I recently had my electrical system worked on and repaired. Everything was working great. I was cleaning up around the horn relay and disconnected it. Later I installed it back and the horn would not work. Looking over the bumper, the left connector has two hookups and right one connector. The green wire on the first male connector on the right. The black is right behind it. I at first had the black on the single one on the left. Got a clunking sound. Quickly disengaged and installed it on the other side. Did I damgage something since the horn just clicks now?

the relay should have numbers by the connectors
#2 is the 20 gauge black wire (coming from horn button)
#3 is the 14 gauge (thicker) black wire (going to the horns)
#4 pink with black stripe (key buzzer)
the two that are jumped together on front are 16 gauge black (fusable link),10 gauge red (goes to alt, batt & voltage regulator #3 pin and is changed to orange which is 20 gauge fusable link to the #3 pin of vr

Ok guys I have it connected correctly. Still get a clink sound. Is the horns bad? Relay shorted out? :confused:

Hang a test light from the horn wire output to ground. If the relay makes the light go on and off, check the horns.

John

I took your advice, this is what happend. At the horn wire connection no light at all. At the lack ground connection behind it I got a light at the front two connections I got a light and at the lone connection I got a weak light and a buzz sound.

sounds like the wire between the horn relay and the horns has gone bad if you have power at the relay but not the horns
the buzz you hear on the one is the key buzzer and is where the pink wire goes

This is very confusing. The horn wirewasworking 10 minutes prior to this. All I did was disconnect the horn relay and retape some areas. How could the wire go bad that quick? The electrical side of a car is really confusing? :confused: graemlins/sad.gif :( graemlins/angry.gif

No, electricity is simple - it always works if you give it the proper path. One thing that will never change about working on old cars is that sometimes a particular item just barely has what it needs to work, then the last few strands of wire are broken in the process of disassembly - ask me how I know smile.gif You are working on an old car, some of the crusty items you are disturbing as you work on the car would rather not have been moved.

Go look up the Basics of Electricity post in the electrical forum - you need to read this.

Thomas

is it working now
did repairing the wire fix it

No. It is not working now. Not sure as to were to go now.

Anyone want to make any suggestions?

Aaron, Aaron, Aaron, what are we going to do with you smile.gif

You have (2) Choices, follow the directions I give you below, or buy me a case of beer and a round-trip plane ticket and I'll fix it for you. ;)


First off, get a piece of scrap wire, must be long enough to reach each horn and the (+) battery terminal.

Remove the connectors that feed power to the horns COMPLETELY. Now take the scrap wire and touch one end to the (+) battery terminal and the other to EACH horn connector terminal, one at a time. Do you hear a loud honking sound?


If the answer is YES, read on, if no, post a reply!


Now, get a test light, YES GET A TEST LIGHT, there is no excuse not to have one. A voltmeter would be better, but some people just won't go there. Connect the test light's wire to the (+) battery terminal. Connect the pointing "tip" of the test light to the terminal on the black wire that feeds back into the car (the horn control wire). Have an assistance (preferrably a good looking one) honk the horn. Does the test light light up? IF yes, read on, if no REPLY BACK.

Now, take the test light's wire lead and connect it to a good clean, ground. Take the pointy "tip" of the test light and touch it to the horn relay's junction screws (the terminals that hold the B+ wires. Does it light???

Post back your results or be prepared to buy the above mentioned items at the beginning of this post.

;)

The following link has a complete horn operation diagnosis. It is the same for all GM horns.
http://www.corvettefaq.com/redir.asp?site=649

The first page is very generic. You probably won't need to go any further.

However, if the horn problem seems to be centered in the steering column or steering wheel horn button, then you will need the other pages. The second page talks about the Corvette T&T steering column. You can just consider a T&T steering column to be a glorified tilt column and go from there.

There are a number of steering column papers (both standard and tilt) at:
www.corvettefaq.com/A-car.asp (http://www.corvettefaq.com/A-car.asp)

I need to check this site as well. My horns don't work, but I know my problem is somewhere in the wiring from the steering column to the relay. I just have to figure out how to get in there and find it. I can see the horn wire/spring when I remove my steering wheel cap, but I can't trace where it comes out at the bottom of the column.

Originally posted by 71boo:
I need to check this site as well. My horns don't work, but I know my problem is somewhere in the wiring from the steering column to the relay. I just have to figure out how to get in there and find it. I can see the horn wire/spring when I remove my steering wheel cap, but I can't trace where it comes out at the bottom of the column. What happens when you jumper the copper strip on the horn ring to a good clean spot on the DASH, not the steering column?

Ummmmm, I will have to try that. Actually, I think the last time I tried fixing this problem, I did try that. I unplugged the black wire going into the relay (coming from the harness connected to the firewall). I then put in a jumper wire and grounded it and I got crazy sparks!!

