Hi all, new to the board here.

I am gathering information for a near future purchase of a 1969 or 1970 Chevelle SS. I have been lurking here for a few weeks gathering a lot of useful information.

I would like to purchase a nicely restored Chevelle. I do not have the time or the knowledge/know-how to restore one myself. I am looking to spend 20-30K, but am unsure where to look.

I am trying to learn enough about the cars and their restoration to make a qualified judgement on the condition of a car myself, so I can confidently purchase from a fellow enbthusiast and not get ripped off due to a lack of knowlege.

In the mean time, I have discovered many bads stories of mis-representation among the classic car dealers out there.

Are there any that folks have had good experiences with? I realize it is always "buyer beware", but I would like to know if there are dealers with a pretty good reputation to aid in my search.

Also, I may have to purchase a car through a dealer, as I will have to finance part of the purchase price, and I am not sure how my bank feels about loans on such things.

Mike

Try e-automania.com
He specialises in nice old cars.

Your first and best step was to join in here! There are lots of folks here who can help you avoid the most common pitfalls of buying a car. In fact, perhaps one of our family may have a car you can acquire.

Even if you don't have the time and/or ability to fix up a car, you do need to arm yourself with knowledge and information when buying a classic car of any type. Be prepared to walk away from a car if it just isn't right and only YOU can make the final decision to buy or not to buy so make sure you know the basics to avoid buying something that is not what it appears to be. If you are willing to spend that kind of money you should be able to get a quality car with a good and documented history. But that same amount can also buy you junk and there are plenty of folks willing to sell it to you!

In my opinion, most if not all classic car dealers don't know what they are talking about nor do they know what makes a quality restored car. Some ARE car guys and know what they are talking about but most are glorified used car salesmen and aren't much help in protecting your investment by providing good information or documentation.

Good luck in your search and please ask any and all questions you can, there are plenty of folks here who can help. Especially with the 1970 models!

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NCOA member #220 ACES member #1670
Team Chevelle #998 YesterYears Chevys #52949
American Muscle Car Association #142
Rich's 1965 Malibu SS Restoration Project Progress Page (http://www.geocities.com/ticklewiggle/)
President, Heartland Chevelle Club
http://heartland.chevelles.net

I will tend to agree with Rich, most of the classic car dealers seem to be just typical used car salesmen, and really know little to nothing about classic cars, and restoration...

Coupled to that is the stereo-typical used car sales tricks (cheap/quick re-paints, details, unrealistic valuations, mis-information, etc).

I think even those dealers that truly do know about Clasic cars and the marketplace, still tend to mis-represent of price their vehicles. But to be fair, they not only are looking for their profit, but advertising costs, and I would also think the typical buyer would try to haggle some on the price...

I placed my car at a dealers lot (on consignment. I told him I wanted $6K (or more), and he advertised the car for over $10K...

Remember, these dealers are in business to make a profit. That said, I believe you can still find a decent deal at a dealer, but you need to be knowledgable...

Not that buying from a private party will be any different, unless its someone you can trust...

I think you first need to decide what year and model you are looking for, and then start asking questions/ gathering info about that particular car. Arm yourself with the most information you can get... I'd also check with your bank, because you should be able to finance through them too (maybe get a better rate). You might have to pay the first 25% or 30% downpayment, and they will probably want an appraisal of the car... The seller should allow you to have the car appraised before you buy...

Another note, ask to see pictures and receipts of the restoration... Someone that performed a nice restoration (not a quick cheap cleanup) will likely have lots of detailed photos showing body work/panel replacement, etc. And maybe some before resto shots to see where he started. And since you are looking for a 1969 or 1970 SS, ask for paperwork or documentation, to prove its a real SS and not a clone... Nothing wrong with a clone, as long as you only pay for a clone...

Take your time and don't be in a rush when buying... even if the seller says he has several other people coming over soon to buy the car, take your time.

Just like any used vehicle purchase, If you are really interested and everything has checked out, ask to take it to a mechanic and an appraiser



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"Once you go RAT, you never go back..."
TC #1366
Tony
The Chevelle (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/1966_L78/ChevelleA.jpg)
Dual Quad 396 (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/1966_L78/ChevelleC.jpg)
Side View (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/1966_L78/ChevelleD.jpg)

Welcome to the best Chevelle site!! As you can tell I am in Hickory (5 Hours west of you) but I also have a place at Oak Island. A very good person to talk to is James Hinshaw I can give you his number if you e-mail me. I also know a guy here in town that my want to sell his 69 Convertible it would most likely be in the upper 30's or lower 40's but it's one of the nicest that I have seen. If I can help feel free to e-mail.

Mike,, you have mail,,,,

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<LI> ACES Charter member # 73 <LI>TEAM CHEVELLE # GOLD # 9
<LI> 69 Garnett Red Yenko Replica 427/4spd / 70, LS-5 ,4 speed, A/C , Corvette Coupe
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/blewis166

Thanks for the info guys I really appreciate it. I am quickly discovering the merrits of this site, I have learned a lot already.

