Dear Chevelle Guys,

I don't know how accurate this is at this point, but apparently Greg at DPE allegeldly purchased Mr. Piggins records on COPO Camros and Chevelles.

Due to many people accusing me of being like a used car salesman and a lot of worse labels I cancelled the last ebay ad and sought to do a complete owners history and as many know found the 5th owner who bought the car at 36,000 miles and knew the 2nd 3rd and 4th owner and confirmed at that time as far back as 20,000 miles with the second owner that indeed it was a 427 CID thought to be installed by the factory did matched the VIN, restamping engines in the late 70's and early 80's wasn't a big issue becasue these cars really had reached the low of depreciation, and number stamping really didn't make much difference in value then.

I gave Greg at DPE the VIN and asked if he could look through his records and see if he has anything, and today he confirmed this car was on the list of COPO's with factory installed 427.

I am arranging to talk with him and find out how we document this VIN 136379B326463 car.

Now before I start jumping up and down and stating I have a real COPO I would like to gets some Chevelle Team thoughts on this matter. I don't want to have a fiasco like the last two times. I think many of you stated some things to me that were inappropriate and lacked real evidence to accuse me of fraud, nevertheless this is an opportunity for all of us to rectify this matter once and for all

Your thoughts please!~

Bain, if you car is the real McCoy, congrats! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I hope that it is, and that you put 'er back to original and have fun with it!

Im just curious how a guy that apparently has to come on team chevelle to learn about copos,finds a person who bought copo papers and has this guy verify [in 2 days] he has a copo, when some of us who have copos and have done alot of reasearch over many years,had to rely on buildsheets etc or ED C...?????.im asking because i want to know if im missing something here....

Maybe you could provide the COPO guys Greg's number and credentials so they can check him out and see if he anything for their cars. He could help them all out, I suspect...

Good find!

I am not believing it yet either my friend.

So just relax I have to see what he backs this up with, and I have asked for his phone number, I used to have it, as he sells dated parts for the 60's muscle cars, but I am overseas and away from my records.

Essentially his story is that he bought the records off Mr. Piggins a man who had all the camaros and chevelle COPO records. you could go to www.ss427.com (http://www.ss427.com) and ask Steve. He told me that some people had obtianed records on these cars and was threatening to make them available. THis is supposedly is the guy. IF this is true then that woud be what your missing.

Concurrently I am running an independant Title history trace, kind of expensive through an another agency. So at the end of the road the two sources should agree.

He stated to me that my VIN was on the list. Greg told me earleir in the Spring that he wanted set up somthing like what GM of Canada does with VIN's, again this would depend on the valifity of Greg having all of Mr. Piggins records. If so then again that would be what your missing.

OK we'll see, I am not holding my breath this may all be BS you know.

Oh yea Mr. LS6 convertable I have also done a lot of research, and talked to countless poeple in the fiield who have a lot of knowledge, read books and studied the COPO on line guiys as well, so I am fairly knowledgeable myself on the subject, I mean for anyone who wants to know guys like you, COPO.com and a whole host of literture and other knowledgeable people have already paved the way. All you need to do is be persistant and want the knowledge. And I have been.

Bain, just simply asking ...If you are still unsure about your car and the person that can verify it why does the thread say "confirmed copo"????????????????

If I were as sure as you seem to be that your car is a COPO, I would contact Ed Cunneen and pay his fees to authenticate the car.
James

Originally posted by Ls6Convertible:
Bain, just simply asking ...If you are still unsure about your car and the person that can verify it why does the thread say "confirmed copo"???????????????? I am interested in that also, and I must ask why do you keep putting it on ebay and costing yourself $40 each time if you have no interest in selling it. If you're that worried about it's potential value, call an appraiser.

The car is not ebay right now, and yes I am now spending that money to authenticate the status.

The reason why I am much more sure now is I also have a major portion of history documented, and all the evidence points to COPO. I am very sure the outcome will be authenticated COPO.

