Gray Davis and co tripled the California car tax today, with no vote required by the state senate/assembly. I encourage all you Californians to fill out the recall initiative at http://www.recallgraydavis.com so we don't have to put up with paying for his mistakes. Your car fees will basically return to what they were in the Pete Wilson era before he reduced the rates.

Example: The fee on a new Chevrolet Impala purchased for $24,920, for example, will rise from what would have been $162 to $498 in the first year of ownership.

I really can't believe he's pushing this stuff on us while still expanding spending at the state level.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-vehicles21jun21,1,2342071.story

Yeah I am pretty much burned out on Davis myself..I have an alternate plan, as well as tripling our registration fee's lets cut their salarys by 2/3's at the same time....you know so that they can share in the pain of cleaning up the mess they created in the first place.

isn't there gonna be a vote to get that fruitcake out of office?

Seven vehicles here. Most of them just sit while I pay the tags and insurance. I guess time for some non-ops.
If anyone thought "sticker stealing" was bad before, just watch. I run a razor blade through mine so they won't come off in one piece.

"isn't there gonna be a vote to get that fruitcake out of office?"

Yes, goto the website provided and download the form and mail it in. Already well over halfway to getting him recalled. Jay Leno would make a great govnah for car enthusiasts, but I think I'll have to settle for Arnold if he runs

**** Davis. so this just doesnt apply to new cars, it applys to old ones too right? i just got my registration renewal in the mail and it was just like $20. so i the fee going to go up now?

The way i understand it, the Vehicle License Fee (VLF) is going to be restored to its pre 1998 level which is 2% of purchase price. This is supposed to start Oct. 1,2003. Right now its been at .67%. But our old Chevelles aren't going to be hit too hard. I just registered a 68 Chevelle for the first time and was sweating the VLF. After all was said and done the VLF was $6 . So if it triples, I'm only out $18. For a new car its another story. This fee increase was supposed to be up for a vote in the assembly, but that moron Davis used some legal precedent drug up by his lawyers to let the state controller implement it w/o a vote or discussion in the assembly. Somehow this way of doing things was supposed to keep Davis out of the loop - allowing him to wash his hands of the increase. Yeah right !!!

It was only a week or two ago that he said he'd veto it if it passed. This guy is beyond amazing! I signed the petition to recall him months ago.

Jody

For the rest of us who don't live in California, is this VLF in addition to the registration fee? In NJ, the registration is based on the class and weight of the vehicle. This, of course, gets paid every year when the registration is renewed (except on Historic plated vehicles).

Originally posted by MalibuJerry350:
For the rest of us who don't live in California, is this VLF in addition to the registration fee? In NJ, the registration is based on the class and weight of the vehicle. This, of course, gets paid every year when the registration is renewed (except on Historic plated vehicles). Usual break-down is this. I paid one yesterday.
Registration fee $30.00
Vehicle License Fee (VLF) $39.00
Weight Fee $0.00
Special Plate Fee $0.00 (= vanity plate)
County/District Fee $8.00
Owner Responsibility Fee $0.00
VLF Offset (-)$26.00 *Which is going away when they bring things back to the older level.*
Total $51.00

I'm trying to get a movement going in my area through the local radio station. If we all turn in our presonalised license plates which we pay extra for every year not only would the state loose money on that fee but would have to replace your turned in plates with new ones. I don't believe they now charge much for the generic plates. I have three sets myself and aren't willing to pay a dime more. Don't need them. Maybe we can send a message to the capitol.
There are millions of the plates in California.
Also maybe Dean can tag this post to the top for awhile to gain support. Other states in similiar economic trouble are looking at Calif as the leader.
Mark

I sticky noted the thread

I think the're going to tax us until we don't have anything left to spend on ourselves

Man you guys in CA are really getting hit hard

I went to DMV last week and had my Suburban tag expiration month change from June to April so I could renew it at the same time I do the other 12 vehicles
(The had listed my name on the title FNF instead of LNF and "H" expires in June)
cost me $93.00 for 10 months :(

Wow!! The registration on the Chevelle, for instance, is 44.50 a year. If I wanted special plates (vanity, for instance), they are additional. Counties, towns, etc, have nothing to do with vehicle registration cost or stickers. The rate structure is consistant through out the state. This also allows you to have the vehicle inspected at renewal time at any state run inspection facility at no charge (private inspection facilities charge a fee for the safety/emission insection).

