wheel hop [Archive] - Chevelle Tech

: wheel hop


freshayr
Apr 12th, 04, 8:33 AM
Can someone help me out here. what exactly causes wheel hop. (vs. just spinning and not hopping) I have alot of wheel hop on my 71. Will wider tires help this. I really don't want to get into traction bars, etc. because I want to keep a stock look. I did a search here and really didn't see this issue addressed at length. (which surprised me)

bradford
Apr 12th, 04, 8:46 AM
if you don't want to get into traction bars and such. put a good set of rear shocks on the car such as monroe sensatrac. then install solid alumiunum bushings in the lower rear control arms, they will have grease zerks for lubing the pivot. this is how my 68 is set up with a 4:10 gearing 12 bolt posi, there may be other suggestions.

riskyvt
Apr 12th, 04, 9:04 AM
Originally posted by freshayr:
Can someone help me out here. what exactly causes wheel hop. One of the most common causes for wheel hop is a car with a raised suspension (tall springs in the rear) or sloppy bushings in the rear trailing arms. Any combo of these conditions may start wheel hop. A cure, which is easy to do, can be found in the installation of Lakewood or Edelbrock "No-hop" bars. These are not like the "ladder bars" of years ago. Ladder bars will result in a harsh ride, but do cure the wheel hop. No-Hop bars install on the rear axle housing and re-locate the upper, rear control arm mounting point in a position that is higher & forward from stock. This results in moving your pinion angle upward, changing the instant center of your car. They're easily installed and are not visible unless you're laying on the ground. I installed a set of Edelbrock's on my '72 SS and all wheel hop went away. Traction is another story.... :D

RedSS454
Apr 12th, 04, 9:21 AM
We had exactly the same problem as you did with our 71. We ordered AC Delco shocks through Ground Up and all new rear bushings (the stock rubber ones) and new upper control arms (all gotten through Ground Up)and new springs, which corrected the pinion angle (which is a cause of wheel hop) and helped with the weight transfer.

Rigt after that was done, she hooked like she has never hooked before :D . All wheel hop was gone, and she just squatted and ran.

Hope this helps, and good luck with your ride.
Chris

freshayr
Apr 12th, 04, 9:28 AM
Originally posted by RedSS454:
she just squatted and ran.

Oh baby, now you are making the hair on the back of my neck stand up! smile.gif
What exactly is the pinion angle. I assume that has to do with the angle that the driveshaft comes into the rear?????

Bill T SS70
Apr 12th, 04, 10:09 AM
My 70SS also developed wheel hop. I rebuilt the rearend with polly bushings, stock springs etc. No more wheel hop.
This is a street driven car with standard size tires

marilynSS396
Apr 12th, 04, 10:14 AM
Do you have air shocks? I've found that if my shocks are too high (too much air in them) I wheel hop like crazy. but... When the car sits level or only a little higher in the rear the wheel hop turns into a nice smooth spin. Also helps traction

freshayr
Apr 12th, 04, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by marilynSS396:
Do you have air shocks? I've found that if my shocks are too high (too much air in them) I wheel hop like crazy. but... When the car sits level or only a little higher in the rear the wheel hop turns into a nice smooth spin. Also helps traction yes I have air shocks.....they are very old and probably could stand to be replaced.

mr 4 speed
Apr 12th, 04, 10:32 AM
I installed Southside Machine bars (Jeg's sells them now) on my 4 speed 70 SS396 and they cured my wheelhop problems.Factory swaybar hooked right up,and they looked very,very stealth.Just an FYI,my car had stock springs,Monroe shocks and newer rubber bushings before the SSM bars,and I had violent wheelhop.

freshayr
Apr 12th, 04, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by mr 4 speed:
I installed Southside Machine bars (Jeg's sells them now) do you have a part number for them??? I tried a Jegs search for SSM bars, etc. and couldn't find them. thanks

mr 4 speed
Apr 12th, 04, 11:02 AM
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=191757&prmenbr=361

part # is 550-41046

RedSS454
Apr 12th, 04, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by freshayr:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by RedSS454:
she just squatted and ran.

Oh baby, now you are making the hair on the back of my neck stand up! smile.gif
What exactly is the pinion angle. I assume that has to do with the angle that the driveshaft comes into the rear????? </font>[/QUOTE]You got it. The pinion angle is the angle in which the driveshaft runs into the rear. If it is too high (as ours was because we had wagon/elco springs from a previous owner :confused: )the angle is off, and causes wheel hop. With air shocks, this is usually the case. Does your rear sit higher or lower than a stock chevelle appears? Than this might be your problem. Try and replace them with normal shocks and and stock springs, and you might be able to solve your problem, at the same time giving you a nice smooth ride smile.gif .
Good Luck graemlins/thumbsup.gif
Chris

SteveW
Apr 12th, 04, 12:07 PM
My 65 ragtop would hop so bad, I spun the axle shaft an 1/8 of a turn in the housing. I opted to install a set of ladder bars, never looked back. Really nice addition to the 4/11 posi... graemlins/thumbsup.gif

onebadd66
Apr 12th, 04, 12:09 PM
My pinion angle is set at -4deg. Which BTW is also a good starting point.No hopping ,just putting the wheels right were they should be :D

MY VELLE (http://www.prestage.com/Member+Pages/1201.aspx)

SteveW
Apr 12th, 04, 12:20 PM
Onebad66 (Steve), I like the picture of your '66. I see you have it listed as a 383. If I wanted my wheels in the air too ( :eek: ), could I accomplish with about $3,500...or at least build a decent street machine. And would you stick with a stroker?

freshayr
Apr 12th, 04, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by onebadd66:
My pinion angle is set at -4deg. Which BTW is also a good starting point. :D

MY VELLE (http://www.prestage.com/Member+Pages/1201.aspx) see how one thing leads to another.....how do I measure pinion angle??

freshayr
Apr 12th, 04, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by marilynSS396:
Do you have air shocks? I've found that if my shocks are too high (too much air in them) I wheel hop like crazy. but... When the car sits level or only a little higher in the rear the wheel hop turns into a nice smooth spin. Also helps traction i do have air shocks...i don't have them pumped up very high. I will experiment with them now that I know this could be a problem

Thad
Apr 12th, 04, 1:01 PM
As per the air shocks.