Who is this other guy I wasn't aware that he had all the records. To my Knowledge he only has the records for the Yenko Chevelle, if you are talking about this guy from COPO.com. Are U saying he has all the copo documents???

Is this the guy your talking about at copo.com.

Let me know

I can drop a 427 in this car and have it look identical to a fully documented COPO that was at the CanAm show last year:
http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/BlueSS454/69.JPG
Unless you have a build sheet or dealer invoice and GM paperwork, you really should stop wasting everyone's time and bandwidth on alleged information that really holds no water on said car.

I love that car. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Hey!!! mines green with a black vinyl top. It might be a copo. What do you guy's think? The guy that sold it to me, said the cragers were special order. http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/71metbu/DayOne.jpg

NOw you guys are really cracking me up, firstly
the hunk a **** up there just be a COPO!!!! Give Greg the VIN # you never know. I didn't bother giving him the number until I have a good owners history.

As for the guy who said he could drop a 427 into that 307 plain jane mailbu abd call it a COPO. Don't forget to do the following before you hint even a GOOD CLONE

512 Cating code 4 bolt main
Date coded about 30 - 45 days prior to the Cowl Tag build date

840 heads about 15 - 45 days prior to the date code of the block

4346 Carb sometime near the date of the other parts

I or J dated Waterpump

Towanda Stamping sometime near the build date but dxefinetly after the casting date of all tghe parts.

Winter stamp 163 aluminum intake casting date prior to assembly date of the engine

Trans TH400 dated prior to build date of car on or about the Towanda date

Rear end 939 casting with a series 4 carrier, beefed up R&P gear thicked plate and heavier springs, from the time of build date, Tube stamp of assembly prior to build date on cowl tag.

So it's pretty dumb to say that you could just drop a 427 in it and it's COPO, I am sorry moronic at the least, all you would have is a really cheezy clone.

Now as far as Greg Goes, someone who has purchased Mr. Piggins records and makes statements like your car's VIN is on the list, logically the man is in the business to makle money he didn't buy those records just to make the Chevelle world a happier place, it's about being able to provide a complete documentation service. Although until I see the goods I am skeptical I keep an open mind coz I knwo the owners history of this car and I believe it's a COPO 427 and those naysayers will be eating crow. BIG TIME BABY!! If not well you won't see me advertising this car as a potential COPO anymore, I just want the truth, you naysaysers are obviously jealous at my fortune and faith that I have had something you guys lost a long time ago.

OH yea about that 427 drop in King above don't forget the hood and heavy duty special springs to go with your Small Block to Big Block Conversion, different cross memeber, radiator upgrade, and probably some kind of stabilizing bars upgrades to the front and back.

Need new tires for all that power, by the time you get done with just that list on the outside and get painted properly and ensuring it is rust free you've spent so much money it sure better be a COPO 427 Car or the greatest clone the world ever saw.

I just have to laugh at you, sorry but your funny, maybe you should become a comedian specializing in stupid statements, now thats funny!! :D graemlins/waving.gif

Your vin looks way too early to be a COPO. But never say never in this hobby.
Peter

Yea thats the traditional view, I am mearly stating that a company that specializing in COPO and Corvette parts from the 60's who claims to have bought Piggins records would be making a huge credibility error in saying this if it weren't true, and making this statement falsly for the purposes of making money would be even worse, I am skepitcal but I am keeping an open mind until I see the evidence. If he bought the records then there is credible evidence, I have asked for it, waiting for the reply

:rolleyes:


