Okay, so I picked up that latest "Chevelle" magazine (Super Chevy) with the Bronze 66 SS one the cover...

The article said it was a COPO 427...

1) I have never heard of a COPO 427 Chevelle prior to 1969 (or else wouldn't Yenko/Gibb/etc all have used that instead of swapping engines prior to 1969)...

2), there were alot of inconsistancies with the equipment on the car (based on the photos) for either an L78 car or (theoretically) an L72 car...

Anybody ever heard of THAT particular COPO?

I know there were COPO orders in 1966 (such as Yenko Stingers), but never heard of the 427 Chevelle COPO...

Anybody have any more info?

Tony ...
66 427 COPO ..... my experience says none done .....but I do know of a 66 conv delivered new from dealer with L72 ( Minneapolis) .... definitely dealer installed car still around and original I'm sure not the only dealer installed 427 in a 66...... also mine had a 427 Block assembly installed under warranty instead of original L34 lot's of that went on in those days ( yes I have the original block)

I would really like to see that mag though ....hope I can find copy here. Bill

I was going to ask the same question. I did notice however, that not one of the panel of experts said, "Yes, I remember this one."

Seemed like a lot of parts missing too......

Back in 1970 there was a guy working at the same job site as me. He had a 67 ss with the 427. I at the time had a 66 with the 360hp 396. I would have never questioned him at the time how it was the car had a 427. I do not remeber the h.p it was or any real particulars but it definately was faster than mine. I do remember he had bought it new though but whether it had the 427 at delivery or not I am not sure.
Just a little tidbit of info for you.Its funny how I can remember 34 years ago but anything yesterday, forget it.

I got my bowtie addiction back in the mid 60's at age 9-12 hanging around central chevrolet in fremont ca.the showroom was always filled with a hipo vette and other ss types. they used to always have alot of hipo stuff. i rode in the first 67 z28 in the bay area my father bought the first ss350 camaro they got in and i was along for many 120 plus test drives on the nimitz freeway in 427 impalas, caprices and vettes. i was there when they swapped 427's into brand new 66 chevelles too. i remember asking my dad why they were taking a brand ...new not even detailed car apart. i would think that if they could have ordered them that way that they would have.....that's not to say that it wasn't possible though. the cars they sold were sold as new 427 chevelles(because that's what they were) but the motors were dealer installed

I wonder if they stamped the blocks to match the car?

They would need to have all the original documentation and then some to authenticate a car like this. There are probably real '69 COPO Chevelles and Camaros with no paperwork to back them up too. Doesn't make them fakes. Just hurts the value. Then again, there seems to be lots of fake documentation out there as well.

All of the fake documentation has litterally become the bane of our hobby. :rolleyes:

I wonder if they stamped the blocks to match the car?
Even if they did, wouldn't the block be coded as a replacement (CE) ?


Doesn't make them fakes.I didn't mean to imply this car IS a fake... Its just that it doesn't appear to add up... That and the "over-the-top" story (supposed experts, etc)...

I know there were likely some "factory" 427 1966 Chevelles, but they weren't "COPOs" (at least in all these years of hearing about COPOs, I had never heard one "expert" mention a COPO for 1966 Chevelles with 427s), and I doubt Dana would have access to a factory 427 Chevelle any more than Yenko, Gibb, Harrel, Nicky, Baldwin, etc...

I am merely thinking that this was a "dealer" installed 427 car (if even that), Yet the story, with the mention of COPO and all these so-called experts, tries to make the reader think it has an ultra-rare "factory" installed 427... And that its a survivor too...

The story mentioned the COPO camaros, "but if someone didn't want a small Camaro they could get a Chevelle" (not a direct quote, BTW)... Duh, the 1966 Chevelle was never in production when Camaros were available, so those that didin't want a small Camaro got a Chevelle instead, but it was a 67, 68 or 69 Chevelle...

The story also noted that these "experts" signed under the trunk lid, making it sound as if they agree the car is authentic... But that wasn't signed back in 1966, it was recent, and most of those experts didn't remember the car, and they weren't working at Dana when the car was built anyway...

Maybe its just the author of the article. I am getting tired of magazine authors NOT knowing much about what they are writing about, and not checking there facts/statements, etc. Although it probably also a combination of the owner too (he must have supplied info to the author...). I guess an ego-booster for the owner...

