My olds still has all 4 T3 origonal headlights in it, and it is DIM AS HELL. Are the parts store replacement headlights just as dim, or are they actually better?

Thanks-
Ben


------------------
Ben Rambow
1969 El Camino Custom (http://www.chevelles.com/feature/july2001.html)
1968 Olds Delmont 88 Convertable (http://www.442.com/vcs/1964_1972/rambow.html)
"Reliable is boring- My life is exciting!"

the parts store bulbs are probably halogen so they will be brighter, it just depends on if you want the car to have t-3's which several companys are repopping for 100.00 bucs a set or halogen....

I would hang on to the T-3's. About a year ago I went to a junk yard and removed about eight T-3's from old cars. They charged me a dollar each. My 69 Chevelle has headlights that are way better than my 95 Dodge Intrepid.

------------------
R.E. Stancliff

It's probably no fault of the bulbs that they're dim so new ones probably will be dim too

You most likely have some bad/corroded connections somrwhere

If you check the voltage at your headlight connection, I'm sure you'll find it hovering in the 10.6 to 11.8 range. This will be the cause of your dim lights.

The cure is to splice in two relays, one for the low-beams and one for the high, to the lights.

To keep from butchering your wiring loom, you'll need to buy:

2ea Male spade terminals
20ea Female spade terminals
-(Or 4ea Replacement Headlamp Sockets
and 12ea Female spade terminals)
2ea 30amp automotive relays
2ea sections of 16ga fusible link
A link of 12ga wire

Here's what to do:
1) Attach one end of each of the two fusible links to two lengths of 12ga wire.
2) Attach the other end of each of the fusible links to the juction box (+) leading from the battery.
3) Attach the other end of your 12ga wires, to each of the relay terminals marked with a #30.
4) Attach a length of the wire from each of the relay terminals marked #85 to a good ground.
5) Disconnect the sockets from your headlights, and attach a length of the wire with a male terminal on one end, into the TOP connector slot on one of the high-beam sockets (3-post); the other end of this wire connects to terminal #86 on one of the relays. Run two wires from terminal #87 on this same relay, to the top post on each of your high-beams.(Using female terminals)
6) Connect a male terminal ended wire from the low-beam (green wire) socket on the car's loom, to terminal #86 on the other relay; and like-wise, four wires connected together, from terminal #87 on this relay, to the right side spade connection on each of the four headlights on your car.
7)Connect the other spade (left side) of each headlight, with wires to a good ground.

That's it........

If you check the voltage at your headlights now, it should be 13.4v to 14.4v with the engine running, and the paint should be bubbling on your garage door.

Enjoy


------------------
Fueling the addiction:
67 Malibu (sb406/700R4)
70 SS454 M/C (roller 468/Switch-Pitch TH400)
74 Jensen (96 Northstar/700R4)
69 Jeepster ('96 4.3/700R4)
72 Chevy C10 ('99 Vortec 355/2004R)
50 Merc Woodie (Being chopped, dropped, and planted on a Stretched 70 Monte chasis, '01 Vortec 406/700R4)

"A drag race is like a gun-fight....... there IS no 'second-place winner'

[This message has been edited by LDS^SS (edited 01-28-2002).]

After narrowly missing the local wildlife in the Buick, out came the T-3s and in went some halogen bulbs. The halogens are cheap, and they're ABSOLUTELY whiter and brighter. You won't believe the difference. For a car like mine that's driven nearly every day, I would put the T3s on a shelf.

------------------
Tony Nausieda
1970 SS 396-4??hp
1977 Caprice, no dingle balls or hydraulics
1966 Buick GS
1965 Le Mans 468
1639 total cubic inches :)

Thanks for the replies guys! I'll check the voltage and see what its putting out, but i may also just buy a couple low beam halogens from Napa and see if they are brighter as Tony mentioned....

I really don't care about being origonal on this car (correctness waved bye bye a long time go for this car http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif ) I just want to be able to see the road at night!

