I have a Muncie M-20 that is starting to show signs of a problem. When shifting from 3rd to 4th, it will not always go into gear, but instead grinds like the clutch is not releasing. If I keep trying, eventually it will go, but always leaves me with the feeling that I didn’t quite get it all the way engaged.
I don’t think that the clutch is the problem as I can find reverse gear from a stop with no grinding, so I’m reasonably sure the clutch is adjusted properly and is fully disengaging. 1st and 2nd gears shift smoothly both on upshifts and downshifts.
I don’t think the shifter linkage is the problem either. I have gradually adjusted the 3-4 rod away from the neutral position, lengthening it so as to give more emphasis to 4th gear, but the problem is still there.
Occasionally, I will get a slight grind when going from 2nd to 3rd, but not every time, and not very pronounced.
Any ideas? Am I looking at a rebuild?
I know any answer could only be a guess at this point. I could remove the side cover, but not having much transmission experience, would probably not know what to look for anyway.
Any help appreciated. Thanks.
Ed

Your right about being a guess. I'm guessing the slider or the gear engagement teeth have gotten a little worn or the syncro is worn as well. There are sliders made to help with this problem, Torq-Loc.

Does it become more of a problem after ou drive a while or does it do it from the start??

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www.muncie4speed.com (http://www.muncie4speed.com)
Gold 67
1967 Malibu, 2nd owner.
1971 Malibu, been in the family since new.
There is nothing like rowing through the gears at 7500. Stick cars are so much fun they should be a controlled substance!

Thanks Wally.
I would say the more I drive and the warmer the transmission gets, the worse it gets. This is something that just kind of snuck up on me. Went from seeing it very occasionally to happening very often in a rather short time.

Check that clutch when it's hot. The disk could be growing a little when it gets hot and the adjustment just a hair off. If your lucky that's all it is but if Murphy lives with you like he does me, it's in the trans.

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www.muncie4speed.com (http://www.muncie4speed.com)
Gold 67
1967 Malibu, 2nd owner.
1971 Malibu, been in the family since new.
There is nothing like rowing through the gears at 7500. Stick cars are so much fun they should be a controlled substance!

The next time I get it warmed up, I'll see if I can get into reverse without any grinding. But, it sounds like I may have found a winter project.
Should a trans rebuild be attempted by those like me who have seen the insides of engines more than once, but never had the occasion to tear into a transmission? I'm not afraid of a challange, but don't have any transmission experience.

Just get a good kit and you can do it. There are a few things you will need a little help with but nothing most people can't handle.

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www.muncie4speed.com (http://www.muncie4speed.com)
Gold 67
1967 Malibu, 2nd owner.
1971 Malibu, been in the family since new.
There is nothing like rowing through the gears at 7500. Stick cars are so much fun they should be a controlled substance!

I think I'll try to live with it until the winter weather hits, then will decide whether to tackle it myself or farm it out.
What should I look for in a rebuild kit?
I have seen kits offered in several different places, but would appreciate advise on what to look for & what to stay away from.

Wally or Larry Fischer of D and L Transmission can provide you with a kit which has everything-----------except new sliders.
Your problem is quite common when the brass ring portion of the synchronizer becomes worn. A set of 4 brass rings comes in every rebuild kit. You COULD probably fix the problem by replacing JUST the 4th gear brass ring. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you basically have to tear the tranny apart to do this. So, if you were going to go to this much trouble, then tear it all the way down, clean the parts and install a rebuild kit. Generally, they run around $150.
Until then, if you insist on driving it, as mentioned, check the clutch adjustment and when going into 4th, shift it SLOOOOOOOOOOOWLY into 4th gear.

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Tom Parsons



[This message has been edited by DZAUTO (edited 09-03-2002).]

Thanks Tom and Wally.
You will probably start seeing a lot of questions posted by me in a couple of months.
I probably wouldn't even try to do the rebuild myself if I didn't know I could get help from you experts when I run into a bind.
I will shift very S L O O O O W L Y until I get started on the rebuild.
What are the chances I could do significant damage by continuing to drive it? I just don't want to do it now if I can get by. Just got it all back together a couple of months ago after dropping in a new engine, and would like to enjoy what remaining "cruising" weather we have left before the snow flies.

When the grinding occurs, that's when wear occurs. Since you have not had one apart, I won't get seriously technical. In short, that part which engages with the 4th gear is splined and those splines engage with a row of small teeth on the gear. The brass ring I mentioned, "equalizes" (synchronizes) the speed between the 2 parts so that they mesh without grinding. The brass ring (and who knows, there could be some other parts also worn) is likely so worn that it will no longer synchronize 4th gear. So, by gently and slowly shifting from 3rd to 4th, you should greatly reduce the grinding. If enough grinding occurs over a long enough period of time, then you get to spend more money and buy more parts. That's the long and short of it.
And last, once it is in gear (ANY GEAR), does it EVER jump out of gear? If not fine. But if it EVER has jumped out of gear, even just once, then spend the additional bucks for a pair of Tork Loc sliders when you get the rebuild kit (total will be in the neighborhood of $230).

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Tom Parsons