In my opinion, it is not likely that Chevy built any 427 COPO Chevelles before 1969.
One reason is that GM had a 1963 rule where they should not build any cars with a power to weight ratio greater then one HP to ten lbs of vehicle weight. Chevy was pushing the limit with the 375 HP cars. This would be a 3750lb car and a stripped Chevelle could come under this weight limit. Even the larger 427 425hp Impala and Biscayne was also pushing the limits of this 1hp/10lbs rule. The Corvette was exempt.
Another reason has a lot to do with class drag racing of the time. The 375 Hp Chevelle and Camaro was doing very well in NHRA and AHRA drag racing in 1966 and 1967. In 1968 match racing stock body factory cars was gaining popularity and the rules were changing. Chevy needed to do battle with the 1968 Hemi Dart/Barracuda and the 1968 428 Mustang/Cougar. Chevy needed 427 cars in 1969 so they found a way to quietly slip them out of the factory using the COPO system. The 1969 427 COPO cars were built as if they were special fleet order taxicabs or special order commercial vehicles. Chevy didn’t advertise the 427 cars or even badge them with 427 emblems. I believe they made them just to qualify them for the 50-car minimum required for Super Stock drag racing. Don Yenko had been getting special order Corvettes since his 1961 SCCA B/P Corvette racing program and the 1966 Stinger SCCA D/P Corvair program so he was in a good position to receive the 427 COPO cars. Fred Gibb and Dick Harrell had been successful with a 375hp auto trans COPO Nova and were able to get the ZL1 Camaros. Other Chevy dealers began to order the 427 COPO cars as they found out about them so the program was extended. I believe Chevy only intended to build enough 427 COPO cars to qualify them for class drag racing in 1969. Chevy did not have enough of a reason to build 427 cars before 1969. Documentation shows Yenko Chevrolet and Fred Gibb Chevrolet were both allowed to purchase COPO cars in 1968 but not with 427 engines. If these two dealers could not get factory built 427s before 1969, I find if difficult to believe any other dealers had them. IMO

I guess if you drop enough hints and vague connections it passes for true authentic documentation or something. :rolleyes:

It's an interesting car and all and shows a lot of vintage "how they did it back then" but really doen't do much to prove the car is what they appear to be claiming it is. If it's a vintage dealer installed 427 why not just say to and leave it at that? It's still a pretty cool car without trying to imply it's a COPO of some sort.

I suppose this guy parks it in his garage next to his '64 L76 and '65 Z16 convertible.

I'll remain skeptical. Neat car to look at though.

I also love the way they keep refering to it as VIN# 13817. You got to love it. I guess that makes mine a 427 COPO car also!


Rocky

I read it, and left it on the shelf. It looked like it was written by a Ford guy for non-Chevy people.

All of the fake documentation has litterally become the bane of our hobby. Do we really want to bring his name back to this topic??? graemlins/clonk.gif

Anyone else think that it is odd that it claims to have "factory drilled holes" for 427 emblems? If it WAS a real COPO car, I doubt it would have any unique holes for emblems. Why would they waste GM engineering time to create drawings, etc. to something that added nothing but cosmetic appeal to the package? Just look at the other COPO cars... no special badging.

Did they even USE that style "427" badge on anything in '66?

Did they even USE that style "427" badge on anything in '66? Good catch... I didn't look too close, but I think they might have been 67 and up Corvette Hood emblems or 67 "SS427" fender emblems (full-size)... 66 Vette and full-size cars didn't use an emblem like that (and they were the only "official" 427-powered vehicles)...

The later 1967 Yenko 427 Camaros were converted 396 cars and Yenko just swapped the 396 turbo jet V-flag emblem that was on the Camaro fender for the 66 Impala 427 turbo jet V-flag emblem

But Joe, the questionable emblem is the rear cove emblem...

Another think I noted... There's a "Tonawanda #1" decal on the passenger valve cover... I know thats incorrect for MOST 66 (if not all), so is it really a survivor, or has someone built something and added a patina to make it look "old"???

I am always looking for info on 427 Chevelles.
I have not been able to find this magazine so I didn't see it. Is there a picture online anywhere?