Thanks!
Ben

Well...I was about to say, send them T's my way, since you don't care about the originality thing...but unfortunately the 69 version would be incorrect for a 66 http://www.chevelles.com/forum/frown.gif

Good luck

Mike

------------------
MY 66 SS.COM (http://hometown.aol.com/mysterychevelle/66CHEVELLESS.html)
ACES # 1493
TEAM # 751
MCC # 501
AACA # 112348

But I know a certain car that they will fit on http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif



------------------
J.J. Fig
MCC member #256
Maryland Chevelle Club (http://www.chevelles.net/mcc/mcc.htm)
Dad's 69 SS (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/figs_orange_69ss.jpg)
Mom's 71 SS Convertible (http://www.chevelles.net/mcc/features/aug00.htm)

This is my second daily driver '68 Chevelle. GET THE HALOGENS!!! You won't be sorry. They are so much better than the T3s. Put those on the shelf and get some light!

------------------
David Reinecke - aka - FINE 68
1968 Chevelle 300 Sport Coupe Deluxe
www.geocities.com/jdreinecke (http://www.geocities.com/jdreinecke)

Where I`m from, something is worth what someone will pay. How much would a functioning pair of T-3 highbeams be worth for a 67 ?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lucifermoon:
something is worth what someone will pay. How much would a functioning pair of T-3 highbeams be worth for a 67 ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you just answered your own question.

------------------
MY 66 SS.COM (http://hometown.aol.com/mysterychevelle/66CHEVELLESS.html)
ACES # 1493
TEAM # 751
MCC # 501
AACA # 112348

I know its the wrong format so spank me. But I have 4 orginal T3s in a 54K '67 Cutlass and the same in a '70 Cutlass with 93K orignal miles. I'm not a purist, lights is lights. Get my drift? If not,order from Year One.

I got some Hella H4's in my 67 with relays, airplanes wanna land on me

------------------
Thomas (AKA Hot66ss)
66 Super Sport (http://chevelles.com/showroom/myss.jpg) Now striped frame off Project
67 Malibu (http://chevelles.com/showroom/hot66ss4) Getting there.
69 El camino Beater FOR SALE (http://members.aol.com/chvellss/elco.htm) Mild 355, M20 4 speed (Daily Driver)
Video of me in the Elco smoking the tires (http://members.aol.com/chevelleparts/mvc-059w.mpg)
Aces Member 2380
Team Chevelle member #262

You don't need extra relays unless you are upgrading to halogens

Adding a relay to fix a symptom is not really fixing the problem and would be just setting youself up for more future problems with not needed relays

It really all depends on how much and where you drive at night and how much trouble you want to go through to have the brighter halogens ie, upgrading the car's wiring to be able to handle the extra load

The old T-3's, when properly adjusted and getting the proper voltage should be plenty bright for normal driving and like I said, if they are DIM AS HELL, it's caused by a poor connection somewhere in the circuit



[This message has been edited by Dean (edited 01-30-2002).]

Hella conversions are the only way to go, switching to the H4 bulb is like night and day (literally). and if you want to be REALLY cool/trendy you can put in the white or blue bulbs like all the honda guys got. wouldnt that be funny?? they would think we were stealing there Style..... can you call the ***** a style????? ANSWER= NO!!!!!


------------------
Justin McIver
Sacramento CA
66...454...T-56

how much do those new Hella?? H4 bulbs cost?

------------------
70 El Camino SS 396
3.73 with a 12 bolt

http://www.geocities.com/bodukess/my_elco_page.html

I pulled the original working set of T-3s from my '67 Chevelle and put them in boxes. The light they produced was barely adequate but fit right in with the 1940 U.S light standards. After remembering that our 1970 Biscayne lost a T-3 when it was 6 mos. old I decided to replace mine with halogens, just regular store bought GEs. Big difference, and I won't cry if I break one. I actually bought some dusty NOS Delco Power Beams for a 4-lamp car but I never installed them. I recently tried to buy them for a 2-lamp car ('70-'75 Monte or post-'70 Chevelle) but the Power Beams have been superceded.
I say go for the halogens; I still love it when I see T-3s on a car though.

WHAT'S WITH ALL THIS HEART-ACHE AGAIN, OVER THE USE OF RELAYS, DEAN?

I pay my membership, and I invest a great deal of time in helping to ease my brother's automotive burden.

