Well let me just start out saying that i am quite a bit lost on this. I have completly taken the front of the car about a few times and this is the closest i have gotten but it still doesn't fit. The fenders have a nice gap on both sides that the doors do not hit when they open, they follow the body lines pretty close, not perfect but close enough for this driver. I have also replaced the hinges with some i got off an el camino, so i actually have 4 hinges to play with.

Basicly the hoods hits the header panel, and it hits it by about 1/8" and it needs to go back atlesat 1/4" to look normal with the rest of the lines. I can't push the hood back anymore in the slots and am wondering if i need to elongate these? Please let me know. This car has been in an accident, i will take and post pictures tonight if i rememebr to give a better idea.

What size are the door to fender gaps? Try to loosen the hinge to fender bolts and lift up on the hood front to it's maximum limit and have someone else tighten up the hinge bolts. This will rotate the hood backwards and down in the rear so it may be necessaryto then loosen the rearward bolts and raise the back of the hood some if to low. You could slot the hinge holes more but that's the butcher's way out IMO, better to find the problem and fix it. Is this a factory hood?

It is a factory SS hood, *I THINK* it came with the car, and i am guessing it is.

So you are saying losen to two front bolts on the hood or the bracket to the fender? The hood is basicly to long is what it is acting like. I know if i lift it up on the slot on the back bold the hood sits so high it has like a 1/2" different between the top of the fender and the top of the hood.

I had some body working tools and they were red shims with magnets that i used to make the space between the door and the fender, not sure if colors mean anything but i c an't measure it until i get home. MAYBE 1/16" maybe 1/8"??

Arent the front ends on the El caminos and wagons different than the cars?If so,maybe the hinges are slightly different??

Is this a 68? Do you have 68 hinges on a 69 hood or vice-versa? There is a difference.
Try loosening all 4 hinge to fender bolts, then lift up the front of the hood and have someone tighten the bolts.
Ron

The hood must be from a 1969 model, if you have a 68 and 68 hinges. They changed the hood and hinges slightly for the 69 model year. It will not bolt up to the 68. You need to get the correct 69 hinge. I'm assuming that you have a 68 by your profile name. You could also have a 68 hood and 69 hinges. The 68 hood is a little harder to come by as there were less made, I believe. I have an extra set of 68 hinges if you need some. Take some measurements of your hood and hinge bolt hole spacing, and I can probably help you out with this.

Ok let me reply to the topics that i have incorrect hinges for the hood. Both hinges are off 68s for sure, and i did not need to redrill holes for this hood. The hood bolt holes line up perfectly with the hinge, the hood just sticks out to far. It did not before the accident, but i have replaced the fenders with an el camino. To my understanding the 68 year there was nothing different on the front clip. It also has a radiator support off the el camino, as in mine was damageed.

Currently the hood is pushed as far back as i can on the bolts for where the hood meetst he hinge, and the hinge is pulled up on both of the slots where the hinge meets the fender. I will post pics tonight.

How well does the front valence panel line up with the edges of the front fenders? If the valence is back farther that might be a problem. I take it you changed front valence panel after the wreck. Is the valence panel a new one or a used one or a fixed (wrecked) piece? It is possible to move that valence panel around when bolting it up. I know that elcamino and wagon fenders differed from the chevelles 1970 on but I am not too sure about 68-69.

Sounds like you got the right hinges and hood though. Are those repo fenders? Does the back of the fenders line up with the hood? If they line up at the back there is something amiss at the front.

All the sheetmetal is original or NOS, definatly not repo the stuff fit to well and nice thick steel.

The valance i actually used my old one since it had only a small dent but had paint on it (kick myself for selling hte perfect one with no paint on it. The valance lines up nice with teh fenders, i had the problem before and really took a lot of muscle to get the thing lined up but i did.

The back of the fenders does NOT line up with the hood, the hood is about 1/8" or 1/4" more forward than the fenders, thats why i know the hood is just out of adjustment a little but i can't get it right. The chrome should flow nicely from the back of the hood to the back of the fender but its pretty far off.

If the hood is raised in the back it sounds like it is not going down in the back all the way. If the back drops down it might pull the hood back. Does it overlap the whole length of the valence in the front? Have you tried to leave all the bolt loose (hinge and hood bolts) just to see if it will move into place?