Rocky

Yep it certainly is!! graemlins/beers.gif

Factory GM buildsheets are what copos[and other rare cars] are all about,they stand the test of time and dont warrant a "committee" to document ...There are guys out there with real cars that lack a buildsheet that disagree with me,but "he said", "she said","Bob T ownded it" documentation is always debatable,and factory parts are always interchangeable.Also a current owner may be 100% certain he has a real car,but will never convince the next guy he sells to that his undocumented[but real] car is worth 200K....While there are many ways to determine if a car is legitimate[condition,parts,etc] the ONLY way to truly document a car is FACTORY buildsheets[not POPs and msos that can easily be fabricated.The only exception are the ZL1s and Yenko cars that have known vins...30 years from now,the documentation for the non buildsheet copos will consist of the names of 4 deceased prior owners...and then suddenly that copo becomes an RS copo red on red ....Bain, why do you keep saying the guy that claims he has copo records would not make this credibility error since he has a business , yet you keep saying you are skeptical??????

Dude can't I be skepical until I see the goods, isn't possible to keep an open mind and positive attitude and also want to see the goods.

It's just hard to believe that this guy would make these statements and then look mlike an idiot. Look were going to knwo if he has copies of the build sheets or something that validates repro the build sheet like GM of Canada.

I have asked the aquestions that you are stating and I am sure I will here back from him soon.

Thanks for staying objective though, I agree with you, but there are ways of preserving and determining whatg is credible and what is not in prior owner statements. IN the real world they certainly add value as an augmentation to a factory build sheet.

Ok Cool lets here from the next guy.

Bain: check your mail...

did that check your

Bain, I agree with you 100% lets wait and see...I just dont know why "greg" would choose your car as his first documentation sale..........

Do ,you know Greg at durability engines I think thats the name of his company

Im wondering why HE didnt buy your car for the 30K if he has the paperwork.....??? If i had the copo paperwork you say he has ,i wouldnt sell it to you and others for 300.00 or even 3000.00 per car ,id buy your car and find all the other undocumented ones and make 100K and better on each one ....does this make any sense??? This is the same reason ive said all along the gm paperwork wont ever come out...and if it did[ it would be for all the 6 cylinder station wagons and malibus....

hmmm, makes you wonder what his price will end up being, thats one reason why having an independant checking the history and hopefully stumbling on the build sheet is important. validates his info, and helps me maybe NOT need him.

You know Piggins was reportedly like that about these records.

Or maybe he has a lot of capability to build cars he knows don't exist anymore with all the right parts which he does have, perfect and worth more than undoing bastardized cars. There are a lot more non existing cars than there are that do exist. Anyway we keep getting into agendas and maybes and well what's really going on here, I don't care about that lets get into truth thats more important agendas and motives will always be revieled in the end without us having to speculate

So we can assume he told you your car was a copo for free then,maybe hes a philanthropist?????? Since youve said he told you your car was on the "list",and then you said you "wonder what he charges????........I told you i could tell you in 2 minutes if your car was not real and you never inquired....surely i wont tell you how,but i would tell you....makes me wonder why i havent heard from you.......

it's interesting everyone keepes mentioning copo.com until now I have never heard of yenko@yenko.net. You even said you don't have all the records. You have the VIN is that VIN in your reocrds or list??? What do you charge buster brown 300 bucks thats it???

First I'll say, I love COPO's ... probably will never own one, but the history is pretty cool. If your's is an original great, if not it's still a nice car.

Check out this article on the COPO.com site ...
http://www.copo.com/L72-History.htm

It mentions Chevrolet not looking into the COPO option until Nov'68. I may be wrong, but with a 326*** VIN ... Is your car before Nov.?

I also notice that the earliest VIN listed here is 344*** ...
http://www.copo.com/L72-Vin-Sort.htm

Might be some stuff to check out the validity of your car.

P.S. Don't rag too hard ... From what I remember your car started out as only have a correct rear-end and nothing else (similar to the cars above)? So from what I can tell you must of pieced all COPO parts off Ebay or something.

At least everyone can now understand why some knowledgeable copo owners are so standoffish when you try to ask questions about the cars and documenting them...this is the reason...

Not sure I'm following you, Bain?? Where did "Buster Brown" and "$300" come into play??