I'm not passing along "Bench Racing balogne" that I read in some 'Race Rag' about dipping pistons in kitchen scouring powder before start-up to seat the rings.

I did exactly what this forum was designed to do.

1)I suggested a simple and straight-forward test that would enable Ben to quickly diagnose the cause of his problem.

2)I outlined a simple step-by-step proceedure to cure his problem, without him having to butcher his wiring harness.

It's a given that the dim lighting is probably due to a voltage drop, induced by the increased resistance that 30 years of moving/worn out parts and electrolytic corrosion has created.

But just how helpful do you think the : "you most likely have some bad/corroded connections somrwhere"-sic , was to the poor guy?

He doesn't want to hear that he's probably going to have to replace his worn light switch and dimmer switch; and his corroded fuse box, and wiring loom with mega-buck NOS pieces, so he can retain his T-3s, or get even more light out of the halogens.


When a member spends as much time on a post as I did, to help this guy, we really don't appreciate having our work belittled.

--"You don't need extra relays....
.....not needed relays"


Well........he probably doesn't NEED the extra drivetrain or suspension performance modifications that are being suggested in our forum either.........


Electronic relays are 21st Century tools. If they didn't work, the General wouldn't be designing the next generation of vehicles with them.

------------------
Fueling the addiction:
67 Malibu (sb406/700R4)
70 SS454 M/C (roller 468/Switch-Pitch TH400)
74 Jensen (96 Northstar/700R4)
69 Jeepster ('96 4.3/700R4)
72 Chevy C10 ('99 Vortec 355/2004R)
50 Merc Woodie (Being chopped, dropped, and planted on a Stretched 70 Monte chasis, '01 Vortec 406/700R4)

"A drag race is like a gun-fight....... there IS no 'second-place winner'

But LDS, that is not fixing the original problem.Where is the voltage drop at?Will there be a different problem arising later if the problem isn't fixed?I say address the problem at it's source and I think Dean was trying to say that and was probably not even thinking about it offending you.Ease up man.It's not life or death.My dad use to always tell me"Don't sweat the small stuff,be glad we're living and breathing and not in a grave".I wish he were still here to talk to sometimes. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/frown.gifIt will all work out. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

------------------
John 67SS
ACES #2887
Team Chevelle Gold #127

I'm wondering, if I replace the low beams T-3's with regular old Wagner halogen low beams, can I do it without worrying about relays ? The wiring appears to be in good condition, all terminals have been cleaned, and I replaced the engine wiring harness with a new one from M&H.

I have to chime in on this one!

For those that know me, I am no stranger to car electrical systems... I get sick of hearing the "dim headlights" question

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO USE RELAYS TO FIX THE TYPICAL "MY LIGHTS ARE TOO DIM SYNDROME".


The corrosion Dean was referring to and is 99% of the time is IN THE LIGHT SOCKETS THEMSELVES!. Clean them! I had a COMPLETELY, YES COMPLETELY DEAD PASSENGER HIGH BEAM ON MY '70 AS THE RESULT OF DIRT IN THE LAMP SOCKET!



Clean your sockets first!!! Then, if need be you can always chop off the sockets, go into any respectable parts store and buy generic replacement sockets for you headlights. Splice them into the factory harness and VOILA!. Low voltage is the result of a voltage drop do to corrosion. As I stated 99% of the time, it's crap in the sockets themselves!

If you don't think I know what I'm doing, I'll show you my car sometime--upgraded in 1997 with Wagner Halogens, direct drop in replacements. 100% improvement!!! ALL of the existing factory wires were used including the 30++ year old crappy grounds and all. To this day they still work, not a single problem or a single relay under the hood for headlights.

For those of you that care, drop in replacemetns for factory sealed beams (on a four lamp system) are Wagner Halogen H5001 and H5006's. (you need 2 of each #).

If you still have a voltage drop after "hacking" into the wiring, you've got bigger problems. Using Relays to achieve factory spec's on voltage is like giving an a person that just lost an arm in battle a band-aid. A rediculous quick fix that focuses on one small element of a much larger problem that needs attention. If you've got harness corrosion, fuse box corrosion causing voltage drops, you better forget your headlights and focus on those issues!