I hate to look like a doomsayer but.... it doesn't matter who's running the show ... we get screwed on a regular baisis by them all :eek: untill WE get some kind of laws that make the powers that be live within a bugget .. insteed of SPEND SPEND & we'll raise tax's !!Miss management on they're part is Killing Us one tax at a time ..& don't think that if your not in California your ahead in the game ... your goverment officals are watching ours.. counting the ways to screw you !! :( JMHO

Yea, and unforunately its hard to take away any of the special social programs they add more of each year, which balloon the budget immensely for little gain to citizens. And the last Proposition meant to do something about that(prop 187) was shut down in the state courts :(

Ahhh stop complaining. They have property taxes on our cars and trucks here in SC. They also figure they can make more money so the tax rate on trucks is higher than cars.(redneck thing) I spent $20.00 last year on taxes for my Chevelle, $300 for my '96 Sebring vert. and I don't remember the rediculas amount they got for my 00 Interpid. Then you pay $25.00 every other year for plates. They put this stupidity up for vote 2 years ago and we voted to abolish it and gave them 10 years to come up with another plan to replace it. :eek:

Originally posted by MalibuJerry350:
Wow!! The registration on the Chevelle, for instance, is 44.50 a year. If I wanted special plates (vanity, for instance), they are additional. Counties, towns, etc, have nothing to do with vehicle registration cost or stickers. The rate structure is consistant through out the state. This also allows you to have the vehicle inspected at renewal time at any state run inspection facility at no charge (private inspection facilities charge a fee for the safety/emission insection). The 64 was $40.00 last February and guessing the 72 was $41 in April. Both had a small percentage reduced against the VLF. Neither get inspected for anything
VLF is a state personal property tax. It's always been deductable come tax time. The only way this mathematic genius will get the full amount is if nobody itemizes.
Car guys out here were willing to pay to have the original "black plates" put on post 64 cars. This would have been a vanity fee which the state would have kept 100% of the fees. They didn't like that idea.

David/Wheels68 what many people do not realize or remember is that the .67% rate WAS the historical rate - THEN it went to 2%, then was reduced back to .67% in '98.

This tax is criminal in their intent - pay no attention to Davis and clan's claims to be "for the people". Pure and simple it hits the less well off individual and families worst - it hits those who cannot itemize hardest.

With the rate increase, those of us with collections of old cars will just non-op most of them, or get a dealer plate to which to attatch to the car being driven at the moment (you can do this if you have enough cars).

When the rates went down I just left some of the seldom used cars registered because it was affordable enough - but a new strategy is in the works.

Thomas

Originally posted by John_Muha:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MalibuJerry350:
Wow!! The registration on the Chevelle, for instance, is 44.50 a year. If I wanted special plates (vanity, for instance), they are additional. Counties, towns, etc, have nothing to do with vehicle registration cost or stickers. The rate structure is consistant through out the state. This also allows you to have the vehicle inspected at renewal time at any state run inspection facility at no charge (private inspection facilities charge a fee for the safety/emission insection). The 64 was $40.00 last February and guessing the 72 was $41 in April. Both had a small percentage reduced against the VLF. Neither get inspected for anything
VLF is a state personal property tax. It's always been deductable come tax time. The only way this mathematic genius will get the full amount is if nobody itemizes.
Car guys out here were willing to pay to have the original "black plates" put on post 64 cars. This would have been a vanity fee which the state would have kept 100% of the fees. They didn't like that idea. </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks for explaining it, John. In NJ, the plates stay with the owner and can be transfered to another vehicle (as long as it has the same owner). Plates do not go with the car. The only tax on the car is NJ 6% sales tax based on the amount of the transaction when the car is sold, paid by the buyer at the time of initial registration. The Chevelle still gets inspected because it is not registered as an Historic vehicle. My 57 Chevy has Historic plates, so the registration fee was a one time deal AND there is no inspection. I got the Historic plates back in '82.

Last I heard we did get the 1 million signatures required but are needing as many as possible. Odds are we will have a special election.

Several months ago The Democrats tried to push this through the state legislator but could not get the 2/3 vote required. So they said &*^% you to representation "Taxation without representation"! Sound familiar? This is the second time the Democrats who control this state completely imposed an illegal auto tax on us. The first tax was overturned by the courts and this one is headed in the same direction! It just takes a few years.

The Democrats of California are really making it hard on working folks that can't afford these high registration costs! Like me!