One interesting thing about 427 Chevelles is that one of the first 1964 Chevelles to hit the drag strip had a 427 engine but it was a "W" engine not a Mark IV big block Chevy. Drag racer Dick Harrell took the engine from his 1963 Z-11 and put it in a new 1964 Chevelle.

Another interesting thing about 427 Chevelles is that Smokey Yunick wrote in his book that he was given a 427 Chevelle engineering test car by Chevy. Smokey used it for one of his race cars. NASCAR allowed 427 cu in engines in 1965 to compete with 426 Chryslers and 427 Fords.

I think these type of things add to the myth of 427 Chevelles but I have not seen any convincing evidence of a 427 Chevelle escaping the factory until 1969 and even then they were quietly slipped out.

found a picture of the 1964 427 Chevelle on the Dick Harrell web site

http://69.94.82.218/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=116

Ha! I was looking at 427 **** on the net and came across this. My family owned that car for real no bs. I have the docs on that car. I have the protectaplate, the reciepts for the emblems (66 impala) all that ****, It was a So Cal car (san diego) all its life, it was just a stripped SS 396 car. the dent in the fender happened in our yard. If anyone wants to bs about this hit me on the aim at serc2k. I hate fraud. We sold that as a 396 car and btw it had a 402 truck block...

Jeremy

My buddies dad had a 66 with a 427, he bought it from the dealership. I was to young to really check it out. And he has since past on, So no info. from him . But I do remember it was new and equiped with the 427. Tony

I know there were likely some "factory" 427 1966 Chevelles, but they weren't "COPOs" (at least in all these years of hearing about COPOs, I had never heard one "expert" mention a COPO for 1966 Chevelles with 427s), and I doubt Dana would have access to a factory 427 Chevelle any more than Yenko, Gibb, Harrel, Nicky, Baldwin, etc...

Where is one documented "factory" car? I'm still looking.

Anyone else think that it is odd that it claims to have "factory drilled holes" for 427 emblems? If it WAS a real COPO car, I doubt it would have any unique holes for emblems. Why would they waste GM engineering time to create drawings, etc. to something that added nothing but cosmetic appeal to the package? Just look at the other COPO cars... no special badging.

Did they even USE that style "427" badge on anything in '66?

I know of a car that used to be in Moundsville, WV that the owner claimed to be a factory 427 67 SS. I absolutely thought it was BS and still do, but, he did have emblems that had offset posts to mount through the rear panel and I saw both the emblems and factory holes. The 427 emblems for front and rear were silverish chrome inside instead of red like the new repros. I still think that was wierd.

We had the magazine car before it was in the magazine, It was no COPO car. I'd bet my balls on it. the 427 was installed in the later 60s by the OG owners after the 396 puked the cowl air cleaner was installed then as well,, than the 427 got toasted and it ended up with a nasty 402(70 truck block) from a jet boat. These guys are BS, they fabricate storys to make cars worth more than they are. The story was supposed to be corrected per Dave Lindsley but It never did so his word is junk. I have full docs, and btw there was no 66 427 chevelles! even if they had one they campaigned as a drag car it wouldnt have been badged up.

believe me or not there it is,

Jeremy

aim-serc2k

We had the magazine car before it was in the magazine, It was no COPO car. I'd bet my balls on it. the 427 was installed in the later 60s by the OG owners after the 396 puked the cowl air cleaner was installed then as well,, than the 427 got toasted and it ended up with a nasty 402(70 truck block) from a jet boat. These guys are BS, they fabricate storys to make cars worth more than they are. The story was supposed to be corrected per Dave Lindsley but It never did so his word is junk. I have full docs, and btw there was no 66 427 chevelles! even if they had one they campaigned as a drag car it wouldnt have been badged up.

believe me or not there it is,

Jeremy

aim-serc2k

I totally believe you. I even tried to contact the new owner on a couple of occassions by the e-mail address at the end of the article. No response. I will also say that the style cowl plenum he has is not a one off. I saw one installed on a dark blue 66 chevelle at Carlisle with my dad in the late 1980's. I also saw a dual intake version of a cowl plenum on a 66 in ocala florida a few years ago, and although it looked very wierd, it looked real. I don't know for sure.

They sold that aircleaner in the parts dept in the 60's, Yunick used it on his 66 stock car chevelles, same basic design as a 67 z28 cowl or a 62ish impala, nothing super special just sounded bitchin when ya hit the throttle. anyway We tryed to buy the car back and had no success. Too bad someone's gonna think it's a 427 car.


