Hi guys,
For those of you that did not see the initial thread on this subject, here is some interesting information on piston rings that I got at a seminar given by the Hastings Company on Wednesday.

Hi guys,
Here is the promised info from the Hastings ring seminar. Sort of condensed but pretty accurate.

1: Rings DO rotate ! The are designed to do so in order to keep from wearing in one place on the cylinder wall, and to keep from sticking in the grooves. All three rings rotate at about the same speed, so it is still important to space the gaps when installing them. The tech person at the seminar could not answer the question as to how fast they rotate, but I got the impression that it is very slowly. There were a lot of guys asking questions and I failed to find out exactly what in the ring design makes it rotate.

2: Cylinder wall finish is very important. Basically with todays rings you need a VERY VERY smooth cylinder. A "plateau" finish is preferred. This requires a special type honing "stone" or "brush" type hone as a final finish. (we use the brush hones at my shop) It leaves almost a mirror finish. The rings are pre - lapped at the factory and really should not need any break in.

3: End gap is important but it is better to have too much rather than not enough. They told us that in Dyno tests, there was no measurable difference in power or blowby up to .040" end gap. The guy basically said it is not as important as most people make it out to be, and they have seen plenty of damaged motors from not enough gap, but none damaged from too much.

4: Cleaning the bores prior to assembly: The only way to properly clean a bore is with a stiff brush and hot soap and water ! Solvents such as varsol etc will not get the crud left over from honing out of the metal pores. He also suggested wiping down with white paper towels until the towels came out clean.

5: Lubrication - I was very surprised to hear him tell us that they recommend a mix of motor oil and STP or similar assembly lube on the rings for assembly. Most of us seem to steer away from a real "slippery" lube on rings for fear of them not wearing in properly, but if it is true that they are basically broken in at the factory, then more lube should be better as far as initial wear.

6. "Scotchbrite" pads. Basically, don't use them ! Keep them away from any engine part etc etc. He showed us some highly magnified pictures of rings that had been sent back to them for problems, and you could actually see small pieces of the "scothbrite" material stuck to the rings from someone cleaning the pistons with the stuff. He told us that it is some of the most abrasive stuff known to man.

7. The rest of the stuff he showed us was dealing with new materials for rings in the near future. Mostly steel instead of cast iron, due to it's strength. We also saw a VERY interesting tape on the manufacturing process. You would be amazed at how rings are made ! If anyone is anywhere near the Hastings facility in Michigan, I would recommend you do a tour.

If there are any unanswered questions, e-mail me and I have a contact I can call and try to get an answer.



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Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md

Thanks for passing on the info from Hastings. Just over a month ago I had posted a question on what I should do with what seemed to me like too much end gap on my freshly bored.030" over 396. As I said then my gaps range from .019"-.024" top and from .024"-.026 second ring. This new information doesn't make what I have right, but it does ease my pain somewhat.
I did some measuring and found piston to wall clearance from .0026"-.0041" on my Federal Mogul forged plugs. Does this sound reasonable?
It may help to know this is your basic sunny day driver (no juice) and piston part# L2240NF-30. I can't seem to find the ph.# of F.M. but last time I contacted them I was told I should have clearances closer to .0015". That seemed pretty tight to me for a forged piston but what do I know, I usually work with air cooled engines.
Where do I go from here?

Bill: Sooooooooo... how ARE rings made?? http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

fill us in now you got us interested


mike

Petrat; I believe the FM pistons are the same as TRW of old. These were forged with a special alloy that allows a tighter cylinder wall fit. Don't know about the big block, but 003 in a small block is about perfect. Long service life with no knocking on start up, and enough clearance for all around performance. I note that the GM hipo engines used a larger clearance at 005 to 006 but these engines didn't seem to run long and detonation was a real problem at high compression. Can't compare these to the Wiseco pistons in small engines that are real sloppy on top. tom

Mike,
I don't know if I can describe the manufacturing process in a way that would make it as interestinf as it was looking at the video. The rings start out as big cast iron cylinders. They are then sliced into individual rings, ground to size, have a groove cut in them for the moly filled top rings, then the moly is "sprayed" on, the whole mess is machined again and then polished. It is wild watching all this done by automated equipment. The oil ring "spacer", the back part that supports the actual oil rails, is formed from a piece of stainless flat wire that is run between two "gears" I am going to have to see if I can figure out a way to get the video on the web, but it was about 7 minutes long.
Bill

Has anyone looked at the gapless rings in the new Chevy High Performance? Total Seal's gapless rings created up to 60 more HP in a 548BB. Of course this built huge amounts of power because it was already making almost 640HP. Interesting though...

-Joe Y.

Yes! I am looking at that ad right now, and as always, I am skeptical. I was getting ready to e-mail BillK, but maybe He'll see this and reply. I am curious if they are really "all that". What's the trick to installing them, if there's no gap???

60 horse power switching to Total Seal rings? Not today, tomorrow or ever!

The end gap does not make that much difference, only if you don't have enough gap! Hastings worked with several Nascar teams on end gap, there was no decrease or increase in horse power when end gap was made much wider than normal.

I used the Total Seal rings, what I can tell you is they are a pain in the ass to install.

They are two other things, a very clever marketing tool, and made by guess who?