutshell, keep the fumes away from any potential sparks.

I'd also like to add that if you haven't got your gun yet, I'm using a sharpe platinum & I don't even know what a regular gun is like, but when I spray the whole car with primer there is barely any overspray in the whole room. It is a very low output gun, great for the garage painters.

With all this talk about exhaust fans and flammable fumes, what about a belt driven blower? Not hard to come up with one of those!!! Motor can be whatever, it's outside the exhaust stream.

That is how most industrial fume hoods and exhaust fans I have seen are, including the Devilbiss booth here at work.

Well after doing reserch I changed my shop around...

Old setup: Air entering through filters under the big garage door, fumes flowing past the cycling compressor, exiting through a squirrel cage motor at back door.

This worked great but the spark risk was there, so...

New setup: Air pushed into the shop, through a filter with the squirrel cage. Compressor moved under house (door sealed with duct tape), fumes exit out rear door through a filter.

To put it in a nutshell, keep the fumes away from any potential sparks.

I'd also like to add that if you haven't got your gun yet, I'm using a sharpe platinum & I don't even know what a regular gun is like, but when I spray the whole car with primer there is barely any overspray in the whole room. It is a very low output gun, great for the garage painters.
Jason, you said fumes exit out the rear door through a fiter. What kind of filter ???

I use furnace filters from the local hardware store. They come in different sizes & are dirt cheap.

I have a 'frame' made of 2x2 that fits into my rear 'man door' of the shop. it has clear plastic on it & a hole at the bottom for the fumes to exit, I'll just duct tape the filter to the hole. Just trying to stop some of the overspray from making it outside.

Ok guys u all think this will work. I have a squirrel cage with a explosion proof motor on it. From a paint mixing cabinet. Was going to put it in front of the car to pull the overspray out. Going to run some duct work to a opening in my garge. With filtes before and after. And going to have water misting on the out side. This shold work ok right? Only prob is it does not spin real fast. Can i get a bigger pully on the squirrel to make it spin faster? Now what should be done about my commprosser. I can not put it out side. Can built a box around it and seal it up some how.. And I have heard that lights sometimes can set fumes off this true? Thanks for the help. O and also I have the hobby air fresh air mask. Do I have to worrie about that being on? Was going to put it inside with the through wall kit they sell.

Why not look into renting a spray booth instead? Like some have already mentioned.

Well before I would rent one I would just try to use the one at the shop I work at. But I know if i asked he would get ****ed I'm doing side work.. Theres not to many shops around here that will let u rent them. Cuz thats work they could be doing.. And they feel like u are steal work from them. So y let u rent it.I'm doing this one car in my garage. I'm waiting for my shop to be built. And we are getting a booth than. Just asking if this would do for now.

Ok guys u all think this will work. I have a squirrel cage with a explosion proof motor on it. From a paint mixing cabinet. Was going to put it in front of the car to pull the overspray out. Going to run some duct work to a opening in my garge. With filtes before and after. And going to have water misting on the out side. This shold work ok right? Only prob is it does not spin real fast. Can i get a bigger pully on the squirrel to make it spin faster? Now what should be done about my commprosser. I can not put it out side. Can built a box around it and seal it up some how.. And I have heard that lights sometimes can set fumes off this true? Thanks for the help. O and also I have the hobby air fresh air mask. Do I have to worrie about that being on? Was going to put it inside with the through wall kit they sell.
If you have a squirrel cage with an EXPLOSION PROOF MOTOR on it, that will definitley help pull out the fumes. You could take a couple of box fans at the INTAKE ONLY (incoming fresh air) BLOWING or PUSHING air through to the squirrel cage to help EXIT FUMES quicker. On your compressor issue, why cant you take your compressor outside ?? On my compressor I was going to have a heavy duty extention cord made of a larger size to do this properly and set the compressor just outside my garage where it will be out of the way and be in fresh air. When my compressor motor KICKS ON I can see a slight spark inside the motor so I dont want this near (inside the shop) where all the fumes and vapors are and even though doors or windows may be open because if circumstances are right there could be an INVATATION for an EXPLOSION and I dont want that. If you can section a big enough spot off around you compressor in your garage and seal it off so fumes and vapors could not get in then the next question is , is there a window close by your compressor so that it can get fresh air ??? You would have to preform a test SAFELY to see if this sectioning off was in fact FUME and VAPOR proof, maybe by pumping up your compressor first, then SHUT THE SWITCH OFF or UNPLUG COMPRESSOR so that it cant kick back on ,and spray some paint maybe on a practice piece in that area where you are going to spray the car. Then have a helper go into the sectioned off area where you seperated your compressor from your paint booth area and see if they can smell any FUMES and VAPORS,if so its NOT FUME PROOF meaning NOT SAFE. On any paint jobs I did I always had my compressor outside . Mark

you can get the fans at any elec. surply store/ construction surplier/home improv store..etc... the 40 buck the fan cost over a reg. fan is well worth it...