As of right now, NO ONE has a complete VIN list of COPO cars built: not copo.com, not yenko.net, not even Chevrolet (as of yet)...and I'd be surprised if the gentleman you're talking with has a list either. I hope he does, but why would Chevrolet allow that information to simply "walk off" when they could sell it and provide a service like George Zapora has done with the Canadian cars or like what Jim Mattison has done with the Pontiacs?

You put too much emphasis on your VIN#...that's fine if a list exists, but if there's no list, then your stuck. And believe it or not, your trim tag actually does contain more information than "paint color and trim"...

Good luck with your hunt.

OK you asked for it...
Originally posted by Bain:
NOw you guys are really cracking me up, firstly
the hunk a **** up there just be a COPO!!!! Give Greg the VIN # you never know. I didn't bother giving him the number until I have a good owners history. [QB][QUOTE]
And you never will so next....

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bain:
[QB]As for the guy who said he could drop a 427 into that 307 plain jane mailbu abd call it a COPO. Don't forget to do the following before you hint even a GOOD CLONE Yes I can and it would be a perfect clone.

Originally posted by Bain:
512 Cating code 4 bolt main
Date coded about 30 - 45 days prior to the Cowl Tag build date Wow, there's a tough one there. It's the same block used in L78's, LS6, 427 Corvettes, and special order passenger cars with 396 engines...next

Originally posted by Bain:
840 heads about 15 - 45 days prior to the date code of the blockOnce again, such a task at hand (and yes that is sarcasm)

Originally posted by Bain:
4346 Carb sometime near the date of the other parts Once again, see above...

Originally posted by Bain:
I or J dated Waterpumpand again...

Originally posted by Bain:
Towanda Stamping sometime near the build date but dxefinetly after the casting date of all tghe partsthat can be redone....and learn to spell correctly

Originally posted by Bain:
Winter stamp 163 aluminum intake casting date prior to assembly date of the enginethis is getting redundant...

Originally posted by Bain:
Trans TH400 dated prior to build date of car on or about the Towanda dateoh wow there is a tough one considering they were put behind ALL big blocks except ones with 4 speeds...next

Originally posted by Bain:
Rear end 939 casting with a series 4 carrier, beefed up R&P gear thicked plate and heavier springs, from the time of build date, Tube stamp of assembly prior to build date on cowl tagMore redunancy...

Originally posted by Bain:
So it's pretty dumb to say that you could just drop a 427 in it and it's COPO, I am sorry moronic at the least, all you would have is a really cheezy cloneNow there is an intelligent reply, how long did it take you to come up with that one?

Originally posted by Bain:
Now as far as Greg Goes, someone who has purchased Mr. Piggins records and makes statements like your car's VIN is on the list, logically the man is in the business to makle money he didn't buy those records just to make the Chevelle world a happier place, it's about being able to provide a complete documentation service. Although until I see the goods I am skeptical I keep an open mind coz I knwo the owners history of this car and I believe it's a COPO 427 and those naysayers will be eating crow. BIG TIME BABY!! If not well you won't see me advertising this car as a potential COPO anymore, I just want the truth, you naysaysers are obviously jealous at my fortune and faith that I have had something you guys lost a long time ago. Nice try at justifying your comments, but no dice. You still HAVE NO PROOF of what it potentially is, so instead of saying constantly that it may be this, why don't you try asking what kind of research I can do to find out any and all information I can. You have no documentation so why even bother to ADVERTISE (you need to look this term up in the dictionary) as something it is not and never will be. You still never answered the question, why doi you keep spending $40 putting it on ebay time and time again?. When you find out who the original owner is and can have him prove this thing is what you THINK it is, and post it for all of us to see, then things may change, until then....
Jealous? Hardly, I really could give a rats ass what you have. I have a car that will triple your "potential COPO" cars value so I don't think so. You say you want the truth, well it has been given to you time and time again and you refuse to accept the fact that you don't have what you would like to think you have. You are not skeptical in the least. I would tell you to go back and read all of your postings, however, you are blinded by your own mind set of what something POTENTIALLY is in which you have no proof of.