The hood is only raised in the back if i move the rear slot up, if i keep it down it is right on (where it is right now). Have not kept the bolts loose. Yes it overlaps EVEN the entire valence. Thats why i know it just needs to go back.

Easy fix is to slot hinges, might cause other problems though... grille, bumper.
Does the hood seem to be over the valance as much as it seems to be forward of the fenders? Mike

The hinges are bolted to the fenders, the hood is bolted to the hinges.
Wherever you move the fenders the hood goes with them, so it has to be in the hinges.
I assume the header panel is even with the front of the fenders, so you have no adjustment there.
Also if the hood is "up" at the rear, you want to rotate the front of the hing at the fender "down".
I know this seems like the wrong way but it will bring the rear of the hood down to meet the fenders.
I would recheck the hinges and measure them to be really sure they are from a 68 and that the hood is from a 68?
Sounds like something is mismatched?
Is the motor in the car?
If not close the hood and look inside, you may see the problem?
T.C.

What you need to do is loosen the hinge to fender bolts front and back, then lift the front of the hinge and lower the rear so the hinge rotates upward. The passenger side hinge needs to rotate clockwise when viewed from the engine compartment, and the driver's side counterclockwise. This will locate your hood at the farthest position back possible but will also change the height of the rear edge which may need to be adjusted. The hinge to fender slots allow the hinge to rotate some- front can go up while the rear can go down and vise versa, not just a straight up and down adjustment. The 1/8-3/16" you looking for should be easy to get. Hope I made sense.

Originally posted by baddbob71:
What you need to do is loosen the hinge to fender bolts front and back, then lift the front of the hinge and lower the rear so the hinge rotates upward. The passenger side hinge needs to rotate clockwise when viewed from the engine compartment, and the driver's side counterclockwise. This will locate your hood at the farthest position back possible but will also change the height of the rear edge which may need to be adjusted. The hinge to fender slots allow the hinge to rotate some- front can go up while the rear can go down and vise versa, not just a straight up and down adjustment. The 1/8-3/16" you looking for should be easy to get. Hope I made sense. I think I already said the same thing above, have you tried it?
Ron

Ok the hood and hinges are definatly matched, they worked before the accident and the holes line up on the new hinges i got.

The hood is about equal to far out in the front as it is to far in in the back. Baddbob71 yours kind of makes sense but without the tthing infront of me its hard to say where it is positioned right now. I will try something tomorrow, and post some pics if i still can't get it.

The hood is also NOT up in the rear, it is sitting flat right now

gUmBaLL68Malibu,
If the hood and hinges are definitely matched, then why did you type "I THINK" in your second post? I would have never even brought the 68-69 hood issue up if you were so sure. If it was hit in the front hard enough to have to replace fenders and the radiator support, could there be a frame issue, possibly enough to push the radiator support back a slight amount? I have that problem right now (Frame is tweaked slightly, but throws the support out of whack), but luckily I scored a perfect frame this weekend!

It sure sounds like Bob is on the mark with this one.
Gumball, I know this concept is strange but read the following text, give it a try. This adjustment is the "Holy Grail" of hood fitting.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>