Around here we have a bunch of places called "Your Own Garage". Basically you can rent just about any tools and buy supplies, plus rent workspace. Paintbooths are definately available for rent, just not sure of the price. I assumed there were similar places all over!

Guys,

I pressurized my garage booth. Makes it easier to filter the air source for dust rather than trying seal all the spots the air will enter the booth by causing a vacume. Always keep any motor outside the booth in a fresh air area.

you can get the fans at any elec. surply store/ construction surplier/home improv store..etc... the 40 buck the fan cost over a reg. fan is well worth it...
Bowtie6872 , do you mean you can get the BOX FANS with the EXPLOSION PROOF MOTORS for $40.00 each ??? If so , that is very reasonable and GREAT news . I will be checking in my area at the Electrical Supply Store for these. When I find out I will let everyone know here. Mark

you can get the fans at any elec. surply store/ construction surplier/home improv store..etc... the 40 buck the fan cost over a reg. fan is well worth it...
Well everyone, I checked every Electrical Supply Company , Hardware Stores, Tool Rental Company, and Lowes and not any of these places in my area carry box fans with explosion proof (sealed) motors. I would like to know the company or place along with a ligit phone number ,that bowtie6872 says that you can get these type of fans at any electrical supply store , cause they sure are not around my area anywhere. How about it bowtie6872 ???? If you are reading this can you hook us up ??? Mark

Ok got my blower set up. The motor is a explosion proof motor. Going to have one of them things that would hook up to a dryer that goes out side. Than going to have water spraying on the out side. To try to catch some of the paint. This thing pull dust from about a foot away on the ground. LOL . What kind of filters u all thing would work best? There are pics of 2 of my cars in there to if u all want to look.. 71 chevelle and 85 z28....
hope this works
http://au.f1.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/jsn6776/lst?&.dir=/blower+%26+sealed+motor+set+up&.src=bc&.view=l

Ok got my blower set up. The motor is a explosion proof motor. Going to have one of them things that would hook up to a dryer that goes out side. Than going to have water spraying on the out side. To try to catch some of the paint. This thing pull dust from about a foot away on the ground. LOL . What kind of filters u all thing would work best? There are pics of 2 of my cars in there to if u all want to look.. 71 chevelle and 85 z28....
hope this works
http://au.f1.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/jsn6776/lst?&.dir=/blower+%26+sealed+motor+set+up&.src=bc&.view=l
You mean flexible dryer vent. Cant click on to your URL, nothing comes up.

Yeah but its the alum kind.. Going to get the one for paint fumes and one that does not ripe easy. lets see if this works.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jay_a28/my_photos

You won't get an adequate amount of airflow through a dryervent type hose. You need a much larger amount of air flowing through your spray area to adequately remove the fumes. Don't paint unless you get a good amount of airflow. Are you actually talking about a 4" diameter dryervent hose?

no I got 6 inch. But going to go up to 8. I tested it out today. And it works. nothing like the down draft booth we have at work. But it does pull the over spray out.

Looks like 6" or 7" flex duct attached to a belt drive furnace blower in the pictures.

Should move quite a bit of air but I'm thinking probably not enough for painting, might have to stop spraying now and then to let the air change.

I guess you'll find out when you try it.

{edit} doh, I didn't see the 6" you posted before I posted :o

If I were you, I would use at leat 10" flex duct.

Be careful! I'f you're having problems seeing while you paint you've got way to much in the air. I remember doing Centari enamel jobs as a kid in a one car garage with a cloud so bad I couldn't see! You don't want to put your body through this kind of torture believe me! I'm sure I've taken many years off my lifespan from stupid stuff like this. Be careful! In no way can I believe your setup is adequate for doing a complete paintjob.