Anyone on this site that likes cars, likes boats, likes guns, likes fishing, likes hunting, likes off road vehicles, likes to keep the money they earn and votes Democrat. Please go to the nearest shrink and have yourself committed graemlins/clonk.gif


http://news.mysanantonio.com/story.cfm?xla=saen&xlb=180&xlc=1018384

http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2003/06/23/daily55.html


http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-hanson29jun29.story


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/col/story/96543p-87419c.html

http://www.tcpalm.com/tcp/the_news_local_news/article/0%2C1651%2CTCP_1028_2074345%2C00.html

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/6187665.htm

The state is in ALOT of trouble right now, and it wont be getting better any time soon. My registration (just paid it) on the velle was $53. My concerns mostly lie in education at this point, right now I'm an Instructional Aide, and have been watching the districts make cuts that education CAN'T afford to make. It's going to get REALLY BAD for a while. No matter who we get to step in, they're going to have a tough time thanks to the mess already in existence. At election time democrats told me Simon was a crook, I told them Davis already screwed us, and now knows the ropes of doing so. They chose to ignore the past and me. Most of them have already signed the petition.

My .02,
Brandon

I think it would be a sin to talk about California's budget crisis or poor schools, poor hospitals, bad roads, no fish, pollution, black outs, without mentioning the unspeakable "I" word................"Illegal immigration".


Please take the time to read these two short links on California and immigration. Basically we could fix our budget problem tomorrow if we start deporting these blood suckers today.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-0306300176jun30.story

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=8643

Originally posted by hilljack:
I think it would be a sin to talk about California's budget crisis or poor schools, poor hospitals, bad roads, no fish, pollution, black outs, without mentioning the unspeakable "I" word................"Illegal immigration".


Please take the time to read these two short links on California and immigration. Basically we could fix our budget problem tomorrow if we start deporting these blood suckers today.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-0306300176jun30.story

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=8643 Efn A right hilljack graemlins/hurray.gif

Like it or not you cannot dispute fact. Illegal immigration is a huge drain...HUGE and everybody looks the other way "They just want a better life.....they deserve the opportunity to stay...." Right, THE LEGAL ONES.

4 in 10 graduate (legal or illegal) from high school, even less for a bachelor degree.

They work in construction, the restaurant industry, hotels industry, and automotive industry (there gos the farm worker theory) and contribute nill to taxes.

I think the average illegal immigrant sucks up $50,000 per person throughout there life.....each one and that comes from you and me....your talking BILLIONS of dollars.

Not to mention the whole 30+ some odd percentile that are locked away in jail and housed, cared for and fed with your tax dollars.

Course, that is to say nothing of Gray "line my pockets and I will do whatever you want" Davis....I spit on that man

The VLF is low on older cars ('60, 70s models), so the triple increase shouldn't increase the total registration by much. This is in my experience, maybe some of you have large VLF amounts on these cars. Cars in the 1990's-Present will get hit hard :( . With my '94 Impala and '97 S-10 I'll be expecting to pay at least $300+ more next year. What a crock. Why should the tax payers being penalized for the money mismanagement in the state gov't :mad: . I swear, the worst money managers in the U.S. are managing our tax dollars at the Federal, State, Local, etc levels. Pretty sad.

And the topic of Mr. Davis is a whole other can of worms. I remember a few years ago Davis was throwing a lot of money into education. I'd venture to say most teachers, etc. loved him due to the increased job positions and higher salaries. Now Davis is turning his back on education and using the chopping block in a big way. Teachers hate him, understandably so. And that's just one example of how the current CA gov't hosed a lot of people lately.

Maybe I'll No-op my S-10 and Impala so Davis won't have the satisfaction of screwing my out of another $300+. Maybe we should send Davis a bill for the increase and he can bail US out instead of US bailing HIM out of this money shortage tongue.gif

EDIT: Illegal Immigration :rolleyes: . That could set a new thread length record :D

Well I just got my reg for my truck (2002 2500HD) and it will only cost $406 this year and with the the VLF offset back it looks like it will cost me $860 a year to register! We need to recall Davis and remove the multiple layers of government that we have. I understand paying taxes (I pay my fair share, married with no kids and get big bonuses with a nice pay) but increasing my taxes while there is so much BS spending. What happen to the tabbaco tax ($0.50 a pack), the increased sales taxes, they just created more government positions to burn throught the cash. If I could make what I make here, and I could find a spot with sweet weather like here I would leave this state.

Dave

Originally posted by dave_silva:
If I could make what I make here, and I could find a spot with sweet weather like here I would leave this state.

Dave Add the fact that all my family is either here or Hawaii and that would about sum it up for me as well

There are sooooo many things I just typed and deleted cause they just don't fit the thread....

At least in CA you guys only have to get smog tested every other year. Here it is inspection and smog every year, and ugly stickers in the window to prove you did it. Oh, and another 8 bucks to the state for each one. Where does the money go? it ain't into fixing potholes.

