I have been reading about the comparisons and have learned alot from everyones experiance. However, it would be really benefical to see real world results to compare those.

I dont know if anyone remembers, but many years ago in one of the magazines (early 90s, cant remember the name) had an article about the b-spindle swap, new springs, sway bars, 16 inch wheels, etc on a 196something GTO. the company was called HO Racing (not sure about the name, cant find them on a google). this guy used skidpad measurments to document the improvments in stages. his end result was something like .94 on the skid pad after modifications, comparable to the corvette of the same year of the test (very impressive for a pure bolt on kit). i think it even beat the vette on the slalom, and this was using poly bushings. i think hotchkis based their kit on this setup (or quite possibly vice versa).

my point is that a complete suspension kit using poly has proven amazing advancements in A-body handling, especially for the money. spending more money on something that i have to yet to see actual results kinda bothers me. i keep hearing that poly will not allow the suspension to work to its full potential, i dont disagree and Dennis has gone great lengths to publish comparisons of bind. does this mean that spherical will boost the skidpad numbers? are we talking .1 or .2gs? or will it make the difference of pushing it over 1.0g (a la viper)?

Dennis: your analysis of the different types of bushings was very impressive and informative, thanks for the info. but i would like to see how it translates in me driving up an on/off-ramp at 70+mph.

now with all this said, i am a mechanical engineer, so i do believe in numbers. but after many years in labs, i also believe that calcualtions give answers not solutions. you cant factor in everything, hence experiments are used in conjunction with theory. i am sure there is a better setup than ploy, but how much better and for how much money?

has anyone of these companies (hotchkis, global west, etc.) published the numbers to prove their products performance on track? i kinda look at it from this point of view, with respect to all bench racers; if you dont have the time slip to prove it, your car doesnt do it!

sorry for rambling.

I don't have any definitive numbers to help you and probably never will as I have already started the rear transformation and don't have a baseline to compare against. I can tell you this, replacing the components that induce bind into the system with free rotating rod ends is less about producing high "G" numbers and more geared towards making the chassis predictable which ultimately decides who is fastest on the race track (or the on ramp). If the chassis is predictable and responds similarly every time it is pushed than the driver can drive it harder into the corners without fear of snap oversteer, the gremlin of binding suspension.

I would loved to have had the ability to start with worn out stock and then ran all new rubber, poly, rod ends, and then ultimately the 3-link. I just don't have the time or resources for such an endeavor.

Knife,

Sorry, just a "Bench" racer with no numbers, but some info (along the lines of Dennis's statement about predictability)...

From my experience, the car with All poly in the rear had a tendancy to "skip" (like a flat rock on a pond) when cornering and encountering a bump in the road (which is where I think most of the snap oversteer will occur)... It wasn't bad enough to loose control of the car, but could be un-nerving (you could actually feel the oversteer, even at only semi-aggressive speeds... And on the street, there are bumps, whereas on a slalom or skidpad, there surface is usually pretty smooth...

Especially the skidpad, where the car and suspension is incrementally loaded in the same direction, so thats a really bad comparison (Poly might be better here, I don't know)... But even on a "roadcourse", the surface is probably pretty smooth/clean/maintained and therefore some of the poly problems might not be as apparent as they would be on the street (and maybe even better?).

A question about the magazine article... Did the car use "boxed" upper arms with poly or stock upper arms with the poly bushings? I personally think the big problem today is the use of BOTH the stiff boxed upper arms AND the poly bushings... While either will create problems individually, together the really amplify those binding issues...

Many people equate "stiff" suspension with greater handling, but thye never try to just replace the 33+ year-old rubber bushings with new rubber to see the effects... They go straight to the Poly...



Changing the lower arms to the Global West (with spherical front) and stock uppers with NEW rubber bushings at both ends (NO other changes), the car has a better road feel... It still "seems" to lean into a turn about the same as before (no increase?), but the "skipping" is not there...

hey guys what about CE slide-a-links?

Knife,

I believe the article yoyu are refering to is called Knuckle Sandwich and it was in one of the old Hot Rod or Car Craft magazine issues. I still have that issue in the garage and did those mods to my 70 Chevelle. I also own a full set of front and rear HO Racing coil springs which I will not part with. Like you I also did a search for HO Racing and came up empty handed. I loved the results of the modifications and also went with the 255-50 16 tires all around. At the time the Goodyear gatorbacks just started coming out, they were used on the 1984 Corvettes for the first time as a 16" tire and they were also directional. I'm not saying these were the worlds first directional tire. I would assume the article came out around the mid 80's, I'll know more when I go to the garage and do more work on the car. I still have that set of tires laying around, though probably dried out a little by now, and get this mounted on 16"Cragar SS rims!! I've since then changed the setup, only because I love to toy around and see real life changes. Like you I am also a mechanical engineeer and can appreciate the calculations and math behind the science of suspensions, center of gravity, and instant centers. I also had Global West coil springs in the car for a little while but switched back to the HO Racing springs....geeze I wish I knew the srping rate of those HO coils.....I could have done it myself while they were out but didn't bother, I just knew they felt better on the Chevelle. Also used some Herb Adams and Dick Guldstrand stuff underneath. Currently I have a lot of other mods to the suspension, mostly bolt on. The car frame was highly restored and painted and I did not want to create a lot of weld marks all over the place. Also I don't have the time for extensive modifications right now with a family and other priorities. For the time being it is much easier to pruchase the prefabbed parts and bolt them up. Otherwise I would love to break out the cut off wheel and welder and go to town, in fact a nice three link is right up my alley...in my mind anyway. Till them, I'll bolt on and change to my liking. Happy Motoring!
Sam

Hey Sam, another 3-link fan huh? I'll post pics of my progress.

Denny,
Would love to see the progress as it goes.....something I think we all should consider much more. Looking forward to them.

Here is the link for HO Enterprises http://www.hoenterprises.com/WSFF/home.asp?vCompID=27383
The car used was 65 GTO. I plan on using his springs when I can afford to replace mine.