I am more interested in getting a quality restoration and good car than I am in paying a few grand (within reason!) too much if that makes sense?

I am still gathering info on determining a real SS from a clone, options available etc. I would be devastated if I paid that kind of money for a car and then later, I found out, because of my own ignorance, I purchased a car that was not what it was supposed to be or had something terribly wrong in an area I knew nothing about.

Someone mentioned an appraisal. I have been thinking about this as well. I am more than willing to pay a company or individual to inspect/appraise a car for me. I think this too can be a pitfall, as the inspector may not know the nuances/quirks of the particular car you are looking at, but I guess it would be a start. If anyone has any info on a good inpector/inspection company, please post it. Hell, I will pay someone on this board who knows their stuff to go look at one for me-though a purchase is still some time away. I want to research this until I am comfortable, and I just plopped down a hude wad of cash for a new garage.

RED64SS RAGTOP-Nice to meet you, I have spent some time on Oak Island myself, I like it over there, but settled closer to work in Carolina Beach.

Thanks, L89 sedan, I will chack it as soon as I get home. Right now, I am very busy pretending to work.

In the FWIW dept.

If Nick Lewis aka L89 Sedan is saying "You Got Mail".....you can be rest assurred that the car is A+ and you can take that to the BANK!

Mike Crown

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ACES # 1493
MCC # 501
TC # 751
AACA
66 MYSTERY CHEVELLE.COM (http://hometown.aol.com/mysterychevelle/66CHEVELLESS.html)

And this is why when I am ready to look for "that" car I will be able to get some help from my friends here at TC. Now I just gotta get a garage first!!!

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J.J. Fig
MCC member #256
Maryland Chevelle Club (http://www.chevelles.net/mcc/mcc.htm)
Dad's 69 SS (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/figs_orange_69ss.jpg)
Mom's 71 SS Convertible (http://www.chevelles.net/mcc/features/aug00.htm)

LOL, Fig

That is exactly what I have done. After years of planning/saving, I have just started construction of my garage (actually they start jan 6th). It is not as large as I wanted-my plans were stymied by the zoning laws here in Carolina Beach, but it will do.

Now I am trying to get "the" car for me too.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 66 MYSTERY CHEVELLE:
If Nick Lewis aka L89 Sedan is saying "You Got Mail".....you can be rest assurred that the car is A+ and you can take that to the BANK!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can confirm Mike Crown's above comment from first hand experience.

There's information on this board that will help you verify some of the components of an SS car, go here (http://www.chevelles.com/shop/ss_ident.html).

If it is indeed a 69 you may be considering, I have an extensive "Resource Center" on my car website with everything from models to options to POP deciphering and a lot more which may be of help to you as well. Just look for the link from my main page.

Be a little careful with using an appraiser to scope an out of town car. When I was looking for a 69 in 2000 I had an appraiser check out a 69 SS in St. Louis and the report came back just "cherry". I put a deposit on the car, hooked up my trailer and went down to check it and finalize the deal. Turned out to be a "real piece of crap" although the pictures looked great. Four days on the road there and back and the appraisal fee as well, a lot of wasted time and money.

I would be more confident to have a member in here check out a car for me than an unknown appraiser. A fellow member checked out a car for me in Kansas City in 2000 as well, but it was also of poor quality. There are many on here that would do that for you, all you have to do is ask.

Good luck with your search and don't be shy about asking questions. I also welcome you to our great little part of the world http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif


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69 SS Sedan (http://www.angelfire.com/rock/69ss)
CanAm Chevelle Club (http://www.angelfire.com/folk/canam)
2003 Northern Chevelle Gathering (http://www.angelfire.com/folk/canam/page35.html)

When I mentioned the appraiser, it was mainly for the banks use if trying to finance the purchase...

I had a local appraiser tell my friend that a known clone was worth the same as a true SS... Makes me wonder what it takes to hang a shingle out for auto appraisals...

Thanks alot for the replys everyone. Damn, you guys are great! http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

You have given me a lot of info to go on, and I really do appreciate it.

Just remember don't by anything that you don't look at in person. I don't know anyone that hasn't been screwed buying a car by looking at pictures. A friend just bought a 70 vert supposed to be a 9 it is a weak 4 there are holes in it big enough to crawl into but the pictures were done to make it look nice.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 1966_L78:
When I mentioned the appraiser, it was mainly for the banks use if trying to finance the purchase...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Understood Tony, hopefully you didn't think I was trying to contradict you http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif. I just wanted to give reference to my bad experience.


