71 Chevelle SS Convertible [Archive] - Chevelle Tech

: 71 Chevelle SS Convertible


trstam
Aug 11th, 00, 6:15 AM
Considering purchasing one allegedly an LS6 with engine number T1020CPR. Supposedly a numbers matching 4 speed. I have read articles that say there were never LS6's in 71 Chevelles and others that do. My research shows this to be a Turbo 400 LS6 for 71 in a Chevelle, so is it wrong motor? I am confused and want to buy it, but am nervous. Owner no help. Any chance this is correct motor.

FYI your tech pages don't list codes for 71 454's. Can this be updated?

Steve S
Aug 11th, 00, 8:45 AM
I don't see a CPR engine code for chevelle. CPY is a '71 LS6 mated with a TH400 and CPZ is a 71 LS6 mated to a four speed. If it has evidence of factory AC then it definately is not an LS6 car.

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Steve Strasemeier (70SS 396, Fathom Blue/White Stripes)




[This message has been edited by Steve S (edited 08-11-2000).]

trstam
Aug 11th, 00, 10:30 AM
Steve, see this web page. This will show you my confusion. No, the car has no signs of air. http://www.nastyz28.com/sbchevy/spcodea.html

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steve S:
I don't see a CPR engine code for chevelle. CPY is a '71 LS6 mated with a TH400 and CPZ is a 71 LS6 mated to a four speed. If it has evidence of factory AC then it definately is not an LS6 car.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

d1_bradley
Aug 11th, 00, 11:31 AM
Sure its not CPP (with a scratch)? This would be correct for a LS-6 4spd

DZAUTO
Aug 11th, 00, 12:09 PM
tr,
First of all, this is ONLY important if you are wanting to own a legit, numbers matching car. Otherwise, proceed.
Check it out close, test drive it . If all is to your satisfaction and you can buy it for a price that you think is fair---------DO IT! These cars (ESPECIALLY ONES IN GOOD SHAPE) are getting scarce. Nice convertibles are really hard to find. I bought a 70 Malibu conv for my wife 2yrs ago and gave a little more than I wanted to give (about a $1000 more). I have put another $6000 into it and do not regret one dime of it now.

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Tom Parsons

mr 4 speed
Aug 11th, 00, 2:30 PM
A 71 LS-6?! and a convertible?! Sounds fishy to me....possible re-stamp on the block?! I'd check casting codes on the heads AND block,even the intake..does it have aluminum heads? All 71 LS-6's built had 'em....and all 1971 LS-6's where used in Corvette's,188 to be exact..Tonanwanda plant shows a few LS-6 blocks slated for 71 Chevelle applications(hence the engine suffix codes)But,I'm sure they where all test mules.I can just imagine what the seller is asking for this "rare" piece...

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1970 Chevelle SS396/L78/M21/4.10
1972 Olds 442 convertible(455,W25,M40)
1982 Oldsmobile Cutlass 350 Olds,TH350(daily driver)
"Be aware of the possible ramifications of the potential outcome"

trstam
Aug 11th, 00, 3:29 PM
Well, guys. Now I'm really confused. We're talking a good piece of change here, but not even close to what it's worth if it's real. All I've seen so far is pictures. All I can see is a high rise aluminum intake. The emblems are all correct, and it's a 4 speed with the gauge package and cowl hood.

RC 70
Aug 11th, 00, 4:29 PM
My sources also show CPR as 454/425HP and TH400. How long has the present owner had the car? Maybe the "#s matching 4 speed" isn't the right tranny. Is the last six numbers of the cars vin on the engine too? I would look for that, then focus on the transmission, but depending on what he is asking I would still strongly consider buying the car. Let us know what you find out.

70L34
Aug 11th, 00, 8:06 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400645547&r=0&t=0

Is this the car?

I see a 5500 rpm redline tach = 402ci or 365 hp 454. Looks like iron heads on that motor. I would beware the elusive 1971 LS6 unless it's documented to the hilt.

Steve R
Aug 11th, 00, 8:31 PM
I believe this ad to be fishy. When I read the ad I see someone who is positioning themself to defend a lawsuit. They never make a firm claim. I agree that unless there is documentation to back up his "claim" that the car is not a real SS.

Steve R.

trstam
Aug 12th, 00, 3:55 AM
Yes and yes. I believe the ad to be fishy as well. I have attempted numerous times to obtain the vin and other info. No success.

I'm moving on to other pursuits.

Thank you all

Sid Coleman
Aug 13th, 00, 4:39 PM
I agree with "fishy" as well...thought the power top switch was supposed to be on the left side of the radio...right side was for rear defrost switch in a hardtop car?? Although I'd still guess it's worth a good chunk of change-they ARE getting rare, esp. the big blocks.