Blue SS 454 ~ I am finding you impossible to understand whats your point

LS6454 No I don't understand you whats your point

SS454 Well you have all these records is the vin on your list? "buster Brown" just an expression

Let's recap a little.

1. At one point you said the car was an original 375hp/396 Malibu (though none are known to have ever been built) that has had a warranty replacement 427 installed at some point.

2. At another point you said the car had had a factory 427 originally. (Which is it?)

3. All along you've said it has no paperwork.

4. Miraculously contact with previous owners seemed to shed some light. Unfortunately all we have to substantiate that is that you said so.

5. Again miraculously someone comes out of the blue claiming to have documentation (that no one else has been able to come up with for the past 35 years) that will prove the car as a COPO.

6. Multiple times you have tried to start discussions in your own threads and other people's threads about the car while appearing to not really have a personal connection to the car.

And you wonder why you have a credibility problem here? You wonder why people question your claims of what some mysterious previous owner or guy with some magic paperwork states your car is or may be?

Your threads come from nowhere and go to nowhere. Feel free to share more insight when you have something credible and tangible to offer.

Originally posted by Bain:
Blue SS 454 ~ I am finding you impossible to understand whats your point Originally posted by Bain:
LS6454 No I don't understand you whats your point I think they are both kindly trying to tell you that you are full of ****. I believe you though, because I'm in the same boat. Someone took my original 427 out and turned my COPO into a 350 Malibu clone. They took all the COPO stuff off it, probably to build a COPO clone out of a some Malibu. All I need is the paperwork to prove it and I'll be rich. Then again, my COPO parts might be on your Malibu. smile.gif

Dear L79 We have had out disputes in this forumn before and they were so bad that the moderator decided to close the topic, so I am going to refrain from telling you off becasue your recap is off by a long shot, lets recap your recap please listen and learn:

Let's recap a little. ~ You Said This

1. At one point you said the car was an original 375hp/396 Malibu (though none are known to have ever been built) that has had a warranty replacement 427 installed at some point.

2. At another point you said the car had had a factory 427 originally. (Which is it?)

3. All along you've said it has no paperwork.

4. Miraculously contact with previous owners seemed to shed some light. Unfortunately all we have to substantiate that is that you said so.

5. Again miraculously someone comes out of the blue claiming to have documentation (that no one else has been able to come up with for the past 35 years) that will prove the car as a COPO.

6. Multiple times you have tried to start discussions in your own threads and other people's threads about the car while appearing to not really have a personal connection to the car.

And you wonder why you have a credibility problem here? You wonder why people question your claims of what some mysterious previous owner or guy with some magic paperwork states your car is or may be?

Your threads come from nowhere and go to nowhere. Feel free to share more insight when you have something credible and tangible to offer.


The proper recap and message that should be drawn from it

1) I did say it's possible that it was originally a 396 L78 engine in the car originally, and that it may have been a warranty replacement 427 put in. Honestly didn't know, if I said that it that way in a post then that was just me making an honest mistake with typing so fast and not proofing what I had written, so that was my opinion then I thought that may have been a possibility.

2) Once again possible, but now I have some more evidence and I am convincxed that it did have the 427 from the beginning. When the history search and this thing with Greg is done we'll know, but the history so far points to 427 from birth. But your right we don't know yet for certain, the truth is coming.

3)true, but we are now slowly defining it's history and documenting that and it's possible Greg does have a lot of these records and he's confirming a truth, we'll see. Meanwhile we have SS454 wanting to see the Trim Tag info and saying the VIN doesn't tell you much, but he also has alluded to having many records on these cars, and won't answer a straight question, is the VIN in his records and if so does he have a factory copy of the build sheet??? No answer why, it's Yes I do or No I don't, if he doesn't then he's not someone I should waste my time with.