Yeah I have been there to not fun. I sparyed some paint today jus to test it out. I think I'm going to section half my garage off.Have 3 1/2 car with 9 foot high cellings. It did suck paint out. Were it comes out of the wall if u put your hand in front of it it will push it away. So i think if i do that it will help with a fan in blow air in(filtered) This is just a temp thing . I have 2 cars i have to paint for a show comeing up. After that I hope my shop will be close to being done. Just got the premits to start building. And we will have a booth

Here's my experience with the "Garage setup".

SETUP
Two weekends back I etch-primed my 68 using about 1 Gallon (RTS) of PE990 (SW Etch Primer). My booth is 20x11x7 (barley large enough). I used 2 20" box fans from the Wal Mart, one intake, one exhaust (I am now aware of the risks), both filtered with mid-quality furnace filters. The exhaust "pipe" is a 10' piece of 6mil plastic I rolled up and taped to make a tube. Not sure if it matters, but I used a conventional gun and my garage/basement is 1200 sqft total.

RESULTS
So after 45 minutes of painting I could still see fine, there was virtually no overspray hanging in the booth. The exhaust filter was full of material, but air was still circulating. My wife walked down into the basement and turned the regulator down for gun cleaning and mentioned only mild fumes. I didn't catch a wiff of odor through the respirator, and the fumes were gone after leaving the doors open overnight...

I know that I am risking things with the exhaust, so I am modifying the booth to have two intake fans and remove the exhaust fan so there are no spark sources directly in the path. I'm not suggesting that you use my methods, just take my experience into consideration. Of course, my bottom line is the only 100% safe way to paint your car is to let someone else do it for you...;)

'Tis true that the safest way is to have someone else paint your car. Barring that, a $40K plus downdraft booth or $200. per day booth rental is the best way to go.

If either of the above choices were practical or affordable for most hobbyists, we wouldn't be having this discussion. So, just how safe do you want to be or how much can you afford in your current circumstances?

Most of the important consderations have already been mentioned. Don't have the compressor in the painting area. No open flames. As much filtered ventilation as possible and dust control. Dust control is important, but don't lose sleep over it. I've never seen a garage paint job that didn't need some colorsanding and buffing.
So, don't get anal about a few dust nibs.

All the paranoia about possible sparks from compressors and fans, but no one has mentioned the risk of sparks from lights. :-)

I have a 20'X21' double carport that I've enclosed on three sides that meets building codes. I've fabricated temporary "doors" with four 20"X25" furnace filters for the front and I can convert to a paint "booth" in about 45 minutes or less. I use two 20" box fans in the back wall for exhaust and stack three furnace filters before each fan to catch visible overspray to keep the neighbors at bay. I use six 2-bulb 40W shop light fixtures for lighting. I run an air hose from the compressors in the garage to the carport when I'm painting.

Technically, there are some risks to my setup, but not enough for me to ever give it an iota of concern. A little common sense goes a long ways.

'Tis true that the safest way is to have someone else paint your car. Barring that, a $40K plus downdraft booth or $200. per day booth rental is the best way to go.

If either of the above choices were practical or affordable for most hobbyists, we wouldn't be having this discussion. So, just how safe do you want to be or how much can you afford in your current circumstances?

Most of the important consderations have already been mentioned. Don't have the compressor in the painting area. No open flames. As much filtered ventilation as possible and dust control. Dust control is important, but don't lose sleep over it. I've never seen a garage paint job that didn't need some colorsanding and buffing.
So, don't get anal about a few dust nibs.

All the paranoia about possible sparks from compressors and fans, but no one has mentioned the risk of sparks from lights. :-)

I have a 20'X21' double carport that I've enclosed on three sides that meets building codes. I've fabricated temporary "doors" with four 20"X25" furnace filters for the front and I can convert to a paint "booth" in about 45 minutes or less. I use two 20" box fans in the back wall for exhaust and stack three furnace filters before each fan to catch visible overspray to keep the neighbors at bay. I use six 2-bulb 40W shop light fixtures for lighting. I run an air hose from the compressors in the garage to the carport when I'm painting.

Technically, there are some risks to my setup, but not enough for me to ever give it an iota of concern. A little common sense goes a long ways.
Vettfella, where do you put your furnace filters ?? Do you attach it to the back of the fan somehow ?? Or what ??

Vettfella, where do you put your furnace filters ?? Do you attach it to the back of the fan somehow ?? Or what ??
By the way, Herb Sr. did mention about the LIGHTS situation.

