If you're trying to start a freshly rebuilt small block, how many failed starting attempts can you make before you assume the cam and lifters are wrecked?

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Tom H.
Member #259
Indianapolis,IN www.iquest.net/~bharold/chevelle/ (http://www.iquest.net/~bharold/chevelle/)

Oooh No
Tell me it's not true, you are still having problems with that motor??

I doubt that you will destroy the cam from the slow turning of the motor trying to fire it up. But you may have wiped away most of the prelube by now????
Perhaps some of the other guys can add to this

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Frank W
Melrose MA
Gen X Member#22 (MA)
73 Malibu Coupe
hometown.aol.com/folingo/folingo.html (http://hometown.aol.com/folingo/folingo.html)
Mighty 305 Power

What you may want to do is prime the motor. Go buy a iol primer or make one from a distributor(remember to take off the cam gear) remove your dist, place the primer on the oil pump shaft use a 1/2 in drill or a air drill and compressor and take the valve covers off and prime the motor till you see oil coming out of the pushrods. This will fully prime the motor and get oil on all the bearings and passages.

Jeez Tom, I feel your pain! I would'nt freak out too much yet. I have had several motors that did'nt start right off and after figuring out the problem (almost always electrical, timing etc.) the engines ran fine. I really hope you get it going this time. Keep us informed. Bob

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Bob (Creedmoor,N.C.)
65 Vette B&M Blown, Richmond 5-speed
68 Malibu B&M Blown, Turbo 350 10" converter

I haven't destroyed it yet...I don't think. I'm just naturally pessimistic. The deal is that the carb was giving me trouble and I've tried to start it a few times after messing with it. No luck on any attempts. I do have a primer and have primed it on several occasions pretty thoroughly, but was not sure this was getting oil to the lobes. As 73Malibu pointed out, I was afraid I'd wiped away all the prelube.
For the record, I haven't sat there in frustration and ground away at the starter.
I'm just wondering about all this as I sit and wait for the carb kit to arrive. I should be ready for another go-round by tonight or Thursday night. You can all assume it's still not running until you see a post from me stating otherwise.

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Tom H.
Member #259
Indianapolis,IN www.iquest.net/~bharold/chevelle/ (http://www.iquest.net/~bharold/chevelle/)

I had the same problem you did, fresh engine and not a smooth beginning, but everything worked out ok (i think). One thing I did that helped to make sure the whole engine was lubed was start priming at top dead center for 3 minutes, then turn the crank a 1/4 turn and prime for another 3 minutes, then repeated this till I hit TDC again.

I had a lobe go flat once. On my last rebuild I put the wrong oil filter. It was damn late. I was wondering what that noise was when I was prelubing it with the drill. Needless to say It fired right up. I noticed the leak pronto. Had to turn it off. Fixed the mess up and fired it back up. No problems.

You have to turn the engine over while priming it or you will not get all the lifter filled with oil. The best way to this is by hand. If you have a primer and have turned it over after priming you have most likly gotten the oil pump primed and it is picking up and lubing every time you turn it over. If it is possible you should rebuild and tune your carb on a buddies car if you are worried about the cam, this way you should fire right up and be able to keep the RMP's up long enough to break in the cam. The cam gets it lube from oil dripping over it from the valley and from splash from the crank, that is why you need the RPM"S when breaking it in.

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Gold Member #164
sites.netscape.net/1969ss/homepage (http://sites.netscape.net/1969ss/homepage)
San Diego CA.

If you've been dumping fuel into that motor because of a bad carb, make sure you change the oil and filter before you go any further.

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Nick P.
Team Chevelle Gold #36

Turning the motor over while priming is a good idea and I'll make sure to do that next time I try to start it.
Not possible to tune the carb on a buddy's car. I don't know anyone else who has a hot rod. This seems like the really wrong way to go about doing a carb rebuild/motor fireup. I wish I had another alternative. I don't get it 'cause the carb worked the first time we started the motor...
Change the oil, change the filter. And it doesn't have one mile on it yet. And I have to go back to the Chevy dealership and get another bottle of that EOS. Now I remember why I quit playing with cars back in '93.

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Tom H.
Member #259
Indianapolis,IN www.iquest.net/~bharold/chevelle/ (http://www.iquest.net/~bharold/chevelle/)

I can't even count how many times people I know have tried to update or rebuild too many pieces of an engine at the same time. The last thing I'd want to worry about when trying to fire up a new motor is a carb that you THINK needs a rebuild. Unless that carb is really screwed up, the engine should at least fire. Double check everything electrical and re-check the ignition timing, it's way to easy to get caught up in the excitement and have the timing be a little off. I just re-read all the messages in thread, and you refer to the engine having fired before,and the carb working fine previously. Are you getting fuel to the carb? Through the carb? What kind of carb is it?