"Basics of Basics" Panel alignment.
By Brian Martin

Hood alignment: Let’s start with raising and lowering the rear of the hood. If the car you are working on has a hinge that sits on top of the cowl, your only options are to shim or bend the hinge. Bending the hinge slightly is one way to move it. If you need to come up in the rear you can put a small block of wood or other item on the hinge, to bend it. When you close the hood down (NOT ALL THE WAY) it will get in the way of the hood closing and bend the rear or the hinge up. If you need to bend it down, the only option may be to remove it and bend it a little. You can also shim the bolts between the hood and the hinge, more on this later.
If you have a hood where the hinge mounts on the side of the fender like in an older car or truck, you want to "rotate" the hinge on the fender. Just pushing the hinge up and down will give you very little movement on the top of the hood.
This is the strange little trick that you have to remember, if you raise the back of the hood on the hinge or raise the back of the hinge on the fender the hood will go up. If you raise the "front" of the back of the hood ON THE HINGE or the hinge to the fender it will go down. What you have to remember is you are working with a pivot point in the hinge, not a stationary part.
If you loosen the FRONT bolt on the hood (where it bolts to the hinge) and put a shim, or washer between the hood and hinge, this will LOWER the hood on that side. If you put that same washer under the rear bolt it will RAISE the rear of the hood on that side.
So, if you loosen the bolts from the hinge to fender and close the hood, the hinge will rotate on down in the front right? This will raise the REAR of the hood like putting a shim in the back bolt between the hinge and hood!
What you need to do to lower the back the hood is to loosen the bolts (only slightly) and PUSH UP on the front of the hood. This rotates the hinges back, thus raising the front of the hinge and lowering the hood in the back.
If the hinges are warn out it won’t change how high the hood sits when the wear, not by more than a fraction of an inch. And I have never seen a car with these style hinges that you couldn't put the hood a half inch LOWER than the fenders if you wanted to. The adjustment is HUGE on these cars. That is one of the things that is easy to do on them is align panels.
I recommend you remove the striker or latch from the hood so that you can move it up and down without worrying about the latch grabbing the hood. After you have aligned the hood, take a piece of dumb-dumb or clay or something similar and put it on the latch. This way you can see exactly where it hits when you do install the latch. You bring the hood down till you just tap this dumb-dumb but DON'T LATCH IT. Just so the hood makes an indentation in the clay/dumb-dumb. This tells you where you have to move the latch.
I do this at work everyday, by my self so if you can't get help this is the trick. Always leave one bolt on the hinge tight. If you want to rotate it back, leave the front bolt tight. If you want to rotate it forward, leave the rear bolt tight. When you move the hood forward or back on the hinge, leave the bolts snug enough that you have to tap on the edge of the hood to get it to move. Or if it needs to go back, leave the bolts a little snug, and wiggle the hood up and down and the weight of the hood will make it slide down. Remember it only needs a 1/16" or so to make a 3/16" or more change at the front. To pull the hood forward on the hinge loosen them so they are still a little snug so you have to pull up on the back of the hood to make it slide that little bit. If you loosen it up so it moves anywhere you want it, YOU WILL NEVER KNOW HOW MUCH YOU MOVED IT AND YOU WILL MOVE IT TOO MUCH, GUARANTEED.
Get the hood laying flat first, then move the hood forward or back on each side to make the hood fit the hole between the fenders. If the gap is large on the front right and small on the front left, then the hood needs to me moved back on the right side. As you move the hood back on a side it will close up the gap in the front of that side and open it at the rear of that side.
You may need to move fenders too. Just do each change slowly, move it VERY LITTLE. Look at the bolt and washer as you move the panel, you will see where the washer used to be, the amount is much easier to control if you watch the washer movement.
If you need to move the hood up or down at the front, you have a few ways to do it. First, on each side there are the “bumpers”. The hood bumpers are located at each front corner and look like a bolt with a rubber pad on top. Just unlock the jam nut and raise or lower the “bolt” so it holds the hood at the height you need to match the fender. You may find that the hood won’t go low enough even with the bumper down far enough. The latch may not be down far enough. When you close the hood, you shouldn’t be able to pull up on the hood or push it down. The latch should be tight enough to hold it against the bumpers tight, but not too tight. If you have to apply too much force to open the hood or it opens with a loud POP, the latch is probably too tight. If it is at the right height but you can lift it up some, then the latch needs to be moved down.

Doors: If the doors are off the car, bolt the hinges to the door and the cowl in the middle of the movement allowed. Let’s face it, it “shouldn’t” be too far off the center of holes. If the doors are on or if after putting them on things are way out of whack, raise the door up on the hinges as far as it will go while still staying about the right height. You always want to start high, it is much easier to come down than go up. Besides this is the ONLY time you will loosen all the bolts on the door. I don’t mean ALL the bolts, leave the hinge to cowl (or center post on a four door) tight. Only loosen the door to hinge bolts. Unless it is WAY down then you may need to move the hinges up too. But do one at a time, both door to hinge or both hinge to cowl/center post.