J

By '66 Harrell was running his own 454 engines. Just a few years ahead of GM with his stroker motors.

Ha! I was looking at 427 **** on the net and came across this. My family owned that car for real no bs. I have the docs on that car. I have the protectaplate, the reciepts for the emblems (66 impala) all that ****, It was a So Cal car (san diego) all its life, it was just a stripped SS 396 car. the dent in the fender happened in our yard. If anyone wants to bs about this hit me on the aim at serc2k. I hate fraud. We sold that as a 396 car and btw it had a 402 truck block...

Jeremy

Jeremy,
You should post a picture of the protect-o-plate for the world to see! :D
Bruce

Jeremy,
You should post a picture of the protect-o-plate for the world to see! :D
Bruce

Agreed. It's funny how everyone knows about them, had one, or has one, and even has documentation, but will nobody will show it.

The story was supposed to be corrected per Dave Lindsley but It never did so his word is junk.
aim-serc2k

Dave is a very close, personal friend of mine, an avid Bowtie collector and a fantastic human being... You do not have the right to bash him IMO if you do not know the man, and for all reasons, over a Magazine Article that he did not write, and was written a long time ago at this point.. Talk about beatin a dead horse :clonk:

If I had a dime for every magazine article or restoration article written by these MAGAZINES that was supposed to be true, I'd be rich... I for one will not start this subject matter up yet one more time, but some just can't let it go.. much more important stuff to worry about in this world.. I just don't want my friend's name slandered... correcting a story written by someone else is not as easy as telling the morning newspaper to correct your classified add :(

Mike Crown

I have not read this article nor do I know what magazine it is in, but would like to confirm a few things about magazine articles in general. The publishers are in the business to sell magazines and, unfortuntely, certain information is glorified to make things sound better. Also, the writers are not in a position to know everything about every car model that was ever built, so certain assumptions are possibly made and/or they write what is provided to them.

When you are approached by a writer for a possible magazine feature you are asked to provide your own written information. Sometimes it comes across correct, while other times the truth is a little vague depending on the writer's style. It has happened to me in the past.

Here's another example - there was a picture of my car in a national magazine last year and the caption underneath read something like this ".........Don Lightfoot brought his freshly restored 69 Chevelle SS down from Canada.......". I never talked to the photographer involved and, in fact, the paint and major restoration on my car is about fifteen years old. Just some food for thought.

All I know is that the article was supposed to be re-canted and it never was. He told me he was gonna sell the car, Guess what I offered to come buy it and I was last on the list to buy it and its too bad because i liked the car for what it was. Bashing? hardly I gave him info on the car I'm real deal buddy he wanted to buy all my doc's for a reason.My documentation is the only thing standing between a 20k chevelle and a 200k "mystery chevelle" at Barett..

thanks!

J

ill dig up the old registration and post it up in the next day or so.

Post some pics and then sell the owner the docs that he wants. I bet if he knew they went public the current owner wouldn't want them anymore.

I just got an E Mail from DL, He tells me he contacted the magazine and the car wasn't sold as a 427 car to the next guy, If SC mag didn't revise info they had that's their bad and rotten of them.I don't care about the emblems it was a neat car. real fast too if you could drive it (thats where them flex cracks in the 1/4 came from LOL ;). by the way for the curious the emblem set all came from a 67 impala ss 427. I found the order form from the dealer in my box with the part numbers.

J
aim-serc2k

EDIT BY MOD: Please stop with the profanity. This is a family friendly site and would prefer it not be used here, thanks. Sorry.