Like John said, razor your stickers, and do what you can to keep em from cutting the plate off. Here it got so bad, they make people in certain areas have a reg sticker in the back window. We call em (among other things) "Yellow Taggers" :D

K

Illegal Immigration? Knew the Canadians were behind all the problems. Blame Canada.

Save the state, Plant a Liberal.

Originally posted by John_Muha:
Illegal Immigration? Knew the Canadians were behind all the problems. Blame Canada. Cann't trust em. They're toooooo quiet.... Just sitting up there waiting. For what? beats me, but there they are..... :D

K

Originally posted by Chevello:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John_Muha:
Illegal Immigration? Knew the Canadians were behind all the problems. Blame Canada. Cann't trust em. They're toooooo quiet.... Just sitting up there waiting. For what? beats me, but there they are..... :D

K </font>[/QUOTE]South Park has taught me everything I need to know.....they're sneaky. Atleast we know our beer is safe since none of them would want it. I think they're after our healthcare or perhaps a navy ship or two. :D

*John thinking about knocking at Keith's family's house and yelling "Trick or Drink". I get holidays mixed up*

Second week of august be ready for that knock on YOUR door John smile.gif

K

I had heard (and under the impression) that when they REDUCED the VLF a few years ago, there was an "automatic" provision that raised the VLF in the event of budget shortfall...

I was also under the impression that Davis was not responsible for the proposed increase to the VLF. I have heard that he was thinking of opposing it...


First of all, I am a Republican, and have been so since I began voting at 18... I don't always vote the party line, but usually do...

BUT all these idiots with their recall BS are idiots...

So maybe Davis didn't do a great job, and maybe he did blow some money based on poor judgement (of course, letting PG&E and So Cal Edison fade into bankrupcy while their customers went dark without power, would have been much worse), its a balancing act, and more than likely, a republican governor will not make a difference. Maybe it would have if one had been in power then, but doubtful...

I look at all the money the recall proponents are going to cost the state by imposing a special election... they are pretty much just as bad IMO... At least Davis didn't think we'd be in a bad budget situation when he signed the electric contracts and stuff... But those favoring a recall KNOW we are already in a bad financial situation, and they will make it worse...

generally, the legislature usually sends stuff for the Govenor to sign.

Its obvious from the budget stalemate that the legislature can pretty much block anything from going to the governors desk...

I know I will NOT be contributing to the Republican party (my political party of choice) before the next election... I feel its just sour grapes...

"I had heard (and under the impression) that when they REDUCED the VLF a few years ago, there was an "automatic" provision that raised the VLF in the event of budget shortfall..."

There is a provision that allows them to raise the fee if the coffers are literally empty(and they are not, there is enough money[even without a signed budget in california, which means no new spending or collecting until then] to last until mid-august). But it is the controllers job I believe to do that, and it requires no vote by the state senate/assembly.

I've not heard of Davis disagreeing with the tax increase, and since all the state positions are held be Dem's I'm sure that he(controller I believe) got a party "approval" before doing so.

Yes the recall will cost money, a drop in the bucket compared to the budget problems we're facing with the current administration and a chance to rectify the problems in the state.

Tony, please do not forget that when they reduced the VLF a couple of years ago they were returning it to the rate that it had been in the past - its not like triple level deserves much of a podium.

Say what you want about the $30 million recall election - but this Davis buffoon has already squandered several billion dollars. Califonia has been ignored and abused by politicians like minded to Davis for too long. What I can tell you is that a great many people are getting excited with the idea that they CAN throw incompetents out of office. This is a day many career politicians are starting to dread. In the past they could too easily predict short and unfocused attention by the electorate - heaven forbid that the elected/ruling class should ever be responsible for anything that goes wrong!

Thomas

I would move out of California. When they get a governor that cuts the social programs they will need to build lots of prisons to house all the thugs that will steal. People with no skills don't want to work for 7.00/hr so they will be practicing the 5 finger discount instead. That is why I would leave California. There is no hope for California except for high taxes.

California just has too many people looking for a handout. I bet there is a mass exodus of people leaving California but they are being replaced with less educated people just as fast.

I don't think a governor change is going to help but it is worth a try. You still have the same legislature as well. Can you do a recall with them as well?

"You still have the same legislature as well. Can you do a recall with them as well?"

At least we would stand a chance of a governor with veto power over democrat held senate and assembly.

what is the car tax in california? cause here in michigan its 6% and i think thats pretty bad but im not sure how things are for u guys out west.
nathaniel

Originally posted by plain 69:
I bet there is a mass exodus of people leaving California but they are being replaced with less educated people just as fast.

Dude, with our illegal immigration problems the entire current state population could exit in the same week and the amount of people in California would double in in that same month.