4)Theres nothing miraculous in this day an age about ebay and former Chevelle owers who had a car for 20 years, would you like to see his emails I am certain you would find something wrong with that as well. I am paying money right now to get a detailed history search back to the dealership it was originally sold from and the first owner. You know I sold my first 1970 Chevelle last year it wasa Number Matching 396 and my God the money I made wasn't worth it, it's not an usually thing to feel that way. And a man who owned this car for 20 years damn well knew what his VIN was and damn well probably looked thourgh ebay a lot looking at 69 Chevelles thinking what would it be like again if I could. Everyonme who owns a big block Chevelle know what I am talking about, Rocky said it best " A man and his Chevcelle is a beautiful thing" There is no miracle here it's the truth and although I could prove it your more into telling people that they are lieing or basically disrepsecting them and just saying you don't believe them "same thing" so why bother sharing anything with you when your first instinct is to call people heratics and want to burn them at the stake for being a which (lier) whatever.

5)This again is no miracle but would be great I can't wait to hear back to see what the deal is, thanks for casting it in a light of disbelief sarcasm as well, thats good keep up the good attitude that what moderators are looking for!!

6)And your point is what??? THat it's fishy cause I point to a car that is mine and say what do you think of this car without telling you it's mine, you lost me again???? So what!

Look L79 I told you via email when you brought your arguments directly to my personal email that you owe me an apology, but now I think you really owe everyone an apology for fueling the wrong attitude about this subject. Whatr can you do to help Chevelle owners in this situation other than berating me, the point is can you help document this car or disprove it one way or another, if you can't I suggest you go somewhere in Chevelletech where you can be of help, if you can I welcome your help lets find out!

TO SS454 enough of the cryptic it can be fun in some situaitons but now it's time for you to tell everyone if you have the VIN on your list of records or not, is it there Mr. Yenko@yenko.net??? I know you said you don't have all the records but of the ones you have is my VIN there???

AL

To ZZ69chevelle

Tragic and funny all at the same time, you have the gift or irony! ;)

To ZZ69chevelle

Tragic and funny all at the same time, you have the gift of irony! ;)

Al, the point everyone has been trying to make is without documentation the car is just another Chevelle put together with parts, nothing special about it even though it is a very nice car.

What it "might have been" or "could have been" without absoulte proof means absolutely nothing as far as it's worth goes.

Why can't you understand that and quit trying to convince people otherwise.

You can't just "make up" your own proof.

I GET THE POINT MR. GM454

I got that one along time ago.

Maybe your not listening.

Documeted owners history & accounts WITH gm copies of the build sheet is what I am trying to obtain and that is proof by everyone's definition. The picture is getting clearer just trying to make it complete so there is no ambiguity. Just asking for help at this point to find the owners, and if the ss454 guy who operates Yenko@yenko.net would fess up if his records indicate that the VIN I have is on his list of records, Afterall he is an authority on this subject, so why can't I get an answer from him about it?

No one is trying to make anything up, OK!!

Thanks for the compliment on the car

I'M BEGGING EVERYONE...STOP THE MADNESS... WHO CARES AT THIS POINT... graemlins/clonk.gif graemlins/clonk.gif graemlins/clonk.gif

First, excuse me for not complying with your time frame, Bain! My day started this morning at 5am when I was called in to work...mix in helping the wife with the 3 kids, church, and a short family lunch, and then my return to work, and *maybe* you can understand why I haven't had time to screw around on the internet. If you feel my reply is tardy, then sue me...

Now, with that said, let's finish the game. I tried helping you offline, yet you felt the need to bring this to the net, and lead people to believe I was withholding info from you...if you'll recall your emails, you'll note where I stated we did NOT have your VIN# in our database, and that it was WAY early. Pretty much the same opinion everyone else has given you. Again: NO, WE DO NOT HAVE YOUR VIN# IN OUR DATABASE. But, and this is a biggie so you'd better sit down, I do have information on that car, which is, and has been, available for all to see on the very site you said you so politely claimed you'd never heard of (yenko.net).