If you have them plumbed together, that is both on the same valve, air will shift from side to side, allowing wheel hop.

Putting a seperate valve on each shock might help.

If you want to raise the back of your car, springs are a much better way. But then you start getting into geometry, and raising the back of your car, doesn't help anyway.

onebadd66
Apr 12th, 04, 1:10 PM
Freshayr Things can take a hard LEFT here sometimes smile.gif But pinion angle is measured with a pinion angle finder."competition Engineering makes one for about $22.00.int he Jegs cat.
BTW ditch the air shocks.I run Monroes on all 4 corners and they work great for me graemlins/thumbsup.gif

SteveW Thanx for the words.I think that for $3.500 you can build yourself a real stout small block. Stroker or not.However all that power you make don't mean a thing if you can't get it down where it should be.chassis set up is 1/2 the battle :cool:

MY VELLE (http://www.prestage.com/Member+Pages/1201.aspx)

Xtreme70SS396
Apr 12th, 04, 1:16 PM
I have air shocks, plumbed to one line. I used to have wheel hop really bad, air shocks up or down. All I changed was the bushings on my rear suspension and the wheel hop went away.

freshayr
Apr 12th, 04, 2:47 PM
ahhh....confusion sets in. I don't know where to start. I have air shocks plumbed to one line. I should probably start by getting rid of them. believe it or not, they may be original. It also sounds like I should check the bushings next. Are they rubber? Since this is an unrestored original car, I am sure they are original. After new shocks and perhaps bushings, then start to examine my pinion angle. Does this sounds like the way to go???? Where in this process would you put the anti hop devices mentioned earlier? (sonner or later) wow...thanks to all.

mr 4 speed
Apr 12th, 04, 2:53 PM
Get rid of the air shokcs 1st..get good shocks too,like KYB's
And if wheel hop still persists,replace the lower control arm bushings.Yes,they are rubber too.

RedSS454
Apr 12th, 04, 8:13 PM
I would start with the bushings/shocks and maybe springs (depending on your budget) and upper control on (this worked for me) all depending on your budget. Get that done and see how it works. If it works, Great your ahead of the game. If it doesn't get anti hop/ladder bars, and now not only do you have new bushings and springs that will not need to be replaced for the next 30+ years, but your wheel hop is now under control graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Chris

Bob West
Apr 12th, 04, 10:00 PM
66...did you have a jack under the left front tongue.gif ...I run quicker,same gears,same converter,little more motor,and you pull the wheel???? Mines done it before, just not when the camera man is around :mad:

edit: another vote for SSM liftbars graemlins/thumbsup.gif

mr 4 speed
Apr 13th, 04, 7:46 AM
Bob,I personally saw Steve's (onebad66) car lift the tire on that run..its like someone stole my mind's eye picture of it :D

onebadd66
Apr 13th, 04, 8:15 AM
So you seen my secret Bob? :D Thanx Chris graemlins/thumbsup.gif Again ,it's just the shock choice, parts and set-up.When everything works together,it's a good thing smile.gif

64postie
Apr 13th, 04, 8:59 AM
I agree with 66, I did the same. 4 new monro shocks,new bushings, and some new lowering springs. I had big block springs in there before you would think the rear was coming out of it. :eek: just my 02. Ralph

69chevelle69
Apr 14th, 04, 8:01 PM
i just bought a rear poly bushing kit for the rear id pick one of those up poly all the way round and a set of gas adjust shocks kyb edelbrock tokico any of those three and springs if the budget takes it and if you still have wheel hop which i couldnt see then go for the ssm bars my .02

freshayr
Apr 14th, 04, 8:10 PM
thanks for the input...i was just reading somewhere that the poly bushing aren't necessary unless you're drag racing. they said something about they bind up more than rubber. anybody got an opinion on this?

Slowpoke70
Apr 15th, 04, 5:18 PM
how exactly do you install new bushings? i have some new poly bushings, but i have no idea how they are installed. should i just drive the car to a suspension (lift n lower) shop with bushings in hand? i think a suspension shop should have the right tools, right?

Big James 4XL
Apr 15th, 04, 8:06 PM
Originally posted by freshayr:
thanks for the input...i was just reading somewhere that the poly bushing aren't necessary unless you're drag racing. they said something about they bind up more than rubber. anybody got an opinion on this? I don't know about any binding up but I just did rubber bushings/boxed arms/air bags/sway bar/KYB shocks, and if it road any rougher I'd start taking stuff back out!!! :eek: Launches great though!

In short, I'm very glad I didn't use poly bushings!!!

427L88
Apr 16th, 04, 6:46 AM
Yeah, me too, went with rubber. My wheel hop issue was actually the upper bushings, the ones in the pumpkin housing. Once I put solid uppers on and had the bushings changed out, all traces of hop were gone. Up til then, I had been band-aiding it via other parts.