And yes, you are right, there is a mass exodus in our state but it is made up of mostly of businesses and corporations......that, in turn, causes the skilled workers to follow. No matter... we will always have the hippies and illegals to keep things running smoothly. :D

Move to Arkansas. One time renewal for Antique cars - $9 forever! Expiration date - never.

Don't even think for a second that this recall is a purely grassroots and democratic effort. You can thank Representative Darrel Issa (Republican from Vista) and his deep pockets for this. If he hadn't spent 2 million dollars out of his own fortune, this recall would not have gotten off the ground. This is just another example of big money and a few bitter well-to-do Republicans having their way with the political process.

Tony from Sacramento (1966_L78) said it right. Changing Governors midstream won't change the State's outlook, and Davis alone is not to blame for this situation. This mess goes back a number of years, and all current and former elected officials are to be held responsible. Pinning the blame on Davis alone is bull, a case of sour grapes, and trying to get a Republican into the Governor's office by circumventing the 2006 election is blatantly underhanded.

I'm neither a Republican nor a Democrat and I'm no fan of Davis. But this recall effort is one giant charade. I can guarantee you that if Bill Simon had won the election last year, the State would still be in this current mess but he wouldn't be facing a recall.

If the recall supporters are so bent on nailing Davis for the State's financial woes, I wonder if they'd be willing to recall Bush? After all, the country is facing a half-trillion dollar deficit which did not exist when he was elect... no wait, selected (makes California's 38 billion seem puny doesn't it?). He's mismanaged finances by giving the bulk of his tax cuts to those who least deserve it. He lied to the American public about Iraq and got us into a war and occupation that will cost billions that we don't have.

So, c'mon all you Davis-haters, where's the recall Bush campaign? Where do I sign?

Davis physically caused most of this trouble by increasing spending in enormous bounds in his first term. Bush, on the other hand, didn't.


And blaming this recall on a rich guy is kind of stupid. It takes money to pay for collectors and advertisements and counters; nothing is going to happen if theres neither of them because noone would know whats going on.

Bush has physically done even worse, he's spending money which the government no longer has because he gave it away to the wealthy. Davis at least had a budget that was operating in the black for some time, whereas the surplus that Bush inherited practically disappeared overnight. I wonder how Bush will pay for the Iraq and empire-building BS that is unfolding? Oh right... the middle class, working people, folks like you and I will pay for it, dearly. He's also turned a blind eye to corporate corruption that has ripped off countless working people. The list goes on...

And as for the recall, you're right. It does take money to pay for collectors and advertisements and counters, Darrel Issa's money. He's the one who contributed the bulk of the change needed for this effort. Without him, this recall would have had no legs. It's kind of stupid not to blame him for the recall.

I'd rather not turn this into a political debate, so I'm not going to get into why "blame" isn't the right word and Bush spending the same money every other recent president has.

It won't matter what governor they have in California they are not going to cut social services because there will be chaos. Bush on the other hand is giving us all tax relief. I can't wait to get my child credit tax check. That will almost buy my aluminum heads and keep someone a job for a month or so at Edelbrock or somewhere. Bush should be rotating those soldiers out there in Iraq quicker than he his. I bet those soldiers in the desert are not Gung Ho as they were. I think some of those soldiers probably enjoy the violence but for the most part they want to come home. It is pretty bad that some are saying they want wounded just to come home.

Bush is a lock in 2004 and hopefully Ralph Nadar runs again to siphon votes off the Democrat party as well. We need at least 5 more years of Republikan rule in the House, Senate and the Presidency to get things way right. Then everyone can look back and say what great times those Roaring 90's were. People have to suffer before they see the light.

"Murder per 100,000 residents in counties won by Gore 13.2, by Bush 2.1 (not a typo) see below!"


The budget can be solved with two words" ILLEGAL ALIENS" we need to push those heathens back to the hell they came from. Vermin like that cost us Billions!

I can't imagine anyone involved with gas guzzler cars associate themselves with the Democrat party. You got a death wish or something because I'll tell ya, they ain't representing YOU! It's just %^&king amazing!!! The party that stands against the right to bare arms, Boos the Boy Scouts on family values, and has filth like Jessie Hi-Jackass as one of there leaders, not to mention the extreme smog legislation that you already forgot about that Red Davis signed into Law. OH YEAH!!! It goes into effect after he leaves office, remember that one???


My God man! It's time to wake up! So maybe your Dad was a Democrat back in the day when they stood for the working man, good morals, a strong defense, and so on. Not the case anymore.