By the way, Herb Sr. did mention about the LIGHTS situation.
But the way to handle that is by turning all the lghts on before you start spraying and after finished painting open up doors and let it air out ,then turn off lights.

Vettfella, where do you put your furnace filters ?? Do you attach it to the back of the fan somehow ?? Or what ??

I have the fans mounted about 4-feet from the floor. I fabbed a 21"X26"X8" frame between the rear wall studs that that serves as the shelf for each fan. I placed little 1"X1" strips around the inside the rear lip of the frame work. The thickness of the three filters is enough to press them gently against the back of the fan and the 1" strips keep them from falling out. I left the top of the frame open, so the filters can be slid in/out with no problem. The front of the fan is pressed gently against the outer screen.

Does that make sense?

I have the fans mounted about 4-feet from the floor. I fabbed a 21"X26"X8" frame between the rear wall studs that that serves as the shelf for each fan. I placed little 1"X1" strips around the inside the rear lip of the frame work. The thickness of the three filters is enough to press them gently against the back of the fan and the 1" strips keep them from falling out. I left the top of the frame open, so the filters can be slid in/out with no problem. The front of the fan is pressed gently against the outer screen.

Does that make sense?
Vettefella, can you post a pic.on your set-up ??

Yes, your compressor should be either outside while spraying any paint supplies (if compr.cord is too short,have a extention cord made up by a quailified person) cord must be of the appropriate gauge,or if the compressor is in garage while spraying ,that section must be sealed off so no fumes and vapors can enter the section where the compressor is,only fresh air. I would think that the compressor outside by way of the proper extention cord would be the easiest and probably the safest. I am still trying to find box fans with sealed motors at a resonable price we all can afford,but so far no luck. Bowtie6869 said on a reply to this thread that you could get them for around $40.00 at Electrical Supply and at other places,but when I asked him to post some places that he knew of for that price,he never replyed back. I am waiting for Tractor Supply and Lowes to get theirs in and I will see what they have and will post a reply back. Mark

Looking back a few posts, Bowtie6869 said this: "the 40 buck the fan cost over a reg. fan...". I don't think he's saying the explosion proof fan only cost $40 but rather $40 more than a regular fan.
Hope this helps.

By the way I'll tack on another related question: I'm planning a detached garage with a bay sectioned off for painting. How can I make it a down draft?

Also the blower in the picture is an old belt drive furnace blower.
{edit}
However the original furnace motor has been replaced with an explosion proof motor.

Original belt drive furnace motors DO have a set of contacts inside as opposed to a cheap box fan motor that has no internal switching.

You could try contacting a local volunteer fire company. They may have replaced sealed unit exhaust fans and have them sitting around gathering dust. Most would be willing to sell surpluss for $$.

The fact you guys are thinking this stuff through is GREAT!

Found this one on spraygunworld.com for $50. Say to be used for removing odor and fumes...no mention of whether it is sealed or not...

http://www.spraygunworld.com/Database/BB/TN-BB-3000.jpg

http://www.spraygunworld.com/Information2/BlueBlower.htm

BLUE BLOWER UNITS - The Blue Blower is an inexpensive yet powerful air moving tool that can be set up anywhere quickly with air flowing in any direction you want. It delivers a powerful blast up to 30 ft. away to cool people, remove odors and fumes, and to freshen the air.
• Three speed settings - 200-250-300 CFM on BB3000 and 1 speed on BB1000 at 300CFM
• (2) built-in 15 Amp grounded receptacles for power tools, lights, heating accessory, etc.
• Weighs only 8 lbs
• 115V permanently lubricated motor
• 12 ft. heavy-duty power cord
• Heavy duty power switch

Found this one on spraygunworld.com for $50. Say to be used for removing odor and fumes...no mention of whether it is sealed or not...

