Just got my car situated, and have been taking a few test drives..ran into problems today, hope someone here can offer some advice.

Car had a 350/TH350 in it. It now has a 396, with a new (Autogear) M22W trans. The bellhousing is a Lakewood with blockplate. Adjustable fork ball and GM fork are being used. Clutch is 11" Ram. Shifter is Hurst Comp +. Keep in mind all of these components are new and none of them was ever installed in this car before.

Today was really the first day I got to drive the car at length, and give it a good run through the gears. I wasnt beating on it, just giving it a nice hard run through the gears (say 10-20 times AND IT WAS GREAT WHILE IT LASTED!!)..I had the following problems:

1) Intermittant hi pitched whine (sounds like a belt)..noticeably at idle with car in neutral. I noticed today that this noise goes away when I push the clutch pedal down.

2) I am confident that the shifter is installed and adjusted correctly. I also installed steel bushings in place of the plastic ones. When the car is cold and shut off, I can pull the shifter through each gear, and get reverse no problem..it feels good-like it should.

3) With car warmed up, trans shifts fine..ran through the gears up and down and all was well. After running the car through the gears, cruising around, etc. for about 15minutes..I noticed that it got harder to get 1st and reverse..and it was hard to shift from reverse into 1st when I backed out of a driveway.

4) I brought it home and shut it off for a couple minutes. Then got back in and drove down the street. Again, it was even harder to get 1st after backing out of drive. THEN I could not get any gear except third (and that was tough). Had to limp home and park it.

5) After a 3 hour cooling off period, I was able to pull the stick through all gears with the car off..feels good again.

I am thinking that maybe I did not set the adjustable fork ball correctly (I really dont remember checking a distance other than making sure the throwout bearing came off the fingers).

Maybe fork ball moved (i had it locktited)? What throwout bearing should I have? I ordered it from Summit along with the bellhousing. I really wanted to avoid dropping the trans to check this all out.

I dont think I have a whole lot of adjusting rod left. The only other thing that may be worth mentioning is that the clutch fork return spring I am using is a generic (really long) spring..that I have attached through my headers to a spot on the frame..seemed to work well, but wondering if header heat may be screwing with the spring (spring may be touching header a bit).

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

John

With car warmed up, trans shifts fine..ran through the gears up and down and all was well. After running the car through the gears, cruising around, etc. for about 15minutes..I noticed that it got harder to get 1st and reverse..and it was hard to shift from reverse into 1st when I backed out of a driveway.

I brought it home and shut it off for a couple minutes. Then got back in and drove down the street. Again, it was even harder to get 1st after backing out of drive. THEN I could not get any gear except third (and that was tough). Had to limp home and park it.

5) After a 3 hour cooling off period, I was able to pull the stick through all gears with the car off..feels good again So when the car is turned off it shifts fine, but when running it is difficult? Doesn't sound like you set it wrong, but rather it loosened up... Sounds like maybe the clutch linkage is going out of adjustment... Either the pivot ball or the lingage to the fork... If the clutch is not adjusted correctly, it will be very hard to shift when running. Try readjusting those...

Another possibility is the bellhousing alignment and pilot bushing/bearing... Did you align the Lakewood bellhousing as per the instructions (with a dial indicator and offset dowels, as necessary)?

If the bellhousing is not aligned correctly (I think like 0.005" tolerance), it can cause the input shaft to bind in the pilot bushing/bearing... This has a similar effect to the mis-adjusted clutch linkage...

Essentially, despite what the clutch is doing, the input shaft is still spinning at the engine speed amking it hard to shift...

That "whining" you heard might also have been the pilot bushing/bearing...

Did you use the bronze pilot bushing or theroller bearing?

It shifted great for a while while I was driving it, on a few different occasions. Yesterday was the first day I was really able to drive it a little harder, and I was able to run it through the gears more.

It was great at first, but then it just seemed that the clutch went away and I could not get a gear.

I did dial indicate the lakewood in using their offset dowel pins with good results. It was within the tolerance that they were looking for.

The pilot bearing was new (bronze) when the trans was installed. There is a little bit of adjustment left in the clutch I think, but it seems strange that with all new parts that I would have to use up that much of the adjustment range right off the bat.

I don't remember checking the distance between the back of the block and the adjustable fork ball..based on some searching it looks like that should be 4.750"(?). I think I just adjusted it so that I could get the throwout bearing off the diaphragm of the clutch.

I think the rubber boot from lakewood was not working too well with the stock GM clutch fork I am using..I think I am going to ditch the boot for now until I get this figured out. The boot convolutions seemed to get all bunched up, and tended to try and keep the fork from returning all the way when I let off the clutch pedal.

But you car still shifts okay when turned off, correct? Its just when its running, right?

The "misadjusted" pivot ball (or the possibility of), shouldn't have the effect that you mentioned (as long as the adjustment hasn't changed since you set it), but that might be why the other linkage adjustment was so much...