I was copied that email from Dave and feel the need ( with Dave's permission ) to post the response and maybe, clear up any misunderstandings the public has about this car and Dave's ownership and subsequent sale. It's below:


I never claimed it was a Dana Chevelle for sure, I didn't write the article(or had an opportunity to proof read it) or wanted anything but the truth about the history of the car. The truth about the car is what I got from you after you saw the article.I also got an email from a great guy that owned it before you, who bought it from his boss in around 1968 or so. We had numerous conversations about the car,how it got the 427 and other unique items and the good old days. I did contact Super Chevy about doing a follow-up story to state that I did find out that the car never had any history with Dana Chevrolet and what I did find out about the car. I have not heard anything back from Super Chevy as of today. As far as me wanting the POP for the car, who wouldn't. You wouldn't even sell me a photocopy of it so I could see how the car was originally equipped. You could never know how much time, effort and money I spent trying to find out the truth about this car. I did sell the car to a friend as I told you, for a loss. I also had him sign a letter of acknowledgement stating that he understands that the car NEVER had any history with Dana and would never represent it that it did. He did sell the car to my disappointment but did have the new owner sign the same letter. I have a number of rare cars that are well documented,have won numerous car shows,been on loan to car museums,interviewed on Speed Vision and been in various magazines.I think it is very unfair of you to state that I was doing anything with the Chevelle for personal gain. To be honest with you I don't need the money. You don't know me or anything about me. I have been in business/self employed for 33 years and have an excellent reputation. I have a lot of friends in the car hobby that are very well known and respected that would tell you that I'm a stand up guy. Why don't you post this email on the Team Chevelle site "As Is" and let them hear my side of the story. Maybe I'll have someone post it anyway so they can make their own opinion of me and what my intentions were.
Dave Lindsley


So there you have it... not meant to do anything here but show the true story of what transpired.. glad John and Dave now have this worked out and maybe we can all get on with enjoying the hobby... :)

Mike Crown
previous owner of the "Mystery Chevelle"

There is a TC member from Middlesex NJ that has a white convertible '67 with a 427. I looked through his photo album at the Maryland show - I'm pretty sure he had documentation on the engine authenticity - Sorry I forgot his name. Very nice car.

It's all square, no drama, I tell ya what I won't sell my next rig ;)

take it easy,

J

Okay, so I picked up that latest "Chevelle" magazine (Super Chevy) with the Bronze 66 SS one the cover...

The article said it was a COPO 427...

1) I have never heard of a COPO 427 Chevelle prior to 1969 (or else wouldn't Yenko/Gibb/etc all have used that instead of swapping engines prior to 1969)...

2), there were alot of inconsistancies with the equipment on the car (based on the photos) for either an L78 car or (theoretically) an L72 car...

Anybody ever heard of THAT particular COPO?

I know there were COPO orders in 1966 (such as Yenko Stingers), but never heard of the 427 Chevelle COPO...

Anybody have any more info?
I know where there is one. 1966 SS Chevelle L72 427 M21 4 speed .411 posi knee knocker tach bench seat nps npb. Bought april 1966 at Curry Chevrolet in Butte MT Original title and an original Smokey Yunick cowl induction air cleaner. Car is complete and still intact.

I know where there is one. 1966 SS Chevelle L72 427 M21 4 speed .411 posi knee knocker tach bench seat nps npb. Bought april 1966 at Curry Chevrolet in Butte MT Original title and an original Smokey Yunick cowl induction air cleaner. Car is complete and still intact.


Let's see it! Pics of the engine code stampings, cowl plate, VIN plate, paperwork, build sheet, etc.

Otherwise ... :rolleyes: :boring: This subject has been flogged to death many times on here ...

There is a TC member from Middlesex NJ that has a white convertible '67 with a 427. I looked through his photo album at the Maryland show - I'm pretty sure he had documentation on the engine authenticity - Sorry I forgot his name. Very nice car.

My friend Ken Takas..NOT a 427 car....NO paperwork....only a real 138 convert

Guy I know has one,66,427,10 bolt.Says he bought it new .His Bro. in law stands witness to this cause as he says,its a 10 bolt 427 cause they ran outta 396s and 12 bolts on the line .The are both full of bullpucky,IMO.Im never gonna believe a 66 chevelle came through the gate at GM as a 427.:boring::boring::boring::boring::boring:

I sure hope PETA doesn't read this post!! Beating an animal will get them all over you.. but beating a DEAD HORSE.. wow!! They will bun your house down :D


:boring::boring::boring::boring:

Ah yes another 427 66/67 car debate. Makes me laugh every time especially when you ask to see the documents.

This thread started over 5 years ago!!