While moving the hinges aligning the door NEVER loosen all the bolts on the hinge, NEVER. Loosen all but one, just till it is still a little looser than “snug”. Leave that last on just a little snug. Let’s say the door fits well but is a little too far forward. NEVER loosen top and bottom hinges and move it forward. Loosen the top hinge to cowl/center post as described above and lift the rear of the door, a LITTLE. This will push the upper hinge forward. Now TIGHTEN that one bolt that was left snug. Do the same on the lower hinge, pushing down, but remember the weight of the door is helping, so little push is needed.
If the door fits well but is out at the top or the bottom, again, loosen ONE hinge to DOOR in the manner described and push it out or in. If it is out or in at the top rear for instance, move the bottom front in the opposite direction. This will pivot the door on the striker, and move the rear top where you want. Moving the bottom rear takes moving the top front of course.

You may need to twist the door. If the front fits well and rear is out at the top (or bottom, just reverse) you can put a block of wood at the rear of the door at the top lets say and push in on the bottom to twist the door. Some will take a LOT of force to bend, and be VERY careful not to let your fingers hang around the outside of the door edge!! I lost a finger nail doing this on a ’69 Shelby GT500 convertible once (remember it well) when the block of wood fell out with all my weight on the door while twisting!!

Tip: If you are hanging the door and you have access to the hinges (either through the wheel well with the skirt off or if the fender it’s self is off) you can simply hold the door up to the opening and push the latch shut. Then put the bolts in the hinge. I can often install doors all by my self in this way.

Deck lid: The trunk lid is pretty much like the hood but the hinges don’t move at all on the body (usually). So shimming and twisting are a few of your only options beyond the movement in the slotted holes on the hinge. Bending the hinge or pushing up or down on the sides of the quarters, front or rear panel are the others. These should be done ONLY after all other things are tried.

Fenders: Most of the tips for doors and the hood work here, with a little twist or two. Start with fitting the rear top of the fender. I like to put all the bolts in, loose. Not falling out loose, just so the fender would easily move. Close the door, and with the hood open adjust the gap at the top of the rear of the fender to door. After you tighten other bolts this cannot be modified so, do it first. Tighten the bolt under the hood closest to the door to secure the position. You may need to shim a bolt at the rear of the fender to the cowl, to move the fender forward or back. After you have that bolt tight and the gap is to your liking open the door and tighten the rear fender bolt that is at the top of the fender in the door jamb. Now do the bottom bolt, with the door closed, adjust your gap. You may need to wedge a flat blade screwdriver or body spoon to “force” the fender forward to get the desired gap. Or just the opposite, use a 2x4 or something similar off the front tire to force the fender back to get the gap. This is one of the hard spots to get nice because you have to get both the gap and the in and out of the fender to door at the same time with the same bolt. Some cars have two bolts that are far enough apart to get the gap and tighten the front bolt and then pull the fender in or out and tighten the rear bolt to get the flush fit of the panels.


General tips: Bending a panel or adjacent panel is sometimes required. You can get this done in a number of ways, one is to use a block of wood. Let’s say that along the edge of the hood there is a spot that is high. Well you can’t adjust it down, the front and the rear are perfect. So you can lay a block of wood on the spot, right at the edge where it is strong. Using a big hammer (the bigger the better, trying to make a small hammer do the job can cause a lot of damage) hold the block and strike it nice and solid. Then check the results, you may need many strikes to do it. In doing this you may want to support the hood at the front with a block of wood under the hood. This way the hood is up off the fender and it will bend easier because of the solid rest it has. You can also put the block under the edge of the hood at a low spot and with steady pressure bend it down at a point if you need it.

If you are working with very tight tolerances, you can actually grind the edge of a panel or jamb to get an extra fraction of an inch. Be VERY careful and using a fine disk like 80 or 120 take a LITTLE off. You don’t want to grind the metal thin of course but a LITTLE can make a big difference when you are fighting for fractions. Now, you really won’t be cutting too much metal, you are really just cleaning off ALL the primer and paint there. Then when you prime it, don’t put a lot or sand it thin so there will be very little on the edge.

You may want to paint the hinge with a little contrasting paint. Do it with the hinge bolted on, right over the bolts. This way you can see easier how much you have moved it.

These are just ideas that I have used over the years and some may work for you some won’t, but it is a start.