The new Democratic party stands for the new emerging ungodly social peasant class that Ted Kennedy was instrumental in creating with the immigration act of 1965. Do you remember the map from the 2000 election that showed how Bush had geographically won 90% of the US? The red and blue one?? Guess what that means???? The Democrats carried three big cities and that's about it! SF, LA, and NYC and guess who lives there. People on social programs, criminals, immigrants, illegal immigrants, minorities, and homosexuals. This new peasant class of people along with some Democrats that have jobs, will determine the outcome of the election.

To put things in perspective by today's standard JFK would be more of a Republican than GWB is!

For all you Democrats read below.


"A warning from Scots Historian Professor Alexander Tyler, circa 1787,
Re: The Fall of the Athenian Republic.
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only
exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse
(generous gifts) from the public treasury. From that moment on, the
majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from
the public treasury, with the result that a
democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always
followed by a dictatorship."
"The average age of the world's greatest civilization has been two hundred
years. These nations have progressed through this sequence. From bondage to
spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to
liberty; from liberty to abundance, from abundance to complacency; from
complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back into
bondage."
..........................
Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University of Law, St. Paul, MN passed on
that gem & provides the following 2000 election facts for consideration.
Population of counties won by Gore 127 million, won by Bush 143 million
Sq. miles of country won by Gore 580,000, won by Bush 2,427,000
States won by Gore 19, by Bush 29
Murder per 100,000 residents in counties won by Gore 13.2, by Bush 2.1 (not
a typo)
Professor Olson adds, "And may I add that the map of the territory Bush won
was (mostly) the land owned by the people of this great country. Not the
citizens living in cities owned by the government and living off the
government....
....................

Hey Hilljack, I think you must have this forum confused with the Aryan Nation message board. As I understand this is supposed to be about guys of any color etc that have a shared interest in this hobby. I might also suggest that you review your history book and notice that the most aggressive smog laws, unleaded gas, 55 mph, speed limits etc. were put in place during Richard Nixons administration, he was a Republican if my memory serves me correctly.

He may have been in a frenzy when he wrote his article, but it is very true that illegals(I don't care where they came from) cost the state and the country a LOT of money(the state would be much much closer to breaking even if the yearly costs of illegals were gone) in education, health, etc. But the flipside is how much money is saved when we spend for more law enforcement to stop it?

Originally posted by Bryanz1:
Hey Hilljack, I think you must have this forum confused with the Aryan Nation message board. As I understand this is supposed to be about guys of any color etc that have a shared interest in this hobby. I might also suggest that you review your history book and notice that the most aggressive smog laws, unleaded gas, 55 mph, speed limits etc. were put in place during Richard Nixons administration, he was a Republican if my memory serves me correctly.
Keep on crying wolf! You know you really do a disservice to people who may really suffer from racism. This has nothing to do with color and you know it. Same old Democrat race card......works every time huh!!!!!! You call me a racist and suppose to lay down!

This topic is about car taxes and what can be done to solve it.

Your memory does not serve you. Jimmy Carter imposed the 55MPH speed limit.

Here's some good reading for you:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33830

http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/print/OO/pqo1.html

http://www.insightmag.com/news/447821.html

Originally posted by hilljack:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bryanz1:
[qb]Your memory does not serve you. Jimmy Carter imposed the 55MPH speed limit.
Nope, it was Nixon, while I was stationed in New Mexico. Long drive to San Diego at 55mph...

Originally posted by Cecil:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by hilljack:
Originally posted by Bryanz1:
[qb]Your memory does not serve you. Jimmy Carter imposed the 55MPH speed limit.
Nope, it was Nixon, while I was stationed in New Mexico. Long drive to San Diego at 55mph... </font>The confusion may lie in the fact that there was 2 oil embargos. The first occured in 1973 under Nixon with that nationally mandated 55 stuff occuring afterwards by 1974. The second embargo occured under Carter.
Recall trying to get the Chevelle filled up early mornings in 73, and those long lines.

Hilljack, I agree with you that this discussion was originally about auto registration and what we could do to reduce it. However when you speak of the illegal aliens as "vermin" I somehow find it hard to believe you were speaking of Canadians.
Now if I'm wrong correct me..but I'll bet you were speaking about the people from south of the border. I didn't call you a racist, what I said was I think that you have this confused with an Aryan Nation message board, they seem to hold a simular view that anyone who is from another country is responsible for everything from heart disease to tooth decay. Personally I believe that the current financial mess we in this state find ourselves in has more to do with continuing to spend freely long after the windfall taxes that were created by the spectacular profits made during the dot com explosion dried up. Some poor hump who came 1500 miles to work bent over in 100 degree tempuratures in a bean field for $3.00 an hour isn't the reason that our registration fees tripled. If you choose to believe that...then we will have to disagree.. but then thats why Baskin Robbins offers 31 flavors..seems like everyone has a different opinion.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/editorial/6413846.htm

A clip from the article above. The news is finally getting out and illegals cost billions!