And Dave Lindsley is STILL a great guy!:thumbsup::beers:

This thread started over 5 years ago!!
To be continued 06/01/2012
:D

We have the original title from Curry Cheverolet in Butte That dealership made three that we know of. One was totaled, One was wrecked in Missoula MT This one is butter nut yellow and raced in the winter nationals in 1967 or 1968. My buddy who found it drove to the races with the owner in it. The original owner is still alive, the guy that installed the engine at the dealership is also still alive.

Sounds like an interesting Chevelle.

Do you know if this car is an original L78 SS396?
Does it have headers and scatter shield (bellhousing)?

Some of the hi po dealers would swap in a 427 L72 short block and install headers and scatter shield at customer request.

Maybe you can get pictures and more info and start a new post on it.

We have the original title from Curry Cheverolet in Butte That dealership made three that we know of. One was totaled, One was wrecked in Missoula MT This one is butter nut yellow and raced in the winter nationals in 1967 or 1968. My buddy who found it drove to the races with the owner in it. The original owner is still alive, the guy that installed the engine at the dealership is also still alive.

Sounds cool but that would not make it a COPO, just a dealer swapping in another engine at the owner's request which was not that unheard of back then. GM never installed a 427 in '66/'67 Chevelles.

This is how the deal worked here in Butte. You bought the car from the dealer. You bought the crate motor, it has crate motor numbers and the Carburetor. The car never left the dealership. They swapped out the engine kept the 396 as part of the profit for the upgrade, added the extras and it drove away with 427 badges. It is a Copo Because it was warrantied by GM as such back in 1967 and 68 due to its eating of valve springs. I am going to track this down through the warranty info if I can and finally prove these where built. The mechanic at this Curry Chevrolet dealership did 3 of these conversions. The thing every one needs start realizing is Yenkos didnt leave the factory that way either. The parts are all factory the were warrantied as 427's I will get the info and pictures and put it up asap.

COPO- Central Office Production Order

Means that it was ordered that way from the factory.

Dealer installed does not mean COPO.

This is how the deal worked here in Butte. You bought the car from the dealer. You bought the crate motor, it has crate motor numbers and the Carburetor. The car never left the dealership. They swapped out the engine kept the 396 as part of the profit for the upgrade, added the extras and it drove away with 427 badges. It is a Copo Because it was warrantied by GM as such back in 1967 and 68 due to its eating of valve springs. I am going to track this down through the warranty info if I can and finally prove these where built. The mechanic at this Curry Chevrolet dealership did 3 of these conversions. The thing every one needs start realizing is Yenkos didnt leave the factory that way either. The parts are all factory the were warrantied as 427's I will get the info and pictures and put it up asap.


Carl

I think you are missing the point.. as so many do. No offense... but GM did NOT produce any Factory 427's in 1966 Chevelle SS's under the COPO line of ordering...what you are describing is what many of us here and myself have said and shown and is known for years.. these are DEALER CONVERSIONS... Swaps... nothing more, nothing less. Why do people find this such a difficult concept to grasp?? :clonk:

It's great that this dealership in Butte did this and if you had documentation showing the paperwork for the swap, even better.. but still not a COPO as we all think of COPO.

Show me the car, show me the paperwork with the COPO wording, show me something verifiable and we can continue the discussion next year when someone else drags up the post again. ;)

COPO cars are generally turned into show pieces and not driven.
That's a shame because there is nothing much like the experience. A car
with a dealer installed 427 is more in the price range where people will actually
drive and enjoy them and get the same experience. Given the choice, I'll take
the latter. Our Chevelle shows the 9566AA code right in the documentation and
bill of sale. Having the invoice for a dealer installed engine might add to the value
of the car. I guess it would be up to the buyer as to how much extra he is willing
to pay. Until someone comes up the documentation, factory 427s in '66s and '67s
will be just something interesting to talk about. It's just a shame that GM didn't make
the L72 an RPO from '66 on. From my experience, you couldn't fine a more
user friendly vehicle. Ours was as reliable as a rock.

COPO is an acronym for Central Office Production Order.
It was a method of allowing Chevrolet Factory Production of "non-standard" options & trim, primarily.
The 427 engine was factory installed in all COPO production Chevelles only for the 1969 model year.

Dan

ill dig up the old registration and post it up in the next day or so.

Its been a few days.

Its been a few days.

l:) Not much slack to be had around here huh? :D

COPO is an acronym for Central Office Production Order.


PETA is an acronym for People Eating Tasty Animals