http://www.spraygunworld.com/Database/BB/TN-BB-3000.jpg

http://www.spraygunworld.com/Information2/BlueBlower.htm

BLUE BLOWER UNITS - The Blue Blower is an inexpensive yet powerful air moving tool that can be set up anywhere quickly with air flowing in any direction you want. It delivers a powerful blast up to 30 ft. away to cool people, remove odors and fumes, and to freshen the air.
• Three speed settings - 200-250-300 CFM on BB3000 and 1 speed on BB1000 at 300CFM
• (2) built-in 15 Amp grounded receptacles for power tools, lights, heating accessory, etc.
• Weighs only 8 lbs
• 115V permanently lubricated motor
• 12 ft. heavy-duty power cord
• Heavy duty power switch
GREAT JOB RESEARCHING !! Sapperox, I tried calling this place yesterday morning before I left for work and they werent open yet. They are on (PST) zone. I will try them again this evening after work and ask them if the motor is a sealed unit or not. Man, if this unit is safe for removing fumes and vapors like they say it is,and if its only $50.00 like you said,(I couldnt find the price) and it being 3-speeds then we got ourselves a solved problem and at a very affordable price if thats right. Thanks Sapperox for taking the time to research and to POST your results here. Its Appreciated very much. Mark

We throw away a lot of old DD furnace blowers so you might try hitting a few HVAC shops back junk pile.

A 5 ton furnace blower has a capacity of 2,000 CFM.

U better get about 4 or 5 of them blue blower things. They are not that strong. Guy at my work bought one. Could not feel the air blowing from about 5 ft away.. Anyways my set up did not work as weel as i thought it would. The vent hose and that wood front i made is to small. And the filter gets cloged up real fast. So I'm going to half my garage. Than going to make a hole in the wall mount the blower to it.And built a open box out of 2 by4's than put the fitlers around it.I think this will work alot better.

Dean were u talking about my set up? The motor on mine I got from a paint mixing mechine. Its a sealed motor

GREAT JOB RESEARCHING !! Sapperox, I tried calling this place yesterday morning before I left for work and they werent open yet. They are on (PST) zone. I will try them again this evening after work and ask them if the motor is a sealed unit or not. Man, if this unit is safe for removing fumes and vapors like they say it is,and if its only $50.00 like you said,(I couldnt find the price) and it being 3-speeds then we got ourselves a solved problem and at a very affordable price if thats right. Thanks Sapperox for taking the time to research and to POST your results here. Its Appreciated very much. Mark
Well, I called last night and these blue blower units are pretty small, 12 inches x 12 inches. for $48.60 each. And the guy said that they were NOT EXPLOSION PROOF, so I guess its back to the hunting grounds. Mark

Dean were u talking about my set up? The motor on mine I got from a paint mixing mechine. Its a sealed motor
Yes and I knew you had replaced the motor with an explosion proof motor but it didn't sound like I knew that in my post, did it. sorry :o
(I went back up and edited it)

I don't know what the horse power of the new motor is but you could probably use that motor on a larger blower and speed it up to it's max. amp draw to get more CFM

Yeah i'm looking for a bigger blower now. But i think this will do. I know i can stand on the other side of my garage (24 feet away) and it will blow your hair.Just have to set it up another way... No harm done was just asking if u were taking about mine.

hey ElCamino68Elky see if u can find any body shops or any jobbers getting rid?throwing away a old mixing staion. Than u can use a squrial cage or hell u can get on of them big fans thats belt drive. And hook that up to it. Thats how I got mine from a body shop.

Thanks Bodyman9174, Im going to the Flea Market in the morning to see what I can find in the way of fans and blowers. Mark

Still no luck yet finding a fan with a SEALED MOTOR at a decent price. But I am still trying and researching this matter and when I find the answer to this ,I will post back with my findings. Thanks, Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------1968 Chevelle Malibu -1968 El Camino

Here's the most cost effective way to do it. Do all your body work, prep work, etching, and priming at home. Then trailer the whole thing to someone like Maaco. They will spray anything you want, with whatever topcoat you want, and the finished job will be ten times better than any novice can accomplish in his garage. Plus it's warrantied. The local Maaco quoted me $650 to spray a single stage topcoat, paint included. I looked at some of their other work, and it was very good, except for the prep and tape work. This is of no concern to me because I will be dismantling the entire car and doing my own taping.
That'a alot better than the $5500 the local body shop wanted to do the work, and the prep work still wouldn't be as good as what I can do at home.

Here's the most cost effective way to do it. Do all your body work, prep work, etching, and priming at home. Then trailer the whole thing to someone like Maaco. They will spray anything you want, with whatever topcoat you want, and the finished job will be ten times better than any novice can accomplish in his garage. Plus it's warrantied. The local Maaco quoted me $650 to spray a single stage topcoat, paint included. I looked at some of their other work, and it was very good, except for the prep and tape work. This is of no concern to me because I will be dismantling the entire car and doing my own taping.
That'a alot better than the $5500 the local body shop wanted to do the work, and the prep work still wouldn't be as good as what I can do at home.