"Illegal immigrants do use expensive public services. Federal law requires hospitals to treat anyone who shows up. And a 1982 Supreme Court ruling says that the children of illegal immigrants are entitled to public education. Much of California's current economic crisis can be tied to its enormous low-income population, swelled by poor immigrants. Harvard economist George Borjas found that providing services to immigrants (both legal and illegal) during the mid-1990s cost the average household of native-born Californians $1,200 a year."

Go back and read the links I posted it explains the high cost of illegals and go to www.americanpatrol.com (http://www.americanpatrol.com)

He may be picking beans for small wages under the table but meanwhile his wife is on welfare raising three kids at our expense.

And yes I'm especially talking about people from Canada, Russia, south America or anywhere. Anyone who is trying to destroy my country is worse then Vermin, and I don't have to respect them!

Originally posted by Bryanz1:
Now if I'm wrong correct me..but I'll bet you were speaking about the people from south of the border. I didn't call you a racist, what I said was I think that you have this confused with an Aryan Nation message board, they seem to hold a simular view that anyone who is from another country is responsible for everything from heart disease to tooth decay. Personally I believe that the current financial mess we in this state find ourselves in has more to do with continuing to spend freely long after the windfall taxes that were created by the spectacular profits made during the dot com explosion dried up. Some poor hump who came 1500 miles to work bent over in 100 degree tempuratures in a bean field for $3.00 an hour isn't the reason that our registration fees tripled. If you choose to believe that...then we will have to disagree.. but then thats why Baskin Robbins offers 31 flavors..seems like everyone has a different opinion. When I speak of illegal aliens I will readily admit that I am most concerned with those coming across the border in the south, yes Mexico, but that does not mean they are all Mexican nationals. Hundreds of thousadns that cross through mexico into our nation came from elsewhere in South America.

And I wish everyone would stop with the "THEY ONLY WORK IN THE FIELDS!" crap. That is FLAT OUT is incorrect. Illegals, in fast growing numbers, are working in the restaurant industry, construction, painting...on and on. They DO NOT JUST PICK LETTUCE!!!

I invite you to read a newly released book titled "Mexifornia" which will be available at a book store near you. Read it, learn the facts...THE FACTS.....then come back here and post what you have learned.

They are the biggest hidden financial burden in our country, especially in California. You cannot argue fact unless you are pushing lies.

Im not a racist, not even close, so please keep the Lib. card up your sleeve.

I have nothing against legal immigrants that come here , work hard and make a contribution. I absoultely despise those that come here illegally, never attempt to adapt, never attempt to learn english, never pay taxes, get free education, are allowed to vote without being a citizen, commit crimes (when was the last time you checked out how much of our prison population is comprised of illegal immigrants?) and free load on tax payer dollars.

Do you know we have a guy in Stockton that is running for a seat in the Mexican congress?!?! From within our borders! He was cuaght and deported 4 times before he made it back over and people who share the same thought as yourself said "Lets grant him amnesty". It wasnt that he wanted to be a citizen, it was given to him! The only people in the world that I know of that are consistently rewarded for breaking our laws are illegal immigrants. Do you know that somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 out of 7 illegals will NEVER graduate high school?

Please grab that book and read it. It is not fiction and should clear up that clouded "let them all come over, they arent hurting anybody" thoughts you are having. Hopefully it will prevent you from becoming one of the people that go out and place water across the desert to help people who are crossing into our country illegally.

In California it is literally an unarmed invasion but nobody says anything about it because like you, they make decisions based on feelings and being PC so as to not "upset" anyone....you know, as opposed to clear concise thought based on facts.

And Hilljack, brother, graemlins/thumbsup.gif graemlins/hurray.gif ON the money!

Also, if someone equates you to the Aryan Nation they are indeed suggesting you are a racist since this is nothing but a racist group.

If I stated you remind me of Al Qaida would'nt you assume I meant terroist POS in the desert hiding like a little bitch?

Great posts, guys (who speak out about the invasion we experience and are forced to deal with)...I cannot add much more to it right now, other than this is one of my pet peeves of current 'political' events and cannot wait for the day there will be a change ('course, I'm sure I'll run outta breath by then)...

Mexifornia...lol, classic...I always joke about that's where I live and now there's a book with that title...I must read it smile.gif

So, the question is: we all know the (huge) problem, so where is the answer? Where do we sign up for change?