It's a Holley, 600 cfm. It did fire when I tried to start it. I checked the ignition timing several times. I even reversed the rotor once just to make sure I wasn't backwards.
I had a friend crank the motor while I looked over the engine. When the car started I could see large droplets of fuel falling down into the primary bores from off of the...well, I don't know what you call those things that stick out in the middle of the bores.

I've pulled the carb apart already and did find one very interesting detail: the secondary float was turned all the way down so it was touching the bottom of the float bowl.

The guy told me it had been rebuilt and from what I see inside I believe it. Clean as a whistle, no buildup of crud anywhere. The gaskets almost fell off, didn't tear at all.

Now I think this thread has taken on a new life...

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Tom H.
Member #259
Indianapolis,IN www.iquest.net/~bharold/chevelle/ (http://www.iquest.net/~bharold/chevelle/)

Tom, when you see large droplets of gas coming off of the boosters (I think?) it usually means a float out of adjustment. This is easily set by the screw and locknut on top of the carb. The screw is acutally the locking device; the nut adjusts the float level. When the view plug on the side of the carb is removed, gas should barely seep out of the opening when the engine is running. Trash caught in the float needle/seat will also cause this problem.

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Bob (Creedmoor,N.C.)
65 Vette B&M Blown, Richmond 5-speed
68 Malibu B&M Blown, Turbo 350 10" converter

Tom, when I swapped my 396 for my 427 a few weeks back I had a real problem with the motor. Turned out to be the holley. Why it never glitched on the 396, but did on the 427, after a few minutes of running BTW I'll never know. I literally took it off, set it up on a porch railing and then bolted it back on 4 hrs later. Goofiest thing I ever saw, which is why I didn't think it was the carb. Put new needles and seats in and roughed the float setting so the floats were a litle less than parallel to to the top of the bowl when held upside down. Also replaced the power valve which seemed to leak a bit when I sucked it. Anyway, wierd things can happen to Holleys as they come off and onto a motor I guess. I had no problems with the carb at all with the 396 right up to the motor swap.

I pulled out the needle and seat and blew it out with high pressure air, same problem. The fuel was not coming out of the annular discharge booster, but rather dripping profusely from the two...dammit, I don't know what they're called!---those two circular things that stick out on little posts into the middle of the primary venturis.
Anyway, I tried adjusting the float and that didn't help either. I even pulled the float bowl off and adjusted it by looking at the float as it hung upside down. Same problem. I had some backfires while trying to start it early on, and the general consensus here was that I'd blown the power valve, so I pulled the carb and bought a rebuild kit.

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Tom H.
Member #259
Indianapolis,IN www.iquest.net/~bharold/chevelle/ (http://www.iquest.net/~bharold/chevelle/)

Hey TH, I believe those are called Dog leg or conventional boosters, the annular boosters are the ones on race carbs, and oh the to little neddle point thingys sticking out from between the ventri are the accelerator pump squirters. If the power valve is blown the gas usally comes out near the throttle plates.

TH: Those round things in the barrels are called venturii (im pretty sure thats plural for venturi) and actually even the barrels are called venturii.

How are you setting the floats on that Holley? The carb would have to be really fudged for it not to fire at all.

Let us know some more specifics and well give you help on how to fix the carb

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Mike Reeh
Gold #34
San Diego, CA

Okay, thanks. Got some terms straight.

So, it's liquid fuel dripping off the venturii (those which project into the center of the port or hole itself).

The car did start, don't get me wrong, but it ran VERY poorly. Floored it would only gain 500RPM max. If I let off the gas it died. I have pulled it off and torn it apart and it looks, well...actually it looks great inside! Go figure. The only odd thing is the secondary float was adjusted till it hit the floor of the float bowl.

Looks like I have a generous hand from a Team Chevelle member coming over this weekend to let me use his working Holley to get the motor broken in. Course, that still leaves this one to contend with after the break-in period...

Update:

A guy who works at a shop down the street came to my aid by loaning me his Edelbrock. He came over after work with it tonight, changed all the jets and whatnot for my application. He then hung around and helped me get it timed right and...get it running!

Those familiar with this saga know the last motor firing ended in cam failure. I am not crazily happy at this point. I will save that for tomorrow when I run the engine again, pull the valve covers off, and see that all the rockers are rocking madly away like they're supposed to. Call me pessismistic, but I can't stand another letdown like last time.

Still, if it's okay...this is gonna be SOOOO cool!

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Tom H.
Member #259
Indianapolis,IN www.iquest.net/~bharold/chevelle/ (http://www.iquest.net/~bharold/chevelle/)