Weird because around me nobody, not even maaco, will warranty a job if they did not do the prep and prime. Most shops around here wont do it all unless they do the prep and prime because if there are issues like lifting, bubbling, etc. they get tied up in drama and lawsuits trying to prove it was your fault or atleast prove it was not theirs. I've spoken to 2 maacos and 4 body shops, all gave me the same answer. I suppose you could get around this with a signed document stating that you would not hold them liable but then the concern there is - how good of a job are they going to do and how much real effort will they put forth knowing that no matter what, they wont be held liable for paint failures.

Weird because around me nobody, not even maaco, will warranty a job if they did not do the prep and prime. Most shops around here wont do it all unless they do the prep and prime because if there are issues like lifting, bubbling, etc. they get tied up in drama and lawsuits trying to prove it was your fault or atleast prove it was not theirs.

Sounds logical... I painted one of my cars this way, but it was a long time ago. I did all the body work/primer and drove it too Miracle (like Maaco, etc) with no trim/bumpers/etc (I did have the taillights in loosely, then removed them when I got to the shop)...

They did a final sand/cleaning/prep and then a sealer then the paint...

Of course, that was about 11 years ago...

Still no luck yet finding a fan with a SEALED MOTOR at a decent price. But I am still trying and researching this matter and when I find the answer to this ,I will post back with my findings.

If you have some fabrication skills/ welding equipment, couldn't you remove the box fan motor and place the fan and a pulley on the shaft, then run a belt to a separate electric motor (out of the fumes)?

I know my Packrat grandfather used to have tons of motors and pulleys lying around... Seems you could modify an inexpensive box fan pretty easily...

If you have some fabrication skills/ welding equipment, couldn't you remove the box fan motor and place the fan and a pulley on the shaft, then run a belt to a separate electric motor (out of the fumes)?

I know my Packrat grandfather used to have tons of motors and pulleys lying around... Seems you could modify an inexpensive box fan pretty easily...
That does sound like it would work,but it would have to be a long belt though.And the motor would not be in direct contact with the exhausting fumes and vapors. Good Thinking 1966 L78.

Following this thread for a while now. I have painted at home with in-garage setups before without any exhaust setup and have also used a box fan as an exhaust with furnace filters in front of it. Just my own opinion, but with a dialed in HVLP setup, I think you are on the threshold of not having an exhaust operating while spraying and only run it after the paint is applied to exhaust the fumes. No matter how you cut it, the key is air exchange. I have painted conventional both ways - there is no comparison - you need a booth to shoot paint with 35 - 40 PSI with a conventional. But at 10 PSI, you do not want a strong cross flow air movement. Also, by creating a large draft via exhaust, you will suck in plenty of dirt with the incoming air. I am about ready to epoxy prime and intend on setting up the temp garage to spray in. We are fortunate that where the house sits we always have a breeze. I am going to let nature do the work for me this time. Making cutouts in the fabric for filters on all sides and intend to let nature provide the fresh air.

JMHO, the absolute worst thiing you can do at home is build a an air tight spray booth that does not have excess ventilation capacity. Someone mentioned being able to spray for 45 minutes and still being able to see. That time of reference is about 44 minutes and 45 seconds too long of a reference. At worst case, the air should be clear wthin 10 - 15 seconds (max) or you are doing yourself a great injustice.

You guys have talked alot about the types of fans to use and only a small little bit about where to put them.

What is the best way for the air to flow? Where do the fans need to be in the room? How much of a breeze should I be feeling?

I've only done paint on my motorcycle and i didn't use any kind of booth.. just an open garage, of course it didn't turn out perfect.. it didn't turn out bad at all.. but i'm here because i'm a perfectionist (who will probably never get it right enough). I've got a few projects needing paint and i think its high time for a booth. I've just never been in or around one. enlighten me

Jason

Well with mine I I have a celing. But i left a opening that i put filters over. Than I have the blower motor on the other side of the garage. I changed how mine was set up. In the pics on my yahoo profile I had that drier vent hooked up to it.. But like everyone said it chocked it up to much.. So what I did was mount it right to the wall. And made a crate to go around it. Than i wrap filters around that.. On the outside I have water spraying on it. I tested it out the other day i got my garage a fummed up.. It pulled everything out in about 1 min..