Originally posted by John_R:

Mexifornia...lol, classic...I always joke about that's where I live and now there's a book with that title...I must read it smile.gif

Please do John. I am picking up a full copy after work today. I read several chapters at B&N the other evening after hearing a lengthy interview with the author on the radio. Very informative read but please be forewarned it will most likely anger and frustrate you and it will DEFINITELY open your eyes to the severity of this issue.

I agree with you guys that the illegal immigration thing is a huge problem here in the US. It's interesting for me to read this topic because I myself am of hispanic descent. I am the first generation born in the U.S. Both of my parents came over from Costa Rica...they did it the legal way though.

The really interesting thing to me is when I go back to Costa Rica (as I do often) and hear the people down there talk about the U.S. You'd think they were handing out Money at the airport the way people there talk about coming here...and keep in mind that Costa Rica is most likely the most well off and stable country in Central America. People there belittle my accomplishments as a professional and graduate of a prestigeous university because they think that it's "so easy" to succeed up here. It's really frustrating.

I think the answer may lie in foreign relations and education about what it takes to survive up here. A lot of the illegal aliens I see here (So. California) look as though they would probably living a better life back at home. I don't know where I'm going with this but the way I figure it I would probably have the same impression as those people if my parents had never emmigrated and would have brought me up in Costa Rica. I guess what I'm saying is that education is key...as it usually is.

My 2 pesos,

--rO

I guess you guys really got me straightened out. I see clearly now that you have stated your arguements so persuasively. How very foolish of me to think that anything other than the illegals were the cause of all our problems. There was a man in Germany in the 1930's who had identified the root of all of his countrys problems to a particular group of people. It didn't play out to well for him or the people who followed him then, I don't think it will play out any better now here.

I think that's an unfair comparison. Nobody is trying to pick on any one group of people here because of how they look or where they're from but rather becuase of what they have done and which laws they have broken...i think people are just making a point of the fact that there a lot of people taking advantage of our government. I don't know if this impacts car taxes at all...and I really don't care all that much. I think the more important point is that there are people taking advantage of resources that we pay for and this is a problem that cannot be glanced over because it's not PC to discuss. Also, many of these people don't come to this country with the intentions of doing so but rather are unpleasantly surprised by how hard it is to succeed in this country and therefore are mearly trying to finish what they've started. Education is the key to remedy this problem...at least that's what I think.

I can't say that I'd agree with calling a whole segment of the population vermin but there are those among them that have less than honorable intentions...then again there are those amongst all of us with less that honorable intentions.

and...I'm spent

--rO

Ro, I have to say I agree with you. Of all that has been written here, including my own running of at the mouth, yours is by far the most thought out observation.
To anyone I have offended I apologise. Heck I just like to build nice machines, thats why I come here. I should leave politics to the politicians.

It doesnt come down to us being the nazi's vs the jews because we don't hate them nor are we trying to persecute them. The problem is that they(anyone) comes over illegally and use billions of dollars annually that they will NEVER pay back because they dont/cant pay taxes without a social security card. It's a HELL of a lot of money, that could be used to balance the budget instead of fund people that can't get here by legal means.

Originally posted by Bryanz1:
There was a man in Germany in the 1930's who had identified the root of all of his countrys problems to a particular group of people. It didn't play out to well for him or the people who followed him then, I don't think it will play out any better now here. This is my last post here on this topic but I just have to point out that the man you speak of had ALOT in common with the Liberal left, who also feel inclined to leave our borders open. I would like to point out a few things about that "guy"

1. He was an animal rights extremist and believed that industry and factories were pure evil and he was also a vegetarian

2. His "party" forced the registration and confiscation of firearms, which lead to his "police" confiscating weapons from the masses and killing those who did not comply

3. He was anti-smoking to the core

4. He believed in a medical reform much like what is being pushed through currently in our country - free health care for all, yada, yada

5. He forced the people to accept the ideas that his party set forth and anyone who did not follow was considered evil and confused or an "extremist".

So, without going further into detail you should realize that the far left in this country, whether you want to believe it or not, follow much of the same path and have much of the same beliefs as "that man" and in turn have much more in common then you realize. Having said that, to compare "that man" to what is generally percieved as a conservative ideal in this country is ludicrous. If he were in our country today, with the idea's he stood for (sans the murder of innocent people based on who they are) he would be applauded and most likely running for Governor of California.

The end.

Oh, nobody go toffended dude, just good discussion.

And Robando, excellent posts. graemlins/hurray.gif graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Thank you sir...I figure if I can't provide any tech help (yet) I might as well provide some good food for thought.

--rO