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69 SS Sedan (http://www.angelfire.com/rock/69ss)
CanAm Chevelle Club (http://www.angelfire.com/folk/canam)
2003 Northern Chevelle Gathering (http://www.angelfire.com/folk/canam/page35.html)

Mike, Find out if you are buying the car from the Dealer or he is just renting space and you are buying the car from a private party. Find out the State law where you are buying the car. In most states the dealer has to back everything he says about the car, Make sure you get it on paper. The private party can play dumb and you are stuck without any help from the state.
A dealer gets paid for selling cars, Not making you happy after the sale.
I was told that honest used car salesmen don't stay in business long. Everyone expects them to lie, If they told the truth no one would belive them anyway. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

Thanx to Mike and Don for the kind words,,,, Im sure theres nicer cars out there ,, But I dont know if anyone tries any harder than I do,, to turn out a "perfect" product,,it never happens of course,, but each time I try to get alittle bit better,,, 2 a year seems to be the pace I can now keep up with, since my back went out,,and,still working a full time job,, I wish I was a collector and could just maitain a couple,, but its a sickness I think,, a buildaholic http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif Thanx Again and happy hunting!! stay away from them "puppy mill cars" !!!!

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<LI> ACES Charter member # 73 <LI>TEAM CHEVELLE # GOLD # 9
<LI> 69 Garnett Red Yenko Replica 427/4spd / 70, LS-5 ,4 speed, A/C , Corvette Coupe
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/blewis166

mike

check your mail

nice to see someone from the Wilmington area here on Team Chevelle.

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Brandon

1966 ss396 chevelle
427 11:1 rect.heads
4 speed 3.55 posi
1967 chevy biscayne 2 dr.
350 th-350
3.55 posi

Hi Ringer, welcome to TC. The advise you've gotten in this thread is dead-on.

I was in exactly your same situaton about three years ago. My best advise would be to not get in a hurry. Learn everything you can. Search car-trader magazines, classic car dealers, web sites, ads here on TC, Ebay, everywhere you can. I'm not endorsing those as good places to buy a car, but every contact you make can be educational in some way. Keep asking questions here on TC too. This site has some of the most knowledgable Chevelle guys in the world. You've gotten responses from a few of them already.

Most Chevelle nuts tend to focus on one or two model years. But, appraisers and dealers are forced to deal with all types and years of vehicles. It's much harder to be an expert if you have such a broad focus.
If you can get a true Chevelle nut to look over a car, his opinion would be far more valuable than almost any professional appraiser, IMO.

You're right about banks not being wild about financing these vehicles. Unless you're a really good customer, your local bank is going to be a little leary on this. And don't expect to get their best rate. While it's true that a dealership can usually arrange financing, you'll pay for that too. My experience, in searching for almost two years, was that a dealer will price a car about 25%-30% higher than an individual.

The really great cars won't usually go through a dealership. Owners of the best cars are more likely sell them themselves. The guy I got my car from was not going to sell it to just anybody. He wanted to find someone who would cherish the car the way he did. I felt like I was in an interview when I went to look at my car. When you find someone like that, you're way ahead in the game. Dealers that restore cars for resale are not likely to spend the same amount of time and $$$ that an individual who had the car restored for himself. There's plently of guys who have invested WAY more than the value of the car in it's restoration. It's great when you can find one like that for sale, but it won't happen often.

Documenting a 69 or 70 SS is tough. You probably already know that the VIN is not much help here. You'll want to see a build sheet, window sticker, protect-o-plate, and original dealer invoice if possible. Cars with that kind of docs will demand a slightly higher price, but it's worth it if you want to be certain of what you're getting.

I can really indentify with you. For me, the search was half the fun and the learing will never stop. Good luck. Keep us posted!

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Bob Von Kaenel
70 SS 54k orig miles
My car. (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/barista70front.jpg)
The red interior. (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/barista70interior2.jpg)
The engine. (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/barista70engine.jpg)
Hood trim. (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/baristasgirls.jpg)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Don_lightfoot:
Be a little careful with using an appraiser to scope an out of town car. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don is absolutely correct! I had a bad experience with this situation also http://www.chevelles.com/forum/mad.gif You will get lots of helpful advice on this site. Take your time, ask questions, and take advantage of the wealth of knowledge and experience of the people here!



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Bill Pritchard
69 SS396 Convertible
"Life is short; eat dessert first." - Ogden Nash
My low tech web page (http://home.att.net/~bpritchard/wsb/index.html)

hey mike this the best site for info anywhere.if your spending that much money i wouldn't even consider buying one without docu. my bank will not make car loans on cars 10 years old or older. about the best deal around here is to get a home equity loan. much better rate than auto or personal loan.bank didn't mind it was for a car.i had to borrow at least $10,000 for that loan. just something for you to check into.welcome to T.C. good luck hunting. jerry

the Credit Unions around here offer Classic Car loans, last one i got was 6.9%

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70 SS396 CHEVELLE
70.5 Z/28 RALLYSPORT
ACES#4390
some pics http://community.webshots.com/album/12590431pqkzKyilTC