Let me step back. First, I jumpered both horns to the battery and got honks. Second, with my key in ignition and door open, my relay buzzes. Third, I took off steering wheel cap, and visually checked for the wire/spring inside the column, and it was there. Finally, I tried the above and got zapped. At that point, I left things alone.

Originally posted by 71boo:
I unplugged the black wire going into the relay (coming from the harness connected to the firewall). I then put in a jumper wire and grounded it and I got crazy sparks!!

You disconnected the black wire.
You jumpered the relay terminal where the black wire was tied to.
You jumpered this terminal to a good ground.
You have a good connection from the battery because everything else works.
The relay did not close or "click".
Bad relay.

Coppetop

Thanks for your patience and reply. I'm learning about the electrical side as I go. I hope I do not have to fly you here and buy a case of beer for you. HA HA.

These are my findings:

1. (+) battery terminal (Connection for green wire) to the horns themselves. NOTHING.

2. (+) battery terminal to black wire terminal by way of a test light and horn honking. NOTHING.

3. Good clean ground to junction screws. YES, I DO HAVE A LIGHT.

I also ran the scrap wire from BOTH junction screws to the horns. I got a honk on one horn, but not the other. This occurred the sameway from both junction screws.

Thanks

Originally posted by Aaron:
Coppetop

Thanks for your patience and reply. I'm learning about the electrical side as I go. I hope I do not have to fly you here and buy a case of beer for you. HA HA.

These are my findings:

1. (+) battery terminal (Connection for green wire) to the horns themselves. NOTHING.

2. (+) battery terminal to black wire terminal by way of a test light and horn honking. NOTHING.

3. Good clean ground to junction screws. YES, I DO HAVE A LIGHT.

I also ran the scrap wire from BOTH junction screws to the horns. I got a honk on one horn, but not the other. This occurred the sameway from both junction screws.

Thanks Aaron,

Okay, if I'm understanding your reply correctly, sounds like you've go multiple problems... :(


My first thought is to get the horn control circuit functioning again. If your test light did not light up when the horn button was pressed and one side of the light went to the B+ terminal and the other went to the black wire that leads back inside the car to the horn button, you've got some circuit trouble to track down.


First off, make sure the connector fitting on the end of the wire is not all corroded on the inside or hanging by one strand of copper. If that's okay double check the black wire (as far as you can till it disappears within the car interior for breaks/damage. What your telling me is there is NO ground signal from the horn button and you must find out why first before you move on to the other issues.

There's whats called a rag joint by the steering box under the hood. There is either a piece of braided copper or a metallic coupling of some sort that provides a ground from the car frame to the actual steering column. This is the only way the column gets a good ground, and how the horn button gets a good ground as well. IF this is screwed up, there is no ground at the column, and thus when you honk the horn, no ground is being "seen" by the black wire. If the black wire doesn't see ground, then one side of the horn relay won't be grounded (remember it sees + at all times on the other side of the relay coil because it is directly connected to the junction screws that attached to the battery + feed connections) AND SO your horns won't honk.

Post back once you get the black wire (small 20 gauge wire approxiamately)to see ground each time the button is pressed.

First things first -----> Aaron, my apologies dude. I did not mean to step in on your post. I am trying to understand this electrical stuff myself. After reading the posts from John and Coppertop, and the link to the Corvette site, I might have either a bad relay or my steering column is not properly grounded. I am gonna check that rag joint issue first, and go ahead and replace the horn relay as well. I will see what happens from there. Aaron, keep us posted on your progress!! I am curious to see how it will turn out.

Coppertop

Allwires and connections are good to go. After reading your last reply I noticed that my steering column is not a factory unit. The previous owner installed a new ididit column from CPP. I noticed that at the rag joint that it is missing and the coupling is not there. What is the best way to repair that? Why did the horn work before after getting my car back from the wiring harness being repaired? :eek:

71boo, no problem. The more input the better. I believe mine is a bad relay or steering column issue. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

All of the GM flexible couplings before 1970 had either a grounding copper strip or a thin wire around the center hole in the rubber coupling. It is quite hard to see with the coupling installed in your car. Starting around 1970 a thin screen was molded into the face of the rubber disc. This provided the ground path. You can usually feel the sharp, thin wires around the edge of the disc on these later flex couplings. (All service flex couplings are made this way.) NOS may have the ground strap or wire.

Many times the horn may also ground through the the actual steering column because in the 60s and early 70s, they were made of steel tubes, bearings, and die castings. The ground path could be right into the instrument panel.

The later steering columns (mid 70s and later)had plastic column parts that effectively prevented the column from being the ground path.