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71 Ragtop, under construction and over budget!
MCC #347, TC (Gold) #174
N3JHV@bellatlantic.net

DZAUTO
Aug 13th, 00, 5:23 PM
I do not want to offend ANYONEHERE AT ALL, EVER. But I believe there is something here to be considered. This may not be a numbers matching car, it may not be an LS-6 car, it may not be an SS car. Heck, it may be a plaino 307 Malibu that's been converted. I strongly agree that if it is a legit, documented, numbers matching car, then the price should reflect that. But if it is a counterfit car (some or all of it) AND IT IS TASTEFULLY AND CORRECTLY DONE WITH THE RIGHT PARTS, then it certainly is worth a fair price. Have people become so obcessed and blinded with the numbers, codes, accessories, etc. that they CANNOT see the value of the vehicle before them? If this car has a straight, rust free body, and is tight and solid with a dependable drivetrain and a good working convertible top, I feel it is worth buying if that is what a person is looking for.
Absolutely, a person should negotiate for the very best price that they can get so that these cars don't become rediculous in value. As I said before, I gave (I thought) too much for the 70 conv for my wife-------and it was a MATCHING NUMBER car!!! Right, a 2bl 307 car!!!! I got that 307 out of there and got rid of it and the Saginaw 4sp so quick it would make your head spin. Now it has a 406, Muncie, 12bolt posi and CI Hood. It looks one HECK of a lot better, performs a lot better and I'm convinced its value is better.
So if the car is a nice car, IT'S THE CAR THAT YOU REALLY WANT, and it can be had for an acceptable price, BUY IT!! To heck with the numbers

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Tom Parsons

mr 4 speed
Aug 13th, 00, 7:28 PM
I agree Tom,well said.

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1970 Chevelle SS396/L78/M21/4.10
1972 Olds 442 convertible(455,W25,M40)
1982 Oldsmobile Cutlass 350 Olds,TH350(daily driver)
"Be aware of the possible ramifications of the potential outcome"

Narti
Aug 13th, 00, 7:48 PM
Dittos to DZAUTO!
Who cares about numbers matching, chalk marks on firewalls and all that other bullbleep, if she looks pretty and goes like hell, BUY IT!! http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

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Nick P.
Team Chevelle Gold #36
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/nicpal/home.htm www.chevelles.com/showroom/Nick's1970ChevelleSS396.jpg (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/Nick's1970ChevelleSS396.jpg)

69396ss
Aug 13th, 00, 11:40 PM
I love that! " all numbers are assumed correct for the era of the car"

and "owner has researched the history of the car the best he could but understands it would be nessesary to pull the engine transmission and rear end to fully verify orignal equipment"

I'll bet anything the car was sold and bought as an original SS LS6 with a price tag to match.

Theres nothing wrong with a nice clone and I agree whole heartedly with DZ's post, But I really hate to see an innocent novice paying a top dollar price for a misrepresented counterfit.

I was talking to a really nice older guy at a car show who just paid 18K for an "original" 69 396/375HP SS. I looked over his car and noticed a LE engine suffix and clearly non matching vin. I beleive the block was a 427/335HP passenger.

He was smiling ear to ear showing me his new Chevelle. I didn't have the heart to tell him what he had.

I know its buyer beware and one should definately be responsible to do there own research before buying collectible muscle.

I just hate to see a novice fellow enthusiast get "beefed"

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Check out my 69 SS 396 (http://community.webtv.net/johnlord/1969ChevelleSS396)

Happy motoring!

[This message has been edited by 69396ss (edited 08-13-2000).]

halldor
Aug 14th, 00, 3:48 AM
For curiousity sake,i looked at the list,and found a LS-6 for 71 listed as CPR,look :
1971 CPR Chevelle 454 425 TH LS-6 .
TH? http://www.chevelles.com/forum/eek.gif
HR

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Halldor Ragnarsson Reykjavik
Malibu 71
There are no problems,only solutions
Member#729