For those of you following along, you can now refer to these 2 threads:

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=58917&Forum=All_Forums&Words=326463&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=58907&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=0 &newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post58917 (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=58917&Forum=All_Forums&Words=326463&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=58907&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=0&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post58917)

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=68123&Forum=All_Forums&Words=326463&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=68111&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=0 &newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post68123 (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=68123&Forum=All_Forums&Words=326463&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=68111&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=0&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post68123)

And for future reference on this site, here are the vitals on the car the last time it was inspected (I say "last time" because apparently part of the info has changed alone the way):

B326463

ST 69 13637 BAL 161444 BDY
TR 795 65 E PNT
11D B L 074899

A good friend of mine looked at this car, as did some of the other yenko.net members, and they posted their findings. So now it's MY turn to ask the questions...

- You now state the car has it's "original" KQ rear...what happened to the KK rear that was in the car that several prospective buyers said the car had?

- You now state it has a "matching numbers" block in it...what happened to the 1970 dated 454 block that was in it that again was said to be in the car?

- And lastly, why does the car now sport a January build date versus the November build date listed in the previous (original?) trim tag? Whichever build date you wanna go with (11D or 01x), it's still MONTHS earlier than any other known COPO Chevelles.

So, we've got a virtual history of the car online, showing how this car went from an *alleged* 396 car with the KK rear, a '70 454 block, and a WAY early build date, to an *alleged* COPO car with a KQ rear, a matching numbers 512 block, and a January (still to early) build date. This car has been shopped around for AT LEAST the better part of a year, and every prospective buyer to date has passed...that alone should tell you something.

Sorry for the wait, but hopefully it was worth it... ;)

This quote is taken from above post...... "He e-mailed me the motor stamping: 19B326463 T0324MP

Also he provided the cowl tag info:"

ST 69 13637 BAL 161444 BDY
TR 795 65 E PNT
11D B L 074899
..............................March 1969 block in a November 1968 built car.....Bain, you may want to cancel your title searches..

So does that mean it's over? :D

I thought the first thread yielded the same results. Great detective work!

now that your parade has been rained on,
sell it for what it is a nice looking Chevelle.

And when did this supossedly happen????

?/???????? :confused: :confused:

50 50 50 50 posts graemlins/hurray.gif

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Originally posted by Bain:

Look L79 I told you via email when you brought your arguments directly to my personal email that you owe me an apology, but now I think you really owe everyone an apology for fueling the wrong attitude about this subject. Whatr can you do to help Chevelle owners in this situation other than berating me, the point is can you help document this car or disprove it one way or another, if you can't I suggest you go somewhere in Chevelletech where you can be of help, if you can I welcome your help lets find out! Let's set something straight. I have never received an e-mail from you and I have never sent you an e-mail. I am the moderator who shut down a number of your threads in the Restoration Forum because they served no purpose. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt up to a point but the double speak and clearly manufacturing of "facts" has taken this beyond the realm of meaningful discussion.

In the event you haven't been listening, many folks have pretty clearly pointed out that your car is not what you want to claim it to be so the job of proving or disproving it is done. Trying to change the facts of the car to fit the COPO picture won't make it what it is not.

Started by Armorman | Last post by Armorman

Don't worry Tim nobody tried to deceive anyone, in my ebay listings the word was possible COPO, when I found the 5th owner and the guy who owned it for 20 years I stopped the ad becasue it looked like I might be abnle to gain some certainty on the issue, and I was getting two different responses "nice car or not a very nice person your trying to trick me". The thuth is I didn't know one way or another and when people did call me I told them to buy it is a clone
So the worst you could accsue me of is using advertsing to get peoples attention.