I would definitely readjust the clutch linkage... If the linkage isn't long enough, I have heard of people using a long grade8bolt (cut off head) in place of the threaded rod...

The boot might be keeping the pedal from returning all the way, but that shouldn't affect the clutch action (perhaps that could have caused some of the whining)...

I had similar problems on my set up... Fresh alignment on the bell, everything set to spec, etc... The car got tougher to shift... Found it was the pivot ball... I had to periodically adjust the pedal linkage about every hour (I was at a weekend car show about 120 miles from home)...

Yes, if I go out to the car right now, dead cold..I can move the stick through the gears, with no problem really.

When I had the problem the other day, I did not try to shift it through the gears when it was hot (with the engine off)..so not sure what would have happened.

Your problem and mine sound very similar. It starts out ok (long enough to drive happily away from home!), then rears its ugly head when you think you are home free!!

I should know more in the next day or so. I will report back findings.

Ok, dug in a bit further on this tonite..here's what I found so far:

1) lock nut on clutch adjustment rod was loose..it had backed off a couple turns. Not sure if the rod moved from where I had it set, but its possible. I also remembered that I had put the locknut on the wrong side (toward the fork) initially, as I was trying to get the clutch to engage when all was installed. This is telling me that I probably do need to move that adjustable ball into its correct location..its probably not extended far enough.

2) My shifter was a little bit loose! I could rock the body of the shifter a bit..bolts were snug, but not tight..that had to have some effect on being able to grab a gear. That SOB is getting some locktite when it goes back together.

I drained the oil and I am dropping the tranny tomorrow night, so I can continue.

Careful which loctite you use! You may be better off safety wiring the bolts once tight. loctite-aluminum-steel ......aaaarrrrrggg!

Ok, good thought! Anyone know what these bolts should be torqued to? Maybe I just didnt tighten them enough?? I am always paranoid about pulling threads.

Update..dropped trans last nite. Adjustable pivot ball was loose, but not sure if it had moved from where it was set. Also determined that the length of the pivot ball was too short ( I had it set about the same length as a stock GM fork ball). Checking dimensions off the back of the block, it looks like my pivot ball was at least .250" too short. There also seems to be an issue with the fork hitting the lakewood bellhousing with the new setting (ie: when the throwout bearing should be coming off the fingers)..Seems that the throwout bearing that came in the clutch kit is not correct. RAM clutch tech support said to try a longer T.O. bearing. My 'quick' remedy was to grind some material out of the bellhousing to eliminate the intereference with the clutch fork.

Total P.I.A but I think its going to be alot better when I put it back together. Most of this is my own fault for not doing more homework before bolting this all up the first time!

Friend of mine found the same problem with the pivot ball in his vette. Seems the PO put the wrong one in. Clutch works fine now with the right one in.

I started this thread a while back..never really got to the bottom of the problem, although I thought I did. After my last post, I drove the car to the bodyshop(january). It is now painted, etc..and today I drove it again for the first time since I dropped it off..just a short trip to get the top put on it.

Over the weekend, I pulled the stick through the gears with the car off and cold. No apparent problems.

Today, I warmed it up..then gently drove it to the upholstery shop. After about 5-10 minutes of normal am driving in traffic..it got harder and harder to go into first gear when I came to a stop. I had to resort to 2nd gear, and 3rd gear in one instance to get moving. Upon arrival, I tried for reverse and got a nice clunk.

What am I missing here? I really need to get to the bottom of the problem this time, this is making me nuts.

Clutch and trans were/are new..they have less than 100 miles on them..probably not even 50! clutch fork is a GM. clutch is a hayes. I am 99.9% certain my shift rods are adjusted properly, and I already went through the setting of the pivot ball in the correct location (as far as I know).

Could my throwout bearing be incorrect? Seems strange why the car shifts fine until everything heats up, then it goes away.

I've got a '69 396 with the lakewood setup inc. their fork. if it only does this after it gets hot, then something is expanding with the heat and siezing up. This is most likely the clutch shaft-to-pilot bushing. Mine does the same thing, but only in really hot weather or after a long drive. Never had a problem until I put the Lakewood in, so I know it is in the alignment. You might want to check it again to be sure, and that it hasn't moved. Also, make sure you have some lube on the pilot bearing/bushing. I really don't think the fork ball is the place to look. If the clutch releases cold, it will release hot. That pilot bushing just likes to get tight with heat.

The expansion theory as mentioned above is on the money. The dead give away is that when its cold, its OK.

Maybe try some extra slack in the linkage to compensate for the expansion before doing anything drastic. Sounds like clutch isn't fully releasing when hot. I think its either the clutch itself or the flywheel thats swelling up. What else gets that hot thats moving (unless the trans itself has internal issues)?

Vince