DZAUTO
Aug 14th, 00, 8:58 PM
I agree, I also do not want to see anyone get ripped as a result of a car that has been misrepsented, ESPECIALLY A CAR THAT HAS INTENTIONALLY BEEN MISREPRESENTED (some are misrepresented because the person just doesn't know).
You know a car could have a legitimate LS-6, L-88, ZL-1, etc, in it and still not be correct. If you found a 4bolt block, rect port heads (especially with casting numbers of the same vintage), LS-6 etc cam, intake, pistons, carb and bolted it all together PER CHEV SPECS, then it WOULD be a LS-6, L-88, etc. Right? Then you could stick that engine that was built to Chev specs into a body that originally came with a 307 and presto, you have an LS-6 car. Right? Now, by no means am I trying to say it is a FACTORY ORIGINAL car, just a car with an LS-6 engine. My whole point here is that the car may NOT be a FACTORY BUILT, MATCHING car, but if it has all the parts in/on it that a factory car would have had, COULD you call it an LS-6 or whatever car--------and not be misrepresenting it?
Let's go another direction. If you had a 67-68 SS396 and the ORIGINAL, FACTORY INSTALLED, MATCHING NUMBER block sonic tested OK, and you bored it out to 4.25in, then bolted on a pair of correct dated alum heads, intake, carb, etc, again, all to Chev L-88 specs, would it be a true 67 or 68 SS L-88? Why not? It has the block that was stuck in it at the assembly plant, it has heads, intake, water pump, etc that are all dated within 2-4wks before assembly and it NOW is 427 cubic inches and kills elephants. AND, AND, AND, the numbers LEGITIMATELY match.
I DO NOT advocate trying sell a counterfeit car as one that was a true, documented, factory built car, BUT wouldn't it still be accurately described if these parts were on it?

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Tom Parsons

69396ss
Aug 15th, 00, 3:30 AM
That very well could be the case with this car. And I agree a correct cloned LS6 Conv. would have value. (I found it desirable) I guess it all boils down to the car and price. Both of which I'd love to see.

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Check out my 69 SS 396 (http://community.webtv.net/johnlord/1969ChevelleSS396)

Happy motoring!

ss3964spd
Aug 15th, 00, 7:22 AM
Oops - please see below!

[This message has been edited by ss3964spd (edited 08-15-2000).]

ss3964spd
Aug 15th, 00, 7:39 AM
Like Tom, I certainly don't wish to offend anyone on here; this is just one man's point of view.

An interesting tack you take with the numbers, Tom. But isn't there more to the matching game than simply a correctly VIN'd, dated, and casting numbered block?

If you have a car that came with a 396/375 engine block, that block will have been mated with certain head casting numbers, intake/exhaust manifold numbers, distributor and carb numbers, etc, and all (well most - some parts actually did not have date codes) with date codes that preceed the final build date of the car. Now, if you strip that same engine down to the short block, then top that numbers matching short block with any casting that was not intended to be on a 396/375 - even if the date codes are in the ball park, then the numbers, technically, no longer match and you cannot legitimately label the car "numbers matching".

Someone might be tempted to take the numbers matching thing to the extreme and suggest that, for instance, if the cam in your LS6 is shot and you replace it with a different Comp Cams grind then it's no longer NM. In the strictest interpretation this may be true but no judge is going to whip out his Snap-On's, extract your cam, and mic it right there in the field. They look for date codes, casting numbers, Vin's - the easily verifiable stuff.

All that said, who the hell cares? As it turns out, and as you point out, quite a few people do. By nature, nobody want's to be taken. If I were dealing with the kind of money that a correct LS6 brings I'd be considerably irritated, mostly at myself, if I allowed someone to sell me a clone.

Almost any car will have value to someone. Just make certain you know what you're getting. If you like the car are comfortable with the fact that it's not NM then, fer cryin out loud, buy it and enjoy the hell out of it! My .02...... Dan

DZAUTO
Aug 15th, 00, 8:03 PM
You are totally correct. And I follow you.

If it is NOT matching numbers, don't pay a matching numbers price. If it is a NICE car, pay a nice car price. Amen.

If you want and like it, buy it. JUST NEGOTIATE THE BEST DEAL.

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Tom Parsons

[This message has been edited by DZAUTO (edited 08-15-2000).]

von
Aug 16th, 00, 5:04 AM
If this is a true, documented, REAL numbers matching '71 LS-6, you've found the holy grail. The only one known in the Chevelle enthusiasts world to exist so far. This car would command an ungodly price, probably in the 6 figures area. The chances of this car being that are very very slim but maybe worth checking out carefully. So this car is probably another partial or complete clone that is worth what most other non numbers matching '71 SS454 convertibles in the same condition are worth.

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von '69 300 Dlx SS TC #15 ACES #1575

rat4spd
Aug 18th, 00, 5:16 PM
I thought that one of the few 70 LS-6 Convertibles was documented with AC. It was a triple black with no miles, valued at about $150,000 or so. One of the mags had an article on it a few years ago.

Sid Coleman
Aug 19th, 00, 8:50 AM
What was the tach supposed to indicate on an LS6? Appears in the photo this is a 5500 rpm redline tach.
Gotta agree-I'd looks like a nice car, good "clone", would pay good clone price for it, not the 6 digit #'s matching price.

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71 Ragtop, under construction and over budget!
MCC #347, TC (Gold) #174
N3JHV@bellatlantic.net