I said *I THINK* it was a factory SS hood. I have no idea about that but i know that the hinges match the hood, because the 69 hoods won't line up with the bolt holes for the 68 hinges. That is why i said i think.

The frame is definatly tweaked al ittle, right below the battery. But it isn't tweaked on both sides so i would think that the hood would fit funny on that side but i think i adjusted the fenders and whatnot enough to make up for this difference.

Ok home sick today, i went out and took some pics of the hood, i am going to try the things that are said but this might help any problems with my terrible explaining skills.

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/gUmBaLL68Malibu/Body1.jpg
http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/gUmBaLL68Malibu/Body2.jpg
http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/gUmBaLL68Malibu/Body3.jpg

Here is the frame damage, it isn't to hard to see but the frame bends inward towards the engine bay a bit right where their is already a factory bend.

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/gUmBaLL68Malibu/Frame1.jpg

im no expert but you may be able to move your radiator support closer to the drivers side, but that may make the hood out of square?

You need to get the frame straightened, any bends will reduce the rail's overall length which would position the radiator support rearward causing some of the grief you're experiencing. Looks like a 2-3hr. pull plus setup and measure time $200-$250?

The frame damage is minimal, the core support on these cars moves a bunch. The basic problem is the hood no longer goes into the hole. The hinges bolt to the fenders, the hood bolts to the hinges. It looked to me in one of the above pictures that the header panel is too far rearward, but this would still not explain why the hood is too far forward from the rear of the fenders. The hinge is too high on the front bolts, judging from the hood being way up in the rear. Here's a question for you, on the gaps at the fender to the door, are they parallel, or are they wider at the bottom than the top?
Let us know...

It looks to me like the right front corner is sucked back towards the engine causing a diamond condition within the hood opening and the front panel is bending to allow the left fender to run parallel with the hood edge.

Well i am going tosee about adjusting the core support, i think that might be my issue, where are the adjustments on the core support? If i don't figure it out it will just be going to a real body man to have him fix it. I think i did pretty good with really no idea what the heck i was doing in the first place.

You just loosen the big bolts that hold the core support to the frame. There is some play there to mess with. Be on the look out for very badly rusted bolts and nuts on those. Those are the core support bushing so if they have not been replaced they can be tough to get out. They do sell new ones at all the repo places though.

I just replaced the core support bushings while the front end was apart so it won't be to hard to get them off.

I dont think its the core support, you need to lower the rear of the hood, that will pull the hood toward the rear. Have you loosened all 4 hinge to fender bolts and pushed up on the front of the hood? Hold it up high and have someone snug the bolts up.
Ron

Do exactly what Ron just said.
Hood position has absolutely nothing to do with the radiator support or how well the fenders line up with the doors.. You could take the whole nose off the car and put it together on the floor and still have the same problem. You have to get the hinge to fender correct or it will never fit right. The hood is bolted to the fenders with the hinge, and the only way to move the hood back is with those bolts. Has nothing to do with anything else..

try slamming it hard twice it should alighn itself.

Ok i will try that (not the slamming thing) when i get home tonight, i keep thinking it HAS to be the hinges because the hinges bolt to the fenders and the nose is straight inline with the fenders so i can't move that out anymore.

WILL DO!!

Originally posted by 71SSBB:

Hood position has absolutely nothing to do with the radiator support or how well the fenders line up with the doors.. You could take the whole nose off the car and put it together on the floor and still have the same problem. . I beg to differ with that statement.
The position of the radiator support will determine IF the hood opening is square.
Yes, the hindges are bolted to the fenders, but if the hole isn't square, the hood will NOT fit correctly. Period! It's all relative...Also, not only can the core support be moved from side to side, you can also adjust up, and down (with shims if necessary) which can affect the fender to door gaps. Moving the core support too far to one side, will open the fender to door gap on the oposite side, and tighten up the gap on the side it was moved towards. Up and down movement can cause the gap to be tight at the top, and wide at the bottom, or visa versa.
Pick a spot on the cowl, (bolt hole) and a spot on the core support that is the same on both sides. Cross measure the opening to check for square. Move the core support IF necessary until the opening is square. Snug it down, THEN move on.