NOW, before I flack about "zero relays", You DO need relays if you are upgrading to Hella or Halogena or any other advanced high power lighting systems. This is because these lamp units draw significantly more current than the factory units. The factory wiring will not work and your lights will blink on and off as the thermal breaker inside your light switch goes crazy with the over-load.

Wiring relays takes time, patience and know-how. Not something an owner of "dim headlights" car should involve themselves in unless they are confident--I find most of the time this NOT the case (p.s. that was not directed at the original poster).

Off the soap box. Good Day.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LDS^SS:
WHAT'S WITH ALL THIS HEART-ACHE AGAIN, OVER THE USE OF RELAYS, DEAN?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LDS, I was just stating the TRUTH that's all
And the truth is NO EXTRA RELAYS NEED TO BE ADDED to fix headlights that are "dim as hell" I know because I have done it many many times

LDS,your help here is greatly appreciated and I'm sure that is very valuable information for anyone wanting to upgrade their headlights but there is no need to get upset about this stuff

He can get different opinions from different people and choose for himself what he wants to do

If you look up, you will see that I had answered first so turn the situation around
I told him what his problem was before you posted so in effect "you were correcting me"

sorryI didn't mean it to sound like I was belittling you or your post

To back up what Coppertop had said, I too have been running H5001's and H5006's for a long time in my Chevelle with no problems at all. AND, no relays. The old adage "Keep It Simple Stupid" hold up very well. Check your grounds, and inspect the lamp sockets carefully. I use "DeoxIT-D5" to clean the contacts. This, on a car with 570,000+ miles AND the original underhood harnesses!

------------------
MalibuJerry350
TC Member #1279
Original owner '70 Chevelle.
568,000+ miles on car.
Hey, if it's got wheels, DRIVE IT!
My Chevelle: http://hometown.aol.com/erie614/myhomepage/index.html

Lol... http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif I feel so proud to have started my own contraversial topic! 20 plus replys! &lt;sniff&gt; http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Thanks for all the comments guys- I still havn't tried anything yet- The car in question (68 oldsmobile) is still covered up in my driveway due to all the snow and messy weather we've been having lately, but as soon as it clears up for more than a few minutes at a time, i'll go out and try some things.

How would I go about "CLEANING" the contacts in these connectors? Do they come apart, or is there some kind of solvent I can dip them in?

Thanks!
Ben

I appreciate the apology, and like-wise extend mine.

In an instant, I more fully understood why Ed (racer1320) finally threw in the towel, and gave up on trying to defend himself in our forum.

Just as Coppertop's experience with his own vehicle's dirty headlight socket, would tend to have him direct members to that as a fix, the last '67 that I addressed was found to have a substantial voltage drop through the contacts in the headlight switch and dimmer switch. It can be a time consuming and frustrating exercise at times, to locate the source of electrical problems; I really took the easy way out, in suggesting a sure fix, rather than try to teach Ben how to explore all the possible sources of this voltage drop.

In retrospect, having Ben look at his sockets first, should have indeed been the initial suggestion. (Addressing the easy fixes first)

Being that the relays require but a fraction of the vehicle's voltage, to deliver a full 14V to the headlights, I knew that this would be a sure solution for him, no matter what, or where, the actual problem was arrising from....and he'd have his headlights back.

Let's kiss and make up.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by boduke:
how much do those new Hella?? H4 bulbs cost?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well, they are not cheep, I was lucky to get mine at COST from a buddy who owned a shop, still cost was $135 bucks for 4. They are the hot ticket though for sure!

------------------
Thomas (AKA Hot66ss)
66 Super Sport (http://chevelles.com/showroom/myss.jpg) Now striped frame off Project
67 Malibu (http://chevelles.com/showroom/hot66ss4) Getting there.
69 El camino Beater FOR SALE (http://members.aol.com/chvellss/elco.htm) Mild 355, M20 4 speed (Daily Driver)
Video of me in the Elco smoking the tires (http://members.aol.com/chevelleparts/mvc-059w.mpg)
Aces Member 2380
Team Chevelle member #262