But blatent misrepresentation to trick someone into paying what a fair price for an expertly rebuilt date correct and numbers matching car, ? Wheres the fraud??? I wouldn't feel comfortable sticking to a person for 50000 plus lieing as to my certainty it was a COPO.

We will know the truth soon, I hope and I feel that based on what I kow about the car it will turn out to be a COPO, maybe wishful thinking, but I hope to know by weesk end.

Hey Tim do you have television show?????

IT AINT SO TIM, what I wnat to know is why some guy at ss454 from yenko@yenko.net became interested in my cowl tag, since he was one of the guys who said it couldn't be a COPO, and represented that he as a lot of the records and that VIN's don't matter. And now won''t respond to myt question if my VIN is on his list ?? Strangly silent for a guy who said it couldn't be.

This man also accused me of making up this Greg guy and asked why didn't he buy your car on ebay if he could document it as a COPO. good question, maybe Greg didn't know it was on ebay or maybe thats kind of stuff Yenk@yenko.net does hmmm makes you wonder


Bain:
I just received this in my Inbox...apparently you felt the need to run off at the mouth ON A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MESSAGE BOARD? Why? All because I didn't tell you what you wanted to hear? Classy...

I'm curious: when have I been silent? I've answered a 1/2 dozen of your emails, and replied numerous times in this thread...yet you felt compelled to post on an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT MESSAGE BOARD that I "won't respond to your question"?

And even better than that, you posted ON ANOTHER MESSAGE BOARD that I questioned why Greg didn't buy it if he had all this paperwork? Well, that wasn't ME that posted that, but an entirely different user...in fact, that very user sent me a note telling me NOT to tell you JACK because you were simply "fishing". But I preceded to help, and look where it got me...

Bain: do us all a favor and print this off so I don't have to type this again:

- "NO", we DO NOT have your VIN# in our database of REAL COPO cars. This is the 4th time I've told you this, via both emails and posts.

- "YES", we do have a record of your car, but it simply states that it was being sold as a "COPO" yet it had no paperwork, an incorrect rear, an incorrect block, and a WAY TOO EARLY build date. This is not only my research, but of several others who were looking at it while it was being shopped around the last YEAR.

- My username is "Chevy454"...on EVERY single message board I visit. I've used that handle on the net for 8+ years now, and have been around this forum with this same handle for a long, LONG time. Again, it's "Chevy454"...it's not "SS454" or "ss454" or "Ls6Convertible".

- I've since heard that you bought this car on a "whim" that it was a COPO, and got hung with it, and are now trying to unload it.

I've bent over backwards trying to help you with this car, and that is the thanks I get...awesome. Good luck with your research, and you'd better HOPE AND PRAY your paperwork deal pans out, because I'm done helping...

Sorry about that Chevy 454 but you have not said in 4 different emails that is' NOT a COPO and IF YOU DID I WOULD HAVE NOT " RUN OFF WITH THE MOUTH LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE ON THIS WEB SIGHT"
You don't have the VIN on your list yet you care about a cowl tag, you claim your looking and helping but talk to me like you have. Some how I doubt it. It's probably on your list and you just don't want to admit it.

Anyway I didn't gett hung with the car, don't listen to that nonsense. I paid very little for the car becasue of it's condition. The guy I bought it from bought it from "Omar" Golden classics in Florida for 14000, I paid a lot less.

If I got hung it was in what I spent rebuilding it to be a good car something we are all guilty of. And I am proud of the job I did.

Fess up what have you found about the car specifically in your research Dad

Originally posted by Bain:
Fess up what have you found about the car specifically in your research Dad He just did ........... :rolleyes:

graemlins/clonk.gif I feel ill

Is this for real or am I dreaming.....I feel like I fell asleep with Saturday night live on the TV in the background and this is just so "skit gone bad"

Really graemlins/boring.gif

Yea thats a good metaphor can I use that :D

Bain, you've received a lot of feedback on your chevelle in the past while. Take some time out and review what's been said.
This topic has ran it's course and is being put to sleep.