I agree Zman, you need to start with alignment of doors to 1/4's then work your way forward. Then go back and fine tune EVERYTHING a couple dozen more times.Checking for square is a good tip. Mike

The hood opening square is about 1/4" off from being square. Should it be EXACTLY square or can it be a bit off? I am going to try the hood thing today, got busy last night and never got around to it, then i will start messing with the core support.

BTW when i did start i did start from the fenders to the doors, i got them very close to perfect on one side and the other side lines up perfect. So i know i started with good intentions just can't believe how much a little shim can throw everything one way or another. Anyway I am learning.

A quarter inch isn't "that" much off but it is off. Did you arrive at that after doing a few different measurements? You don't want to rely on only one measurement being your measuring points may be off or you could error in some other way. Doing multiple measurements to confirm is always best.

I happen to have a funny example for you. Right now in the shop we have a 69 Chevelle. A SUPER nice car (I am not kidding, most of you guys from the rust belt would eat a puppy for this car) that hit a curb HARD and bend the frame right behind the front suspension on the drivers side. Anyway, our resident frame man did the repair. He did a super job on the frame but ended up with the front sheetmetal out of square about 3/8". I found this out by being nosey smile.gif Anyway I thought he was done being it was given to me for wheel alignment. The hood looked like it wouldn't even close, like it would hit the drivers fender and chip the (near) perfect paint. I brought him over to check it out and he said it was done and slammed the hood! It did close, it looked good while closed, but it was NOT right doing it this way. I can't save them all. :(

gummy on a lighter note if the slamming the hood 2wice dont work. was it a direct frontal hit or was it an angle crash? if it were me ,i would get the ole tape measure out and measure the distance from frame to pinch weld under the sides . write the measurements down geaux to other side measure in the same locations. compare your measurements. if it is crooked, loosen the body bolts and shift it untill it is square. then work your way to the front. starting with the door to quarter . i bet if you try all that has been suggested to you in the other posts with exception of the slamming the hood down. you will persaviere. stole that word from outlaw jose wells good luck

Ok i moved the hood all the way to the top and it is REALLY close now, it latches on both but it still hits the header panel. I willt ake some measurements this weekend and post them, i only took one measurement so i am not 100% if i did it right or if it has changed since then so i will cehck it out and let ya know. I will also try to get it square if it isn't.

Wish me luck.

68 hoods and hinges will bolt to 69 hoods and hinges. But mixing will cause the misalignment.
I had to elongate the only rear holes about 1/2 inch to make it fit right. The spacing of the holes is different between 68 and 69. Or make sure you have a 68 hood and hinge combo/69 hood and hinge combo. I had 68 hinges, and a 69 hood.

ctrain22 i was unaware that the hood hinges would actually bolt up from 69 hood to 68 hinge or 69 hinge to 68 hood. I am not getting full play on my hinges with this hood, it does hit the back of the elongated hole but still has room to move on the front. Does this mean i have the wrong hinge/hood combo? Anyone have any pictures of the correct way.

Still no measurements yet, got busy working on the working car smile.gif . Sometimes i have to let it sit for a couple of days so i don't get frustrated.

http://www.chevelles.com/cgi-bin/forum/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/3/11741.html?
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Gumball...that's right. The forward hole has enough romm for adjustment. It's the rear holes that has to be elongated. It sounds like you have the same exact problem I had, and opening the rear hole solved it. It may not be the correct way, but it worked. The distance betweeen the holes, center to center is the problem.

Try another set of hood hinges that you know open and close a hood properly, even if you have to buy a new set. We had the same problem with a '70 hood, we put on another set of hinges and problem sloved.

Excellent advice given!

You cant get an 1/8 out of the front nose and an 1/8 out hood hinges? You may have to settle for a little off and split the diff.

Try another set of hood hinges that you know open and close a hood properly, even if you have to buy a new set. We had the same problem with a '70 hood, we put on another set of hinges and problem sloved.

Excellent advice given!


You cant get an 1/8 out of the front nose and an 1/8 out hood hinges? You may have to settle for a little off and split the diff.

Well I hope he has the problem solved by now, that was almost 2 years ago.

Lets hear "THE REST OF THE STORY" gUmBaLL68Malibu

Ha!

i hate to see a conflict go unresolved in the hood